Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Number 44]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Stafford would be able to come in and fix that weakness immediately. He would make Washington a team that could very well win the NFC East.

So, no change, then?  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we already a team that could very well win the NFC East?

 

Man, I'm not necessarily against trading for Stafford, but that sure is a weak argument by that website.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

His contract and cap hit are different. I don't know what percentage of cap hit remains with Detroit but according to Sportrac he's got a 35 million dollar hit for next year. 

 

I think @JSSkinz asked Joel Corry something alone these lines?  @JSSkinz do you know what the cap hit would be if we traded for Stafford?

[Darrell Green Fan]

35 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

 

 

You all just don't get it.  Smith rarely makes big mistakes that cost his team the game.  That's why Washington was 6 - 3 two years ago before he got hurt.  That's why Washington is finally winning now, two years later.  It's not a coincidence.

 

Of course Smith has had some mistakes this year.  He hasn't played in two years.  Two of those interceptions came in his first game off the bench against the Giants.

 

Your arguments are going from the sublime to the ridiculous.  So now we are giving him a pass for not playing for 2 years after you claimed he does not make the big mistake? Well 6 picks in 7 games while throwing short, safe passes says otherwise.  

 

They are winning now because the defense has finally played up to expectations and taking over games, this was not the case a month ago.  They are also winning now because they don't have Dwayne Haskins missing open receivers all over the lot.  

Edited December 17, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

So, no change, then?  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we already a team that could very well win the NFC East?

 

Man, I'm not necessarily against trading for Stafford, but that sure is a weak argument by that website.

 

I agree but I don't care about the semantics of how they explained the point.  For me its simple:

 

A.  We got potentially a killer defense

B.  We got mediocre QB play

 

If there is one thing that would derail a SB quest in the window we are in with cheap D talent it would be point B.

 

So I along with many others here want to fix point B and increase the odds of winning a SB.   I am not looking for pet theories about how to try to do it against the odds.  

 

Yeah a mediocre QB can get hot in the playoffs.  Yeah the defense might shut down dudes like Aaron Rodgers completely and a mediocre QB can win like Brunnell did against Tampa during our last playoff win.  We can replicate the Ravens SB win from eons ago with Dilfer.  Yeah all of it could happen.  But all of that is unlikely to happen.    So i am looking for ways to increase the odds to beat the house. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[NoVaSkins21]

Wishful thinking would be Deshaun Watson but O'Brien isn't the GM anymore.  A reasonable choice could Cam if Rivera wants him here or Stafford if they want to pay up for him if Detroit doesn't want him.  Everything depends on what direction Rivera believes is best for this franchise.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Your arguments are going from the sublime to the ridiculous.  So now we are giving him a pass for not playing for 2 years after you claimed he does not make the big mistake? Well 6 picks in 7 games while throwing short, safe passes says otherwise.  

 

They are winning now because the defense has finally played up to expectations and taking over games, this was not the case a month ago.  They are also winning now because they don't have Dwayne Haskins missing open receivers all over the lot.  

I severely think you're underestimating the intangibles of Smith. If you don't think the Defense is playing inspired ball because of Alex and his fight to get back on the field then you're dreaming. Also, if you don't think the competitiveness of Smith coming back from this brutal injury is a sign of his grit and determination and drive to win a superbowl then I don't know what to tell you. Lastly, he had one bad game of three INT where he was chucking it down the field. It wasn't his game and it showed. The rest of the time has been fairly safe and smart football. 

[jnhutchi3]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Your arguments are going from the sublime to the ridiculous.  So now we are giving him a pass for not playing for 2 years after you claimed he does not make the big mistake? Well 6 picks in 7 games while throwing short, safe passes says otherwise.  

 

They are winning now because the defense has finally played up to expectations and taking over games, this was not the case a month ago.  They are also winning now because they don't have Dwayne Haskins missing open receivers all over the lot.  

 

You want to know why the defense is playing better?  Because the Washington offense is not 3 and out, like they were most of the time with Haskins.  Washington is having time-consuming drives on offense, even when they don't score.  And that is because of Alex Smith.  It's called "shortening the game".  And when you shorten the game, an average team like Washington has a better chance of winning.  And that is what is happening, except for the 49ers game.  

 

Yes, please go pursue Stafford.  Let's throw the ball 40 times per game and get our asses kicked every week because the defense is always tired from being on the field 40 minutes per game.  Sounds like a great plan.

[Darrell Green Fan]

4 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

You want to know why the defense is playing better?  Because the Washington offense is not 3 and out, like they were most of the time with Haskins.  Washington is having time-consuming drives on offense, even when they don't score.  And that is because of Alex Smith.  It's called "shortening the game".  And when you shorten the game, an average team like Washington has a better chance of winning.  And that is what is happening, except for the 49ers game.  

 

Yes, please go pursue Stafford.  Let's throw the ball 40 times per game and get our asses kicked every week because the defense is always tired from being on the field 40 minutes per game.  Sounds like a great plan.

 

So far I have seen you promoting Josh Rosen, pimping Colt McCoy, claimed you don't need a star QB to win the Super Bowl and then the stats were posted to show how you were wrong. I haven't agreed with one post I've seen from you and backed up my position.  It's as if you are totally unaware that all the top teams throw the ball 40 times a game today.

 

 We are so far apart I don't see any reason to continue with you.  As I said earlier have a good day.  

Edited December 17, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[jnhutchi3]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I severely think you're underestimating the intangibles of Smith. If you don't think the Defense is playing inspired ball because of Alex and his fight to get back on the field then you're dreaming. Also, if you don't think the competitiveness of Smith coming back from this brutal injury is a sign of his grit and determination and drive to win a superbowl then I don't know what to tell you. Lastly, he had one bad game of three INT where he was chucking it down the field. It wasn't his game and it showed. The rest of the time has been fairly safe and smart football. 

 

Well said.  These guys don't understand the intangibles that Smith brings to the team.  Smith is mentally tough and he will never quit in a game when the chips are down.  Neither will his teammates, after knowing what he has gone through the past two years.  This team is a tough out right now and no one will want to play Washington if they make the playoffs.

 

Smith is a better QB than Stafford, in my humble opinion.

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

So far I have seen you promoting Josh Rosen, pimping Colt McCoy, claimed you don't need a star QB to win the Super Bowl and then the stats were posted to show how you were wrong. I haven't agreed with one post I've seen from you and backed up my position.

 

 We are so far apart I don't see any reason to continue with you.  As I said earlier have a good day.  

 

Trent Dilfer was a star QB??  Brad Johnson was a star QB??  On what planet??

 

Amazing...you got exactly NONE of that correct!  Well done!

 

Saying that McCoy was better than Cousins in 2013 - 2014 is not "pimping" him.  It's just the truth.

[mistertim]

35 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

You all just don't get it.  Smith rarely makes big mistakes that cost his team the game.  That's why Washington was 6 - 3 two years ago before he got hurt.  That's why Washington is finally winning now, two years later.  It's not a coincidence.

 

Of course Smith has had some mistakes this year.  He hasn't played in two years.  Two of those interceptions came in his first game off the bench against the Giants.

 

Smith has 4 TDs and 6 INTs this year so far. How is that not making big mistakes? We're super lucky that our defense has been playing lights out. They're the reason we're winning right now.

 

Even if he didn't have 6 INTs and "rarely makes big mistakes" still applied, he also rarely makes big plays that help his team win. He's the kind of guy you might be able to win with if you have a good run game and a dominant defense. He's definitely not the kind of guy you'll go into the playoffs with consistently. There's a reason Dilfer only went to 1 Super Bowl.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Well said.  These guys don't understand the intangibles that Smith brings to the team.  Smith is mentally tough and he will never quit in a game when the chips are down.  Neither will his teammates, after knowing what he has gone through the past two years.  This team is a tough out right now and no one will want to play Washington if they make the playoffs.

 

Smith is a better QB than Stafford, in my humble opinion.

 

Trent Dilfer was a star QB??  Brad Johnson was a star QB??  On what planet??

 

Amazing...you got exactly NONE of that correct!  Well done!

 

Saying that McCoy was better than Cousins in 2013 - 2014 is not "pimping" him.  It's just the truth.

 

I'm only continuing with you to make sure you saw my edit to that post.  It's as if you are totally unaware that every top team throws the ball 40 times a game today. 

 

I won't even go into the SB QBs, I'll just point out that you have a few examples while pretty much every other Super Bowl since 1991 has been won by a good QB with one or 2 exceptions

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Smith has 4 TDs and 6 INTs this year so far. How is that not making big mistakes? We're super lucky that our defense has been playing lights out. They're the reason we're winning right now.

 

Even if he didn't have 6 INTs and "rarely makes big mistakes" still applied, he also rarely makes big plays that help his team win. He's the kind of guy you might be able to win with if you have a good run game and a dominant defense. He's definitely not the kind of guy you'll go into the playoffs with consistently. There's a reason Dilfer only went to 1 Super Bowl.

 

 

Yeah I have no idea why this debate continues but here we are.  

[Tedskins 21]

Stafford is a surefire top 15 QB today (PFF has him at 13.)  Alex is one of the bottom starters in the league (PFF has him at 30, Haskins is 39 for reference.)  You move from a bottom half starter to an upper half starter, you significantly improve the team.  More points.  More leads being protected.  More of a chance for the defense to attack.  Synergy baby.  Stafford makes so much sense.  I just don't think the Lions get rid of him.  But we will see.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tedskins 21
Spelling

[jnhutchi3]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I'm only continuing with you to make sure you saw my edit to that post.  It's as if you are totally unaware that every top team throws the ball 40 times a game today. 

 

I won't even go into the SB QBs, I'll just point out that you have a few examples while pretty much every other Super Bowl since 1991 has been won by a good QB with one or 2 exceptions

 

Yeah I have no idea why this debate continues but here we are.  

 

So what if every top team throws the ball 40 times?  It's stupid coaching.  It's a huge reason why Pittsburgh lost to Washington.

 

Tennessee had a great playoff run last year because Derrick Henry carried that team.

 

Washington has average talent on offense.  We have to run the ball to win or run a short-pass ball control offense that eats up a lot of clock.  If you don't do that, I promise you our defense will get tired and start to suck ass, just like Marino's defense in Miami and Stafford's defense in Detroit.  I honestly don't understand what you all think you're going to get from Stafford that Smith and Allen can't already provide.  And Smith is the inspiration leading this team right now.  That is more important than any marginal upgrade to Stafford.

[PartyPosse]

The fantasy-football mindset here of just plugging and playing a guy because his stats are better are disappointing. No doubt Stafford is a better QB than Smith but does he give the team a better chance of winning the Super Bowl? Who’s to say?

[jnhutchi3]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Smith has 4 TDs and 6 INTs this year so far. How is that not making big mistakes? We're super lucky that our defense has been playing lights out. They're the reason we're winning right now.

 

Even if he didn't have 6 INTs and "rarely makes big mistakes" still applied, he also rarely makes big plays that help his team win. He's the kind of guy you might be able to win with if you have a good run game and a dominant defense. He's definitely not the kind of guy you'll go into the playoffs with consistently. There's a reason Dilfer only went to 1 Super Bowl.

 

 

The reason Dilfer only went to 1 Super Bowl is that Baltimore traded him after the season.  That was their stupid decision.

 

You don't understand how Smith shortens the game and gives Washington a chance to win, despite the evidence two years ago and the evidence now.   Stats only tell you part of the story.  Some people never learn.

[Tedskins 21]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The fantasy-football mindset here of just plugging and playing a guy because his stats are better are disappointing. No doubt Stafford is a better QB than Smith but does he give the team a better chance of winning the Super Bowl? Who’s to say?

 

Yes, he does.  But we should totally draft a kid this year, too.  Stafford, Allen, Rookie. (Assuming Alex retires.)  If Alex wants to stay, I assume Stafford is off the table.  But we will still draft a QB, and we should.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tedskins 21

[jnhutchi3]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The fantasy-football mindset here of just plugging and playing a guy because his stats are better are disappointing. No doubt Stafford is a better QB than Smith but does he give the team a better chance of winning the Super Bowl? Who’s to say?

 

I agree.  I expected to see more wisdom here.  It must be pure coincidence that Washington is finally winning again after two years with Smith as QB.  Of course.

 

Yes, at this point in their careers, Stafford may be better than Smith.  But that does not necessarily translate to more victories for Washington.  Football is a lot more complicated than that.

Edited December 17, 2020 by jnhutchi3

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

The reason Dilfer only went to 1 Super Bowl is that Baltimore traded him after the season.  That was their stupid decision.

 

You don't understand how Smith shortens the game and gives Washington a chance to win, despite the evidence two years ago and the evidence now.   Stats only tell you part of the story.  Some people never learn.

 

Absolutely zero defensive coaches are afraid of Alex Smith or our offense. He's pretty much never a threat to make any big plays. You're never going to field a perennial playoff team with a guy like that. He might help you squeak into a playoff game here or there if the defense is playing great, but that's about it.

 

It seems that you don't like that this is an offense-centric passing league now that centers around the QB for the most part. Sorry about that. But that doesn't change that it's simply a fact of the game right now. There are aberrations (Jackson in Bal) but for the most part it holds true and likely will continue to hold true. It's not the 1980s.

[PartyPosse]

5 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

I agree.  I expected to see more wisdom here.  It must be pure coincidence that Washington is finally winning again after two years with Smith as QB.  Of course.

 

Yes, at this point in their careers, Stafford may be better than Smith.  But that does not necessarily translate to more victories for Washington.  Football is a lot more complicated than that.

It kills me. I HATE Alex’s game and it frustrates me to no end. But the dude just always wins no matter where he is. I don’t think he’s had a losing record in 10 years. And it’s always because of everything else. It’s never him knowing what he needs to do and what he shouldn’t do. He knows how to read the game situations. He won’t take unnecessary risks if he doesn’t have to and he will when he does. Doesn’t always work out but that man has so much game awareness.

[redskins4ever28]

Go watch some Stafford games. Tell me if that team had even a slightly competent defense or running game over the past few years that they would not be a consistent 10+ win team. Stafford is miles better then smith. Even the Detroit fans know how much he’s carried them over the years

[PartyPosse]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

It seems that you don't like that this is an offense-centric passing league now that centers around the QB for the most part. Sorry about that. But that doesn't change that it's simply a fact of the game right now. There are aberrations (Jackson in Bal) but for the most part it holds true and likely will continue to hold true. It's not the 1980s.

3 of the 4 teams in the conference finals were run dependent teams.

[jnhutchi3]

19 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

Stafford is a surefire top 15 QB today (PFF has him at 13.)  Alex is one of the bottom starters in the league (PFF has him at 30, Haskins is 39 for reference.)  You move from a bottom half starter to an upper half starter, you significantly improve the team.  More points.  More leads being protected.  More of a chance for the defense to attack.  Synergy baby.  Stafford makes so much sense.  I just don't think the Lions get rid of him.  But we will see.

 

Sure.  Then why hasn't this happened after 10 years in Detroit?  McLaurin is the magical solution for Stafford, not Calvin Johnson?

 

Stafford throws so much, the defense in Detroit should be "attacking" their asses off.  All evidence to the contrary.

[jnhutchi3]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Absolutely zero defensive coaches are afraid of Alex Smith or our offense. He's pretty much never a threat to make any big plays. You're never going to field a perennial playoff team with a guy like that. He might help you squeak into a playoff game here or there if the defense is playing great, but that's about it.

 

It seems that you don't like that this is an offense-centric passing league now that centers around the QB for the most part. Sorry about that. But that doesn't change that it's simply a fact of the game right now. There are aberrations (Jackson in Bal) but for the most part it holds true and likely will continue to hold true. It's not the 1980s.

 

So what if they're not afraid of Smith?  Winning is all I care about.  And that's what Smith does.  I hope they continue being unafraid and Smith keeps picking them apart.

 

Let other teams like Pittsburgh throw 50 times per game and lose.  I'll take Smith winning ugly any day.  You don't understand the intangibles that Smith brings to a team and I doubt you ever will.

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Sure.  Then why hasn't this happened after 10 years in Detroit?  McLaurin is the magical solution for Stafford, not Calvin Johnson?

 

Stafford throws so much, the defense in Detroit should be "attacking" their asses off.  All evidence to the contrary.

 

I can't tell if you really believe this stuff or you really are that glib. Stafford has been very productive and pretty efficient. He doesn't need McLaurin to rescue his production. It's already 5 miles better than that of Alex Smith. Detroit has never surrounded him with a team. 
 

And the league is a passing league now. A few teams make it interesting by bucking the trend and implementing run heavy schemes. This can be effective as it plays off of league defenses gearing up to stop the pass. But, who won the Super Bowl? The best QB. Coached by Andy Reid. It's not a passing league by accident. The league has intentionally changed the rules and the enforcement of the rules to make it so.

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

The fantasy-football mindset here of just plugging and playing a guy because his stats are better are disappointing. No doubt Stafford is a better QB than Smith but does he give the team a better chance of winning the Super Bowl? Who’s to say?

It’s a little nerve wrecking. People are willing to trade for Stafford, his contract and assets and it scares the **** out of me for where their minds are.

 

The window point is the big one that I have trouble gripping. I don’t want a small one or two year window... Not only do you need the horses to succeed with that approach but you have to be lucky, too, with injuries.

 

Trading multiple assets is eschewing the future in order to gamble that the asset you are acquiring stays healthy, plays similarly or better in their new environment and that they fit within the organization and they are comfortable. 
 

A window is something bad franchises chase. Good organizations strive for continued excellence. 
 

Making short sighted moves is a real big mistake.