The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[FLSkinz83]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Fields doesn't pan out, and granted that still remains to be seen, it makes me wonder a little.  I guess Burrow came from there but he didn't excel until he left. 

 

I am not sure what to make of Stroud but everything being equal I like Qbs with mobility -- he's not a statue but i definitely wouldn't call him mobile either. 

 

I can't think of one good NFL OSU QB...ever.   Plus I don't think their current offense is pro style.   

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I can't think of one good NFL OSU QB...ever.   Plus I don't think their current offense is pro style.   

 

Their offense isn't pro, that's true.  It's not been a good run for Ohio State guys.  

 

Some of Jeremiah's take

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/scouting-c-j-stroud-ohio-state-prospect-could-be-on-trajectory-similar-to-mac-jo

 

Biggest takeaway: Ohio State quarterback prospects are very difficult to evaluate. The offensive scheme is effective, the line play is solid and the wideouts are spectacular. Those circumstances don't provide a ton of tight-window opportunities for the passer. I know the NFL track record of Buckeye quarterbacks hasn't been stellar, but I believe you need to evaluate every player on an individual basis. I do think Stroud has a strong skill set and I've been told his intangibles are outstanding. He loves football and has a very sharp mind for the game.

He reminds me of: I see a lot of similarities to Mac Jones. Both guys see the field well, make good decisions and take what the defense gives them. They protect the football and understand how to manage the game. Neither player has outstanding arm strength or athleticism but both have excellent touch on the deep ball. Jones surprised a lot of evaluators with his success as a rookie and I could see a similar outcome in Stroud's future.

[Hooper]

3 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

The problem is,  he literally threw the interception that ended the game with the pick.   He didn't get it done when it really mattered, and that's all people will see.   

 

He didn't get it done because the calls were subpar at best, and our idiot coach blew a time out on a stupid challenge, meaning we couldn't even think of running the ball.

 

Wentz is fine. Not great, not terrible. Fine. I'm certainly glad we were rebuffed by Wilson. 

[goskins10]

15 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Wentz at a massively reduced price is good enough for this team to look at as a fall-back option. It does not mean you don't search for and evaluate other pathways, but if your moving into the offseason, and you don' have the high draft pick that guarantees you a QB, you at least have a "tenable" direction to go. You don't move on from discount Wentz until you have secured a better veteran option, or make him a bridge for a young guy.

 

Wentz at 26 Mil is a day one of the league year insta-cut.

 

This is the worst possible outcome. If he is not good enough to earn the current contract why bring him back at all. Just cut bait. I would rather punt all the QBs and start over before doing something like this. Just start all over. Do you really want a demoted QB with clear fatal flaws even if he does have some nice moments, getting paid a lot less so he is pissed about that? So far I have not seen the - my back is up against the wall I will come out fighting mentality. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by goskins10

[method man]

To the point of the experts like Pauline, I can't see why Stroud would be ranked higher than Levis. Worse tools, struggles with intermediate routes and comes from a program that has churned out NFL bust after NFL bust at the position.

 

 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

This is the worst possible outcome. If he is not good enough to ern the currente contract why bring him back at all. Just cut bait. I would rather punt all the QBs and start over before doing something like this. Just start all over. Do you really want a demoted QB with clear fatal flaws even if he does have some nice moments, getting paid a lot less so he is pissed about that? So far I hav not seen the - my back is up agaisnt thew wall I will come out fightingh mentality. 

 

It probably is the worst possible outcome, but that is why its only a fall back option. It secures a floor and makes sure you don't make the same mistake we made this year. No 20+ Mil QB you don't believe in. It also does not stop you from making other moves and bringing in other QBs. This is just the establishment of Plan E, in case A, B, C and D fall thru.

 

In terms of Vets, good luck trying to secure a good vet QB after our roster has shown itself to be bottom of the league. Who of quality is willingly donating their body to play here with what we have seen so far? Just the guys w/ no other options. You won't get anyone good enough to justify clean cutting a cheap Wentz. You'll have the pair fight it out in camp instead.

 

That leaves your primary option as the draft and you can only move on confidently if you have a pick that absolutely guarantees a guy you believe in. If you evaluate the crop, and your cool w/ 2 of the 3 QBs but you hold pick No 3, you can't move on until you know you have your guy since its not guaranteed either will be there.

 

 

If we are sitting on pick 1 or 2 that would certainly be ideal at this point and would alter the calculus, but if we have 6, 7 or 8... As long as the relationship w/ Wentz aint broken and he'd willingly take the paycut your not doing much better. If the relationship is broken, or he wont take the paycut, dump 'em since you can get some 5 Mil retread that will be better for the health of the team than Wentz at 26.

 

I don't like it, but at least you would be starting off next year in better shape than we did this one.

