All things defense

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

Not yet.

Won't probably happen this week though.

 

Check next monday.

 

Ugggghhh

 

They'll have a ready-made excuse next week, "It's KC, what do you expect?"

 

I kind of expect to hear this when it's 38-10............................. at the half

[ThePackisback]

10 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Ugggghhh

 

They'll have a ready-made excuse next week, "It's KC, what do you expect?"

 

I kind of expect to hear this when it's 38-10............................. at the half

KC isn’t that good this year. You guys will win.

[Renegade7]

Landon Collins all the sudden seems lazy AF.  On one of the bombs he pulls up well before the saints player is in the endzone. Doesn't try to do anything, not even in the hail Mary.  Hes always a day late and dollar short right now, I agree we cut people that shouldn't of been cut, like Reeves and Moreland.  Too much tinkering on defense, its 2006 all over again.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Landon Collins all the sudden seems lazy AF.  On one of the bombs he pulls up well before the saints player is in the endzone. Doesn't try to do anything, not even in the hail Mary.  Hes always a day late and dollar short right now, I agree we cut people that shouldn't of been cut, like Reeves and Moreland.  Too much tinkering on defense, its 2006 all over again.

He doesn't care because he knows there are no consequences.

[Idaho fan]

Season Saved.  Washington has picked up CB Corn Elder.

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

Season Saved.  Washington has picked up CB Corn Elder.

When we play Green Bay in 11 days, if he covers Randall Cobb, it’ll be.....wait for it.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

corn on the Cobb  

[Skinsinparadise]

So PFF likes our D line but not secondary or LBs

 

 

 

[zCommander]

Alex Smith: ‘vanilla’ defending has exposed Washington

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/alex-smith-vanilla-defending-has-exposed-washington

 

“They’ve been letting that defensive line try to work, rushing four, and they have not been getting home. On the backend they’ve been vanilla and been getting exposed. And I really do think it comes back to the defensive line,” Smith said on an episode of the ESPN Daily Podcast this week.

 

Smith added: “If that front four, if you’re going to play that way, can’t get home, it can be tough sledding. Because you really can’t leave the backend exposed. That’s really kinda what I see. I really feel like they’re trying to find their identity on defense, something they can hang their hat on.”

 

“They actually started the game, in the first half, caused a couple turnovers. Chase Young got his first one, it was a sack fumble, and I felt like they actually were getting ready to turn the corner,” Smith said. “And then, man, when they got the Hail Mary thrown right before half, and then in the fourth quarter, gave up some big plays. It’s tough.”

 

“I do think they’re searching. It’s a group that’s extremely talented," Smith said. "They should be playing better. Still a lot of football left ahead of them. I hope they can kind of find their way, find their footing.”

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Jbird7]

5 hours ago, ThePackisback said:

KC isn’t that good this year. You guys will win.

 

KC might score 80 on this 2ndary.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:48 AM, IrepDC said:

 

 

You rebalance our portfolio through the draft. If you do it that way, you get young talent at any position you need, and it's for a bargain.

 

 

Yep and thats why well run teams when a glut of salary is poised to be directed to one spot, let a player go, and replenish that spot in the draft.  See the Steelers.  See the Ravens.  49ers traded a D lineman, got a first rounder, and went back to the well and used a first rounder to get another D lineman on the cheap.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 1:48 AM, IrepDC said:

 

My preference for conservative spending in FA answers the problem you're trying to solve by letting our talent walk(or trading them away). Would you not say our FA spending is a bigger cap issue than overspending to keep our own talent? When has overspending to keep talent been our issue? We have had the issue with FAs for decades.

 

 

The Steelers and Ravens aren't big spenders in FA yet do actually what i am talking about.  They spend to keep their own -- that plays into part of your point and I agree with that part of it.  Where they depart from you is it does matter to them how much they spend per spot and if one spot looks out of hand they make a change and let an asset go to ensure they have a balanced team.  The Steelers can let a WR go because they are confident they will find another in the draft.     The Ravens let guys go in FA and accumulate comp picks and get younger and cheaper. 

 

Your premise seems to be based some on pessimism.  We won't find another Tim Settle or Daron Payne in all likelihood with that extra pick.  We got lucky the original time but you don't trust the decision makers to pull it off now?  So imbalance with our roster is a neccessary quirk with this team because the odds aren't good they will have success drafting just in general.

 

[method man]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep and thats why well run teams when a glut of salary is poised to be directed to one spot, let a player go, and replenish that spot in the draft.  See the Steelers.  See the Ravens.  49ers traded a D lineman, got a first rounder, and went back to the well and used a first rounder to get another D lineman on the cheap.

 

 

The Steelers and Ravens aren't big spenders in FA yet do actually what i am talking about.  They spend to keep their own -- that plays into part of your point and I agree with that part of it.  Where they depart from you is it does matter to them how much they spend per spot and if one spot looks out of hand they make a change and let an asset go to ensure they have a balanced team.  The Steelers can let a WR go because they are confident they will find another in the draft.     The Ravens let guys go in FA and accumulate comp picks and get younger and cheaper. 

 

Your premise seems to be based some on pessimism.  We won't find another Tim Settle or Daron Payne in all likelihood with that extra pick.  We got lucky the original time but you don't trust the decision makers to pull it off now?  So imbalance with our roster is a neccessary quirk with this team because the odds aren't good they will have success drafting just in general.

 

 

Look at this organization's hit rate on Day 3 picks. Out of all those picks, Curl, Holcomb, Roullier and Settle have been the only meaningful contributors (Jimmy too if you want to count him) out of those past 5 drafts. You've had a few guys who have been effective as backups but they've been no better than picking up a veteran on the minimum.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Look at this organization's hit rate on Day 3 picks. Out of all those picks, Curl, Holcomb, Roullier and Settle have been the only meaningful contributors (Jimmy too if you want to count him) out of those past 5 drafts. You've had a few guys who have been effective as backups but they've been no better than picking up a veteran on the minimum.

 

We are we confined to day 3 picks?  Look up the hit rate in general for 3rd day picks.  It's abysmal.  

 

We see right now what this team looks like with the D line being the lead actor of the play.    We stink.   I am just not going to be convinced to overspend at any spot on the team compared to how other successful teams do it.  I am not buying we cant do it like other teams so suck it up and do it differently because we can't find another D lineman in the draft or name that position.

 

I am not that pessmistic.   

Edited October 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[ThomasRoane]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So PFF likes our D line but not secondary or LBs

 

 

 

I can see that.  The back end has been horrible.  Tampa laid out the blueprint last year; quick passing game.  Chargers prepped for it during preseason.  Everyone else has been copying the same strategy pretty much.  Nothing changes because the personnel doesn't changed.  

[IrepDC]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep and thats why well run teams when a glut of salary is poised to be directed to one spot, let a player go, and replenish that spot in the draft.  See the Steelers.  See the Ravens.  49ers traded a D lineman, got a first rounder, and went back to the well and used a first rounder to get another D lineman on the cheap.

 

 

The Steelers and Ravens aren't big spenders in FA yet do actually what i am talking about.  They spend to keep their own -- that plays into part of your point and I agree with that part of it.  Where they depart from you is it does matter to them how much they spend per spot and if one spot looks out of hand they make a change and let an asset go to ensure they have a balanced team.  The Steelers can let a WR go because they are confident they will find another in the draft.     The Ravens let guys go in FA and accumulate comp picks and get younger and cheaper. 

 

Your premise seems to be based some on pessimism.  We won't find another Tim Settle or Daron Payne in all likelihood with that extra pick.  We got lucky the original time but you don't trust the decision makers to pull it off now?  So imbalance with our roster is a neccessary quirk with this team because the odds aren't good they will have success drafting just in general.

 

The biggest disconnect I think is my point that we are nowhere near as talented a roster as the teams who traded talent away. I don't disagree with your philosophy later down the road in our build. The 49ers were coming off a Super Bowl appearance when they traded one of their DL. The Ravens and Steelers rosters are loaded when they let talent walk. That's what you don't seem to be factoring in. We don't have a Super Bowl caliber roster like the 49ers had. We would be a lot more like the Jaguars trading away Ramsey or the Texans trading away Hopkins than we would be like the 49ers, Ravens or Steelers.

 

We are a team with very few blue chip players, a bunch of overpaid free agents, and some decent to below average players filling out the roster. It's not building the roster imbalanced when you keep the few good players we have. It's building on the few good players you have. Our salary cap room before throwing money at FAs proves that. By the time our DL gets to their 3rd contracts, I would hope that we have a roster with enough talent to need to make those tough choices. We don't right now. We are the Jags. We are the Texans. We are not the 49ers.

 

I'll go along with your idea, though, that we need to let someone walk to flesh out that plan a bit more. Maybe I will agree if you flesh it out. So we let Payne walk, or we trade him for a 1st or 2nd, who are you spending that 18 mil on that you save? Does that go to a FA? Does the draft pick we get go right back to drafting a replacement DT like the 49ers example?

 

Then let's say we let Sweat walk as you suggest as well. Our DL is now half strength that it was. Who does that 20 mil that you save go to? A few more FAs? Are two mid tier FAs really worth more than DL who are only getting better? I need an example of what you think will be better to spend that money on.

 

Forgetting our bad history with FAs, I still think it's money better spent keeping what we have. I still think you're comparing us to teams that were way further along in their building process than we are. It just seems like another set up for us to be complaining about some guy from another team we overvalued and overpaid while watching Payne and Sweat reach their prime on another roster. Unfortunately I think the team will follow your plan, and we will get to see if I was right.

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

8 hours ago, Jbird7 said:

 

KC might score 80 on this 2ndary.

 

 

Hopefully the upgraded Jumbotron can accommodate a 3 digit score. Just saying…

[method man]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We are we confined to day 3 picks?  Look up the hit rate in general for 3rd day picks.  It's abysmal.  

 

We see right now what this team looks like with the D line being the lead actor of the play.    We stink.   I am just not going to be convinced to overspend at any spot on the team compared to how other successful teams do it.  I am not buying we cant do it like other teams so suck it up and do it differently because we can't find another D lineman in the draft or name that position.

 

I am not that pessmistic.   

 

Compare our Day 3 picks to the Ravens. By the way, their 2018 draft was amazing - Lamar, Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews, Orlando Brown Jr., Deshon Elliot and Bradley Bozeman

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

12 hours ago, method man said:

 

Compare our Day 3 picks to the Ravens. By the way, their 2018 draft was amazing - Lamar, Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews, Orlando Brown Jr., Deshon Elliot and Bradley Bozeman

 

I hear you.  But I am not building a team differently than what winning organizations (not just Baltimore) do on the premise that we aren't going to draft well in the future.   So we will agree to disagree on this.  You aren't going to get me to come around to your point and clearly I am not convincing you of mine. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, IrepDC said:

 

 

I'll go along with your idea, though, that we need to let someone walk to flesh out that plan a bit more. Maybe I will agree if you flesh it out. So we let Payne walk, or we trade him for a 1st or 2nd, who are you spending that 18 mil on that you save? Does that go to a FA? Does the draft pick we get go right back to drafting a replacement DT like the 49ers example?

 

I am not fleshing it out.  I can't predict the future.  What I am saying is its not some quirky idea of me alone as for allocation of money per spot.  The over the cap guys talk about it all the time.  Even guys like Warren Sharp, analytic types, have gotten into the strategy of money allocation and break it down per team.   I've heard money wiz types like Eric Schaffer talk about it.  It does IMO matter.   

 

To simplify it, lets bring the conversation to QB, and use it as an analogy to this.  There is a limit to how much a team is willing to pay typically for the spot because they know if they go too crazy they will pay the price later as for building a roster regardless of not knowing who they are picking in the forthcoming drafts.   And this is for the be all and end all spot in the game.  While I love the D line, its not the sun rises and falls spot on a roster -- that spot is the QB and even for that spot teams have limits. 

 

The high point of the market right now is 40 million a year for QB.  I am willing to do the equivalent of that and change for the D line spot.  So I am willing to do a Mahomes style break the bank allocation for the spot and even break that allocation and go higher.   20 to 30 million a piece for Sweat and Young after Allen is getting 18 million and change.    Your point seems to be that's not enough.

 

Bringing this back to a QB analogy money wise.   The way I see your point is you contend that they should break the bank and go much further, pay 50 million a year to keep that dude.   

 

Sticking with the QB analogy, your logic if I follow it correctly seems to be because since you can't predict the future than why not pay the 50 million and deal with the consequences later?  Because heck you never know the future and since you don't have faith that the team will draft well anyway so just run with it because its the bird in hand and as for salary allocation that matters more to other well run teams who are capable of finding good players in the draft versus this team who you think will blow it. 

 

I get the logic but I disagree with it.  I am willing to overpay for a positon.  So on that we agree.  Our disagreement is in my view you are willing to do it to an extreme extent and I am not.  

 

 

16 hours ago, IrepDC said:

 

 

Then let's say we let Sweat walk as you suggest as well. Our DL is now half strength that it was.

 

I suggested nothing of the kind.  I said pay THREE of the D lineman that big money.  Not all four.  According to Keim that's what he believes their mindset is on this too. But will see. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Dark Acre]

On 10/13/2021 at 7:23 AM, Idaho fan said:

Season Saved.  Washington has picked up CB Corn Elder.

Better the Elder than the children of.

[ananoman]

I'm very confident in this defense continuing to suck.  So much so that I just picked up Mecole Hardman and Darrell Williams of the KC Chiefs on my Fantasy team and plan to start them.  Going forward my new strategy might be to pick up any available WR/TE/RB/QB of the apposing team for their game against WFT

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

So who's running the Offensive Scout Team against this D in practice? Why wasn't this exposed during training camp? Seems like anybody with a pulse can pick these DB's apart.

Are they doing anything differently in practice now??? Anybody hearing anything?

[CobraCommander]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I hear you.  But I am not building a team differently than what winning organizations (not just Baltimore) do on the premise that we aren't going to draft well in the future.   So we will agree to disagree on this.  You aren't going to get me to come around to your point and clearly I am not convincing you of mine. 

Del Rio needs to give Jamin more snaps. He's not gonna learn to let it rip from the sideline. 

[Going Commando]

On 10/13/2021 at 2:57 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We are we confined to day 3 picks?  Look up the hit rate in general for 3rd day picks.  It's abysmal.  

 

We see right now what this team looks like with the D line being the lead actor of the play.    We stink.   I am just not going to be convinced to overspend at any spot on the team compared to how other successful teams do it.  I am not buying we cant do it like other teams so suck it up and do it differently because we can't find another D lineman in the draft or name that position.

 

I am not that pessmistic.   

 

Where we are overspending is the secondary.  Our three most expensive FA signings are DBs and they all suck, that's our problem in resource allocation.  Spending big to keep your own stud DL is worth it.  Spending big for a free agent safety is not.  Nor is spending big for a corner with a career high six AV season. We paid a premium to sign a corner who has been a below average starter for most of his career.  That was the teambuilding failure and you don't make it worse by letting your worthy talent walk to save money because you wasted too much of your cap on free agent busts.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Where we are overspending is the secondary.  Our three most expensive FA signings are DBs and they all suck, that's our problem in resource allocation.  Spending big to keep your own stud DL is worth it.  Spending big for a free agent safety is not.  Nor is spending big for a corner with a career high six AV season. We paid a premium to sign a corner who has been a below average starter for most of his career.  That was the teambuilding failure and you don't make it worse by letting your worthy talent walk to save money because you wasted too much of your cap on free agent busts.

 

I am not talking about today/now.  Yeah Collins was a waste.  Jackson thus far looks like an over spend.  What I am referring to is there is a certain allocation that most teams don't exceed per spot.  They will overspend on a spot but there is a limit to it -- its not a free spending credit card where the sky is the limit.  The Steelers for example don't have 4 receivers who are 15-20 million guys.  you don't have 3 corners that make 15-20 million.  And yeah team typically don't have 4 D lineman making 20-30 million -- consuming potentially 50% of their budget in one spot.  It's how most good teams roll IMO.  For example what if you want to land a big expensive QB?  If you go bananas at D line and go heavy of QB how do you build the rest of your roster?   

 

I'd do it that way just if the cap explodes.  For me its all about cap allocation, so heck if the cap goes way up than terrific than spend on anything their heart desires.  

 

But anyway I am tired of debating the issue.  Not with you but I have here debated enough with another.  So if some want to think differently about it.  Cool. I know I am not on some crazy island on this point.  I've heard ex-GMs, cap type guys, ex-agents talk about the point plenty. But I get the logic on the other side of the argument. So to each their own on it. 😀

Edited October 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise