Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[bh32]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Do they play that style of defense? Slay is a good corner but McLaurin has lit him up in the past. I don't think they have much else in the secondary after that. Not every team can play tight man coverage and then blitz.

If they stop the run Heinicke will not be able to back them off with his arm..His ball float on every single pass that he throws..Throwing 50/50 balls ain't gonna cut it.He dosen't even use his best trait anymore which are his legs.

[NoCalMike]

24 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Well not all teams can play that style effectively.

 

I get that, in the NFL it seems way more teams play zone coverage, and then there are teams that play man, but not very well due to a lack of personnel.  My point though is that if you are building with the future in mind versus utilizing the best of what's currently available (which I feel they are doing in 2021 with TH) I don't think your are going to settle for a QB that struggles vs man coverage as a rule.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sell out to stop the run and see if Heinicke can take advantage of the loaded box and or players playing close to the line of scrimmage. 

 

That's IMO the game plan against Heinicke.  Heinicke IMO feeds off of play action and all the misdirection cooking from the backfield to primarily set up the run game which also in turn creates passing lanes.  You shut that down then IMO you likely shut Taylor down. 

 

If you stop the run early and make the team one dimensional where Taylor has to air it out -- that's what I believe defenses will try to do.  It's part of the reason why i don't see Taylor as a 10-14 type QB.  Those type of QBs have a fighting chance at least in a shoot out.  I like Taylor but this game brings home to me that i doubt he's the solution.  

 

The defense played pretty well as the announcers of the game continually highlighted.  They dealt with 4 turnovers from the offense, most on their own side of the field.  They limited Dak to 211 yards and Elliot to 45 yards.

 

If you told me before the game, Dak would throw for 211, Zeke would run for 45, we'd get two picks, including a pick 6, I'd guess a victory not a loss 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Amigo, its his job to make sure they are prepared to play, did they look prepared to you?  Dallas rally around their head coach this week and ours said dont worry about it, not a fan of how this week was handled given we didn't look ready to play or match Dallas intensity. That is on the head coach.

This has a bit of a Hollywood fantasy tone to it. Dallas didn’t rally around their head coach.  They are just flat out better at most every important position on the field.  You have to be honest and respect that fact.  They almost let the game slip away as well, it’s not as if they are perfect by any stretch.

 

Beyond that, our defense scored on a pick 6 and turned Dallas over early in the game, only for the offense to do nothing with it.

 

If you want to color the game that it wasn’t all Taylor, that’s fine.  But it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend the defense didn’t do enough to win.

[NoCalMike]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sell out to stop the run and see if Heinicke can take advantage of the loaded box and or players playing close to the line of scrimmage. 

 

That's IMO the game plan against Heinicke.  Heinicke IMO feed off of play action and all the misdirection cooking from the backfield to primarily set up the run game which also in turn creates passing lanes.

 

If you stop the run early and make the team one dimension where Taylor has to air it out -- it doesn't seem to be our receipe for success.  It's part of the reason why i donb't see Taylor as a 10-14 type QB.  Those type of QBs have a fighting chance at least in a shoot out.  I like Taylor but this game brings home to me that i doubt he's the solution.  

 

The defense played pretty well as the announcers of the game continually highlighted.  They dealt with 4 turnovers from the offense, most on their own side of the field.  They limited Dak to 211 yards and Elliot to 45 yards.

 

If you told me before the game, Dak would throw for 211, Zeke would run for 45, we'd get two picks, including a pick 6, I'd guess a victory not a loss 

 

Yes. All of this.  I am not sure why there seems to be this huge willingness to accept the idea of starting QB with these physical limitations as a long term solution.  It's crazy.  Maybe it is just a matter of the franchise as a whole being so QB-deprived over the last 30 years that any sign of a QB being totally not awful, there is a knee-jerk reaction to anoint them. We saw it some with Cousins too despite him showing over and over why he wasn't a QB you wanted to invest tens of millions on despite being able to produce good looking stat lines a lot.

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This has a bit of a Hollywood fantasy tone to it. Dallas didn’t rally around their head coach.  They are just flat out better at most every important position on the field.  You have to be honest and respect that fact.  They almost let the game slip away as well, it’s not as if they are perfect by any stretch.

 

Beyond that, our defense scored on a pick 6 and turned Dallas over early in the game, only for the offense to do nothing with it.

