Welcome to Washington Jamin Davis LB Kentucky

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think, if I'm being objective, that I think Jamin has a super high ceiling, but isn't going to be a world beater this year. I'm sure he will contribute, but I just don't see the DROY potential. I think that before he's a true blue chip impact player, he needs at least a year's NFL experience, and experience within the system. And there is nothing wrong with that. I still expect our defense to make a big jump. Chase may double his sack total. Ioannidis is coming back. Our #1 CB is much improved, as is depth throughout the secondary. 

 

As you know among others I was a huge Chase guy so I expected things fast from him.  I was probably the biggest Jamin guy or close enough on the draft thread but nowhere to the same degree I was with Chase.  I honestly don't have a good feel for how quickly he'd be good.  I think it somewhat depends on his spot.  I think he's more of a natural weakside LB.  If he plays Mike and calls the plays I think the adjustment will take longer.

 

Where he could hit the ground fast IMO is for these reasons.  I think he does 4 things very naturally.

 

A.  Sideline to sideline speed/range

 

B.  His open field tackling is excellent IMO.  the sideline to sideline movement and open tackling are the main reasons why I liked him over Zaven for this team.  I think we got the D line to keep him clean. I don't think he's great at shedding to make tackles but I think he's a stud at tackling when he's clean.  

 

C.  I think he's a sneaky good pass rusher.  And yeah despite a few (I know you weren't one of them or for that matter anyone posting on this thread) who said on the draft thread its irrelevant whether our LBs can rush but if you watch this scheme more closely, its big time relevant. 

 

D.  I think he's a natural in pass coverage, good instincts, with the speed to keep up with RBs -- wheel routes, follow TEs, etc.

 

His weakness IMO is diagnosing plays quickly and shedding.  I think he has potential on both fronts though.  I think once he conquers those 2 things, he could be one of the better LBs in the league.  

 

Like you, I wanted JOK but Jamin was next in line for me.  They are two different type of players though.  As for Parsons, I recall you were really high on him.  I liked him as a player too especially in pass rush but I didn't talk about him much because I never thought with his character issues he'd be in play though I said I'd leave it to the FO to figure it out and trust it one way or another.  Having said that, I think those on this thread who are already dancing on Parsons' grave are premature.  We don't know he's a bust yet.  I hope he will be.  

 

But I'll use a point about Parsons to hype Jamin.  I posted this on the draft thread at the time when I heard one draft podcaster say he checked Parsons out character wise with someone who knows him at Penn State and that dude assured him the character concerns are overblown but at the same time their concern about Parsons was what happens to him once he gets his big payday?  They seemed to think it could go to his head based on what kind of dude he is.  He's described as extremely high on himself, big ego.   When you listen to the rap on Jamin, military parents, super humble kid, great teammate, works hard.  McLaurin type of intangibles.  Everything being equal, I bet on players like that to succeed. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think, if I'm being objective, that I think Jamin has a super high ceiling, but isn't going to be a world beater this year. I'm sure he will contribute, but I just don't see the DROY potential. I think that before he's a true blue chip impact player, he needs at least a year's NFL experience, and experience within the system. And there is nothing wrong with that. I still expect our defense to make a big jump. Chase may double his sack total. Ioannidis is coming back. Our #1 CB is much improved, as is depth throughout the secondary. 

 

I don't think he'll be an impact player this year either.  I don't think the diagnostic skills and instincts are their yet either, and I think his coverages are going to be very limited this year.  But this situation was his best bet in the entire league IMO.  If he doesn't work out here, then it just wasn't going to happen because nowhere else offered a better mix of teaching, scheme fit, and opportunity for early playing time in a low pressure situation.  Like I said before, Jamin can be a good pick without necessarily being the best pick.

 

I think it'll be clear by the end of the season Najee was the best pick, and not just for us but for a lot of the teams that passed on him.  Supposedly the Steelers have been blown away by him and he already looks like he's going to be a star.  I'd throw Etienne into the mix too, but I'm not sure anywhere else could replicate the success he might have in Jacksonville due to the unique backfield continuity they were able to get from picking Lawrence too.  It's like they imported an entire potent offense in one round and it's going to be easy for them to build and scheme now.

 

I think our secondary is going to be dominant this year.  Not as good as Green Bay's, but top tier.  That's the part of the team that has come together shockingly fast, even more so than the WR group.  Fuller, Jackson, Moreland, St Juste, Collins, Forrest, McCain, Curl, Reeves, Johnson is the strongest ten man group I can ever remember us having.  Not a single weak link and that's what matters for a secondary.  We're probably going to cut someone good and hope they make it to the PS, and Forrest is the common sense choice for that but he keeps making big plays in camp and is making himself impossible to cut.

 

The secondary is the position group I'm most excited about for next season.  I think they're going to put our defense over the top.  And I think you combine what they do with what the DL can do and it's going to be a pretty easy year for the LBers.

 

And I think it's also a good sign for Jamin that he's getting so much MIKE work right now.  Even if he can't totally handle it right now, it means the staff is grooming him for command of the defense.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Having said that, I think those on this thread who are already dancing on Parsons' grave are premature.  We don't know he's a bust yet.  I hope he will be.  

 

He's talented for sure.  I think his career trajectory will be have a few good seasons on his rookie deal and then flaming out because of how combustible he is.  But he's not as good as he thinks he is, and I also don't think that defense gets much better with him.  They didn't need another talented LBer with a massive ego.  And he's going to be poisonous to their team culture.  I guess they thought their defense needed some swagger given how unbelievably soft they were.  But when they had success, it was through that high powered offense they built.  And that offense had a good blue collar culture of toughness and no sense of entitlement--their linemen were the real stars and their QB was a high character mid round pick.  Parsons is like the polar opposite of Dak Prescott.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll add one more thing on Jamin.  Part of why I hyped him some on the draft thread is because how this defense seems to get destroyed on RB screens and to some extent outside zone.    You toss a quick swing pass or have your back get to the edge/around the numbers on this defense and big plays tend to happen.  I think Jamin is the perfect weapon to shut that down. Side line to side line speed and open field tackling. 

 

I showed that on the draft thread, showcasing some plays like that from Tampa, when I pushed Jamin.  Fournette heading into that game was struggiling but he looked like Walter Payton at times against our D.   Here's an example of just a handoff to our own now Curtis Samuel.  I put the frames sequence to sequence.  Bostic overshot the play.  Holcomb's assignment was on the other side of the field. 

 

The larger point though is no one really had catch up speed (granted Samuel is really really fast) and Samuel slowed down at times to make cuts.  But more on point, our secondary in this case did a poor job of open field tackling.  It's a different skill IMO to open field tackle versus tackiling down hill.   In the open field the player has more forward momentum typically and typically more space to juke the defender.   Jamin's ability to tackle guys in open field when they are on the move is what struck me the most about him as a run defender. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's talented for sure.  I think his career trajectory will be have a few good seasons on his rookie deal and then flaming out because of how combustible he is.  But he's not as good as he thinks he is, and I also don't think that defense gets much better with him.  They didn't need another talented LBer with a massive ego.  And he's going to be poisonous to their team culture.  I guess they thought their defense needed some swagger given how unbelievably soft they were.  But when they had success, it was through that high powered offense they built.  And that offense had a good blue collar culture of toughness and no sense of entitlement--their linemen were the real stars and their QB was a high character mid round pick.  Parsons is like the polar opposite of Dak Prescott.

 

Agree.  And I'd add it's somewhat gone under the radar that they doubled down on gambiling on character by also drafting Kelvin Joseph in the next round.  As for Parson's year swagger is the right word for how he comes across.  I hope he busts.  I doubted he was in play here.  Will see how it plays out but this FO certainly put a high emphasis on intangibles/character in this draft along with athleticism (for the most part).  When I listen to podcasts from former coaches of these players or read articles about them -- they almost all sound alike -- great teammate, great guy, hard worker, etc.

 

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/01/dallas-cowboys-2021-nfl-draft-micah-parsons-kelvin-joseph-josh-ball/

The Dallas Cowboys and owner Jerry Jones have never shied away from gambling on players with character concerns. They’re not the only team to give second chances to players but they seem to find it a market inefficiency in the talent acquisition business. This year is no different.

First-round pick Micah Parsons was named (but not the defendant) in a lawsuit by a former Penn State teammate that alleged hazing and sexual assault. Kelvin Joseph was only available in the second round because of dust-ups with two different coaching staffs in college, and being asked to leave LSU. Pick No. 138 is a different kind of concern. Offensive tackle Josh Ball was removed from Florida State University after being found guilty of dating violence, something the victim said occurred 11 different times.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Because of our offense being able to score points faster and earlier, I agree with Steve that our LBers will be protected. Teams shouldn't be able to live in the middle of our defense, without paying for it and they'll need to try and push the ball down field. 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  I honestly don't have a good feel for how quickly he'd be good.  I think it somewhat depends on his spot.  I think he's more of a natural weakside LB.  If he plays Mike and calls the plays I think the adjustment will take longer.

 

C.  I think he's a sneaky good pass rusher.  And yeah despite a few (I know you weren't one of them or for that matter anyone posting on this thread) who said on the draft thread its irrelevant whether our LBs can rush but if you watch this scheme more closely, its big time relevant. 

