The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Some of you are incredibly incredulous. It’s almost socking the mental leaps you will do to stick to your guns over something that’s like. 60% shot at best. 

It’s wild to me that we legitimately have folks in their basement that think they are better suited as general managers than guys who have ate, slept, and played football since they were embryos.  The delusion is unreal.

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Some of you are incredibly incredulous. It’s almost socking the mental leaps you will do to stick to your guns over something that’s like. 60% shot at best. 

 

More like 10-20% at best at finding an elite QB who can take a team to Super Bowls

[DogofWar1]

JJ is a giant ball of potential so if it's him I'll trust the FO believes they can draw it out of him fully.  He's "kinda" like the Mims of QBs.  Not a huge number of starts and snaps/reps but he looked good when he was in by and large.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

[Ghost of]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is the scouts McGinn's talked to on McCarthy.  it backs at least what Breer-Schefter said recently that McCarthy is seen by the scouts they talk to as QB #4.  The people Schefter-Breer spoke to recently don't buy he overtakes Maye or Daniels.

 

I want the guy people can see is special. And contrary to popular and dumb opinion was a central reason for their success. 

 

It's amazing you took from that passage what you did.  "He may not have the impact of the others at first but can surpass everyone but maybe Caleb Williams." (Paraphrase)

 

BTW, aren't Maye and McCarthy both guys with smaller hands considering their height?

Edited April 19 by Ghost of

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 hours ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Have you spent time with both Maye and Daniels? If so please enlighten me on the leadership skills that stuck out and the drawbacks of both cause I’d be fascinated to know!

 

 

Have you spent time with both Maye and Daniels? 

 

Yes, of course I have!

 

How on earth could I ever give a strong confident opinion on their leadership ability, if I hadn't  been right there with them to observe them at practice, in class at school, in the huddle during games, at parties, in the weight room working out with their teammates (well, that was more Maye than Daniels, but you get my point) and even in their calm moments-- when they went on long walks in the woods, contemplating the meaning of existence and what their true purpose in this life might be?

 

If so please enlighten me on the leadership skills that stuck out and the drawbacks of both cause I’d be fascinated to know!

 

Hmmm, I think a simple metaphor might do it best:

 

Some gather in groups and throw golf balls at the weak and defenseless, knowing they won't do anything about it-- we'll call them the wolves.

 

A few unfortunate fellows  get pelted by golf balls and can do nothing about it-- we'll call them the toothless ones.

 

And then there are the many, those who idly stand on the sidelines and  watch the spectacle taking place in front of them without doing anything about it-- we'll call them the flock.

 

And every now and again there comes into the world a rare breed, a man--- a true man-- tall, strong, virtuous, fearless in battle and merciful in victory, a man of uncommon will and courage, a true hero, a leader who will defang the wolves, protect the toothless, and lead the flock-- we call this man, Big Drake Maye (or Mr Drake, as he humbly prefers).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Put the golf balls DOWN!"

 

 

.

Edited April 19 by CommanderInTheRye

[seantaylor=god]

From Mark Bullock Q and A (he said he likes all of them and could make a case for each but then said the following):

 

“But I know you don't want the political answer so where I'm at after re-watching these guys again recently - Caleb Williams is still in a tier of his own. But next I would have Jayden Daniels, then JJ McCarthy and Drake Maye last. 

Going back and watching these guys again, it reminded me of just how electric Jayden Daniels was and just how often he made incredible plays, both with his arms and his legs. I've also recently seen passing maps with Kyler Murray under Kliff in Arizona, and you can see how Kliff developed Kyler. He was an electric running threat that threw a great deep ball and attacked more outside the numbers rather than the middle of the field, which is similar in style to Jayden right now. In those passing charts you can see in year one for Kyler, they mainly drew things up to play to his strengths, attack down the field and outside the numbers. But in year two and particularly year three, Kliff developed him into being able to attack the middle of the field and intermediate areas far more often before Kyler unfortunately suffered that big injury. So I think Kliff has a track record for developing that type of play-style, which makes Jayden the best fit for him. 

But I can just as easily see them liking McCarthy or Maye more, because those guys play more in the style the Kliff used in 2022, which was attacking over the middle more off play-action. That's what Kliff was working towards with Kyler before he got hurt.”

Edited April 19 by seantaylor=god

[Dah-Dee]

Edit: Adding full text since I thought the scout comment at the end was more interesting than the Quinn reference:

 

Draft analyst @ryanwilsonCBS on why the thinks the Commanders will take Jayden Daniels: "Dan Quinn's a defensive guy and if you're asking Quinn who you don't want to face when game-planning against a QB, Daniels checks a lot of those boxes. I've talked to scouts that describe him this way -- he demoralizes defenses."

Edited April 19 by Dah-Dee

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

God I hope that's not the reasoning why. 

[Dah-Dee]

 

Mack Brown on QB Drake Maye's competitive nature: 'He had to fight to get a chicken leg at the table'

Published: Apr 19, 2024 at 08:29 AM

 

 

The youngest of four boys, Drake Maye is used to battling for everything.

 

Coming from an athletically inclined family overshadowed the University of North Carolina product's upbringing, his father, Mark, was an All-American high school quarterback and played college ball at UNC. His mother, Amiee, was an All-State basketball player. His oldest brother, Luke, was a Tar Heel basketball forward, earning a national title. Cole won a national championship in baseball at Florida. Beau dealt with knee injuries but still walked onto the UNC basketball team.

 

Growing up in such a family frames Maye's personality and competitive nature.

 

North Carolina head coach Mack Brown recently told "The Jim Rome Show" that Maye's background will help him at the next level.

 

"If his mom and dad would let me, I'd adopt him," Brown said. "He is a great person. He's competitive. He's grown up in an athletic family. His mom was a college athlete. His dad was the leading passer in the ACC. He's got two brothers that won national championships -- one in baseball at Florida, one at basketball here. He's got another brother that was on our basketball team. He's the youngest of four, so he's been beaten up. He had to fight to get a chicken leg at the table. He's so competitive in everything he does. He's smart. He's got pride. He is so passionate about football that he does everything right in his life to make sure that he is going to play the best he can play."

 

A college coach stumping for his former player is nothing new, but given the situation it remains informative in how we (and teams) view Maye entering the NFL. The film is the film -- it will be picked apart for positives and negatives. Maye has both sky-high potential and some questionable attributes entering the NFL. But it's intangibles like the ones Brown verbalized that the team that selects Maye will lean on. NFL clubs overturn every stone in the pre-draft process, particularly for first-round quarterbacks.

 

Brown admitted that Maye is only starting two seasons and 26 games could be a negative entering his pro career (for comparison, Jayden Daniels stated 55 games in college).

 

"If there's a negative for him, he's played two years," Brown said. "Most of these guys have played five and six years because of COVID. He's only had two. So, what I see in that is that he's accomplished national player of the year in only two years. What he's got is the upside is unbelievable because he can improve so much -- every year. And I don't think there's any question. You got to get with the right team. You got to have the right coaches, but he's a guy that can win a Super Bowl at quarterback."

 

The discussion entering draft week will revolve around where and in what order the quarterbacks will land after Caleb Williams. Maye, Daniels, J.J. McCarthy, Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix are all options to go in the first round. With each boasting different talents, NFL teams must separate the intangibles that could make each a leader and potential star.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s wild to me that we legitimately have folks in their basement that think they are better suited as general managers than guys who have ate, slept, and played football since they were embryos.  The delusion is unreal.

 

I definitely don't know more or have nearly the football experience of NFL GMs, coaches, etc. But let's also not put them on some untouchable pedestal. Pretty much all GMs and coaches have made some colossal draft busts before, especially at QB.

[88Comrade2000]

6 days until our former qb is gone from the title.

 

 

[Conn]

8 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Remember when people used to look forward to having a highly regarded GM, in part, so that you have someone in the organization who isn’t beholden to short term thinking? 
 

Yeah I think some of these guys are forgetting about that when explaining the logic behind why they think the pick will be whoever 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

From Mark Bullock Q and A (he said he likes all of them and could make a case for each but then said the following):

 

“But I know you don't want the political answer so where I'm at after re-watching these guys again recently - Caleb Williams is still in a tier of his own. But next I would have Jayden Daniels, then JJ McCarthy and Drake Maye last. 

Going back and watching these guys again, it reminded me of just how electric Jayden Daniels was and just how often he made incredible plays, both with his arms and his legs. I've also recently seen passing maps with Kyler Murray under Kliff in Arizona, and you can see how Kliff developed Kyler. He was an electric running threat that threw a great deep ball and attacked more outside the numbers rather than the middle of the field, which is similar in style to Jayden right now. In those passing charts you can see in year one for Kyler, they mainly drew things up to play to his strengths, attack down the field and outside the numbers. But in year two and particularly year three, Kliff developed him into being able to attack the middle of the field and intermediate areas far more often before Kyler unfortunately suffered that big injury. So I think Kliff has a track record for developing that type of play-style, which makes Jayden the best fit for him. 

