Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[justice98]

11 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

As much as I love Schreff, he is going to cost a lot of money to keep him around as a guard but he can be replaced in the draft or FA.  Replacing someone like that via draft is much easier if we retain our picks in the top 1-3 rounds.

 

We've spent what, 3-4 years, just trying to replace Shawn Lavauo at LG though?  lol Take nothing for granted.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Yeah, people said the same thing about Jim Plunkett, and then he won two Super Bowls with the Raiders.

 

Rosen has had like 5 different coaches in the 3 years that he has been in the league.  I don't feel that he has been given a fair shot and it's ridiculous to say with certainty that he is done.  I would much rather take a shot with a young guy that you can get dirt cheap like Rosen than someone like Stafford, who is going to cost a fortune and who's best years are probably behind him.  I would rather try to stick it out with Smith for a couple of more years.

 

I'd go Darnold over Rosen albeit I don't love either one.   Rosen's decsion making is atrocious IMO, which is weird considering how smart a guy he supposedly is.  He's had some work ethic red flags brought up by some.  But i've heard a mixed bag about that.   

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Yeah, people said the same thing about Jim Plunkett, and then he won two Super Bowls with the Raiders.

 

Rosen has had like 5 different coaches in the 3 years that he has been in the league.  I don't feel that he has been given a fair shot and it's ridiculous to say with certainty that he is done.  I would much rather take a shot with a young guy that you can get dirt cheap like Rosen than someone like Stafford, who is going to cost a fortune and who's best years are probably behind him.  I would rather try to stick it out with Smith for a couple of more years.

Rosen is 100% done. Players don’t magically get better in this “what have you done for me lately” league

[TradeTheBeal!]

I would love to kick the tires on Darnold.  Guy is extremely talented.

[Number 44]

16 hours ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

Kyle Allen is the best QB currently on the roster. Change my mind.

 

Allen: Passing Rating 99.3 TDs: 4 INTs: 1

Haskins: Passing Rating 79.4 TDs: 4 INTs: 3

Smith: Passing Rating 79.0 TDs: 4 INTs: 6

I put little, if any, stock in small sample size comparisons like this.  Way too many variables.  Opponent.  Game script.  Game plan.  Injuries.  Heck, even weather.  Not saying you are wrong, just saying your evidence is flimsy.

[jnhutchi3]

17 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

I put little, if any, stock in small sample size comparisons like this.  Way too many variables.  Opponent.  Game script.  Game plan.  Injuries.  Heck, even weather.  Not saying you are wrong, just saying your evidence is flimsy.

 

Especially when Smith hasn't played in two years.  There is no way in hell that I would take Allen over Smith, not until Smith can't get it done anymore.  And Smith is still getting it done.

[jnhutchi3]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

Rosen is 100% done. Players don’t magically get better in this “what have you done for me lately” league

 

Soothsayers come and go.  You don't know if Rosen is done and neither do I.  And I would rather gamble on someone young like Rosen for a cheap price than spend a fortune on Stafford who may or may not pan out.  The bright shiny objects usually ain't worth the price.  More often than not, big name free agents have come to Washington and not played well.  Sorry ass Dan Snyder has played fantasy football long enough.  

 

People thought Colt McCoy was done, too, and he was a solid backup for several years with Washington.  He was better than Cousins, in my opinion.

[mistertim]

Why are we talking about Kyle Allen so much? The guy is a serviceable backup and extremely mediocre starter. He's quite a bit better than Haskins (which is saying almost nothing) and a bit better than Alex Smith (which is saying more but still not that much since Smith is a completely average QB as well), though some of that just has to do with being younger and more mobile IMO. He's got moxie and knows the system but he just doesn't have much more than that and sometimes his moxie gets him in trouble because it causes him to try and do stuff that he simply doesn't have the talent to do.

 

I'd be quite ok with Stafford but I'm always wary about giving up a 1st. That being said, Stafford is a baller but has been on a **** team for his whole career and outside of Megatron hasn't really had much around him. 

[jnhutchi3]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

And this does not even include the mobility upgrade with Kyle Allen.  To believe Alex Smith will strengthen his rebuilt leg and become more mobile at age 37 is nonsense, he will never be mobile again. 

 

Someone mentioned the WFT's window for winning big is 3-4 years with all the young contracts that will expire. How bizarre is it that in 2020 we are discussing a window for competing for a title?  But it's totally true.  

 

Plunkett in NE was not nearly the bust that Rosen has shown to be.  He was traded from New England at a price of another QB, 3 firsts and a second if you can believe that.  Teams, even stupid teams, don't give up that much for a player who was an obvious bust. 

 

But even if we use Plunket, who was in an equally crappy situation in NE and was much more productive than Rosen has been, that is one example from 2 generations ago. For every Plunket there are hundreds Heath Shulers.  

 

People gave up on Plunkett after his stint in San Francisco.  That's why he was a third string QB when he first came to the Raiders.

 

Someone young and cheap like Rosen or Mariotta is a better gamble than Stafford.  If they don't pan out, then at least you're not giving up the farm.  Smith or Allen can run things the next couple of years until we find the next Theismann.

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Why are we talking about Kyle Allen so much? The guy is a serviceable backup and extremely mediocre starter. He's quite a bit better than Haskins (which is saying almost nothing) and a bit better than Alex Smith (which is saying more but still not that much since Smith is a completely average QB as well), though some of that just has to do with being younger and more mobile IMO. He's got moxie and knows the system but he just doesn't have much more than that and sometimes his moxie gets him in trouble because it causes him to try and do stuff that he simply doesn't have the talent to do.

 

I'd be quite ok with Stafford but I'm always wary about giving up a 1st. That being said, Stafford is a baller but has been on a **** team for his whole career and outside of Megatron hasn't really had much around him. 

Uh. We’re talking about him because he’s very likely to be our starting QB next year. Regardless of how he grades in the overall scheme. 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'd be quite ok with Stafford but I'm always wary about giving up a 1st. That being said, Stafford is a baller but has been on a **** team for his whole career and outside of Megatron hasn't really had much around him. 

 

Yeah I wouldn't hate a trade for Stafford.  Maybe they can avoid a first rounder by throwing in someone like Settle in a trade?

 

We aren't maximizing Terry right now.  With his 4.35 speed, he can be a serious deep threat.  Alex doesn't have a strong arm, netiher does Kyle Allen.  Haskins has a strong arm (albeit not Stafford level strong) but throws a poor deep ball.

 

You have Stafford.  Maybe sign his teammate Golladay.  And yeah we have the cap room to do both and more.  Wow, would that change this offense instantly.  Stafford has one of the strongest arms in the NFL. 

 

He's far from the perfect solution but veteran stud QBs don't fall out of the FA sky.  That's part of the reason why QBs get paid so much.

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I would love to kick the tires on Darnold.  Guy is extremely talented.

 

Your thought about Stafford weeks back beats this one.  😀. I wouldn't hate it if its Darnold if its for a 3rd rounder, roll of the dice move but I'd much rather go with the surer hand. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I would love to kick the tires on Darnold.  Guy is extremely talented.

 

He has been compared to Aaron Rodgers and is a "gunslinger".

 

Also: He is friends with fellow quarterbacks Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills and Kyle Allen of the Washington Football Team, with the three often training together in the off-season.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28978391/kyle-allen-sam-darnold-josh-allen-benefit-joint-workouts

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by zskins

[method man]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I wouldn't hate a trade for Stafford.  Maybe they can avoid a first rounder by throwing in someone like Settle in a trade?

 

We aren't maximizing Terry right now.  With his 4.35 speed, he can be a serious deep threat.  Alex doesn't have a strong arm, netiher does Kyle Allen.  Haskins has a strong arm (albeit not Stafford level strong) but throws a poor deep ball.

 

You have Stafford.  Maybe sign his teammate Golladay.  And yeah we have the cap room to do both and more.  Wow, would that change this offense instantly.

 

He's far from the perfect solution but veteran stud QBs don't fall out of the FA sky.  That's part of the reason why QBs get paid so much.

 

Bottom line is that with Stafford in the fold, you have a realistic chance at winning a Super Bowl if you are able to give him a couple more weapons. The NFC is weak right now as there is no KC type of juggernaut in this conference, and you've gotta strike while the iron is hot

[Darrell Green Fan]

50 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

People gave up on Plunkett after his stint in San Francisco.  That's why he was a third string QB when he first came to the Raiders.

 

Someone young and cheap like Rosen or Mariotta is a better gamble than Stafford.  If they don't pan out, then at least you're not giving up the farm.  Smith or Allen can run things the next couple of years until we find the next Theismann.

 

I understand this. But before that happened Jim Plunkett had shown more in New England than Josh Rosen has ever shown, which is nothing.  And again you are pulling one example from the 70's and ignoring the hundreds of Blaine Gabberts that came after Plunkett.  

 

Mathew Stafford has been a very good QB on a bad team, had he been drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers he would have been a great QB.  This team with a few additions and Mathew Stafford would be instant contenders.  QBs play well into their late 30's these days, he has a lot left in the tank.  But at what cost?  At least a 1st and a huge new contract.  That is the price for a franchise QB. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[TradeTheBeal!]

With the current state of the defense and the competition within the division, the acquisition of Stafford basically signals an intent to win the East for the next 3-4 years.

 

Which is a worthy goal.

[Renegade7]

My work here is done, hail : )

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Bottom line is that with Stafford in the fold, you have a realistic chance at winning a Super Bowl if you are able to give him a couple more weapons. The NFC is weak right now as there is no KC type of juggernaut in this conference, and you've gotta strike while the iron is hot

 

Yeah I see Stafford has some detractors here but not me among them.  I've liked him for years.  I am typically not a trade picks for veterans kind of guy but considering the context of the team right now i am in favor of it if the situation is right.  I can't really think of anything better out there potentially veteran wise than Stafford.  And I still think we can't count on him hitting the market for sure but it looks like he might. 

 

 

 

 

DETROIT -- The Detroit Lions’ defense is so bad that the guys who put it together have already been fired. They were playing without top defensive end Trey Flowers too. And the red-hot Everson Griffen. And both projected starting cornerbacks, Desmond Trufant and Jeff Okudah. And third-round pick Julian Okwara. And top interior lineman Danny Shelton.

One of the NFL’s worst defenses, shorthanded in the front end as well as the back, on the interior as well as the edge, for a game against the top-seeded Packers and MVP frontrunner Aaron Rodgers -- well, the talent differential was absurd. Rodgers had more touchdown passes (three) than quarterback hits (one). He had more touchdown runs (one) than sacks (zero).

 

He was almost perfect. Which meant Matthew Stafford had to be almost perfect.

 

And he was.

 

And the Lions still trailed by 14 points midway through the fourth quarter.

 

But Stafford didn’t quit. He never stopped fighting. He drove all the way to Green Bay’s 11-yard line. But facing a third-and-4, no one was open in the end zone. Kerryon Johnson had some room in the flats to the right, but two defenders were standing between him and the sticks. The chances of that play moving the chains were slim.

 

So Stafford tucked the ball and ran into the teeth of the defense. Even though he’s already playing with a partially torn ligament in his throwing thumb. Even though he already broke his back on a play much like this one last year, trying to play hero at the goal line in Oakland. Didn’t matter. Stafford still tucked that ball into his left hand -- the one without a partially torn ligament -- and ran for it.

 

What he didn’t know is Kenny Clark was running him down from behind. So when Stafford finally started to give himself up past the sticks, he got blindsided by a 314-pound Pro Bowl defensive lineman and ricocheted off safety Will Redmond as he twisted to the ground at the 2-yard line.

 

Stafford stayed in the game for one more play, a touchdown run by Kerryon Johnson, and then his day was over. And you really have to wonder whether that might be the last we see him this year. Which means you really have to wonder whether that’s the last we’ve ever seen of the former No. 1 pick in Honolulu blue.

 

And if that really is the case, then there was no more fitting ending than this.

 

First, the facts. Stafford injured his ribs in the 31-24 loss against Green Bay on Sunday. He tried to throw some passes to backup Chase Daniel on the sideline, but was in so much pain that he headed up the tunnel for the locker room. He emerged a few minutes later to try a few more passes, but remained in so much pain that interim head coach Darrell Bevell shut him down for good.

“We (had) to figure out what he is capable of doing,” Bevell said. “No. 1, can he protect himself? And then obviously No. 2, can he function? Can he throw the ball and that kind of thing? We were assessing that, and I just felt that at that time it was more important to get Chase out there and not put him back in that situation.”

 

Stafford underwent X-rays after the game. Bevell said he did not yet have the results, so it’s still possible the injury is something that can be managed in the next three weeks. Perhaps. We don’t know yet. But just think about all the stuff Stafford has played through over the years. An ankle here, a hand there. Rib, shoulder, groin. Hip, twice. Back, twice. Knee, three times. Torn ligament in his throwing thumb, right now.

 

You name the body part, Stafford has probably played through it. Only five quarterbacks have ever started more games consecutively than him. No one does something like that in this league without being tough as you-know-what. Stafford’s toughness is not in any dispute.

 

So to see him come out of a game like this, in a spot like that, with Detroit’s faint playoff hopes hanging in the balance, you have to figure it’s at least possible -- perhaps even likely -- this is the kind of injury that could shut down a quarterback of a 5-8 team with just three games to play.

 

“We know (No.) 9 is a warrior, man,” left tackle Taylor Decker said. “He’ll battle through a lot, he’ll push through a lot of pain. So if he can’t go, then it’s really because he can’t.”

 

And if Stafford can’t go again this season -- Detroit has games left against Tennessee, Tampa Bay and Minnesota -- then he’ll head into the most uncertain offseason of his career three weeks early.

 

There has been speculation before about Stafford’s future in Detroit, including some bizarre trade rumors out of Miami the last couple of years and another from WDIV-TV last offseason. None of it was ever true. But now the Lions are searching for a new general manager and head coach, and there’s no telling what will happen with the new regime.

Hey, they could even decide to continue building around Stafford. He’s still highly regarded around the league and still has two years left on what has become a team-friendly deal for a franchise quarterback. Then again, Stafford turns 33 in February. It’s not like his arm is going to fall off any day now -- Aaron Rodgers is still one of the best in the game at 37 -- but the mileage is undeniably high after all those games and all those hits and all those injuries. He’ll be due a new contract soon too, and pouring more money into a high-mileage quarterback who could be 34 or 35 by the time the rebuild starts to pay off might not be the way to go.

 

Of course, Detroit could always roll with Stafford another season while drafting a quarterback to develop behind him. But his trade value will never be as high as it will be this offseason. Two years left on the contract is better than one, and could fetch at least a first-round pick, which would help accelerate the rebuild.

 

It’s impossible to say what the Lions will do with Stafford until a new regime in place, and a long-term vision begins to emerge. But there’s no disputing Stafford’s future is more unclear than ever after 12 seasons that have produced no playoff wins, no division championships, no nothing. Nada. And the time for change might have arrived.

 

As former Lions quarterback Dan Orlovsky told me over the summer: “If they don’t win this year, no matter how he plays, he’s gone. I believe that. He has never said anything -- we’re great friends -- but we don’t really talk about that. But I can sit here and say I get it. I understand it from both perspectives. I can get it from his perspective -- ‘I want to get out, I want my good play to result in more wins.’ But I can understand it from the franchise’s perspective too, that at some point you have to say, ‘It just didn’t work. We’ve done this for a dozen years, and it just didn’t work. It didn’t happen.’

 

Thirteen games into this season, it still isn’t happening. And if this really is the end of the Matthew Stafford era in Detroit, there was no more fitting ending than this.

 

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2020/12/if-this-is-the-end-for-matthew-stafford-in-detroit-what-a-fitting-ending-it-was.html

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

4 teams who should consider trading for Lions QB Matthew Stafford

The Detroit Lions have suffered through yet another disappointing season this year. Matt Patricia was fired, but no one truly knows what the future holds for the franchise. Matthew Stafford is still the starting quarterback in Detroit, but many believe that the franchise could trade him this offseason.

Stafford has been one of the most underrated stars in the NFL throughout his career. He is always putting up big numbers and is without a doubt the kind of franchise quarterback that a good team can build around.

So far this season in 13 games, Stafford has completed 63.9 percent of his pass attempts for 3,522 yards, 22 touchdowns, and nine interceptions. He has not had a great offensive line and his weapons are not elite. However, he has made the most of his time with the Lions.

 

If the Lions do look to trade Stafford this offseason, there are quite a few teams that will have interest. Stafford is the kind of quarterback that could come in and immediately lead a team on a deep playoff run.

All of that being said, let’s take a look at four teams who should consider pursuing a trade with the Lions for Matthew Stafford.

 

Washington Football Team

One of the most intriguing teams to watch this offseason will be Washington. They are actually a decent football team after struggling for years. Unfortunately, Dwayne Haskins did not pan out this season and Ron Rivera could want the team to look outside of the organization for a new quarterback.

 

Stafford would be able to come in and fix that weakness immediately. He would make Washington a team that could very well win the NFC East.

Washington has some very good weapons in Terry McLaurin and Antonio Gibson. They would likely need to improve their offense a bit more, but Stafford would be a huge upgrade. If Stafford is available, Washington should go after him.

 

https://www.nflanalysis.net/4-teams-who-should-consider-trading-for-lions-qb-matthew-stafford/

Edited December 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

4 teams who should consider trading for Lions QB Matthew Stafford

The Detroit Lions have suffered through yet another disappointing season this year. Matt Patricia was fired, but no one truly knows what the future holds for the franchise. Matthew Stafford is still the starting quarterback in Detroit, but many believe that the franchise could trade him this offseason.

Stafford has been one of the most underrated stars in the NFL throughout his career. He is always putting up big numbers and is without a doubt the kind of franchise quarterback that a good team can build around.

So far this season in 13 games, Stafford has completed 63.9 percent of his pass attempts for 3,522 yards, 22 touchdowns, and nine interceptions. He has not had a great offensive line and his weapons are not elite. However, he has made the most of his time with the Lions.

 

If the Lions do look to trade Stafford this offseason, there are quite a few teams that will have interest. Stafford is the kind of quarterback that could come in and immediately lead a team on a deep playoff run.

All of that being said, let’s take a look at four teams who should consider pursuing a trade with the Lions for Matthew Stafford.

 

Washington Football Team

One of the most intriguing teams to watch this offseason will be Washington. They are actually a decent football team after struggling for years. Unfortunately, Dwayne Haskins did not pan out this season and Ron Rivera could want the team to look outside of the organization for a new quarterback.

 

Stafford would be able to come in and fix that weakness immediately. He would make Washington a team that could very well win the NFC East.

Washington has some very good weapons in Terry McLaurin and Antonio Gibson. They would likely need to improve their offense a bit more, but Stafford would be a huge upgrade. If Stafford is available, Washington should go after him.

 

https://www.nflanalysis.net/4-teams-who-should-consider-trading-for-lions-qb-matthew-stafford/

 

He is forgetting the Patriots. That is who I am most scared of from a competition perspective. They will pick higher, have more cap room and the allure of Belichek - I wouldn't be surprised if Stafford gets some say on where he is headed.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

 

He is forgetting the Patriots. That is who I am most scared of from a competition perspective. They will pick higher, have more cap room and the allure of Belichek - I wouldn't be surprised if Stafford gets some say on where he is headed.

 

My question is whether or not Bill B would actually pony up a 1st rounder for Stafford. He's notoriously stingy with his draft picks. Then again, it's easier to be draft stingy when you lucked into the GOAT at QB and had him for just shy of 20 years. He might be a bit more willing to part with high draft picks now so we'll see.

 

Another one to watch is SF. Both SF and the Pats will likely have higher picks than us.

 

Both Jimmy G and Stafford have 2 years remaining on their contracts but Stafford's is way more team friendly as far as his base salary, and SF only takes a $2.8 million cap hit if they release Jimmy G in 2021. Question then is whether SF thinks a 33 year old Stafford is a sufficient upgrade over a 29 year old Jimmy G to warrant giving up a 1st round pick. That and whether they think they'll be in position to draft one of the top 3 QBs coming out.

[Fresh8686]

It’s be awesome if we could trade down in the first and then use that later first rounder to get Stafford. 

[Kelvin Bryant]

2 hours ago, Number 44 said:

I put little, if any, stock in small sample size comparisons like this.  Way too many variables.  Opponent.  Game script.  Game plan.  Injuries.  Heck, even weather.  Not saying you are wrong, just saying your evidence is flimsy.

While you didn't necessarily change my mind, that's a pretty solid argument.

[jnhutchi3]

51 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I understand this. But before that happened Jim Plunkett had shown more in New England than Josh Rosen has ever shown, which is nothing.  And again you are pulling one example from the 70's and ignoring the hundreds of Blaine Gabberts that came after Plunkett.  

 

Mathew Stafford has been a very good QB on a bad team, had he been drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers he would have been a great QB.  This team with a few additions and Mathew Stafford would be instant contenders.  QBs play well into their late 30's these days, he has a lot left in the tank.  But at what cost?  At least a 1st and a huge new contract.  That is the price for a franchise QB. 

 

The point I'm making is that taking a chance on the Josh Rosens and Blaine Gabberts of the world makes more sense to me than spending a fortune on Stafford.  You don't need a superstar QB to win a Super Bowl, which has been proven multiple times.  And there is definitely no guarantee that you'll get to a Super Bowl with Stafford.  He's not worth the gamble in my opinion, not when you have to make sacrifices in other areas because of his price tag.  I would rather focus on the draft and use other team's QB castoffs and maybe find a diamond in the rough over the next couple of years.

 

In the meantime, I think Smith and maybe Allen are good enough for Washington to contend in the NFC during the next couple of years.  The key is mistake-free football and both of them have played well this season.  

[moondog]

I’ll take the 3 guys on our roster right now over any other combination anyone is throwing out there. Haskins has shown no worse and imo better than anything darnold or Rosen have done and that’s more an indictment on them than anything. 
 

I don’t know much about Stafford the leader/man but I know that is as much as anything right now with our culture and going out to grab a guy like that goes against everything Rivera has done this year in the offseason and season. He wants to build his in house team. He brought in Kyle Allen but I don’t see him mortgaging for stafford when he believes in Allen. 
 

IF smith retires then I’d predict we get someone earlier than later in the draft and it’s him Allen and haskins for more in house competition which is what he’s done from day one to build this culture of earning it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

SB winning QBs post our last SB.  Not too many scrubs in that mix.  😀