 

If you want to color the game that it wasn’t all Taylor, that’s fine.  But it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend the defense didn’t do enough to win.

 

Yeah I think some of the fanbase is in a bit of denial about the rosters.  Even with both rosters at full strength, Dallas is the better team on paper.  It doesn't mean they are several layers better or so much better that beating them is not realistic, but when you look at both rosters and don't factor inanything else I am not sure who would argue the WFT roster is better.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Throwing 50/50 balls ain't gonna cut it.He dosen't even use his best trait anymore which are his legs.

 

Heinicke being really reluctant to run is what really mystifies me.  Kyle Allen comes on and runs for 10 yards on his first play.

 

Even the announcers today talked about how the coaches want to see Heinicke run more.  I've heard Turner talk about it.  I've heard Rivera talk about it multiple times.  I've heard the beat reporters talk about it. 

 

Some don't seem to believe it and believe the coaches are telling Heinicke the opposite.  But if so, I've never seen Rivera as a liar including getting multiple broadcasters in multiple broadcasts to say the same thing, just for kicks?     

 

My point is yeah I find it odd that a dude that plays in such a ballsy way is supposedly being to encourage to take off more, yet he doesn't do it.  We've had three plays in the last 2 games where he has escaped pressure and had a ton of day light for a big run but instead he elected to throw the ball and everyone of those throws ended up in a completition.  they all looked like they could have been 20 yard runs. 

 

The more I digest Heinicke the more I don't buy that he's a top half of the league type of QB -- but part of me thinks he might have a shot to be one if he actually used his legs as a weapon.  And in my opinion his reluctance to run will likely be his undoing as for becoming the guy here or anywhere else and its really strange to me that its playing out like that. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Yeah I think some of the fanbase is in a bit of denial about the rosters.  Even with both rosters at full strength, Dallas is the better team on paper.  It doesn't mean they are several layers better or so much better that beating them is not realistic, but when you look at both rosters and don't factor inanything else I am not sure who would argue the WFT roster is better.

We have a fanbase that thinks its still the 80s and we're trotting the Hogs and the Posse out there.

 

The Cowboys are without a doubt better across the board at every position than us. And that's assuming we're 100% healthy.

 

People shouldn't confuse effort with ability. I didn't see a team not trying. We just got our asses kicked.

[zCommander]

Allen is having a really bad day against Tampa right now. Buffalo 10, Tampa 27. Just sayin'

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Maybe I'm jus bitter Dallas defense made more plays then ours and essentially win the game for them that makes it hard for me to say our defense played good with 27 points on the board.

Fumble return for a TD. The offense has been good for 3 straight weeks. we won against the Seahawks and the raiders but the offense wasn’t good. I think today was a reminder that we are not a good offensive team. 

[method man]

40 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Do they play that style of defense? Slay is a good corner but McLaurin has lit him up in the past. I don't think they have much else in the secondary after that. Not every team can play tight man coverage and then blitz.

 

The Eagles are one of the weaker defenses this team will get to play and their front 7 doesn't seem especially strong. Fletcher Cox is still playing well but he doesn't like he is the monster he used to be. My worry about the running game is that it was working very well with Schweitzer or Larsen in at center but doesn't seem quite as good with Ismael in there. Ismael seems technically competent but he doesn't seem physically strong. 

 

I think we all got a glimpse of what Jonathan Williams can do and I hope he gets more touches next week. I understand he was going against a bend but don't break Dallas D on that drive but look at his career numbers. He is a guy who has had big games in the past as a physical back

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

If you want to color the game that it wasn’t all Taylor, that’s fine.  But it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend the defense didn’t do enough to win.

 

FFS, I said it was everyone's fault when I bumped this thread, not that it wasn't Taylor's.  I should've never started on how I was admoniting EVERYONE in this thread because of course folks are assuming I'm defending Taylor. This is the first time I've seen most of us defend the defense in a loss all season, its not going to come from me today in context of what jus happened.

 

This is infuriating that yall arent infuriated at everything top to bottom with this organization right now, Dallas called every single one of us out.  Our team didn't respond and their fans took over our stadium. 

 

This is so much bigger then Taylor, stop pretending McCarthy's players backing him up doesn't matter, stop pretending Jerry Jones calling out our fanbase and us not showing up doesn't matter.  

[gooseneck]

They were on a pace to  beat us72-0; We only lost by 7; I say HA to Jerry Jones.

 

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

 

People shouldn't confuse effort with ability. I didn't see a team not trying. We just got our asses kicked.

 

They weren't trying as hard as Dallas at all, especially from the start of the game.  They told us they were going to punch us in the mouth, and did exactly that.  We came in like it was jus another game and it wasn't, big mistake.

 

I'm still pissed, this may have to wait until tomorrow, im seeing too many excuses for what happened today, like benching Taylor would've made a difference, folks are kidding themselves trying to rationalize what jus happened.

 

This isnt about talent, Tampa and the Raiders defiently had more talent then us ad well.

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

They weren't trying as hard as Dallas at all, especially from the start of the game.  They told us they were going to punch us in the mouth, and did exactly that.  We came in like it was jus another game and it wasn't, big mistake.

 

I'm still pissed, this may have to wait until tomorrow, im seeing too many excuses for what happened today, like benching Taylor would've made a difference, folks are kidding themselves trying to rationalize what jus happened.

 

This isnt about talent, Tampa and the Raiders defiently had more talent then us ad well.

 

The pain is real.

The effort was ho hum. 

 

[DWinzit]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Heinicke being really reluctant to run is what really mystifies me. 

He is very competitive. When he runs he, wants to fight or dive for yards which can and has led to injury. Maybe not taking off with the ball is an effort on his part to avoid injury.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

FFS, I said it was everyone's fault when I bumped this thread, not that it wasn't Taylor's.  I should've never started on how I was admoniting EVERYONE in this thread because of course folks are assuming I'm defending Taylor. This is the first time I've seen most of us defend the defense in a loss all season, its not going to come from me today in context of what jus happened.

 

This is infuriating that yall arent infuriated at everything top to bottom with this organization right now, Dallas called every single one of us out.  Our team didn't respond and their fans took over our stadium. 

 

This is so much bigger then Taylor, stop pretending McCarthy's players backing him up doesn't matter, stop pretending Jerry Jones calling out our fanbase and us not showing up doesn't matter.  

We are defending the defense because they played pretty well all things considered.

 

It sucks that Dallas called us out and we lost but at no point going into this did I think we have the better team.  They clearly have a leg up at Oline, QB, WR, pass rush and secondary, even when we are fully healthy of which we are not.  
 

I didn’t see a Washington team that didn’t want to win.  I saw Washington team with too many weaknesses getting their butt kicked by a superior specimen across from them.  And they still made it a game to the end somehow.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Heinicke picked a bad day to have a bad day.  No other way around it.  

 

 

[skins island connection]

I just knew that TH was going to have a career day in rushing yds, being Dallas' d line was all healthy, but TH stayed in the pocket too much; I dunno if it was by design or if he's trying to prove he's a pocket passer.

Either way, the guy excels, greatly, when he's out of the pocket, and Turner should know this and called more plays to get him outside, away from the pass rush, but when the OC and DC are as creative as a bucket of mud you can't hope for much.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I didn’t see a Washington team that didn’t want to win.  I saw Washington team with too many weaknesses getting their butt kicked by a superior specimen across from them.  And they still made it a game to the end somehow.

 

Nobody cares if they wanted to win, it was clear from the jump none of them wanted to win as bad as Dallas, thats my point. None of them.

 

I didn't see the extra effort or game plan needed to match what was coming into our building, more a team that was on a 4 game win streak and "dont fix what ain't broken".

 

A loss with this mentality was inevitable and we will recover, but of all weeks to do it, this was not the one, not in the context of the build up to the this game.

 

That pick 6 was basically gifted to us, this game wasn't as close as the score would indicate at all, we need to stop kidding ourselves, they curb stomped us, told us they were going to do it, and did it.

[Burgold]

Heinike had two bad weeks in a row. I'm not sure if it's his line falling apart, the pressure getting to him, or the NFL developing a book on how to play him. Could be a combo of all three.

 

He won against the Raiders, but still had a bad game in terms of accuracy. Too many of his balls were high. In Vegas, his receivers bailed him out. Today, they couldn't. To be fair, his receivers also dropped a few catchable ones to make him look even worse, but he struggled big time today.

