How to fix the Democratic Party

[Larry]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

the criticism is on the level of “I don’t like that they did/do that” and that’s about it 

 

That's certainly the case for me.  

 

I don't have a problem with Harris.  (He could have picked Sarah Palin and I'd have voted for them.)  

 

My problem was with picking a gender before you even started looking at resumes.  (And, even worse, with announcing it.)  

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

Putting aside the race/gender stuff, my biggest gripe with the Democratic Party is that they govern as if they are afraid of wielding power and they are routinely on the initial losing end of policy debates, even though their preferred policies end up being wildly popular as time goes on. 

The Republican Party will fear monger over any policy action that aims to use government resources to make people’s lives better. Whether that’s expanding voting and civil rights, additions to the social safety net or building modern infrastructure. 
 

My barometer for Joe Biden is how quickly he moves on giving statehood to DC and Puerto Rico. There is not a single good reason to have American taxpayers who don’t receive  congressional representation. It’s not even given that Puerto Rico will be a blue state. Its current governor endorsed Trump.
 

Governing afraid of the GOP and its toxicity really needs to end, and I’m hoping the Trump era radicalized enough liberals out of the mistaken belief that compromise is possible. 

Puerto Rico could be 50-50 a red state; GOP might even gain a seat or two.

 

 

[PokerPacker]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

the criticism is on the level of “I don’t like that they did/do that” and that’s about it 

For us it is, but how many people have become vulnerable to Trump's rhetoric as a result of things like this?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

7 hours ago, Hersh said:

they haven’t gotten rid of any of those things which is the opposite of your point. 

 

aca is a shell of what it was supposed to be, it basically isn’t sustainable as is. Unless democrats get serious about fixing the courts it’s only a matter of time that the courts decide on abortion and gay rights. They have the court they want. I would also ask you how serious they are about wanting to do any of that. They got the tax cuts, the voting restrictions,  roll back of environmental protections, appointment fo their court nominations, etc.

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

aca is a shell of what it was supposed to be,

This is a comical statement considering deep red states have passed Medicaid expansion during the Trump era. 
 

My 2nd suggestion for fixing the Democratic Party is for them to take funding for civics education much more seriously so people have more informed political opinions.

[Springfield]

Bill Maher killed it on Real Time this week.

 

Pretty much stop being pretentious assholes that find fault in anything and just wanna say “gotcha” on everyone.

 

 

[Larry]

6 hours ago, Springfield said:

Pretty much stop being pretentious assholes that find fault in anything and just wanna say “gotcha” on everyone.

 

Do they have to stop running child sex rings and fabricating votes out of thin air, too?  

[Springfield]

37 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Do they have to stop running child sex rings and fabricating votes out of thin air, too?  

 

Is this a joke comment? It's hard to gather via text.

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Is this a joke comment? It's hard to gather via text.

 

That was a way of saying "Do you also want them to stop doing these other things that they aren't doing, either?"  

[88Comrade2000]

Despite Joe winning the Dems do have long term problems.

 

I still can’t believe they didn’t seem to put more effort into flipping state legislatures.

One reason for the rot, GOP controls so much at the state level will again this decade.

 

Also, their representation in congress is too old. The average age of Dems; especially in leadership positions is nearly 20 years older than the GOP.  The Dems are completely out of touch with their younger base.

 

2022 is not looking good for the House. The Senate map is favorable but it depends how weak or strong their gop opponents are. Also, midterms usually aren’t good for the president’s party.  Also, 2022 is when most of the governors are up for re-election.

 

Also, Joe is not going to have fun keeping peace in the Dem party and pursing what he realistically can vs the wishes of what his party members really want.

[Springfield]

25 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

That was a way of saying "Do you also want them to stop doing these other things that they aren't doing, either?"  

 

There is certainly a group of people (who are definitely not conservatives) that look to attack people who don't match their ideology. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it isn't. For instance, weren't there riots not long ago for the police murdering a black man who was charging them with a knife? Is "Defund the police" really something we (as democrats) want to attach to our platform?

 

Also, shooting down a liberal's thoughts on how we should fix the democrat party, in a thread that you started asking how we should fix, is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

 

Different subject:

Going back through the thread last night... liberals on this board seem pretty bent on assigning value to somebodies qualifications in order to hold certain positions. I think that people like AOC and Barack Obama are shining examples of how we need to stop thinking that someone has "earned" the right to hold a position. That's how we got to Hillary Clinton. Pete Buttigueg, young as he is, can be president, Vice President, Secretary of State, whatever. We aren't going to skew the party any younger by trying to assign merit to political positions.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Springfield

[Larry]

Notice how quickly you moved from "Democrats need to" to "Some people exist who"?  

 

Yes, there have been protests, for months, over a systemic pattern of police killing unarmed blacks in disproportionate numbers, and being largely unpunished, even with video evidence demonstrates a disproportionate response.  Yes some people have used these protests as cover to perform or incite riots.  And yes, it looks like one of the people being mentioned at these protests was, to put it mildly, a poor choice for an icon.  

 

And as to "we as Democrats, attaching 'Defund the police' to our platform", see my previous comment about Democrats stopping doing things that they already aren't doing.  

 

[Bang]

for starters: Find the person who said "we ought to make our slogan DEFUND the police!" and FIRE THEM immediately. 
I have never in my life seen an idea so badly misrepresented by those who initiated it,, it is almost as if they came up with the slogan SPECIFICALLY to create as much public pushback as they could. 
Honestly, it's like saying "I want to ****ing KILL YOU" when you mean to say "Happy Mother's day".

The rest of their toothlessness needs to take a lesson from the "impeachment".

As I have said many times before, evil takes root because good people hesitate to see them for what they are, believing that if they could just talk to them, they'd see reason and behave accordingly. It will never happen, has never happened, and they learned this lesson yet again.

TWO articles of impeachment, when they had DOZENS that they could work with.
So they went with two. Again, it's like they wanted to lose. And they ****ing did. (Oh, it'll say in the books they "impeached him", and then it will go on to say everything he did afterwards.
Good people expect bad people to behave in a way they expect, and when they don't, they have no idea what to do about it.

2 articles. Oh boy, he was impeached..  to absolutely no consequence what-so-ever.
Remember the talk about how "now he'll have learned". yeah right. He learned you couldn't / WOULDN'T touch him, and he threw it in your face and got worse. He destroyed the lives of your witnesses as best as he could, and all you got for any of it was strengthened fascism and a footnote in a history book that will eventually be recognized as a FAILURE to stop a megalomaniac bent on destroying every institution of democracy in this country. He said **** the rule of law, and they LET HIM.

#1 thing to fix the Dems, recognize what the republicans are and treat them accordingly. Realize they are not a party of opposing ideas (certainly NOT conservatism or anything even resembling it.) , they are a mob of fascist extremists, and that means ALL OF THEM. If they're STILL on that side, that is what they are.  Plain and simple.

One other thing they could do to REALLY go a long way to fixing thing is to meet Mitch McConnell in the hallway and beat his ****ing ass with a tire iron.
Oh, and out Lyndsey Graham. 

 

~Bang

Edited November 15, 2020 by Bang

[RansomthePasserby]

On 11/1/2020 at 11:27 AM, Corcaigh said:

Taking race out of the picture ... if you simply took the best students academically, the top universities in Virginia would heavily skew female, and from the wealthier DC suburbs.

 

if you are a female from Northern Virginia your odds of getting into W&M and UVA are significantly lower than a male from another part of the state. 
 

My daughter was admitted to W&M and was very happy that the demographics of her class was not a carbon copy of Loudoun County, VA. Her college experience was not negatively impacted by the acceptance of males who were not the “best qualified for the job“.

 

You also have to look at supply and demand for types degrees as well though. Women might outperform according to overall GPA and extracurricular requirements, but at the same time a college might need 50% (made up number) of their applicants to be interested in a STEM program, where applicant demographics skew toward men.

 

Which is also part of the problem with saying we have X% of this race or gender in the population as a whole, therefore X% of this specific job or population of students or professionals or whatever should reflect that. The interests and expertise for certain positions doesn’t necessarily follow the overall demographics of the population.

[Springfield]

40 minutes ago, Larry said:

Notice how quickly you moved from "Democrats need to" to "Some people exist who"?  

 

Yes, there have been protests, for months, over a systemic pattern of police killing unarmed blacks in disproportionate numbers, and being largely unpunished, even with video evidence demonstrates a disproportionate response.  Yes some people have used these protests as cover to perform or incite riots.  And yes, it looks like one of the people being mentioned at these protests was, to put it mildly, a poor choice for an icon.  

 

And as to "we as Democrats, attaching 'Defund the police' to our platform", see my previous comment about Democrats stopping doing things that they already aren't doing.  

 

 

These are people who identify as democrats.

 

Also, another thing that democrats are bad at. They're bad at calling out all the bull**** that republicans accuse them of. Their messaging is very weak. Like, they just accept that they are socialists. I've never seen a democrat politician say they aren't a socialist. What the ****?

[Bang]

41 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

These are people who identify as democrats.

 

Also, another thing that democrats are bad at. They're bad at calling out all the bull**** that republicans accuse them of. Their messaging is very weak. Like, they just accept that they are socialists. I've never seen a democrat politician say they aren't a socialist. What the ****?

If they were smart and REALLY wanted to "defund the police" all they'd need to do is show how the entirety of police forces are supported by socialism. They are paid by your tax dollars.
the dumbasses on the right would either defund them in a heartbeat, or would perhaps explode from the contradiction of their completely ass backward ideas slamming full force into undeniable reality.

 

 

Ah, who am i kidding. There is no reality they can't deny.

 

~Bang

[redskins59]

They need better Data Scientists. I was reading the other day that Republicans were mining social media such as twitter and facebook to make people vote.  As a result, Trump gained 10 million from the 2016 numbers. Of course, Republicans didn't care about the virus, so they knocked on more doors. That mattered too, but it appears to me that Republicans use certain things better.

With PhD types leaning more towards Democrats than Republicans, you need to do better and find elite data scientists.

Republicans did better tham expected locally.  So they will draw the map however they want. And yes, they will use Data Scientists and Statisticians for this.  The newer maps will be even more gerrymandered. So, Democrats are screwed.

[Die Hard]

6 minutes ago, Bang said:

If they were smart and REALLY wanted to "defund the police" all they'd need to do is show how the entirety of police forces are supported by socialism. They are paid by your tax dollars.
the dumbasses on the right would either defund them in a heartbeat, or would perhaps explode from the contradiction of their completely ass backward ideas slamming full force into undeniable reality.

 

 

Ah, who am i kidding. There is no reality they can't deny.

 

~Bang

Actually, I can see that potentially working. Put them on the defensive for once.

 

When they start waving the flag with the thin blue line..... call them a socialists. When they are driving on public roads, scream to the hill tops they are socialists. When they use community parks/arenas, accuse them of being socialists. When they get mail from their mail boxes, remind them they are socialists. When they support the military, accuse them of being socialist. When they eat foods that have been subsidized by the government, remind them they’re socialists. When they show up anywhere in public, remind them how their cars where made in other countries, and everything they own was made in China. They’re fundamentally anti-American and socialist.

 

Force them to deny and question who they are and what they stand for.

 

 

[The 12th Commandment]

1 hour ago, Die Hard said:

Actually, I can see that potentially working. Put them on the defensive for once.

 

When they start waving the flag with the thin blue line..... call them a socialists. When they are driving on public roads, scream to the hill tops they are socialists. When they use community parks/arenas, accuse them of being socialists. When they get mail from their mail boxes, remind them they are socialists. When they support the military, accuse them of being socialist. When they eat foods that have been subsidized by the government, remind them they’re socialists. When they show up anywhere in public, remind them how their cars where made in other countries, and everything they own was made in China. They’re fundamentally anti-American and socialist.

