Welcome to Washington Jamin Davis LB Kentucky

[IrepDC]

Here is a perfect example of Bostic in the same coverage as I posted earlier. Bostic has a hook to curl on 3rd and 10.

 

In image 1, you see Bostic identify pass and begin his drop. You'll notice him level with the receivers around the "N" of the NFL logo.

 

Image 2, you see the receiver continues getting depth, but Bostic is settling in at the top of the N logo staring at the QB.

 

Image 3, the receiver who began level with Bostic is now not even on the screen, the ball is in the air, and Bostic is still staring at the QB and locking down that N on the logo. I wonder where that receiver went?

 

Image 4, oh there he is, sitting right beyond the first down mark. Bostic is still sitting at 6 yards when he began the play level with the same receiver. This is a theme with Holcomb and Bostic that makes our entire defense catch heat for. They are easily picked on and keep other talented players on defense from having opportunities to shine.

 

This is why I highlighted pictures of Jamin dropping into his zone to actually cover someone.

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Here is a quick example of the difference between Jamin in coverage vs our other LBs. In this play, Jamin has a basic hook to curl zone in the middle. Bostic was getting torched when he had this responsibility all game. Here's why:

 

In image 1, you see the pre snap alignment. Jamin is in where Bostic played the majority of the game.

 

In image 2, you see Jamin has identified a pass play and is actually dropping in his zone towards the nearest threats. Bostic and Holcolmb usually sit flat when this is their assignment while a receiver runs free behind them.

 

In image 3, you see just how much depth Jamin gets. His nearest threats kept getting deeper so he adjusted his drop to match them. Reiterating here our other LBs never seem to do this. He's our best coverage LB already.

 

He will take lumps like any rookie LB so hopefully he just ignores the chatter and keeps working. 

 

 

Thanks for all this. Far better than most of the idiocy from the other posters here.

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Here is a perfect example of Bostic in the same coverage as I posted earlier. Bostic has a hook to curl on 3rd and 10.

 

In image 1, you see Bostic identify pass and begin his drop. You'll notice him level with the receivers around the "N" of the NFL logo.

 

Image 2, you see the receiver continues getting depth, but Bostic is settling in at the top of the N logo staring at the QB.

 

Image 3, the receiver who began level with Bostic is now not even on the screen, the ball is in the air, and Bostic is still staring at the QB and locking down that N on the logo. I wonder where that receiver went?

 

Image 4, oh there he is, sitting right beyond the first down mark. Bostic is still sitting at 6 yards when he began the play level with the same receiver. This is a theme with Holcomb and Bostic that makes our entire defense catch heat for. They are easily picked on and keep other talented players on defense from having opportunities to shine.

 

This is why I highlighted pictures of Jamin dropping into his zone to actually cover someone.

 

Responded to you in the other thread, but here's another reply to your point here:

 

Bostic just diagnoses everything so slowly. He got to a spot and then let Herbert freeze him with his eyes. The problem was Herbert wasn't even looking at Bostic. He was looking outside.

 

His weight distribution is off as well. He looks like he's ready to break onto the in breaking route from the other side of the field. 

 

What was the receiver/DB outside doing on that side? Tough to tell what coverage we're in here without that info as well. It almost looks like that corner to the top of the screen was in man and got totally destroyed and Bostic was supposed to be on that in breaking route from these photos.

 

Other glaring issues with these screen caps: Holcomb looks like he blitzed soft and got blown up. Like he was thinking of blitzing and peeling back but just got rocked and lost balance.

 

And one thing I just don't understand: Chase Young is in coverage. I understand sometimes you do things like that but he seems to be in coverage entirely too often. 

[Koolblue13]

Super disappointed that our LBers are going to be bad again. Holcomb didn’t look like he made a 3rd year progression. Davis is going to need a few years and then be pretty damn good I think, which is typical for a 2nd rd LBer like he should have been. Bostic isn't a starter in this league. HTF he's a captain is telling for how this season is going to go. Good OC/QB combos picking them apart.

 

Frustrating seeing guys I really liked like Bolton or JoK as starters for good teams. 

 

We should be LBer U. 

[Going Commando]

Looks like a fire zone blitz that got picked up and none of the pressure got home and Chase and Bostic are the underneath zones and they got stuck covering grass.  Shouldn't they be dropping to the sticks since it's third and nine?

 

Regardless, that kind of blitz needs to generate pressure to work because of the extra gap in your zones and your underneath zone guys are usually weak in coverage.  Holcomb and/or the slot blitzer needed to get pressure and got stonewalled instead.

[Going Commando]

Actually now that I look at it again, if that was a fire zone blitz then that 2 who ran the out should have been the responsibility of the outside corner, not Bostic.  Chase is handing off the guy running the drag in front of them.  Looks like the outside corner carried the 1 deep and left Bostic hanging covering both the 2 and the shallow dig and that + the lack of pressure = fail.  Look at where the safety is.  He's supposed to be taking that 1 so that the field side corner can peel off the 1 and cover the 2 but he is way the Hell over to the boundary side of the field doubling that huge receiver that I assume is the tight end, and our boundary corner is covering grass.

[Going Commando]

Actually, nope I was wrong.  The underneath safety is playing the right receiver, it's the deep safety who should be taking the 1 so the field corner can cover that out.

 

I can't be certain since I can't see the defensive backs, but it looks like our corners are the ones who ****ed up the coverages.  Bostic should not be covering that 2 running the deep out, he's got the underneath zone on the field side hash.  And again, the other big failure was from the five rushers getting no pressure.  Six man protection but you still expect to win that fairly often when you're front is supposed to be your great strength.  The Chargers knew what was coming.

[Warhead36]

It just sucks that our LBs are still such a huge weakness. I wanted a massive overhaul in the offseason but we basically everyone back and just added Davis to it. At least Davis doesn't appear to be as bad in coverage though, but perhaps we should have drafted JOK instead since he's such a coverage freak(no clue how he did in his first game though).

[Going Commando]

None of our draft picks are going to look good early except maybe Dyami, because they're a bunch of raw athletes and none of them got training wheels roles.  They could have stuck Jamin in an easier WILL role with less reading but they want to groom him for MIKE.  They could have played Cosmi at LG but they want him at RT.  They could start Juice off in the slot but they want him playing outside.  Ron puts his players in a sink or swim position and he runs tests on them, for better or worse.  It's the thing I dislike the most about the way he coaches, he sets players up to fail instead of nurturing confidence and development, but if they survive their baptism by fire then they are already in their long term position.

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

None of our draft picks are going to look good early except maybe Dyami, because they're a bunch of raw athletes and none of them got training wheels roles.  They could have stuck Jamin in an easier WILL role with less reading but they want to groom him for MIKE.  They could have played Cosmi at LG but they want him at RT.  They could start Juice off in the slot but they want him playing outside.  Ron puts his players in a sink or swim position and he runs tests on them, for better or worse.  It's the thing I dislike the most about the way he coaches, he sets players up to fail instead of nurturing confidence and development, but if they survive their baptism by fire then they are already in their long term position.

I wonder if that's any different from what he did in Carolina. You look at the Panthers and they had some pretty good mid round picks develop into quality players(Josh Norman, James Bradberry to name a couple). But I have no idea if those guys were thrust into starting roles early.

 

It is strange how we have so many rookies playing premium roles for a team that is expected to win(granted Brown is really only starting because of the Samuel injury but still, you'd think we could go with someone like Sims in that role).

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

9 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Looks like a bit of a chess match between the coordinators. Our defense stacked the strong side of the offense, taking away their leverage, so LA brings a motion in that direction to get us overcommitted, then counters back weak side where they now have leverage.

 

That OC comes from the Sean Payton tree, and you could tell he's got that same type of intentional and creative offense. He had an awesome gameplan and clearly studied all of our defenses tendencies. 

 

 

 

But once the motion happens, shouldn't the LB's adjust where they are in the box?

 

Pre-motion, he's fine.  After the motion, he's out of position.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

46 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

None of our draft picks are going to look good early except maybe Dyami, because they're a bunch of raw athletes and none of them got training wheels roles.  They could have stuck Jamin in an easier WILL role with less reading but they want to groom him for MIKE.  They could have played Cosmi at LG but they want him at RT.  They could start Juice off in the slot but they want him playing outside.  Ron puts his players in a sink or swim position and he runs tests on them, for better or worse.  It's the thing I dislike the most about the way he coaches, he sets players up to fail instead of nurturing confidence and development, but if they survive their baptism by fire then they are already in their long term position.

 

Judging from Morgan Moses losing the starting job with the Jets, it sounds like we'd need a RT regardless of if Cosmi had started out at Guard.

[Tress Is The Way]

54 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

None of our draft picks are going to look good early except maybe Dyami, because they're a bunch of raw athletes and none of them got training wheels roles.  They could have stuck Jamin in an easier WILL role with less reading but they want to groom him for MIKE.  They could have played Cosmi at LG but they want him at RT.  They could start Juice off in the slot but they want him playing outside.  Ron puts his players in a sink or swim position and he runs tests on them, for better or worse.  It's the thing I dislike the most about the way he coaches, he sets players up to fail instead of nurturing confidence and development, but if they survive their baptism by fire then they are already in their long term position.

That's the biggest difference between the regime versus the old regime. Jay Gruden was ALL about nurturing confidence. In my opinion it should be sink or swim, you're in the NFL now, either nut up or shut up.

[NewCliche21]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

And one thing I just don't understand: Chase Young is in coverage. I understand sometimes you do things like that but he seems to be in coverage entirely too often. 

 

I thought that this new defense was specifically designed to exactly NOT do this.  Why 99 and 90 are not ALWAYS rushing the passer is completely beyond me.

[Tress Is The Way]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I thought that this new defense was specifically designed to exactly NOT do this.  Why 99 and 90 are not ALWAYS rushing the passer is completely beyond me.

It is because of the zone block scheme, DEs drop into coverage like that to attempt to disrupt the play in front of them and confuse the offensive lineman. DIdn't work out, but you will see that from time to time. You can't simply rush 100% of the time.

Edited September 14, 2021 by ZarG3

[IrepDC]

5 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I thought that this new defense was specifically designed to exactly NOT do this.  Why 99 and 90 are not ALWAYS rushing the passer is completely beyond me.

We got way too cute week 1. There were a lot of stunts and weird rushes that we simply didn't have time for the way the Chargers were attacking us. Seeing 99 in coverage on 3rd and long is very disappointing.

[IrepDC]

26 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

But once the motion happens, shouldn't the LB's adjust where they are in the box?

 

Pre-motion, he's fine.  After the motion, he's out of position.

Yeah there should have been an adjustment by the entire defense, because to me, that was an obvious misdirection play to out leverage us backside. But it would depend on what our players are coached to do. Our defense maybe values taking away the strong side, I don't know. 

[Warhead36]

I can understand occasionally dropping Sweat into coverage because he has such long arms he can disrupt passes. Young I want rushing the passer 100% of the time on obvious passing downs.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I can understand occasionally dropping Sweat into coverage because he has such long arms he can disrupt passes. Young I want rushing the passer 100% of the time on obvious passing downs.

 

Fire zone blitzes serve a purpose.  I think they work when you really know a QB's tendencies.  The Edge players shouldn't be considered "in coverage" per se, more of a occupy the throwing lane to the Hot Route that the QB wants to hit in 1.5 seconds cause he sees a big blitz coming.

 

Problems arise, imo, when DC's get too cute with the Edge players drop or assignment.  Or when the overloaded blitz can't get there.

 

For some of this, I'd imagine you call a fire zone blitz, and which Edge drops into coverage depends on which side of the formation they think the Hot Route will be.

[Going Commando]

49 minutes ago, ZarG3 said:

It is because of the zone block scheme, DEs drop into coverage like that to attempt to disrupt the play in front of them and confuse the offensive lineman. DIdn't work out, but you will see that from time to time. You can't simply rush 100% of the time.

 

This was a passing play, not a run play.  You can certainly have your ends rush every passing down.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

For some of this, I'd imagine you call a fire zone blitz, and which Edge drops into coverage depends on which side of the formation they think the Hot Route will be.

 

It's based on where the blitzing slot defender is lined up since that will determine the overload side and the rush lanes.

 

I think this is something Del Rio used to do in Denver with TJ Ward blitzing from the slot.  Probably works a lot better when your corners are awesome like theirs were.

Blitzes like that also work better when the opposing QB and C aren't super smart.  Linsley figured out what we were doing and set the protection right and Herbert knew what the coverage would do.

[XxSpearheadxX]

deep breaths everyone. We got creamed the first game and only barely ended up losing. 

 

I know most people calling Jamin a bust are just trolling, for those of you who aren't - deep breaths. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[KDawg]

ZarG, it’s a zone blitz. Not a zone block. And we do it too often.

[IrepDC]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

What was the receiver/DB outside doing on that side? Tough to tell what coverage we're in here without that info as well. It almost looks like that corner to the top of the screen was in man and got totally destroyed and Bostic was supposed to be on that in breaking route from these photos.

There's no all 22 available, but I'm pretty sure the #1 up top ran some sort of deep clear out route to take the DB away. There are 2 receivers and 2 defenders on that side of the zone, so if I'm Bostic, at SOME point I'm going to glance over and find #2 to adjust my drop. Obviously the 1 DB can't cover both routes so Bostic should have known to find one of those receivers. Worse, it's 3rd and 10 and he doesn't ever drop deeper than 6 yards. That's just situational awareness failure all the way around. He's too old to be making so many bone headed mistakes- and has the nerve to have a C on his jersey. 

[NewCliche21]

1 hour ago, ZarG3 said:

It is because of the zone block scheme, DEs drop into coverage like that to attempt to disrupt the play in front of them and confuse the offensive lineman. DIdn't work out, but you will see that from time to time. You can't simply rush 100% of the time.

 

We have a pretty long/crap history of dropping rushers, especially DE's who are 3- or 4-point stance guys, into coverage.  It doesn't confuse anyone but us.