All things defense

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

On 8/29/2023 at 11:58 AM, Captain James said:

The team as a whole has the "starts slow" stigma that we need to finally shake off. Fingers crossed for (truly) a new era in Washington.

I think that changes with Howell. Big arm and Killer attitude always looking downfield...not a "Captain Checkdown". Even if he's 50/50 on deep routes..it's like a punt on a INT and we expect the our defense to shut people down. So I expect some early long ball completions and short fields for Howell.

[Leonard Washington]

9 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

 we expect the our defense to shut people down

Based on past season, that expectation might be unreasonable.   Our offense starting slow is explainable but our defense starting slow is tradition.

[Rex Tomb]

Calling it now… JDR is going to go ultra conservative on defense, rushing only 4 on 90% of defensive snaps.  The rookie QB will have all day to make reads, but the AZ offense will stall inside the red zone multiple times, leading to field goals.  They get a late TD to score 16 points.  But we score 20. 

[kingdaddy]

3 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Calling it now… JDR is going to go ultra conservative on defense, rushing only 4 on 90% of defensive snaps.  The rookie QB will have all day to make reads, but the AZ offense will stall inside the red zone multiple times, leading to field goals.  They get a late TD to score 16 points.  But we score 20. 

You got me thinking, given that we'll have a rookie CB in his first NFL start, do we blitz early and often leaving Forbes on an island or do we ask our front 4 to generate the pressure on their own? I think JDR will do what you predict, vanilla base defense that makes Arizona look competent on offense. 

[Rex Tomb]

10 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

You got me thinking, given that we'll have a rookie CB in his first NFL start, do we blitz early and often leaving Forbes on an island or do we ask our front 4 to generate the pressure on their own? I think JDR will do what you predict, vanilla base defense that makes Arizona look competent on offense. 

If Forbes is supposed to be the lockdown corner/turnover machine we drafted him to be, what better opportunity to let that shine than during a game playing against a rookie QB with a terrible offensive line?  But, JDR’s penchant for running vanilla defense between the 20s is so predictable.  

[Koolblue13]

Even without Young, our front 4/5 is really freaking good and Dobbs isn't exactly going to take off and run on you. 

 

Mixing up coverages in the backfield and letting the front eat, is a much better plan than blitzing him constantly.

 

If it's Tune, that's a bit different, because he's got some wheels, so the DL will be playing more of a contain, but the rookie isn't going to understand our defensive backfield with 3 safety looks that he's never seen.

[RandyHolt]

Our D won it so this thread gets a bump.

 

OK so i beat the drums this summer predicting JDR was going to be playing soft, a rather contrarian opine. Cover 3 shell bend don't break prevent I care what its called but its the DCs general approach. While I was encouraged (read: stunned) we were not in soft zone/carlos cushion on the final drive, I didn't see Arizona attacked at the LOS like their loser QB and loser roster warranted. The reason why I ask is because Arizona was a fine week to be aggressive at low risk maybe more than any week. I stand firm thinking we need to use the undisputed team strength to win games. With a crap OL that cannot run block and noob QB I think JDR needs try to pitch shutouts/force turnovers to start games more than he does. Not hope for a fumble in the 4th. 

 

Curious if anyone saw any trends. What were we in predominately 5-1-5, 4-2-5 two high safeties with lots of zone match? Cover 2 man, 8 in jacks box, Cover Zone 3? Or easier questions to quantify - how many times did we blitz and was it at league average? Did we run blitz/attack at the LOS on "run downs" as much as Dallas or Philly other teams with a thik ass stud DL? Did our backers play to NEVER get sucked into play action?  It worked for JDR so he gets a pass but it easily could have failed if a DB slipped on that final drive.

 

This tweet below is blaming Barton / soft play.  I call bunk. Barton played every snap & if he should be filling gaps aggressively and he's NOT? He'd get benched. Defenders love to be aggressive (anyone that played D disagree??) and its probably killing him to read and then be grilled after a win.  The tweet below - the guy sees a theme. Me? I see JDRs scheme. I think Arizona would have won if they just ran Connor 25 times and not put the game into their worst players hands. Exploit Barton not attacking, force JDR to move up his backers and then suck them into play action.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Going Commando]

Barton wasn't great on that play but he was OK.  The defense stopped a zone run for six or seven yards that the back did a good job cutting back and taking up field.  The only decent chance to stop that play for a short gain would have been from Allen or Jamin, but the back fooled them with that cutback.  NFL running backs are pretty good.

[RandyHolt]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Barton wasn't great on that play but he was OK.  The defense stopped a zone run for six or seven yards that the back did a good job cutting back and taking up field.  The only decent chance to stop that play for a short gain would have been from Allen or Jamin, but the back fooled them with that cutback.  NFL running backs are pretty good.

Thanks for sharing your opine. 

 

But first if you care to guess from what you saw, what was Bartons first read and thus the primary assignment there. I see that he was playing the pass first by how slow he reacted. Big picture he shed an OL and made the tackle... not a terrible play. Do you think Barton played the scheme correctly?  Was he expected to not engage the OL at all, and risk his run gap coverage? I openly admit I have no clue but to me I think he was reading more than attacking so he ends up with the center coming off a double at him at speed.

Edited September 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Thanks for sharing your opine. 

 

But first if you care to guess from what you saw, what was his first read and thus the primary assignment there. I see that he was playing the pass first by how slow he reacted. Big picture he shed an OL and made the tackle... not a terrible play. Do you think Barton played the scheme correctly?  Was he expected to not engage the OL at all, and risk his run gap coverage? I openly admit I have no clue but to me I think he was reading more than attacking so he ends up with the center coming off a double at him at speed.

 

I think Barton was fine too.  The absolute ideal outcome is if he could have held his ground a little better, but he's got a climbing lineman to deal with and he 100% did his job and I think it's weird that Mark Tyler is blaming him for how that play went down.  It's second and 14 and they gave up 7 on a draw that the RB made a good play on.  The defense was fine.  You are definitely right that Barton had to read pass first on that play given the down and distance, and if it was draw like it ended up being, then he had plenty of space before the sticks to work with.  I honestly don't think there is much to criticize any of the defenders there with on that play.  Expecting guys to not get blocked back a few steps when they have to sit down in their gap is just not realistic.  This is the NFL, the players are really good.  They hit their landmarks on their climbs and the backs are really explosive.

[RandyHolt]

Thanks.  I didn't know down and distance so knowing it was a "passing" down that now helps my quest to grade JDRs aggressiveness that I have been clamoring for.  Down and distance heavily dictate what a DC does of course so I won't use that play to gauge JDR at all. Random thought - its impressive how many 3rd and long draw plays used to always seem to come up a yard short because defenses are so heavily playing pass. Until the OL gets settled maybe EB needs to run more out of spread / 2nd and long passing downs. 

 

This PFF chart is from 2021 but if anyone finds the 2023 version hook us up.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Wyvern]

Curious, with the microscope on shortfalls in Barton's performance, I wonder why those same critics aren't also looking critically at Jamin Davis' performance in week one. 

 

Frankly, I was not that impressed with Jamin Davis performances -- on quite a few plays. Perhaps others were more impressed by Davis, but out of several of his several  "under-performances" that I observed,  I especially recall one play late in the first quarter, (appx. 2 minutes left) where he looked lost on coverage assignments on a  Cards' receiver who easily got wide open and then caught the pass for a big gain, (not sure if it counted, because there was some non-related flag on the play). 

 

Check it out. That receiver was open because Jamin didn't even try to cover him, or even get into the passing lane.  Davis seemed almost frozen with indecision. 

 

I also saw scenarios where Davis seemed to have troubles shaking blocks, or being the initiating factor in bringing the rusher down.  (He followed up on a few tackles but generally the runner was essentially already being taken down.). Okay, I'll grant that Davis can occasionally be a good surprise rusher/Blitzer, but he still looks tentative on his coverage or closing running gap responsibilities.  I didn't see much of that speed he supposedly has.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Wyvern

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

 

I thought we got more pressure than that. We're about bottom 1/3rd or bottom 1/2 in rate of blitzing. Also really surprised this stat has the Eagles pressure rate barely better than ours, I had heard the Eagles DL dominated the Pats. But I guess that wasn't the case?

 

At any rate, if we go only be week 1 our OL gets another chance to play above themselves against the Broncos before running into a tough Bills front.

[Warhead36]

I'm sorry but I just don't buy any metric that has us as "no pressure threat." That's just absurd.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm sorry but I just don't buy any metric that has us as "no pressure threat." That's just absurd.

 

It's PFF, so take it with a grain of salt. At least the blitzing rate they use should be pretty accurate.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is awesome, showcases Jon Allen is the leader of that defense. Him egging on Payne and Sweat is one of the best mic'd up segments I've ever watched.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

Chase cleared and active week 2 vs Denver....giddy up.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

[MrJL]

you know what I just realized our defense is missing?  A guy who also plays offense.  Let's get Daron lined up at FB on the goal line

[Anselmheifer]

16 hours ago, MrJL said:

you know what I just realized our defense is missing?  A guy who also plays offense.  Let's get Daron lined up at FB on the goal line

Montez at TE, with his 6’6” frame and 4.4 speed 

[kingdaddy]

It seems to me that Jamin Davis is starting to make more of an impact and is playing with confidence. I haven't studied him but he's flashing more and more. His play on Wilson turned the game somewhat when we recovered the fumble. Would love to see him keep this up and become a playmaker.

[KillBill26]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:14 PM, Rex Tomb said:

Calling it now… JDR is going to go ultra conservative on defense, rushing only 4 on 90% of defensive snaps.  The rookie QB will have all day to make reads, but the AZ offense will stall inside the red zone multiple times, leading to field goals.  They get a late TD to score 16 points.  But we score 20. 

The Cardinals ended up starting Dobbs, not the rookie tune.  You are really awful with predictions.  

 

But seriously, wow man.  That's pretty good.    

[Dark Acre]

5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Montez at TE, with his 6’6” frame and 4.4 speed 

I've been saying that since he was drafted.  End around.

[mudhog]

I was watching Pedro's podcast on the Commanders today and he said that Payne didn't participate. Does anyone know how bad the ankle is? I know he came back in to finish the game, but that's all.

[Rex Tomb]

12 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

The Cardinals ended up starting Dobbs, not the rookie tune.  You are really awful with predictions.  

 

But seriously, wow man.  That's pretty good.    

Yeah, I impress myself sometimes 😂