The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Redwards]

6 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Keim was on Sheehan's show this morning and said that the coaching staff has come to terms with the flaws Wentz has, that they can't coach out of him.  "Decision making" was mentioned.  Not trying to play hero ball.  

This is what you get when you get rebuffed by Wilson and then, admittedly, at the last minute you pour over - "cram" was the word Ron used - videotape of Carson...and in your absolute self-induced panic, convince yourself that the's the answer.  "Answer"as in Super Bowl winning level QB.  

 

This is why, when they traded for Carson, I was 100% out on Ron in that exact moment.  Now, Ron's admitted that he's gonna build around Carson (HUGE mistake), so that means we're not taking a QB in next year's prospect-rich draft.  We're gonna pass, watch the QB parade go by, come to terms in a few years that Carson indeed isn't the answer, but will be just mediocre enough where we'll have to mortgage the farm to move up to take the prospect we should have years earlier.

 

In the meantime, the 'Boys, Eagles or Giants (or maybe, just maybe two of those three) will have at least appeared in a SB.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Catching up to Logan Paulsen's take of things.  Based on an interview he gave and a podcast.  The takeways are.

 

A.  The Titans defense was the perfect offense for this team to exploit for among other reasons they play the same scheme as Del Rio so this offense should have had an easy time recognizing what they saw.

 

B.  The Bears are beatable and Justin Fields is legtimately really bad, doesn't process the game-reads, etc fast enough among other things.  I haven't watched Fields this season but its not hard for me to miss he's becoming a Darnold level punch line with the national media.  I haevn't watched to make up my own mind on it yet though. 

 

I know @Zim489 thought Ron's biggest fatal mistake was not trading the moon for Fields, no price would have been too big according to him.  But lol, imagine if they traded for him and he ends up like Darnold which supposedly he's on pace for right now?  From what I gathered the teams in the top 10 wanted like an RG3 type of haul for him.

 

I liked Fields but not in the there is no price too big for him type of way.  But not to bag on @Zim489 we all get some wrong.  I'd have traded the moon for Russell Wilson and that's looking awful right now.

 

My point is for how bad things are at least we have the picks to get a Qb in this draft.  I don't quote know yet who I want but leaning towards Bryce Young. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Playaction2Sanders]

Wentz is on pace to break the team record for TD's in a season even without the 17 game schedule, and fall less than 200 yards shy of Cousins record breaking 4917 yards season back in '16. I don't think he's as much of a problem as people make out..

 

The defense has 1 turnover heading into week 6, worst in the league, and it came on almost a hail mary at the end of the Jax game, and our Oline is abysmal. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Playaction2Sanders

[Redwards]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Ron Rivera at the end of 2021 season, "everything we need is in this locker room"  *proceeds to let some of those things walk out of the locker room*

And just the other day, he complains that he doesn't have enough to work with and that we'll start winning once everything is in place.  He's an idiot.  Hell, he just go through with a sermon to the press the year before last saying that they're going to put it all together and when that happens, THEN they'll get their QB.  Well...all offseason he lauded all the weapons we have and then traded for his QB.  Now the guy is complaining that we don't have enough around him.

 

Ron, you cannot have it both ways, dude.  You are washed up, excuse making, throwing players under the bus POS head coach and roster constructor.  I have zero respect for that dude on a professional level.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wow Skip called it we did end up winning 7 straight.

 

Man 2012 was fun. That's what its like having a legit QB. You're basically a contender every year. Its what Chiefs, Bills, Packers fans etc. feel EVERY season. So jealous.

I felt something break in me, as a fan, while watching that Seattle playoff game that I’ll never get back. Just a pit in my stomach as I watched the future die in front of my eyes. I knew it was over, and that magic would never return. Every team-related emotion I have felt since that moment (which over the last decade has transitioned into an empty apathy much of the time) has been tainted by an undercurrent of “what’s the point?”

 

 

[srtman04]

16 minutes ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

Wentz is on pace to break the team record for TD's in a season even without the 17 game schedule, and fall less than 200 yards shy of Cousins record breaking 4917 yards season back in '16. I don't think he's as much of a problem as people make out..

 

The defense has 1 turnover heading into week 6, worst in the league, and it came on almost a hail mary at the end of the Jax game, and our Oline is abysmal. 

 

The problem is,  he literally threw the interception that ended the game with the pick.   He didn't get it done when it really mattered, and that's all people will see.   

[LadySkinsFan]

We need an offensive coach because the defensive coaches don't have a clue about QBs or anything offense really. I wasn't happy when Rivera was named coach and GM because he doesn't know about it and lets it up to inexperienced junior guys. I mean, horrible O line because of changes he made and good ones leaving. It starts there.

[Redwards]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Catching up to Logan Paulsen's take of things.  Based on an interview he gave and a podcast.  The takeways are.

 

A.  The Titans defense was the perfect offense for this team to exploit for among other reasons they play the same scheme as Del Rio so this offense should have had an easy time recognizing what they saw.

 

B.  The Bears are beatable and Justin Fields is legtimately really bad, doesn't process the game-reads, etc fast enough among other things.  I haven't watched Fields this season but its not hard for me to miss he's becoming a Darnold level punch line with the national media.  I haevn't watched to make up my own mind on it yet though. 

 

I know @Zim489 thought Ron's biggest fatal mistake was not trading the moon for Fields, no price would have been too big according to him.  But lol, imagine if they traded for him and he ends up like Darnold which supposedly he's on pace for right now?  From what I gathered the teams in the top 10 wanted like an RG3 type of haul for him.

 

I liked Fields but not in the there is no price too big for him type of way.  But not to bag on @Zim489 we all get some wrong.  I'd have traded the moon for Russell Wilson and that's looking awful right now.

 

My point is for how bad things are at least we have the picks to get a Qb in this draft.  I don't quote know yet who I want but leaning towards Bryce Young. 

Do we though?

 

G men have all the picks they need to move up and take a stud QB prospect if they choose.  Eagles have 2 firsts.  

 

We will have a 1st and a 3rd.  I don't believe for a second that Ron is going to sit Carson so we can preserve the 2nd.  And I think Carson stays vertical long enough to achieve that milestone.  I also don't believe we're taking a QB in the 1st.  Not after Ron declared that we're building around Carson.   Even if he changed his mind, I don't see us with a lot of ammo going into this draft.  We'd have to trade a crapload to get our QB.  I don't think we'll be picking high enough to get one on our own accord.  Ron'll get us winning enough meaningless games to ensure that.  

[LadySkinsFan]

5 minutes ago, Redwards said:

Do we though?

 

G men have all the picks they need to move up and take a stud QB prospect if they choose.  Eagles have 2 firsts.  

 

We will have a 1st and a 3rd.  I don't believe for a second that Ron is going to sit Carson so we can preserve the 2nd.  And I think Carson stays vertical long enough to achieve that milestone.  I also don't believe we're taking a QB in the 1st.  Not after Ron declared that we're building around Carson.   Even if he changed his mind, I don't see us with a lot of ammo going into this draft.  We'd have to trade a crapload to get our QB.  I don't think we'll be picking high enough to get one on our own accord.  Ron'll get us winning enough meaningless games to ensure that.  

 

Ron needs to go now and Wentz needs to be benched. We have two other QBs.

[Conn]

Edit: wrong thread

Edited October 11, 2022 by Conn

[Disco Mike]

20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You don't throw players under the bus publicly. Period. 

 

Ron should be fired.

Ron Rivera IS THE PROBLEM!  Tell me ONE THING this guy has gotten right since coming here?  He has tunnel vision when it comes to finding players...if he gets one more damn Panther, I'm going to SCREAM!!   HE built this roster...HE drafted these players.  Not Wentz, not you, not me...HIM!  To top it all off, he sucks as a coach.  He challenges plays he has no business challenging, and he fails to challenge plays he should challenge.  He has piss-poor clock management skills and has horrible game awareness.  Going for 2 when down by 8?!?!?!  Who does that?!?!?!

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Redwards said:

Do we though?

 

G men have all the picks they need to move up and take a stud QB prospect if they choose.  Eagles have 2 firsts.  

 

We will have a 1st and a 3rd.  I don't believe for a second that Ron is going to sit Carson so we can preserve the 2nd.  And I think Carson stays vertical long enough to achieve that milestone.  I also don't believe we're taking a QB in the 1st.  Not after Ron declared that we're building around Carson.   Even if he changed his mind, I don't see us with a lot of ammo going into this draft.  We'd have to trade a crapload to get our QB.  I don't think we'll be picking high enough to get one on our own accord.  Ron'll get us winning enough meaningless games to ensure that.  

 

I know we are used to the idea of having to TRADE UP for a QB but if this season keeps going the way its going, I don't expect us having to package picks to get a QB. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redwards]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know we are used to the idea of having to TRADE UP for a QB but if this season keeps going the way its going, I don't expect us having to package picks to get a QB. 

Ron does have a talent to keep finishing with 7 wins or so.  That's what worries me.  I see enough winnable games left.  But we need to really, really tank this year.  

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I know @Zim489 thought Ron's biggest fatal mistake was not trading the moon for Fields, no price would have been too big according to him

You love putting words in my mouth. I said it was never going to be the moon you seemed to think it was. 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Would you want him back if he took a major pay cut? No one giving him 26 million next year would you take him back at 9 million if roster was improved? I think this team is closer to rebuild then contender.

 

Wentz at a massively reduced price is good enough for this team to look at as a fall-back option. It does not mean you don't search for and evaluate other pathways, but if your moving into the offseason, and you don' have the high draft pick that guarantees you a QB, you at least have a "tenable" direction to go. You don't move on from discount Wentz until you have secured a better veteran option, or make him a bridge for a young guy.

 

Wentz at 26 Mil is a day one of the league year insta-cut.

[The Consigliere]

I would have loved trading for Fields. Still love him as a prospect, though it looks awful now. Pretending there isn't something to falling into a ---- heap of a team with no OC, no HC, no weapons, and a middling or worse OL? I don't know, does Trevor Lawrence suck, or did his coach, organization, and the talent around him suck? I tend to think the latter, and it's equally true w/Fields. He's been completely sabotaged by a dog ---- organization. Jacksonville may yet save Lawrence, but I see no chance for Fields in Chicago. No WR's to speak of, no RB's w/dynamic skills, OL is whatever, coaches are unproven at best.

 

You can pretend it's Fields fault, or Lawrences fault etc, but if you saddle young QB's w/horse manure in terms of talent, and inept coaches, when they're play is uninspiring, we shouldn't act like it's a surprise, or entirely an indictment of them.

 

We'll see going forward, if Fields can turn it around, but I don't think it happens in Chicago. They have nothing and nearly half his rookie deal is already over. They can't rebuild the entire offense around him in two offseasons. He's screwed. As crazy as it is to say, we actually might have made Fields into a good QB. Legit pass catchers, reasonable rb options, OL that's borderline competent at times. There's hope here in terms of surrounding talent. In chicago, its a giant pile of horse manure everywhere. 

[wit33]

22 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I

 

Once the team is out of contention and/or  Behind this O-line Howell is going to be rushing throws, running for his life, and forced into bad decisions that might not normally happen for someone behind a better O-line and with more experience.  I wouldn't hold against Howell of course, but it still has an effect on the morale of the team. 

If your QB doesn’t show promise in described events above, I want no part. The idea QBs get ruined is largely false. 

 

21 hours ago, Indi1988 said:

Smith has a bone to pick. Dude was actually mad the regime didn’t want to move forward with him after he basically had 1 leg and couldn’t move at all. It was over and he wasn’t accepting it then and still seems mad.

Nah, I think he wanted and felt he deserved to start the playoff game. His mission was to comeback and be done it appeared. 

 

20 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

It gave me the impression that Ron is gong to stick with Wentz for rest of the season and then build around him next year. He does have him for the two following years on a QB friendly deal. 

QB friendly??

 

Play hardball with the dude this off season and force him to play at half the cost, he’s not finding that anywhere. 
 

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It could be that.  My impression is that I now don't have an overriding impression about what Rivera thinks, his comments could be taken in multiple ways.

 

At a minimum its open to me that if Rivera isn't happy with how Wentz plays in future games, its in play that he's not back.

 

People complain about the coach centric mode.  I get some of the complaints but some don't make sense to me ala that Ron imposed his own draconian budget on himself -- if so that completely flies against the face of a coach centric model.

 

But one thing that to me does play into the downside of a coach centric model, is Ron would be motivated to save face on personnel decisions since he has final say. If it were a GM he can imply that the GM screwed up if it goes awry.  But in this case he's the GM, so my point is he might double down on Wentz and live and die by that sword becuase as a GM-coach he's much more vested in the player than the typical coach would be. 

Admittedly I’ve become lost with the cap discussion on this board. By the numbers it seems like Washington is on par with the rest of the league and right around top 10 in salary. 
 

Truly curious what I’m missing. 

 

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Wentz at a massively reduced price is good enough for this team to look at as a fall-back option. It does not mean you don't search for and evaluate other pathways, but if your moving into the offseason, and you don' have the high draft pick that guarantees you a QB, you at least have a "tenable" direction to go. You don't move on from discount Wentz until you have secured a better veteran option, or make him a bridge for a young guy.

 

Wentz at 26 Mil is a day one of the league year insta-cut.

Im with this plan 100%. Tell the dude you can comeback next season at 10mil. This idea you must pay these QBs is lost on me. 

[Redskins 2021]

29 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Wentz at a massively reduced price is good enough for this team to look at as a fall-back option. It does not mean you don't search for and evaluate other pathways, but if your moving into the offseason, and you don' have the high draft pick that guarantees you a QB, you at least have a "tenable" direction to go. You don't move on from discount Wentz until you have secured a better veteran option, or make him a bridge for a young guy.

 

Wentz at 26 Mil is a day one of the league year insta-cut.

 I think if we want him back at a reduced rate we will get him. I don't think anyone going to want him for more then 10 million. It would be similar to the Jimmy G contract would be my bet. 

[wit33]

32 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 I think if we want him back at a reduced rate we will get him. I don't think anyone going to want him for more then 10 million. It would be similar to the Jimmy G contract would be my bet. 

Exactly. The value of Jimmy G is immense for this season. His experience combined with pay catipults him to top 12 QB for this season. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

51 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Nah, I think he wanted and felt he deserved to start the playoff game. His mission was to comeback and be done it appeared. 

He was hurt. The team would have gladly let him start that game if he could have played. It's not like there was conspiracy against Smith to start a completely unknown Taylor Heinicke at that point. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I would have loved trading for Fields. Still love him as a prospect, though it looks awful now. Pretending there isn't something to falling into a ---- heap of a team with no OC, no HC, no weapons, and a middling or worse OL? I don't know, does Trevor Lawrence suck, or did his coach, organization, and the talent around him suck? I tend to think the latter, and it's equally true w/Fields. He's been completely sabotaged by a dog ---- organization. Jacksonville may yet save Lawrence, but I see no chance for Fields in Chicago. No WR's to speak of, no RB's w/dynamic skills, OL is whatever, coaches are unproven at best.

 

You can pretend it's Fields fault, or Lawrences fault etc, but if you saddle young QB's w/horse manure in terms of talent, and inept coaches, when they're play is uninspiring, we shouldn't act like it's a surprise, or entirely an indictment of them.

 

We'll see going forward, if Fields can turn it around, but I don't think it happens in Chicago. They have nothing and nearly half his rookie deal is already over. They can't rebuild the entire offense around him in two offseasons. He's screwed. As crazy as it is to say, we actually might have made Fields into a good QB. Legit pass catchers, reasonable rb options, OL that's borderline competent at times. There's hope here in terms of surrounding talent. In chicago, its a giant pile of horse manure everywhere. 

 

I liked Fields in college but there were some concerns about his speed-processing on the field.  Logan Paulsen has been pretty good with his takes about different players as far as things bearing out including not being enamored with Wentz based on what he saw in camp.  His take studying Fields is he's not processing quickly and his accuracy isn't hot.

 

Having said that I like to make my own mind about players. No doubt its not easy succeeding with the Bears, maybe its all on the Bears, you got me.  But I haven't loved what I've read about Fields this season albeit one of his better games was last week.

 

There is some thought that Ohio States QBs and the NFL don't go together.  I thought Fields would break that mold.  I still hope he does because I liked him in college, seems like a nice guy.  But if he doesn't it makes me wonder some about Stroud who i haven't studied yet.  Fields has much more mobility than Stroud, too. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsGuy]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

"We're ready to roll," he said".

 

That'll be a change. 🙄

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

You love putting words in my mouth. I said it was never going to be the moon you seemed to think it was. 

 

So you got better intel on what was asked for than Keim?

 

And I've given you that premise before, and I don't recall you rejecting the premise but instead saying yeah you pay it.   

Edited October 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

I'm not interested in any Ohio St. QB...including Stroud.   

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'm not interested in any Ohio St. QB...including Stroud.   

 

If Fields doesn't pan out, and granted that still remains to be seen, it makes me wonder a little.  I guess Burrow came from there but he didn't excel until he left. 

 

I am not sure what to make of Stroud but everything being equal I like Qbs with mobility -- he's not a statue but i definitely wouldn't call him mobile either.