 

Force them to deny and question who they are and what they stand for.

 

 

You sweet (short) summer child.  The ability of Righties to spin, self-delude, lie, ignore and manufacture their own reality is almost god like.  They have their own media and it's all they pay attention to and it's never going to do the things you suggest.

[megared]

13 hours ago, redskins59 said:

They need better Data Scientists. I was reading the other day that Republicans were mining social media such as twitter and facebook to make people vote.  As a result, Trump gained 10 million from the 2016 numbers. Of course, Republicans didn't care about the virus, so they knocked on more doors. That mattered too, but it appears to me that Republicans use certain things better.

With PhD types leaning more towards Democrats than Republicans, you need to do better and find elite data scientists.

Republicans did better tham expected locally.  So they will draw the map however they want. And yes, they will use Data Scientists and Statisticians for this.  The newer maps will be even more gerrymandered. So, Democrats are screwed.

 

Dunno, man.  I'm in the field, and not so convinced Republicans are poaching the best and brightest.  I'm convinced the messaging is more important than any empirical underlying facts.   Republicans did more analysis on messaging from a marketing perspective and used that to inform Trump's platform.  I don't think anyone has attempted to do what Obama's team did then, since.   Dems were overconfident in '16.  

 

I don't think anyone with a legitimate future would align themselves professionally with dudes creating forecasts of covid deaths using stock Excel trendlines to tell the most favorable possible story...

 

Having said that,  there's definitely room for improvement in the dem strategy.  

[88Comrade2000]

Nancy maybe on her way out as speaker.

[redskins59]

10 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Nancy maybe on her way out as speaker.

 

I really hope so.  Can we have fresh blood?  I have always liked her, but time to go young.

[NoCalMike]

Honestly, when half the country get their information from Fox, Breitbart, OANN, and worse....I am not sure how you sell ideas and outcomes and expect any kind of honest back and forth.  When half the country think Biden is a socialist how do you form a strategy to win over voters?  Obama's economic recovery definitely had weak points and flaws, but the fact that people actually believe the economy was in a horrible place when Trump was sworn in?  Huh?

 

The bigger question to me is how do we get back to a place where people are debating REALITY?  This is so much bigger than fixing the Democratic party in the way it is being proposed in this thread, because policy-wise the party isn't really broken.  Their policies remain vastly more popular even with a lot of registered Republicans but policies don't seem to translate to politicians anymore.  

Edited November 16, 2020 by NoCalMike

[Die Hard]

11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Honestly, when half the country get their information from Fox, Breitbart, OANN, and worse....I am not sure how you sell ideas and outcomes and expect any kind of honest back and forth.  When half the country think Biden is a socialist how do you form a strategy to win over voters?  Obama's economic recovery definitely had weak points and flaws, but the fact that people actually believe the economy was in a horrible place when Trump was sworn in?  Huh?

 

The bigger question to me is how do we get back to a place where people are debating REALITY? 

 

You don’t have to go back. You have to move forward. What’s the reality now... pivot and respond.

 

Stop playing an old opponent with an older set of rules (paradigm). Your opponent changed... and changed the rules of the game. Possibly forever. Your young innocent child has become a rebellious teenager. Stop bemoaning their evolution (and nostalgia) and change tactics. It wouldn’t hurt to even use some of the strategies that are working for them too. As Maher has said..... policy doesn’t inspire action. Emotions do. Hit on values.... hit on fears (remember, Democracy was at stake this election... and look at the turnout). 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Die Hard

[LadySkinsFan]

One way to fix Democrats is to develop actions, information, and influence to counteract the Southern Strategy used by Republicans beginning with Nixon. Here's an interesting article about this very subject.

 

https://www.salon.com/2020/11/08/reversing-the-southern-strategy-even-small-victories-are-a-sign-of-huge-progress/