All things defense

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Anselmheifer]

I’m starting to feel like the difficulty in winning based on defense in the NFL makes investing this heavily on that side of the ball foolhardy. Decreasing returns.  It’s an offensive league. We need a QB and weapons. 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

WM3 is healthy and ready to resume getting burned again.

[Mooka]

I knew Jackson wasn't healthy all season, he didn't look right out there at any point. 

[Playaction2Sanders]

6 hours ago, FrFan said:

 

I never had a problem with Haslett. Our issue was we had basically no talent on defense when he was here, just Kerrigan, Fletcher and Hall.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’m starting to feel like the difficulty in winning based on defense in the NFL makes investing this heavily on that side of the ball foolhardy. Decreasing returns.  It’s an offensive league. We need a QB and weapons. 

Yep there is no point in investing heavily on defense at all. Get the offense first and you can kinda figure things out as you go on defense.

[Koolblue13]

Offense gets you to the playoffs and defense still wins championships. We saw it in almost every single game last year, from our playoff game to the superbowl. 

 

When youre winning 5-6 games a year, obviously offense should be the focus, but its absurd to sleep on the defense. 

 

If the issue with WJIII has been an injury and he comes back to form, that would be a huge win. Especially with Collins out of the way.

[Renegade7]

14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep there is no point in investing heavily on defense at all. Get the offense first and you can kinda figure things out as you go on defense.

 

I dont agree with ignoring one side of the ball until the other is fixed, regardless of which side we are talking about.  

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I dont agree with ignoring one side of the ball until the other is fixed, regardless of which side we are talking about.  

I agree, but to be fair, he did say “invest heavily”.  Kind of subjective on what ‘heavily’ means… 2nd rounders?  5mil contracts?

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I agree, but to be fair, he did say “invest heavily”.  Kind of subjective on what ‘heavily’ means… 2nd rounders?  5mil contracts?

 

I took "offense first" as ignoring defense more so the investing heavily or not.  @Warhead36 can speak for himself, but I've noticed his posts about how football is a individual sport predicated on having a franchise QB. .

 

At first I was feeling it, but after watching the Titans lately knock off super bowl contenders, im not so sure anymore its that straight forward.  In theory, thats not a team that should be winning, but its arguably the best team in the AFC right now.

[Warhead36]

Anyone can have one good game or even one good season. I'm talking about sustained success. Being a good team, a contender, year in year out for 5+ years. Those teams all have franchise QBs. Packers with Rodgers. Seahawks with Wilson. Steelers with Roethlisberger. Ravens with Flacco and then Jackson. List goes on. People point to the Titans like they're some kind of exception, but they don't give Tannehill enough credit. He is a legit QB. Fringe top 10 in the league. In fact, they didn't actually start winning games until Tannehill was named starter.

 

The supporting cast of the QB isn't anywhere near as important either. I read a stat just now that the Packers in games without Aaron Rodgers average fewer points offensively than the worst offenses in the league. I forget the exact #s but they were compared to like the winless Lions/Browns teams. Look at how junk the Seahawks have looked without Wilson even though they still have Metcalf, Lockett, etc. The Bucs had basically the same team before Brady got there(minus AB and Gronk)and went 7-9. Now they're potentially a back to back Super Bowl team.

 

We keep trying to either reinvent the wheel or act like its 1985 when building this team and that's why we never sustain success and can only bank on the occasional 10-6 type season where we have to "win 5 in a row or we don't go" or some other non sense. It'll be the same story next season when we trade for some bum like Trebisky or Mariotta and draft a freaking Safety with a top 5 pick.

[Renegade7]

@Warhead36I do not agree that Tannehill is a fringe top 10 QB.  Hes average to barely above average at best, his stats don't support a near top 10 case at all.

 

  And you can't say a supporting cast doesn't matter when you give an example of Tampa dropping Brady in and all the sudden being a super bowl team.  That team had talent and no QB. 

 

Theres nothing wrong with building the team while looking for a QB.  That doesn't mean a franchise QB doesn't matter or shouldn't be a priority, but well run franchise chew gum and walk at the same time.  

 

Nobody disagrees with the need for a franchise QB for sustained success.  We jus been having trouble accomplishing that, but our franchise's effort has been there and they won't stop talking about it.  I jus dont agree with this idea that nothing else matters.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

If the issue with WJIII has been an injury and he comes back to form, that would be a huge win

Perhaps I missed it - but I don't think that can explain how he looks bewildered out there and is always on the other end of a communication breakdown - unless the injury is to his brain.

[PartyPosse]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

  And you can't say a supporting cast doesn't matter when you give an example of Tampa dropping Brady in and all the sudden being a super bowl team.  That team had talent and no QB. 

Agreed. Going from a guy that threw 30 INT to Brady is huge. The cast was there.

[Warhead36]

31 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps I missed it - but I don't think that can explain how he looks bewildered out there and is always on the other end of a communication breakdown - unless the injury is to his brain.

Yeah I don't buy it. The guy just must have the IQ of a rock. I don't understand how the D can be this complicated. Darby came in as a FA too and seemed to pick it up right away. Ditto Fuller.

 

 

[tmandoug1]

20 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

WM3 is healthy and ready to resume getting burned again.

Yep...the aloe treatments on all the burns from a

l of his previous games has worked. 

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't buy it. The guy just must have the IQ of a rock. I don't understand how the D can be this complicated. Darby came in as a FA too and seemed to pick it up right away. Ditto Fuller.

 

 

Darby took advantage of a front 4 that forced QBs into bad throws. He is ass this year in Denver.

[method man]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't buy it. The guy just must have the IQ of a rock. I don't understand how the D can be this complicated. Darby came in as a FA too and seemed to pick it up right away. Ditto Fuller.

 

 

 

I think this is unfortunately it. Dude skipped the Wonderlic at the combine

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Darby took advantage of a front 4 that forced QBs into bad throws. He is ass this year in Denver.

Perhaps, but he didn't completely blow assignments either. If he got beat he got beat, he didn't look like he was trying to learn brain surgery.

[PartyPosse]

44 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Perhaps, but he didn't completely blow assignments either. If he got beat he got beat, he didn't look like he was trying to learn brain surgery.

Dunno if that makes it any better. 

[kingdaddy]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:16 PM, Playaction2Sanders said:

 

I never had a problem with Haslett. Our issue was we had basically no talent on defense when he was here, just Kerrigan, Fletcher and Hall.

IDK, my recollection of Haslett was always playing the corners 10 yards off the LOS. I remember going crazy watching this week after week. 

[Die Hard]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, Renegade7 said:

@Warhead36I do not agree that Tannehill is a fringe top 10 QB.  Hes average to barely above average at best, his stats don't support a near top 10 case at all.

 

  And you can't say a supporting cast doesn't matter when you give an example of Tampa dropping Brady in and all the sudden being a super bowl team.  That team had talent and no QB. 

 

Theres nothing wrong with building the team while looking for a QB.  That doesn't mean a franchise QB doesn't matter or shouldn't be a priority, but well run franchise chew gum and walk at the same time.  

 

Nobody disagrees with the need for a franchise QB for sustained success.  We jus been having trouble accomplishing that, but our franchise's effort has been there and they won't stop talking about it.  I jus dont agree with this idea that nothing else matters.

I think Ron is building in the same way the  Bucs/Bills did. Build a team with a lot of pieces and then have the franchise QB fall into your lap - though different ways.

 

I have no idea which direction they’re going to go…. But it sounds like they know what needs to happen. There’s urgency.

 

But there shouldn’t be desperation…. where you over-pay and settle.

 

Identify your guy and take your best shot. 

[drowland]

10 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

I think Ron is building in the same way the  Bucs/Bills did. Build a team with a lot of pieces and then have the franchise QB fall into your lap - though different ways.

 

I have no idea which direction they’re going to go…. But it sounds like they know what needs to happen. There’s urgency.

 

But there shouldn’t be desperation…. where you over-pay and settle.

 

Identify your guy and take your best shot. 

 

Waiting for the QB to fall into your lap isn't what I'd call urgency.  As for the Bills and Bucs, Arians and McDermott addressed QB going into their 2nd year.  Ron absolutely needs to address it going into year 3 otherwise his tenure is becoming a failure.  So yeah identify your guy and take a shot, but they can't afford to miss.   

[wit33]

On 11/9/2021 at 1:27 PM, PartyPosse said:

Darby took advantage of a front 4 that forced QBs into bad throws. He is ass this year in Denver.

 

How did you come to the conclusion he’s been terrible in Denver? Him being injured for much of the year?

Edited November 10, 2021 by wit33

[Die Hard]

5 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Waiting for the QB to fall into your lap isn't what I'd call urgency.

They took their shot with Stanford. It didn’t work out. They went to plan D because plan B and C were too expensive. It didn’t work out with Fitz. That happens…. Specifically to every single WFT QB so no surprise their. 
 

Now the team still has the flexibility to try another plan A. That’s urgency. At least by my definition.