[mistertim]

31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

FFS, I said it was everyone's fault when I bumped this thread, not that it wasn't Taylor's.  I should've never started on how I was admoniting EVERYONE in this thread because of course folks are assuming I'm defending Taylor. This is the first time I've seen most of us defend the defense in a loss all season, its not going to come from me today in context of what jus happened.

 

This is infuriating that yall arent infuriated at everything top to bottom with this organization right now, Dallas called every single one of us out.  Our team didn't respond and their fans took over our stadium. 

 

This is so much bigger then Taylor, stop pretending McCarthy's players backing him up doesn't matter, stop pretending Jerry Jones calling out our fanbase and us not showing up doesn't matter.  

 

Our defense allowed 20 points when Dallas was averaging 30 per game.

 

Our offense scored 14 points when Dallas was allowing an average of 22.

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

I get what you're saying but the "bothside-ism" view is off base here IMO. 

[DEASkins]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Nobody cares if they wanted to win, it was clear from the jump none of them wanted to win as bad as Dallas, thats my point. None of them.

 

I didn't see the extra effort or game plan needed to match what was coming into our building, more a team that was on a 4 game win streak and "dont fix what ain't broken".

 

A loss with this mentality was inevitable and we will recover, but of all weeks to do it, this was not the one, not in the context of the build up to the this game.

 

 

Wash got punked by their arch rival. When I heard Rivera comment pregame that they were focused on scheme and formation matchup vs the Dallas defense and not focused on where their individual playmakers would be aligned I was concerned. The offense is now responsible for scoring 17, 17 and 14 the last 3 games. Not good enough! 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by DEASkins

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

This is infuriating that yall arent infuriated at everything top to bottom with this organization right now, Dallas called every single one of us out.  Our team didn't respond and their fans took over our stadium. 

 

 

I posted this in another thread, my brother in law wanted to come over to watch the game with me, I text'd him at the time, you sure, it feels like it will be a beatdown.  I suggested on the game thread before the game, it doesn't feel like a game that's going to go well for obvious reasons.

 

Mckissic is the perfect response to an aggressive pass rush.  Alas he didn't play.  We were down to our 5th string and 6th string DE to play edge, at the end of the game it was the 6th and 7th stringer.  As Logan Paulsen mentioned pre broadcast, losing your edge rushers isn't the end of the world but having it happen right before the game is a disaster because the pass rush has been relying on blitzes that require Toohill and Smith-Williams to carry out their assignments -- those assignments are hard for new guys to just do so on the fly without practice reps.

 

Down to our 4th string center.  Backup RT.    Terry gets knocked out. 

 

None of it on its own is a disaster but the cumulative effect?

 

But when you combine that with a rested Dallas who had three extra days rest who was at almost full strength.  Their edge rushers are Parsons, Lawrence and Gregory and ours at the end of the game are S. Toney and Bradley-King. 

 

As the national pundits were saying this game is one that Dallas should because the talent disparity is huge.   No doubt.  This wasn't a coaching loss IMO.  Dallas should have romped us but in the end didn't.

 

Cowboy Clay who calls into to 980 for years, he's a dude that's a long-time Cowboy fan who loves to rub it in.  He called in today and said you guys were decimated, yet still put up a fight and should hold up your head high.  I agree.  Look if the game ended the way it started, i'd feel differently but they fought back and were outmanned by a mile. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Our defense allowed 20 points when Dallas was averaging 30 per game.

 

Our offense scored 14 points when Dallas was allowing an average of 22.

 

One of these things is not like the other.

 

I get what you're saying but the "bothside-ism" view is off base here IMO. 

 

No one deserves to be defended in a loss like this, no one.  The defense gets picked apart all the time for not getting stops when we need them, penalties that extend drives, and dropping easy interceptions. 

 

They did all that today, i dont care if they played well enough to in a game like this because we didn't, we lost, so trying to give them a pass like they had nothing to do with this is getting on my nerves.

 

Stop saying they played well enough to win when we didn't win, it means they didnt.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Our defense allowed 20 points when Dallas was averaging 30 per game.

 

Our offense scored 14 points when Dallas was allowing an average of 22.

 

 

Yep.  And we've relied on 17 points for the last two wins.  You have to score to win.  You aren't going to grind your way to every victory.  You got to put up points in this league eventually. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise