Welcome to Washington Jamin Davis LB Kentucky

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

There's no all 22 available, but I'm pretty sure the #1 up top ran some sort of deep clear out route to take the DB away. There are 2 receivers and 2 defenders on that side of the zone, so if I'm Bostic, at SOME point I'm going to glance over and find #2 to adjust my drop. Obviously the 1 DB can't cover both routes so Bostic should have known to find one of those receivers. Worse, it's 3rd and 10 and he doesn't ever drop deeper than 6 yards. That's just situational awareness failure all the way around. He's too old to be making so many bone headed mistakes- and has the nerve to have a C on his jersey. 

 

It doesn't look like he made a mistake on that play.  The 2 receiver ran a deep out, which is in the field side corner's zone.  Bostic is covering a short underneath zone in the middle of the field, so basically he's supposed to cover anything coming up in that seam in front of and between the two deep shells on his side.  In that play, that would have been the slot running the shallow drag across the middle of the field.  Bostic is not in a position to make a play on a deep out from his zone.  So either you put the field side corner in man coverage on the 1 and have that deep safety come up and play that field side deep shell, or the field corner has to hand the 1 off to the deep safety and peel off to cover the 2 running through that shell.

 

In general, when you see something like a long conversion on a throw past the sticks, it's not going to be the fault of the linebacker.  On that play, the fault lies with either the field corner or the safety on that side of the field.  But the pressure also needed to be much better.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Judging from Morgan Moses losing the starting job with the Jets, it sounds like we'd need a RT regardless of if Cosmi had started out at Guard.

 

I'm not sure what happened there, but I'm pretty confident he would have started for us.  He played well the season before.  Cosmi at LT would be an adventure this season too, but at least we'd have maintained continuity on the right side of the line.  Leno is going to have to be a lot better for this line to work out and be an improvement.

[IrepDC]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It doesn't look like he made a mistake on that play.  The 2 receiver ran a deep out, which is in the field side corner's zone.  Bostic is covering a short underneath zone in the middle of the field, so basically he's supposed to cover anything coming up in that seam in front of and between the two deep shells on his side.  In that play, that would have been the slot running the shallow drag across the middle of the field.  Bostic is not in a position to make a play on a deep out from his zone.  So either you put the field side corner in man coverage on the 1 and have that deep safety come up and play that field side deep shell, or the field corner has to hand the 1 off to the deep safety and peel off to cover the 2 running through that shell.

 

In general, when you see something like a long conversion on a throw past the sticks, it's not going to be the fault of the linebacker.  On that play, the fault lies with either the field corner or the safety on that side of the field.  But the pressure also needed to be much better.

 

 

This is good analysis. I went back to look again and got some better shots to explain what happened.

 

Image 1 you actually see the pre snap alignment. Holcomb and the Safety are both blitzing off the edge outside Bostic. 

 

Image 2 you see after the snap the blitz on its way and Bostic opening up to replace the blitzers. It's his job to replace their blitz. The seam should be McCain's(I think that's him deep). The DBs are in something like a 4 shell with the zone blitz underneath.

 

Image 3 you see where my last photos picked up Bostic sitting on the logo. He never fully replaces the blitzers so of course Herbert throws where the blitz came from.

 

I still believe Bostic was supposed to get underneath the #2 since he was replacing the 2 outside blitzers, but we can't be sure how our defense teaches it. 

[CobraCommander]

I don't know how that blitz is supposed to work. The blitzing players are 8 yards away from Herbert and he's already into his drop and looking to that side which is exactly where you expect him to go with the ball. How close were they when he releases the ball?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I don't know how that blitz is supposed to work. The blitzing players are 8 yards away from Herbert and he's already into his drop and looking to that side which is exactly where you expect him to go with the ball. How close were they when he releases the ball?

 

They weren't close, it wasn't an effective blitz.  The RB read it and picked up the extra rusher on that side.  Herbert had ample time and then threw a clean pass.  Basically, C and RG picked up the DT.  LG picked up the blitzing LB Holcomb, and the RB moved across and picked up the S (I think Landon Collins?).

 

I hate the concept of a delayed blitz like that.  It just gives the RB more time to read where he's supposed to go, and forces the DLineman who drops to do more than they should.  It also forces the rest of the defense to rely/pretend on that DLineman as if he were a bonefide coverage guy.

 

I do think some zone blitzes are useful, with a DL dropping.  But I hate that blitz concept.  I'm not a coach or heavily knowledgeable in nuance of this stuff, but from a common sense point of view, there are so many pieces in here that don't benefit each other from a play design standpoint.

[Tress Is The Way]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

They weren't close, it wasn't an effective blitz.  The RB read it and picked up the extra rusher on that side.  Herbert had ample time and then threw a clean pass.  Basically, C and RG picked up the DT.  LG picked up the blitzing LB Holcomb, and the RB moved across and picked up the S (I think Landon Collins?).

 

I hate the concept of a delayed blitz like that.  It just gives the RB more time to read where he's supposed to go, and forces the DLineman who drops to do more than they should.  It also forces the rest of the defense to rely/pretend on that DLineman as if he were a bonefide coverage guy.

 

I do think some zone blitzes are useful, with a DL dropping.  But I hate that blitz concept.  I'm not a coach or heavily knowledgeable in nuance of this stuff, but from a common sense point of view, there are so many pieces in here that don't benefit each other from a play design standpoint.

I don't really like the concept of zone blitzes either. Do we know whose calling the plays and setting the formations for our D? It's usually the Mike but idk if they are trusting Davis with that as of right now.. but if they are, oh boy.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

This is good analysis. I went back to look again and got some better shots to explain what happened.

 

Image 1 you actually see the pre snap alignment. Holcomb and the Safety are both blitzing off the edge outside Bostic. 

 

Image 2 you see after the snap the blitz on its way and Bostic opening up to replace the blitzers. It's his job to replace their blitz. The seam should be McCain's(I think that's him deep). The DBs are in something like a 4 shell with the zone blitz underneath.

 

Image 3 you see where my last photos picked up Bostic sitting on the logo. He never fully replaces the blitzers so of course Herbert throws where the blitz came from.

 

I still believe Bostic was supposed to get underneath the #2 since he was replacing the 2 outside blitzers, but we can't be sure how our defense teaches it. 

 

A fire zone blitz is basically a blitz from a nickel package where you send two blitzers from the same side in order to overload the protection on that side of the formation.  Generally it's your slot defender and the linebacker nearest to him, which is what we did in this case.  And in basically every version of this type of blitz, you have the edge linemen on the opposite side of the blitz drop into a short zone to cover that vacancy of the MIKE's zone, because the MIKE has to come over to cover the other short zone that the blitzing linebacker would normally occupy.  So Bostic's responsibility is a hook zone and that little seam at the front of the two deep shells on his side of the field.  On this play, his job is to cover Keenan Allen running that shallow crossing route and stay in position to make a tackle on him before he can reach the sticks.

 

I don't know the exact coverage responsibilities of the field corner and Bobby McCain.  Sometimes with these blitzes you do cover three shells deep, sometimes the corner plays man on the 1 and the deep safety takes a deep shell on that side of the field.  It looks like cover three to me because the corner is still square to the LoS when the 1 is making his break and he's not bailing, so that would mean he's the one who screwed up by not peeling off the 1 to cover the 2.  Regardless, there was an error committed between that corner and McCain and someone left the 2 uncovered, but that 2 wasn't Bostic's responsibility on this play.

[IrepDC]

@stevemcqueen1 who was Bostic covering in his hook zone? The #1 ran vertical and the #2 ran an out. 

 

If #1 ran a dig, the corner would have passed him off to Bostic, but he ran vertical, taking the corner with him.

 

With the #1 going vertical, taking the corner with him, who would be left for Bostic on that side of the field than the #2?

 

There's 3 defenders and 2 receivers to that side so my thinking in that spot is #1 is gone, find #2. I don't see how sitting on the NFL logo is helping the #1 running 15 yards behind him.

 

If you're right and Bostic is supposed to just sit there, we need a more adaptive zone scheme. If you guess wrong in that scheme, a NFL QB will pick you apart every time. With adaptive zone drops, you don't leave men covering grass on a huge 3rd and 10.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

@stevemcqueen1 who was Bostic covering in his hook zone? The #1 ran vertical and the #2 ran an out. 

 

If #1 ran a dig, the corner would have passed him off to Bostic, but he ran vertical, taking the corner with him.

 

With the #1 going vertical, taking the corner with him, who would be left for Bostic on that side of the field than the #2?

 

There's 3 defenders and 2 receivers to that side so my thinking in that spot is #1 is gone, find #2. I don't see how sitting on the NFL logo is helping the #1 running 15 yards behind him.

 

If you're right and Bostic is supposed to just sit there, we need a more adaptive zone scheme. If you guess wrong in that scheme, a NFL QB will pick you apart every time. With adaptive zone drops, you don't leave men covering grass on a huge 3rd and 10.

 

He's covering #13 running a shallow cross into his zone.  His job will be to close on 13 and stop him short of the sticks if Herbert goes there as he would be the only one in position to make that play.

 

The #1 WR ran a vertical route, looks like a post, and the corner carried him deep.  But it looks like the corner was supposed to be playing a deep cover three shell and he should have handed off the #1 running that post to McCain in order to cover the #2 running that deep out.  Looks like he abandoned his zone and no one was left covering the #2.  I think that breakdown was the corner's fault, but we could have been running a variation of the blitz where that corner was in man coverage and McCain was responsible for that shell.  But based on the footwork of the corner in the stills, I don't think he was in man coverage.  Was that St Juste or Fuller?  I can tell that William Jackson was the boundary corner, but I can't tell which one had the field side.

[IrepDC]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's covering #13 running a shallow cross into his zone.  His job will be to close on 13 and stop him short of the sticks if Herbert goes there as he would be the only one in position to make that play.

 

The #1 WR ran a vertical route, looks like a post, and the corner carried him deep.  But it looks like the corner was supposed to be playing a deep cover three shell and he should have handed off the #1 running that post to McCain in order to cover the #2 running that deep out.  Looks like he abandoned his zone and no one was left covering the #2.  I think that breakdown was the corner's fault, but we could have been running a variation of the blitz where that corner was in man coverage and McCain was responsible for that shell.  But based on the footwork of the corner in the stills, I don't think he was in man coverage.  Was that St Juste or Fuller?  I can tell that William Jackson was the boundary corner, but I can't tell which one had the field side.

On 3rd and 10, I'm pretty sure that 3 yard crossing route is the bait in the play to open up the receivers behind him, but if you want Bostic to play that, fine. St. Juste and McCain have to take the front side #1 and #2 receivers and play it differently also if Bostic isn't helping them. 

 

I'd want Bostic taking any route near the sticks on that side. A dig from the #1 like you described would be his. Or an out from the #2 like we saw would be his. The 3 yard crossing route is something we have to rally to the ball and tackle if it's thrown. That's another conversation. 

 

I get what you are looking for though; St. Juste and McCain would need to adjust for that to have worked.

[CRobi21]

Big 3rd down stop early.

 

Popped Barkley good for a short gain.

 

Other good tackle or 2. He can't be any worse than Bostic or Holcomb. Get him out there.

[moondog]

45 minutes ago, CRobi21 said:

Big 3rd down stop early.

 

Popped Barkley good for a short gain.

 

Other good tackle or 2. He can't be any worse than Bostic or Holcomb. Get him out there.

Bostic is an extreme liability. Even when he doesn’t trip and fall down in coverage he gets smoked by everyone. At least Davis had good coverage the few times I saw him in there today. I’m all for him taking the majority of snaps regardless of down and distance at this point. 
 

Apparenyly Bostic is super smart. But no one on defense seems to have a clue what’s going on anyway so are we really losing anything if Bostic isn’t out there to make sure we are blowing coverages and hoping oppontents’ receivers drop touchdowns so we can win?

[skinny21]

Not that I’m putting too much weight into it, but Davis with another really nice (unheralded) run stop this week.  Positive sign for a guy viewed as more of a coverage guy.

[method man]

17 minutes ago, moondog said:

Bostic is an extreme liability. Even when he doesn’t trip and fall down in coverage he gets smoked by everyone. At least Davis had good coverage the few times I saw him in there today. I’m all for him taking the majority of snaps regardless of down and distance at this point. 
 

Apparenyly Bostic is super smart. But no one on defense seems to have a clue what’s going on anyway so are we really losing anything if Bostic isn’t out there to make sure we are blowing coverages and hoping oppontents’ receivers drop touchdowns so we can win?

 

You saw examples of Bostic being super smart. I remember one play where he pulled in Kam Curl from the secondary up to the line and Kam stuffed Barkley at the line of scrimmage

[Barry.Randolphe]

8 minutes ago, method man said:

 

You saw examples of Bostic being super smart. I remember one play where he pulled in Kam Curl from the secondary up to the line and Kam stuffed Barkley at the line of scrimmage

 

I saw that too....he was on a roll that series making the right calls and blowing up the play

[FootballZombie]

Davis was better this week than last week, but Bostic was unreal at times when he was in charge of the D.

Have to remember that Bostic's alignment changes improve the play and effectiveness of everyone around him, even if he himself is a liability.

 

On a very positive note Davis drew single coverage vs WRs on multiple occasions and did a great job. He even understood giving his man the under route on 3rd down in the red zone, coming up and securing the play short of the sticks. That combination of knowledge and play is absolutely a "flash" and shows why you should be excited about what he can become.

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Davis was better this week than last week, but Bostic was unreal at times when he was in charge of the D.

Have to remember that Bostic's alignment changes improve the play and effectiveness of everyone around him, even if he himself is a liability.

 

On a very positive note Davis drew single coverage vs WRs on multiple occasions and did a great job. He even understood giving his man the under route on 3rd down in the red zone, coming up and securing the play short of the sticks. That combination of knowledge and play is absolutely a "flash" and shows why you should be excited about what he can become.

Sounds like Bostic should just put a headset on and replace JDR

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Sounds like Bostic should just put a headset on and replace JDR

 

Dude was calling out plays 10 secs before the snap.

 

It honestly BLOWS MY MIND the the giants saw a LB remove a Safety from coverage, manually put him directly in the running lane, tell everyone else to stack the line... and then not check out of the play.

 

Sweet Jeebus

 

Clearly he knew the play. There is no reason to take that L. What were they doing? Straight hubris. Clowned themselves

 

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Dude was calling out plays 10 secs before the snap.

 

It honestly BLOWS MY MIND the the giants saw a LB remove a Safety from coverage, manually put him directly in the running lane, tell everyone else to stack the line... and then not check out of the play.

 

Sweet Jeebus

 

Clearly he knew the play. There is no reason to take that L. What were they doing? Straight hubris. Clowned themselves

 

This is why Bostic continues to get re-signed and play. Because he studies. Which I 100% understand the value of. However, he actual play is so much of a liability at times. 

[DWinzit]

Jamin is smart and known to be good at processing, preparing and studying. 

 

As hard as it is to watch Bostic running as though he is stuck in the mud, it is a great learning experience for Davis to watch how he makes the defensive calls.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

Davis made a very good play on the second quarter drive that ended in a NYG field goal, when Shepherd made the crossing catch on 3rd and 8 and Davis was in the right place to make the tackle 2 yards short of the sticks to save a TD.  SOOOO many years we've watched our crap LB's consistently screw up that play and give up the 7 there, was good to see the rook step up.

[moondog]

7 hours ago, method man said:

 

You saw examples of Bostic being super smart. I remember one play where he pulled in Kam Curl from the secondary up to the line and Kam stuffed Barkley at the line of scrimmage

I saw many more examples of him getting absolutely roasted last night and the week before. Listen, I like the guy and value what he brings mentally to the team. But this defense is getting smoked in the passing game through two weeks. So yes, I would rather have Davis in the game more. We may lose something from that mental side but I think we’d be better off with another player in the game that can cover even receivers and has speed. He also didn’t seem to be a liability in the run game as last night he had some nice stops. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[IrepDC]

Don't really need to break down his play this week as it seems more people noticed his play this time around. He continues to be our best LB in coverage and make the best plays in run support.

 

Of our top rookies, though, he continues to see the least playing time. I believe that is because of the responsibilities of his position. As others have already pointed out, Bostic making checks on that drive is something Jamin may not be ready for yet.

 

So the coaches are bringing him along slowly to be able to be the leader of the defense- as his position requires. 

 

We will benefit GREATLY when he gets the mental part down. When he is on the field, you rarely see the guy he's covering get the ball. When they do, he's there for the tackle. In run support, he continues to improve navigating traffic on his way to the ball. 

 

We just have to hope he's ready sooner than later. Bostic and Holcomb in coverage is 9 on 11 football in the offenses favor.

Edited September 17, 2021 by IrepDC

[OtisDriftwood25]

Why are we giving Bostic so much credit for making calls? I don’t have PFF but 50% the game we were in some sort of Cover 3 nickel. Offensive play callers and quarterbacks if they know what you are doing they know how to attack it. Anything 3rd and 7 or longer I want Davis and Curl lining as 2 linebackers.

Edited September 17, 2021 by OtisDriftwood25