Welcome to Washington Jamin Davis LB Kentucky

[Koolblue13]

Considering we don't have a suitable MIKE and Holcomb is pretty much locked in at WILL, it just makes sense that Davis is getting the lions share of reps.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Considering we don't have a suitable MIKE and Holcomb is pretty much locked in at WILL, it just makes sense that Davis is getting the lions share of reps.

 

I'm expecting a lot of flip flopping between Davis and Bostic at MIKE over the summer.  I wouldn't be surprised if mandatory OTA's has Bostic there and Davis at SAM, and then it flips again when Training Camp starts, then again a few days into it.  Who starts where the 1st preseason game might be the first time we've got a good idea, unless one player just starts running away with their position.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Cole Holcomb is enormous compared to his first rookie camp. It is absolutely amazing the physical shape they are in. 

 

edit: More like Swole Holcomb  

Edited June 3, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Cole Holcomb is enormous compared to his first rookie camp. It is absolutely amazing the physical shape they are in. 

 

edit: More like Swole Holcomb  

 

Swolecomb

 

Actually he's LOST a LOT of weight since his rookie season.

This is a picture of him, during his rookie training camp.

Hard to tell exactly how much weight, since he's wearing a costume at the Training Camp Talent show, but still he's shed some pounds

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

That makes sense but the way I would do it is to flip them and put Hudson at SLB and Holcomb at WLB.  To me, Hudson's best skill is blitzing and playing downhill rather than chasing from the backside plus I feel like TEs are what I would trust him to cover the most.  Holcomb's superior speed makes him a better fit for a weakside role IMO.  I'd trust him to cover backs and slots more than Hudson.

 

 

Isn't Hudson a bit small for a Sam? Yeah a Sam backer needs to be able to cover TEs but they also need to be able to set the edge well in the run game, stack and shed blocks at the LOS, and be able to rush the passer. I have a hard time seeing a 6'0 220lb guy doing that stuff. He'd get absolutely washed out on running plays and he isn't much of a pass rusher (actual pass rushing, not blitzing).

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Isn't Hudson a bit small for a Sam? Yeah a Sam backer needs to be able to cover TEs but they also need to be able to set the edge well in the run game, stack and shed blocks at the LOS, and be able to rush the passer. I have a hard time seeing a 6'0 220lb guy doing that stuff. He'd get absolutely washed out on running plays and he isn't much of a pass rusher (actual pass rushing, not blitzing).

 

Yes and no?  Depends on the scheme/assignments/playcall/etc etc.  You can swap who has contain responsibilities on the outside, to force the run back inside.  A safety on the strong side of the formation might be tasked with coming down and forcing the RB to cutback into the heart of the defense.  Hudson could also muck things up on the edge by taking the legs out of the lead blocker early.  That could work on occasion.

 

But honestly, I don't think we're in 4-3 enough to really matter.  If Hudson has a positive effect on the other plays, then they can live with some less effective edge setting.  If they start calling those plays more frequently then you switch up some assignments.  Have Hudson run blitz the C gap with the DE loop outside to take run contain.  There are options.  But having to do those options doesn't matter if Hudson isn't effective in his other roles as SAM.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Isn't Hudson a bit small for a Sam? Yeah a Sam backer needs to be able to cover TEs but they also need to be able to set the edge well in the run game, stack and shed blocks at the LOS, and be able to rush the passer. I have a hard time seeing a 6'0 220lb guy doing that stuff. He'd get absolutely washed out on running plays and he isn't much of a pass rusher (actual pass rushing, not blitzing).

 

Holcomb is small too though.  He's only about 6'1 230.  Davis is our only big linebacker now that Harvey-Clemons was released.  Even Toney is pretty average sized.

 

Our defense trends small but the speed is elite now.

 

On Hudson: looking at his highlights from the Seahawks game, and it looks like the main role he played was to follow the RB.  Sometimes he played weakside, sometimes strongside, sometimes in the stack, sometimes on the line, and sometimes in the slot.  Didn't really seem to have a defined role yet other than on punt and kickoff coverage teams.  His alignment will likely depend on if the offense is in shotgun or single back formations.  But it does look like he had more coverage responsibility than I thought.  It would make him a lot easier to play if he could man cover backs and slots since he could be interchangeable.  But it also looked like he played zone in his highlights so I wouldn't go as far as to say he definitely has man coverage chops.

[Commander Wolffe]

@stevemcqueen1Looks like Hudson had some success covering a running back two days ago..

 

 

 

I haven't seen or heard anything about Shaka taking reps at SLB yet. I did read up on his linebacker background and the Bruce Irvin comparison. I assume getting acclimated with pass rush responsibilities was the primary focus given he wouldn't be put out in space much? What if we went Shaka, Davis, Hudson with Holocomb in rotation at all the positions? We have good options however it shakes out.  

Edited June 3, 2021 by SkinsFootball

[Skinsinparadise]

 

And according to Del Rio, those two players — 2020 second-overall choice Chase Young and 2021 19th-overall pick Jamin Davis — share a very key quality.

Last summer, Young's devoted approach to football was just as noticeable as his outlandish skill set. At training camp, he'd do push-ups after substandard reps (no one was asking or telling him to do so, by the way) and he'd also hit extra sprints after practice, among other things. 

Now, while Davis hasn't resorted to any sort of self-punishment (yet) during his time at Washington's OTAs, he's still made an impression on his new boss.

"Much like Chase, he's been all business," Del Rio said about Davis following Wednesday's open-to-the-media session. "That's what we're seeing out of Jamin.

"He’s developing, learning the system and giving great effort every day while being a good teammate. These are all positive signs when getting started."

 

 

If you're looking for an interesting sign about the 19th overall selection, meanwhile, then consider this: He's lined up at the middle linebacker spot in both of the public OTAs thus far, with Cole Holcomb and Jon Bostic flanking him.

 

That wasn't necessarily the expectation for Davis when he was snapped up in late April, and it doesn't necessarily mean that's where he'll be for Week 1, either. However, the fact that the coaches are asking Davis to handle that responsibility, even if it's just at this point of the calendar, speaks to what they think of his abilities.

 

Fortunately, Ron Rivera also literally spoke to Davis' abilities on Wednesday, and like Del Rio, he's enjoying the initial progress.

"He's calling the huddles right now, he's setting the front for us, he's helping the checks," Rivera said. "He's learning that part. Every practice seems to be an improvement for him as far as that part of it."

There's still much for Davis to learn; he hasn't had to fill a gap and tackle a running back yet, for example, and there are many different coverages he'll need to master in order to be a difference-maker in the passing game, which would do wonders for the overall defense.

Those kinds of major hurdles, though, feel much less significant when the player being asked to clear them possesses a serious mindset — and Del Rio believes Davis already has that type of mentality.

"It starts with that person being somebody that's made of the right stuff, and he certainly appears to be that," Del Rio said.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

When Davis gets up to speed, I would think Hudson would be the one to come off in sub packages.  I could be way off, but my sense was that he is more of a blitzer and downhill thumper and isn't really a coverage linebacker.  I could be misremembering, but I thought Holcomb was supposed to be our coverage specialist among the LBers.

 

Just messing around and watched part of three different games starring at the linebackers.    Based on those....

 

A. Looks like Bostic is the almost constant LB kept in for 2 LB sets.  

B.  Bostic seems to play on the left (from the defense's point of view) in those 2 LB sets -- strong side

C.  The other LB who is just about always playing on the right weakside is often Holcomb in 2 LB sets but he's not a constant on the field like it was with Bostic, since sometimes it was Hudson, sometimes Pierre-Louis

D.  As we know the 2 LB set is more important to digest than 3 LBs.  They much more often are in nickel/2 LB sets

E.  3 LB sets towards the end of the season -- Holcomb at SLB, Bostic MLB, Hudson WLB

F. In the Eagles game I saw Hudson for a change rush out of the strong side which is rare for him -- or at least it was rare in the games I watched.   The last clip below I show that. 

 

On another note to double down on what I said some on the draft thread -- all three major LBs that most of us touted as possibilities here (Jamin, Zaven, JOK) but just to different degrees, I liked them all as pass rushers.  I think Jamin will be a real weapon on that front.  I forgot on what podcast I heard it but on one of them it was said they heard the Kentucky coaching staff at one point considered grooming Jamin as an edge rusher.  Not sure if that was 3-4 LB or 4-3 edge.  Watching some of Jamin's college games, while they didn't rush him much, I was impressed with his motor and slipperiness when he did rush.

 

I spent some time watching our LBs rush the passer during the draft season.  Yawn.  Bostic isn't good at it IMO.  Neither is Holcomb.   I didn't see enough to judge Hudson but I do recall liking his motor on that front at Michigan. Hudson though with his short arms might have limits.  It's not that I think Jamin is the next Devin White as a rusher but I do think he can be a force on that front.  And Del Rio likes to rush his linebackers.  From what I've seen he's not a big corner blitz guy like Gregg Williams was.  But Del Rio likes the double A blitz among other things with his linebackers.  I think he will finally have a dude who can get home on some of those rushes. 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

I’m trying to temper my expectations, and I know it might not be where he plays in the long run, but I can’t express how excited I’ll be if Davis becomes a stud MLB for us.  Would be such a massive addition to this D.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And according to Del Rio, those two players — 2020 second-overall choice Chase Young and 2021 19th-overall pick Jamin Davis — share a very key quality.

Last summer, Young's devoted approach to football was just as noticeable as his outlandish skill set. At training camp, he'd do push-ups after substandard reps (no one was asking or telling him to do so, by the way) and he'd also hit extra sprints after practice, among other things. 

Now, while Davis hasn't resorted to any sort of self-punishment (yet) during his time at Washington's OTAs, he's still made an impression on his new boss.

"Much like Chase, he's been all business," Del Rio said about Davis following Wednesday's open-to-the-media session. "That's what we're seeing out of Jamin.

"He’s developing, learning the system and giving great effort every day while being a good teammate. These are all positive signs when getting started."

 

 

If you're looking for an interesting sign about the 19th overall selection, meanwhile, then consider this: He's lined up at the middle linebacker spot in both of the public OTAs thus far, with Cole Holcomb and Jon Bostic flanking him.

 

That wasn't necessarily the expectation for Davis when he was snapped up in late April, and it doesn't necessarily mean that's where he'll be for Week 1, either. However, the fact that the coaches are asking Davis to handle that responsibility, even if it's just at this point of the calendar, speaks to what they think of his abilities.

 

Fortunately, Ron Rivera also literally spoke to Davis' abilities on Wednesday, and like Del Rio, he's enjoying the initial progress.

"He's calling the huddles right now, he's setting the front for us, he's helping the checks," Rivera said. "He's learning that part. Every practice seems to be an improvement for him as far as that part of it."

There's still much for Davis to learn; he hasn't had to fill a gap and tackle a running back yet, for example, and there are many different coverages he'll need to master in order to be a difference-maker in the passing game, which would do wonders for the overall defense.

Those kinds of major hurdles, though, feel much less significant when the player being asked to clear them possesses a serious mindset — and Del Rio believes Davis already has that type of mentality.

"It starts with that person being somebody that's made of the right stuff, and he certainly appears to be that," Del Rio said.

 

It's seems extremely rare that you find NFL players that have the combination of Top Tier talent, AND tremendous work ethic.

Usually it's one or the other.

The lesser talented players have to work extra hard to compete with the more talented ones.

While the extremely talented ones seem to get lazy, and rely on their natural talent, and not work real hard to improve their craft.

Meanwhile, we seem to have found at least 3 young gems that contain both of those qualities at very high levels.

Makes you think "Watch out, NFL"

 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Parsons really does seem like a POS. What a waste. 
 

Regarding Jamin, if we plays Mike, who are our other starters in the base 4-3? Holcomb at SAM and Hudson at Will?
 

 

 

More than any position, I am not sure about this one.  Ditto there is so much mixed messages coming from reporters who cover the team as to this spot versus some others. 

 

Supposedly they like Holcomb.  And then, some beat guys have said that they heard the coaches were pleased with Bostic play towards the end of the season -- that he improved from his slow start.  Some say they also like how Hudson came along, too.

 

Not sure how it all washes up.   Also some who covered the team said they noticed last camp too the coaches like to mix it up as for where they play players during camp because they want flexibility during the season if needed and or they just want to see if certain players can do it.     I recall leading up to the draft it was said as for the LB spot they preferred one who can play multiple spots. 

 

If I had to guess it right now I'd say in 3 LB sets Holcomb SLB, Bostic MLB, J. Davis WLB.  The 2 LB sets which is more important, I wonder if that's Davis and Holcomb with Davis assuming the old Bostic spot as for playing the strong side?  But nothing really would surprise me. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Vanguard]

16 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Swolecomb

 

Actually he's LOST a LOT of weight since his rookie season.

This is a picture of him, during his rookie training camp.

Hard to tell exactly how much weight, since he's wearing a costume at the Training Camp Talent show, but still he's shed some pounds

 

 

Id pay to see his Ryan impression.  This guy 😂........

[FuriousD]

18 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

It's seems extremely rare that you find NFL players that have the combination of Top Tier talent, AND tremendous work ethic.

Usually it's one or the other.

Becomes easier to understand why RR would say (right after the draft) that Davis was the top defender on their board.  The knuckleheads were never on the board to begin with... 

[Malapropismic Depository]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And then, some beat guys have said that they heard the coaches were pleased with Bostic play towards the end of the season -- that he improved from his slow start. 
 

 

 

If true, then Bostic picked the wrong end of his career, to start blooming.

[mistertim]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

More than any position, I am not sure about this one.  Ditto there is so much mixed messages coming from reporters who cover the team as to this spot versus some others. 

 

Supposedly they like Holcomb.  And then, some beat guys have said that they heard the coaches were pleased with Bostic play towards the end of the season -- that he improved from his slow start.  Some say they also like how Hudson came along, too.

 

Not sure how it all washes up.   Also some who covered the team said they noticed last camp too the coaches like to mix it up as for where they play players during camp because they want flexibility during the season if needed and or they just want to see if certain players can do it.     I recall leading up to the draft it was said as for the LB spot they preferred one who can play multiple spots. 

 

If I had to guess it right now I'd say in 3 LB sets Holcomb SLB, Bostic MLB, J. Davis WLB.  The 2 LB sets which is more important, I wonder if that's Davis and Holcomb with Davis assuming the old Bostic spot as for playing the strong side?  But nothing really would surprise me. 

 

I still find Bostic being on the field so much completely puzzling. I guess they just really didn't have anyone else. Dude was pretty terrible. And if he improved near the end of the season it must have been literally the last game because he still managed to garner a "meh" 57.6 PFF score in coverage and a "why is this guy even on a team?" 43.9 score in run defense. 

[Warhead36]

I'm not too worried if he plays MLB or not in a base scheme because we're so rarely in base(not just us but the league as a whole is in nickel a LOT more since offenses are in 3 WR all the time).

 

My hope is that Davis and Holcomb can develop into solid(at least)starting LBs for when we're in nickel(which again is a lot of the time).

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I still find Bostic being on the field so much completely puzzling. I guess they just really didn't have anyone else. Dude was pretty terrible. And if he improved near the end of the season it must have been literally the last game because he still managed to garner a "meh" 57.6 PFF score in coverage and a "why is this guy even on a team?" 43.9 score in run defense. 

 

I am not a Bostic guy.  But having said that, I post my share of PFF ratings but I don't always agree with their take.  For example they really like Bostic as a pass rusher for the most part.  I don't.  He ended up with one sack and one QB hit which sounds about right to me based on what I watched.  Judging purely on PFF scores, he's had an up and down career.  His highs have never been really high but he's had some decent PFF scores in the mix over the years especially as a run stopper.   