[skinny21]

26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is the worst possible outcome. If he is not good enough to ern the currente contract why bring him back at all. Just cut bait. I would rather punt all the QBs and start over before doing something like this. Just start all over. Do you really want a demoted QB with clear fatal flaws even if he does have some nice moments, getting paid a lot less so he is pissed about that? So far I hav not seen the - my back is up agaisnt thew wall I will come out fightingh mentality. 

 

 

I can see your point, and I would prefer to start all over (with a rookie or Howell, not a vet) but I can also think of worse outcomes.  Also, would Wentz truly be pissed if the alternative is to either not work or go to another team for less money?  You could be right, I don’t know.  I just know that if he is going to stick around, we need to free up some of that money to improve the team around him (specifically oline, but on D as well).

[goskins10]

@FootballZombie and @skinny21 I hear what you are saying but for me there is zero scenario that brings Wentz back. We do not need a veteran here necesarily. Even if we have a rookie and Howell. The third QB is inactive on game day anyway.

 

There is nothing good from him remaining on the team, or being brought back after getting benched. That is the main redeeming value in the trade for him. The last 2 contracts can be voided and him released with no additional cost to the team. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

I felt something break in me, as a fan, while watching that Seattle playoff game that I’ll never get back. Just a pit in my stomach as I watched the future die in front of my eyes. I knew it was over, and that magic would never return. Every team-related emotion I have felt since that moment (which over the last decade has transitioned into an empty apathy much of the time) has been tainted by an undercurrent of “what’s the point?”

 

 

I sat in silence on my couch with my head in my hands for probably close to half an hour, like someone died.

 

 

[Riggodrill44]

5 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

At least he is doing something on the sidelines at gametime. Beats just standing there.

 

 

 

Wentz is far from the worst QB in the league, but he is a below average starting one. You combine that with his monster contract cap hit and you got a guy who is unable to play himself out of the hole his presence creates. Its still early, but it is seriously looking like our inability to put a roster around him that is as good as last season's is more than offsetting an actual improvement at the QB position. As a team we look to be worse overall than last year, and probably significantly so.

 

I think the detriment to roster construction brought primarily by Wentz' contract is doing more harm to the team then Wentz play. Carson probably had his best game of the season vs Tenn and it still didn't matter in the W/L column. It is not a consistent feasible existence for winning football. The only way you can hope to do anything of note w/ this dude at QB is if his roster impact is an absolute fraction of what it currently is so he does not have to compensate for an absolutely nuked roster.

How many teams are paying their starting QB more than Wentz and have a better roster?

 

Seems to me just another excuse from Ron on his below level roster.

He shouldn’t be our GM, he shouldn’t be the coach either.

[Conn]

18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I sat in silence on my couch with my head in my hands for probably close to half an hour, like someone died.

 

 

Same. Due to various divorces in the family we were doing late Christmas with one branch of the family tree that day. After doing presents everyone decided to watch the game. Which was bizarre because I had never really watched a game with anyone in my family outside my direct family who cursed me with Washington fandom, and they were all Patriots fans, so it was already not a friendly environment for the game. Nobody could understand what the big deal was when I was just…shell-shocked for the rest of the game and afternoon. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Conn

[Riggodrill44]

4 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

The problem is,  he literally threw the interception that ended the game with the pick.   He didn't get it done when it really mattered, and that's all people will see.   

Watched that play 10-15 times. The defense played it extremely well. Terry letting his man bump him off his route and  never being a threat to catch the ball contribute to the tight window.

Still the play lacked depth and any deception, it was a blah play with the game on the line.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

29 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I sat in silence on my couch with my head in my hands for probably close to half an hour, like someone died.

 

 

I pretty much did that two days ago. I desperately wanted us to win that game and the Bears game. Get to 3 - 3. Of course it wasn't meant to be 😢

[NoCalMike]

When I watch the replay of that play, I don't see how anyone can say Wentz made a bad/wrong decision.  He went where the ball was designed to go and he threw it crazy fast in order to ensure it beat any defenders.  The reason it turned out the way it did is because When Terry took the contact on his route, it didn't disrupt the defender enough and he recovered in time to make a play on the ball, but that was out of Wentz's control.   There's also the fact that dude was clearly hit in the back before the ball was delivered which maybe have ended up disrupting the play, but not ended the game.  It was just a great play by a defender who wasn't even covering the target initially. 

[ThomasRoane]

9 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

They can blame Wentz all they want but the failure to properly field a competent O-line is a much bigger issue.  Im no huge Wentz guy but he really isn't playing bad, its just hard to step into throws when your Oline is letting free rushers crush you up the middle and cant stop a 2 man rush with 5 Olineman.  Wentz has no faith in the Oline and he shouldn't.  I think that putting Howell in is a terrible idea at least until they get a little protection.  

 

While the season seemed to be salvageable I thought that maybe TH could steal some games and with better skills players and his mobility could make a playoff push.  Then Washington lost to a Titan's team that has more injuries than the Commanders.  Especially on the defensive side of the ball.  Dallas dominated the Rams.  Philly beat the Cards.  The Giants won.  I believe the Giants will fall back to earth but, as much as I hate to admit it, Dallas and Philly are legit.  There's no way Washington is catching either of those teams. 

 

This year's Washington team doesn't have what's needed to sniff the playoffs.  The DLine is pretty good vs the run but the back end isn't good enough to support them vs the pass.  Not consistently.  The skills players on offense are very good but getting them the ball seems to be a challenge.  The O-Line is not good.  We don't really know how bad they are though.  Only the coaches know for sure how much of the blame goes to QB and how much to the Oline.  Or TE's as well.  I know Cooley isn't high on Thomas' blocking.  

 

Carson doesn't seem to be getting thru his progressions and that's not just an issue for Washington.  His success came from being big enough to break tackles and he can throw a good long ball.  At this point, how much worse can Howell be?  If Howell turns out to be a keeper then you can build the team around him on his rookie deal.  You can throw some of the $25 million towards the Oline, cut WJ3, and get either a DB or a Free Safety.  Maybe even keep Payne; who is really balling out this year.  If Howell isn't the guy, then you have to sell out to get a top draft pick and take a good swing at getting your franchise QB that way.  

 

Looking at the schedule, I don't wanna watch Wentz lead Washington to a 7 and 10 record and see the team drafting below pick 5.  Today, the winnable games look like (Chicago, Colts, Texans, Falcons, Giants [split], and the Browns).  Realistically, I think Indy and the Browns would give them trouble as well.  I can't imagine that Washington would be favored in either of those games.  

41 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

How many teams are paying their starting QB more than Wentz and have a better roster?

 

Seems to me just another excuse from Ron on his below level roster.

He shouldn’t be our GM, he shouldn’t be the coach either.

 

Not gonna argue with you.  However, I worry about who else would be willing to come work for Snyder?  That's a factor to be considered.  

[tmandoug1]

Unless we get some studs on OLine it doesn't matter who is QB. Same story every year for 30 years. I agree with an earlier post.......should have dropped from the generational #2 pick and picked the next best QB. Hind sight is 20/20. I would rather have 4 first round Oline than 4 first round Dline. JMHO.

[ThomasRoane]

55 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

When I watch the replay of that play, I don't see how anyone can say Wentz made a bad/wrong decision.  He went where the ball was designed to go and he threw it crazy fast in order to ensure it beat any defenders.  The reason it turned out the way it did is because When Terry took the contact on his route, it didn't disrupt the defender enough and he recovered in time to make a play on the ball, but that was out of Wentz's control.   There's also the fact that dude was clearly hit in the back before the ball was delivered which maybe have ended up disrupting the play, but not ended the game.  It was just a great play by a defender who wasn't even covering the target initially. 

 

What I don't get is why McLaurin isn't by himself running an option route?  If the Defense puts two over him then you're in business elsewhere.  I'd have given Wentz the green light to run it in.  Especially since the Titans had dropped 8 on the previous play.  

 

Still, Wentz did stare down McKissic pretty hard.  It wasn't really a great play by the LB.  He was just keying eyes.  

[bh32]

Until they fix the interior OL nothing will change..The Center can't even snap the ball in shotgun properly..Then the Guards get ran over within two seconds.

[Conn]

I can’t even imagine the way certain posters would be falling all over themselves making excuses for Heinicke if he couldn’t even get a proper snap delivered into his hands

[FLSkinz83]

I'd rather develop Howell than draft a QB this year...especially if Ron is still here.

[Riggodrill44]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

 

Not gonna argue with you.  However, I worry about who else would be willing to come work for Snyder?  That's a factor to be considered.  

This is always going to be a problem with Snyder. I’m thinking a young assistant, that is a superior coordinator . 

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'd rather develop Howell than draft a QB this year...especially if Ron is still here.

He’s a short 5th round QB. He could have all the potential in the world and it would still be insane not to use a high 1st (if we end up with one) on a good QB prospect if one is there. 

[skins island connection]

 

 This season is old toast, nothing short of a total collapse of the division would give them a snowball's chance.

The issue is this; even IF they get a top QB in the draft, there's no one on the entire coaching staff who is an actual 'teacher' or groomer for said QB, so why bother?

Turner can't even make in-game adjustments, and even when they get into a groove the team is down by 2+ TDs and the defense is just playing to not get hurt. Rivera certainly isn't any type of offensive-minded coach, so the drafted QB will end up mentally scarred for life.

[Skintime]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

He’s a short 5th round QB. He could have all the potential in the world and it would still be insane not to use a high 1st (if we end up with one) on a good QB prospect if one is there. 

If he'd come out a year earlier he was the top pick.

[FLSkinz83]

18 minutes ago, Conn said:

He’s a short 5th round QB. He could have all the potential in the world and it would still be insane not to use a high 1st (if we end up with one) on a good QB prospect if one is there. 

 

The only QB I like in the 1st round is Bryce Young and he's short as well.    Howell was a 1st round prospect in 2021.  He showed me a lot in preseason.