But I can just as easily see them liking McCarthy or Maye more, because those guys play more in the style the Kliff used in 2022, which was attacking over the middle more off play-action. That's what Kliff was working towards with Kyler before he got hurt.”

 

Er, wait. So he's saying KK should take the guy he may have to spend years developing into a level 2 middle of the field passer because he can run vs. the guy who can also run and who has already shown the ability to make all of those throws in just two years starting of college? How does that make any sense?

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Is that really who you think Keim is talking to? Really?? Come on now.  When we've got the most credible reporter with any connection to the Commanders, notorious for being cautious, giving us info from his sources, you don't think that's worth listening to? Keim is not an idiot and he knows it's "lying season." 

 

If the primary source (e.g., Keim) is trustworthy, then the secondary/anonymous sources that person uses are worth at least giving fair consideration versus automatic discard. 

 

When it's Eric Freaking Bickel passing along "gossip" from some unnamed tween, then yeah, it's time for a grain or bucket of salt. 

 

Besides, you guys need to stop picking on Minnesota's next QB, you'll have Justin Jefferson hunting you down for badmouthing his boy's successor. 

 

Agree.  Keim can take a beating because most know he's no clown as for sharing takes, many of which bear out, so when he shares something unpopular its not well received. But we all know he runs with  a zillion sources.   And not clown sources either.  I get the strong feeling that one of Keim's sources on the QB's is Kyle Shahanan. 

 

Granted some here know ball better than Kyle, I recall the beating he would take here on threads years ago.  But hopefully some will agree he'd be at least as good as the average poster here as to knowing the QB spot and offense.  Granted he wouldn't be as good as the best of the best here.  But I think Kyle Shahanan could likely hold a conversation for a bit before one of us would talk over his head about offenses. 

 

And again it doesn't mean Daniels > Maye.  I don't agree with it myself, I am a Maye > Daniels guy.  But I don't think Schefter, McGinn, Keim, Breer, etc are getting worked on the subject.  I actually don't think some of the people arguing they are getting worked deep down believe it either because if they did why worry about this topic at all.  But clearly some people are very worried.  😢

 

I am not bothered by the idea that its clear that some scouts-coaches don't agree with my take that Maye > Daniels.  And that's OK.  I can handle it. 

 

But as for Keim or whomever in their shoes it takes me back to the classic movie.  Feels like it brings some cognitive dissonance, this topic.  And Keim's not even saying that they are taking Daniels.  He simply said of the many coaches he talked to they all like Daniels better.  That's all.  It's not just Jay Gruden.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghost of]

15 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

From Mark Bullock Q and A (he said he likes all of them and could make a case for each but then said the following):

 

But I can just as easily see them liking McCarthy or Maye more, because those guys play more in the style the Kliff used in 2022, which was attacking over the middle more off play-action. That's what Kliff was working towards with Kyler before he got hurt.”

 

Well that's interesting. McCarthy is great on play action and attacking over the middle. No need to teach him and watching some of his highlights even from 2022, he does pass outside the numbers. 

[rumplestilskin]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Remember when people used to look forward to having a highly regarded GM, in part, so that you have someone in the organization who isn’t beholden to short term thinking? 
 

Yeah I think some of these guys are forgetting about that when explaining the logic behind why they think the pick will be whoever 

Agreed. I also find it annoying that some rationalize that we they would pick a QB based off of Kliff Kingsbury's offensive scheme. That too would be short term thinking. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I definitely don't know more or have nearly the football experience of NFL GMs, coaches, etc. But let's also not put them on some untouchable pedestal. Pretty much all GMs and coaches have made some colossal draft busts before, especially at QB.

That’s really not my point at all.  I could name several times where I’ve been right and the scouts and GM’s have been wrong myself.

 

But we are at a point where some posters will literally claim they are right, even if they are wrong, because their choice is the right choice via the right process.  And all sort of other mental gymnastics.  
 

Posters I’ve watched die on hill after hill over players and still pretend they are alive

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Conn said:

Remember when people used to look forward to having a highly regarded GM, in part, so that you have someone in the organization who isn’t beholden to short term thinking? 
 

Yeah I think some of these guys are forgetting about that when explaining the logic behind why they think the pick will be whoever 

 

Agree.

 

A.  I got no fear that Quinn is making the call.  It's clearly Peters

 

B.  I got no feat they are taking the QB who they feel is inferior just to win more games this year.

 

Zero, Nada, Zip.

 

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

I remember this article.

 

I remember thinking these scouts must've been watching completely different games and us.  Especially Scout 5, who perhaps was smoking some really good stuff when he chimed in.

 

I maintain that some people just troll media guys throughout this season sometimes.

"He took off because it looks cool." If I was an owner that employed that scout, he'd be fired the second I read that story. What just appalling, baseless, horse ----. Yeah, Caleb's just trying to look cool, well, wtf is Daniels doing when he's getting Super Dave Osborned every other game on his scrambles into potential lifelong paralysis?

[Conn]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

A.  I got no fear that Quinn is making the call.  It's clearly Peters

 

B.  I got no feat they are taking the QB who they feel is inferior just to win more games this year.

 

Zero, Nada, Zip.

 

I don’t believe they are either. I think the people paid to talk about these picks are doing themselves and their readers/listeners/viewers a disservice using that logic when talking about the pick. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

"He took off because it looks cool." If I was an owner that employed that scout, he'd be fired the second I read that story. What just appalling, baseless, horse ----. Yeah, Caleb's just trying to look cool, well, wtf is Daniels doing when he's getting Super Dave Osborned every other game on his scrambles into potential lifelong paralysis?

Your first mistake is taking any of these scout takes seriously.

 

Could be some random guy that gets scouts coffee... could be a smoke screen... could be honest... could be a lot of things. But these stupid "scouts said..." takes should be ignored. Every time. 

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, Conn said:

Remember when people used to look forward to having a highly regarded GM, in part, so that you have someone in the organization who isn’t beholden to short term thinking? 
 

Yeah I think some of these guys are forgetting about that when explaining the logic behind why they think the pick will be whoever 

Saying he is harder to defend is short term thinking now? 
 

You want the one that’s easier to defend cause…..?

[Dah-Dee]

Well here's a pretty terrifying article on Daniels that, imho, should slam the door shut on any desire to take JD5 at #2.  It's pretty long, with lots of data, so I won't copy the whole thing here, but even the last two paragraphs will produce nightmares:

 

https://www.dabearsblog.com/2024/jayden-daniels-looks-hauntingly-familiar

Jayden Daniels Looks Hauntingly Familiar

 Robert Schmitz | April 16th, 2024

 

[excerpt]

 

Mariota, like Fields, appears on basically every list with Daniels. He scrambled from a clean pocket at an above average rate (though not as often as Daniels and Fields), scrambled at an above average rate overall (again not quite as often as Daniels and Fields), targeted MOF less often than those two, and like Daniels was an overly conservative deep passer. His NFL career is a tale of maddening inconsistency as he looked like a surefire star early on only to see his career disintegrate under a parade of turn downs, hits, sacks, fumbles, and injuries. A QB who takes too many sacks and won’t take chunk plays over the middle of the field but also won’t compensate by pushing the ball vertically is just not a very valuable NFL starter, unfortunately. 

 

In the end, comps in the NFL Draft are a valuable tool — there are only so many ways to operate at the quarterback position and it is likely we have seen similar versions of players before. It’s important however that these comps be grounded in data and reality, and when you do so it’s obvious that we have seen players like Jayden Daniels before, just not in the form of a guy like the reigning MVP Lamar Jackson. Daniels slots much more comfortably into the archetype established by guys like Marcus Mariota and Justin Fields, and if you’re not comfortable with the likelihood of ending up with the next version of those guys, I’d say Jayden Daniels may not be the top 10 QB pick for you. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Conn said:

I don’t believe they are either. I think the people paid to talk about these picks are doing themselves and their readers/listeners/viewers a disservice using that logic when talking about the pick. 

 

I agree, i got that was your perspective.  i doubt this brass gives a rats behind about who wins them more games this year versus long term.  It goes aganist everything I read.

 

And coming from someone who prefers Maye, I think the draftniks who keep playing up Daniels being pro ready now as an X factor is doing the narrative a disservice -- it feels like a false argument for really any team to take him unless the coach is on the hot seat.  If I was pushing Daniels I wouldn't even bring that topic up.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Skinsinparadise