I agree with both of your points here. I think Jamin would be best this year with simplified assignments at the WILL spot. Let him chase sideline to sideline and give him simple coverage assignments. Let him play fast. 
 

Having a LB that blitzes well is really helpful. That’s a huge part of why I liked Parsons. I think Parsons is going to be every bit of the blitzer that Devin White is. Elite. Parsons would have really taken our pass rush over the top, and I think would have addressed our weakness against the run as well. 
 

All that being said, since being drafted, Parsons has done nothing except reinforce the idea that he’s a low character knucklehead. And not to sound mean, but he also doesn’t seem bright. I think Jamin Davis has a very good chance to be better than Parsons, and is a better fit for this team. I just don’t think Jamin will be immediately better than Parsons. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree with both of your points here. I think Jamin would be best this year with simplified assignments at the WILL spot. Let him chase sideline to sideline and give him simple coverage assignments. Let him play fast. 
 

Having a LB that blitzes well is really helpful. That’s a huge part of why I liked Parsons. I think Parsons is going to be every bit of the blitzer that Devin White is. Elite. Parsons would have really taken our pass rush over the top, and I think would have addressed our weakness against the run as well. 
 

All that being said, since being drafted, Parsons has done nothing except reinforce the idea that he’s a low character knucklehead. And not to sound mean, but he also doesn’t seem bright. I think Jamin Davis has a very good chance to be better than Parsons, and is a better fit for this team. I just don’t think Jamin will be immediately better than Parsons. 

 

Hard for me to guess on Parsons based on what I've seen/read about him.  I watched him in an ESPN series that followed draft prospects and I would say he was the most articulate of the bunch and his fellow players on that program hyped how competitive he was.  You could see that in that series.  He wanted to beat everyone at everything including even bowling.  Listening to one of his Penn State coaches, he described him as the most competitive player he's ever had and he was really high on him.  Then on the other hand, he has the history he has and he doesn't do himself any favors with his statements.

 

He comes off to me as a dude with a ton of swagger with a chip on his shoulder.  In some ways his personality reminds me some of his mentor Lavar Arrington. A lot of bluster with Parsons.  Does that backfire?  It could.  But I am not banking on that it will.  To me it may or may not.  Michael Irvin for example was a lot like that personality wise but he channeled it well.  Some do.  Some don't.  Parsons to me comes off as a boom-bust prospect.    I think Jamin has the higher floor. 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Because of our offense being able to score points faster and earlier, I agree with Steve that our LBers will be protected. Teams shouldn't be able to live in the middle of our defense, without paying for it and they'll need to try and push the ball down field. 

 

Hopefully safety play improves.  Another problem with this defense last year was giving up big plays.  If I recall they gave up the most in the NFL or maybe it was top 3.  But I recall it was really high.  Bullock who does a lot of film review on the team talked about it.  If I recall Ledyard who covers Tampa (aside from his draft coverage) commented on it before the playoff game which was the odd combination of this defense being really good yet they can be had with homerun plays in a big way.  He thought the two things were an odd combination. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'd like to agree with you guys on Parsons but unfortunately I think he will be a stud for many years to come. Every player that talented has a giant ego, every one got paid and most were still studs.  

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hard for me to guess on Parsons based on what I've seen/read about him.  I watched him in an ESPN series that followed draft prospects and I would say he was the most articulate of the bunch and his fellow players on that program hyped how competitive he was.  You could see that in that series.  He wanted to beat everyone at everything including even bowling.  Listening to one of his Penn State coaches, he described him as the most competitive player he's ever had and he was really high on him.  Then on the other hand, he has the history he has and he doesn't do himself any favors with his statements.

 

He comes off to me as a dude with a ton of swagger with a chip on his shoulder.  In some ways his personality reminds me some of his mentor Lavar Arrington. A lot of bluster with Parsons.  Does that backfire?  It could.  But I am not banking on that it will.  To me it may or may not.  Michael Irvin for example was a lot like that personality wise but he channeled it well.  Some do.  Some don't.  Parsons to me comes off as a boom-bust prospect.    I think Jamin has the higher floor. 

 

Hopefully safety play improves.  Another problem with this defense last year was giving up big plays.  If I recall they gave up the most in the NFL or maybe it was top 3.  But I recall it was really high.  Bullock who does a lot of film review on the team talked about it.  If I recall Ledyard who covers Tampa (aside from his draft coverage) commented on it before the playoff game which was the odd combination of this defense being really good yet they can be had with homerun plays in a big way.  He thought the two things were an odd combination. 

Such an Achilles heel for us, for so many years. Collins lighter, Curl being able to move around more and McCain converging the back end is exciting. Apke honestly wasn't too bad at single high, he just can't get to the POA correctly 

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's talented for sure.  I think his career trajectory will be have a few good seasons on his rookie deal and then flaming out because of how combustible he is.  But he's not as good as he thinks he is, and I also don't think that defense gets much better with him.  They didn't need another talented LBer with a massive ego.  And he's going to be poisonous to their team culture.  I guess they thought their defense needed some swagger given how unbelievably soft they were.  But when they had success, it was through that high powered offense they built.  And that offense had a good blue collar culture of toughness and no sense of entitlement--their linemen were the real stars and their QB was a high character mid round pick.  Parsons is like the polar opposite of Dak Prescott.

I don’t know how much better their defense gets with him, but I was super relieved that Horn and Surtain didn’t wind up in conference. Both are going to have a much bigger impact than Parsons. 
 

And I agree with you completely about our secondary. I worry a little bit about FS. I’m really crossing my fingers for St-Juste. If we hit big on that pick, it could be transformative. 

[FuriousD]

I'm loving the draft picks and FA acquisitions for the defense this year.  These new faces and year-2 acclimation in the system for the returning players and we should see good return on investment.  But let's be honest,.. the single biggest improvement for the defense this year has to be Fitz and the revamped offense.

[Warhead36]

I see Davis making some big plays blowing up running backs in the back field but will probably also bite on fakes and get beat by other misdirection type stuff as well. But he'll still be a huge upgrade over the tomato cans we had last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Hopefully he has the same impact McQueen had for the Ravens last year. Heck of a lot of talent around him, so it might be tough to stand out.

[Burgundy Yoda]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hopefully he has the same impact McQueen had for the Ravens last year. Heck of a lot of talent around him, so it might be tough to stand out.

Hopefully he is much better than Patrick Queen was. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Hopefully he is much better than Patrick Queen was. 

Just Queen, not Mc, thanks.

 

Queen was the hands down favorite DROTY at midseason. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just Queen, not Mc, thanks.

 

Queen was the hands down favorite DROTY at midseason. 

His numbers do not match his play, Queen got beat a lot last year. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/patrick-queen/57941

 

Plus he has the most pitiful PFF rating I've ever seen lmao. 

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

His numbers do not match his play, Queen got beat a lot last year. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/patrick-queen/57941

 

Plus he has the most pitiful PFF rating I've ever seen lmao. 

WTF 29.7? That's terrible. That makes Bostic look like Ray Lewis.

[mistertim]

39 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

WTF 29.7? That's terrible. That makes Bostic look like Ray Lewis.

 

Yeah, and how the hell do you get a 29.3 run defense grade? At that point you might as well just be turning and running in the same direction as the RB and blocking for him.

[Going Commando]

That is really disheartening to see how much rookie linebackers have struggled the past few years.  But let it also be some perspective for us in case Jamin struggles this season.

 

I want to be cautious, but I think Jamin can break the streak and have a good rookie year.  Just the right mix of player and team and situation.  This defense is going to be awesome and Jamin is going to fly around and make plays.

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

WTF 29.7? That's terrible. That makes Bostic look like Ray Lewis.

Dude missed a TON of tackles last year, I forgot the number but I believe it was close to 20 tackles. LBers that have issues tackling are kind of scary, tackling is the biggest part of their jobs, but I also think he graded badly in coverage too. 

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

That is really disheartening to see how much rookie linebackers have struggled the past few years.  But let it also be some perspective for us in case Jamin struggles this season.

 

I want to be cautious, but I think Jamin can break the streak and have a good rookie year.  Just the right mix of player and team and situation.  This defense is going to be awesome and Jamin is going to fly around and make plays.

He just has to be a piece of the puzzle, as long as he doesn't try to do too much and overthink, he should flourish... hopefully lol. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Warhead36]

I think Davis will be fine in run defense and will occasionally make big plays in the backfield. Where I think he'll struggle is when he's isolated in coverage and having to diagnose complex passing plays on the fly.

[HTTRDynasty]

Isaiah Simmons had a rough rookie year too, especially in his first ~6 games. Shanny exposed him in Week 1, and it took him awhile to recover. I think he ended the year with a high 50s PFF grade.
 

Just goes to show how steep the learning curve is for rookie LBs... unless you’re Darius Leonard, Fred Warner or Bobby Wagner.  Fingers crossed that we landed ourselves a player of that caliber. 

[Burgold]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think Davis will be fine in run defense and will occasionally make big plays in the backfield. Where I think he'll struggle is when he's isolated in coverage and having to diagnose complex passing plays on the fly.

I thought pass coverage was where his strengths lie or is that just where his potential lay?