 

 I didn't bother to look at his PFF scores game by game to see if it backs the narrative that he improved towards the end of the season until I did it just now.   Looks like for the most part PFF backs that up.  A key metric for a MLB is run stopping.   Some of his best games on that front were at the end at least by PFF metrics.   75, 73, 64.   2 of his best 3 pass rush grades came at the end.  I know some on the draft thread say pass rush is irrelevant from our LBs but it clearly isn't irrelevant to Del Rio. 

 

They give him a good grade overall, about a 77, as a tackler but at the same time give him an overall bad grade against the run.  So I gather they think he's bad at diagnosing plays and is out of position too much but when he does get his arms around a player, he's good at bringing them down.   Hudson for example as a tackler got a pedestrian 54.7.   Holcomb got a 70.6.

 

I'd trust Del Rio and Rivera, ex-LBs if they felt Bostic came on stronger at the end.  Everything of course is relative.  Like you say, they didn't really have anyone else.  It's not like that LB room is brimming with All Pros.  

 

But yeah it was hard to miss that Bostic was a mainstay at least from what I watched in 2 LB sets.  It could be partly about his ability to call the defense.  I've heard he's a smart dude and really vocal so maybe that's part of it?    

Edited June 3, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

22 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

@Stefanskins I have to think that the NFL has grown up enough today where Phillips wouldn't get drafted any more.  But I wouldn't bet anything of value on it.

 

I'd like to believe this but we saw Antonio Brown in the Super Bowl.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

It's seems extremely rare that you find NFL players that have the combination of Top Tier talent, AND tremendous work ethic.

Usually it's one or the other.

The lesser talented players have to work extra hard to compete with the more talented ones.

While the extremely talented ones seem to get lazy, and rely on their natural talent, and not work real hard to improve their craft.

Meanwhile, we seem to have found at least 3 young gems that contain both of those qualities at very high levels.

Makes you think "Watch out, NFL"

 

 

One of the things that struck me when listening to the rap about Davis from his coaches was about his incremental progress.  He isn't that experienced but they found him progressing incrementally and he played his best ball at the end of the season. And they thought he was a sponge and worked incredibly hard.  So that was one of their sells about his future.  

[Berggy9598]

7 hours ago, SkinsFootball said:

@stevemcqueen1Looks like Hudson had some success covering a running back two days ago..

 

 

 

I haven't seen or heard anything about Shaka taking reps at SLB yet. I did read up on his linebacker background and the Bruce Irvin comparison. I assume getting acclimated with pass rush responsibilities was the primary focus given he wouldn't be put out in space much? What if we went Shaka, Davis, Hudson with Holocomb in rotation at all the positions? We have good options however it shakes out.  

Neither Toney nor Hudson are anywhere near as good as Holcomb so I imagine he'll be on the field a lot more than them. I'd be surprised if it didn't end up with Davis at will, Bostic at mike and Holcomb at sam. That's our best three with some distance between 3 and 4 imo. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

2 hours ago, Vanguard said:

Id pay to see his Ryan impression.  This guy 😂........

 

[Commander Wolffe]

@Berggy9598 I most likely agree. I also think it's closer then you and I'm open to exploring possibilities with Bostic not on the field. 

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

One of the things that struck me when listening to the rap about Davis from his coaches was about his incremental progress.  He isn't that experienced but they found him progressing incrementally and he played his best ball at the end of the season. And they thought he was a sponge and worked incredibly hard.  So that was one of their sells about his future.  

 

I think, if I'm being objective, that I think Jamin has a super high ceiling, but isn't going to be a world beater this year. I'm sure he will contribute, but I just don't see the DROY potential. I think that before he's a true blue chip impact player, he needs at least a year's NFL experience, and experience within the system. And there is nothing wrong with that. I still expect our defense to make a big jump. Chase may double his sack total. Ioannidis is coming back. Our #1 CB is much improved, as is depth throughout the secondary.