Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

duplicate post

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I see no lies...

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Regarding Mac Jones, I can see having a gambling mentality with QB's. I certainly believe in investing in the position until you find a guy. But spending a mid first on a guy with, let's say, a 25% of hitting, feels like a waste. If I ask myself, would you rather have a 1st round LT, or a guy that has a 25% chance of being a quality QB in 2-3 years, it's just hard to get excited. I think I'd rather put together a huge package to move up, or take a shot after the 1st and maybe even 2nd round. 

 

QBs especially the perceived 2nd tier types are so hard to guess.  Some here and some media types love to keep hyping how this perceived 2nd tier type or that one succeeded in the past so hey its plenty doable. But at the same time a lot of these guys fail.  So i am not betting on any QB that i call a roll of the dice QB.

 

Everything being equal, I 'd rather go for broke and shoot for Fields or Wilson.  If the draft ends up with Cincy at 3 and SD at 4, I think the odds are good that one of those teams will auction their pick and some team is trading up for one of those QBs.  I'd bet that once the season is over, there will be plenty of rumors about us moving up to grab one of them.  Will see. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[jnhutchi3]

21 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

I don't get these physical tools comments.  Yes Haskins is big, he can stand and take a hit, and he can throw the ball hard/far.  But he can't PASS.  That's just a natural gift and he can not do it. 

 

Neither Haskins or Cam are on this roster next year.  Like many have said, Alex is an uncertainty.  But even if he wants to be here, we still need to upgrade. 

 

If Kyle wasn't hurt, I am convinced we would have rolled into the draft without a FA signing at QB.  But if Alex retires, due to Kyle's injury, we make a move for another Vet.  The only ones that truly upgrade our situation are probably Stafford (without giving up major assets) and Phillip.  But I think they go mid-level QB, say Fitz, and then draft someone high.  At least, that would be my preference.

 

 

Agreed.  And if he wasn't injured, we wouldn't have had as much pressure to upgrade in FA.  But we will sign/trade for someone else.  I am certain, though, Cam isn't going to be that guy.  Stafford would really put us over the top IMO.  Then draft someone to sit behind he and Kyle (this is all assuming Alex isn't back.)

 

Yeah, I don't know how Haskins threw so many TDs at Ohio State.  His receivers must have been on an island all by themselves.  Now I remember why college football is such bull****.

[NoCalMike]

8 minutes ago, jnhutchi3 said:

 

Yeah, I don't know how Haskins threw so many TDs at Ohio State.  His receivers must have been on an island all by themselves.  Now I remember why college football is such bull****.

 Because in a lot of division 1A schools you basically drop back and are just heaving the ball downfield and letting the WR track the ball.  You have future NFL WR's running routes against future beer truck drivers or amazon delivery drivers.  

[jnhutchi3]

2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 Because in a lot of division 1A schools you basically drop back and are just heaving the ball downfield and letting the WR track the ball.  You have future NFL WR's running routes against future beer truck drivers or amazon delivery drivers.  

 

LOL!  Great line!

[TheShredder]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Everything being equal, I 'd rather go for broke and shoot for Fields or Wilson.

I view Wilson as a more likely target as they could possibly get him without breaking the draft bank.  He could fall a bit and they'd be able to trade conservatively to get him onboard.  He'd be a Josh Allen type guy who'd need a couple of years to put it together.  That's in the realm of possibilities for sure.

[Tedskins 21]

11 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

I view Wilson as a more likely target as they could possibly get him without breaking the draft bank.  He could fall a bit and they'd be able to trade conservatively to get him onboard.  He'd be a Josh Allen type guy who'd need a couple of years to put it together.  That's in the realm of possibilities for sure.

 

Wilson will be a top 10 if not top 5 pick.  Not sure how much it would take to trade with say, the Bengals, to get in position to grab him, but I am totally onboard with it.

 

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Everything being equal, I 'd rather go for broke and shoot for Fields or Wilson.  If the draft ends up with Cincy at 3 and SD at 4, I think the odds are good that one of those teams will auction their pick and some team is trading up for one of those QBs.  I'd bet that once the season is over, there will be plenty of rumors about us moving up to grab one of them.  Will see. 

 

I don't want any part of Fields.  Big10 QBs scare me.  He seems to have a clean pocket and open guys every play.  I'm fully in on Zach.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Tedskins 21

[HigSkin]

I didn't see this one posted from JP Finlay today.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/one-qb-move-makes-ton-sense-washington-sign-kyle-allen

 

There's one QB move that makes a ton of sense for Washington

 

What?

 

It’s actually quite simple. Allen won’t cost much, especially working back from a broken ankle, and he knows offensive coordinator Scott Turner's system inside and out.

 

Whatever Washington does to fix their long-term need at QB, Allen helps get them there.

 

If they keep Alex Smith, then Allen is the backup.  

 

If they repair the relationship with Dwayne Haskins, then Ron Rivera finally gets to see the preseason competition he wanted in 2020 between the former first-rounder and Allen, only it happens in 2021.

 

If they draft a new hot-shot first-round rookie? Allen can provide guidance, competition and maybe even start the first half of the 2021 season as needed.

What if they sign a veteran QB, knowing that the defense in 2021 could be good enough to compete at the upper reaches of the NFC? Then they have the perfect backup in Allen.

 

Allen's stats aren't jaw-dropping - he's a career 63-percent passer with 23 TDs against 17 INTs with an average of about 220 passing yards-per-game. Ask around the NFL and the upside for Allen is actually quite reminiscent of Colt McCoy - great in the locker room and QB room, and good enough on the field to help for a few games. 

[TheShredder]

13 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Wilson will be a top 10 if not top 5 pick.  Not sure how much it would take to trade with say, the Bengals, to get in position to grab him, but I am totally onboard with it.

No, his draft stock and Heisman talk just deflated with his poor performance in the NY6 Bowl. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/byu-qb-zach-wilson-s-heisman-buzz-went-kaput-in-loss-to-coastal-carolina-but-it-was-fun-while-it-lasted/ar-BB1bNiVD

BYU QB Zach Wilson’s Heisman buzz went kaput in loss to Coastal Carolina, but it was fun while it lasted.

[TheShredder]

If they don't go All-in with Alex Smith in 2021 then I'd expect them to make the QB position a competition with Allen, Haskins, and someone like Tyrod Taylor.  In a 3-way competition I'd think Tyrod would win and they could do just about anything with Haskins.

[Tedskins 21]

21 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

No, his draft stock and Heisman talk just deflated with his poor performance in the NY6 Bowl. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/byu-qb-zach-wilson-s-heisman-buzz-went-kaput-in-loss-to-coastal-carolina-but-it-was-fun-while-it-lasted/ar-BB1bNiVD

BYU QB Zach Wilson’s Heisman buzz went kaput in loss to Coastal Carolina, but it was fun while it lasted.

 

I watched the game, did you? Even with the loss, you can see he has the skillset needed to make it at the next level.  We have 5 months between now and the draft.  Once workouts, interviews, etc. have taken place, he's going to fly up the boards.  It happens with prospects all the time.

 

(Also, that game was not a bowl game.)

 

15 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

If they don't go All-in with Alex Smith in 2021 then I'd expect them to make the QB position a competition with Allen, Haskins, and someone like Tyrod Taylor.  In a 3-way competition I'd think Tyrod would win and they could do just about anything with Haskins.

 

I wouldn't mind Tyrod being brought in, but Haskins won't be here.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Tedskins 21

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

QBs especially the perceived 2nd tier types are so hard to guess.  Some here and some media types love to keep hyping how this perceived 2nd tier type or that one succeeded in the past so hey its plenty doable. But at the same time a lot of these guys fail.  So i am not betting on any QB that i call a roll of the dice QB.

 

Everything being equal, I 'd rather go for broke and shoot for Fields or Wilson.  If the draft ends up with Cincy at 3 and SD at 4, I think the odds are good that one of those teams will auction their pick and some team is trading up for one of those QBs.  I'd bet that once the season is over, there will be plenty of rumors about us moving up to grab one of them.  Will see. 

Say the team is is pick 19-23, what are you giving up to move to 3 or 4?

 

Only reference trade I can think of is when Falcons moved up to get Julio. What are some other examples of teams moving up that far into the top 5? My guess it would cost 3 first round picks and a couple 2s. 

 

I’m with you on being aggressive if they LOVE one of the top tier QBs in the draft. 

[method man]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Say the team is is pick 19-23, what are you giving up to move to 3 or 4?

 

Only reference trade I can think of is when Falcons moved up to get Julio. What are some other examples of teams moving up that far into the top 5? My guess it would cost 3 first round picks and a couple 2s. 

 

I’m with you on being aggressive if they LOVE one of the top tier QBs in the draft. 

 

What you are proposing is unheard of. I think we are looking at 2 1sts, a Day 2 pick or two, perhaps some pick swaps and a player being included in the deal...could be this year's first, next year's first, this year's 2nd and Settle

[Number 44]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Say the team is is pick 19-23, what are you giving up to move to 3 or 4?

 

Only reference trade I can think of is when Falcons moved up to get Julio. What are some other examples of teams moving up that far into the top 5? My guess it would cost 3 first round picks and a couple 2s. 

 

I’m with you on being aggressive if they LOVE one of the top tier QBs in the draft. 

[carex]

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

No, his draft stock and Heisman talk just deflated with his poor performance in the NY6 Bowl. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/byu-qb-zach-wilson-s-heisman-buzz-went-kaput-in-loss-to-coastal-carolina-but-it-was-fun-while-it-lasted/ar-BB1bNiVD

BYU QB Zach Wilson’s Heisman buzz went kaput in loss to Coastal Carolina, but it was fun while it lasted.

 

inflated and deflated.  Hell maybe we do get him but go for him later then

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Say the team is is pick 19-23, what are you giving up to move to 3 or 4?

 

Only reference trade I can think of is when Falcons moved up to get Julio. What are some other examples of teams moving up that far into the top 5? My guess it would cost 3 first round picks and a couple 2s. 

 

I’m with you on being aggressive if they LOVE one of the top tier QBs in the draft. 

 

I've talked about it some in the draft thread, it wouldn't be easy.  It would somewhat depend if there is seriouis competion for the pick.  We haven't seen three first rounders and a 2nd -- since 2012 let alone that with another 2nd rounder to boot as you mention.  Some draft observers think the RG3 trade was the ultimate overpayment and we will never see a bounty that big ever again.  Other teams though have come close. 

 

I've talked about in the draft thread about how the Eagles traded up multiple times to get to #2, in their case from 13.  Rams moved to #1 from 15.  

 

For them to do this, they'd have to love Fields or Wilson whomever is left, you wouldn't do it if you just liked them.  Obviously it would be better if one of them dropped further down in the draft where the compensation wouldn't have to be crazy high. 

 

https://theathletic.com/533353/2018/09/19/from-13-to-2-the-inside-story-of-how-the-eagles-moved-up-twice-to-draft-carson-wentz/

...the Eagles would not have been able to match the price paid by the Rams. In order to move up to No. 1, the Rams sent Tennessee the No. 15 pick, their two 2016 second-round picks, a 2016 third-round pick, a 2017 first-round pick and a 2017 third-round pick. The Titans sent back fourth- and sixth-round picks in 2016 to even the ledger.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

https://theathletic.com/533353/2018/09/19/from-13-to-2-the-inside-story-of-how-the-eagles-moved-up-twice-to-draft-carson-wentz/

...the Eagles would not have been able to match the price paid by the Rams. In order to move up to No. 1, the Rams sent Tennessee the No. 15 pick, their two 2016 second-round picks, a 2016 third-round pick, a 2017 first-round pick and a 2017 third-round pick. The Titans sent back fourth- and sixth-round picks in 2016 to even the ledger.

 

So, two 1sts, two 2nds, and two 3rds. That's steep but they had to get to 1st overall from 15. If we go from 19 to 6, I would expect a lower price. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

 

So, two 1sts, two 2nds, and two 3rds. That's steep but they had to get to 1st overall from 15. If we go from 19 to 6, I would expect a lower price. 

 

Yeah I'd sort of have a Zen approach, I'd be willing to overpay but nothing crazy.  Let things play out and see how it goes.  There is limit to how much I'd pay.  I like how the Eagles crept up the draft in multiple trades involving players.  I do think though its a bigger premium to trade up to #1 or #2.  

 

https://theathletic.com/533353/2018/09/19/from-13-to-2-the-inside-story-of-how-the-eagles-moved-up-twice-to-draft-carson-wentz/

In the wake of the Rams-Titans trade, the Browns had set the price high for the No. 2 pick and they were unwilling to budge. Roseman tried everything he could think of during phone calls — never texts (“I’m 43 years old, man, we talk on the phone”) — to bring the price down to no avail. At one point, Lurie himself talked on the phone to Brown in an effort to reduce the price slightly, something like the difference between a future second- and third-round pick.

“(Lurie) was like, ‘This is fair.’ And Sashi was like, ‘Mr. Lurie, I respect that opinion. This is the price,'” Roseman says. “I remember he walked out of my office and he was like, ‘Just do it.’ He was frustrated, and I was at the point where I was gonna pay it.”

There were two bits of good news, though. First, there didn’t appear to be a second bidder this time around. Second, the Browns themselves were not Wentz suitors. It was an open secret around the league that the Rams were going to draft Goff first overall and, even though they needed a quarterback, the Browns were not interested in Wentz, the FCS quarterback. The publicly available analytic models for projecting college quarterbacks tend to dislike players who played at a lower level, especially those with only two seasons as a starter.

 

On April 20, six days after losing out on the No. 1 pick and eight days before the draft itself, the Eagles paid up to get to No. 2. The cost was substantial — the No. 8 pick, a 2016 third-round pick, a 2016 fourth-round pick, a 2017 first-round pick and a 2018 second-round pick. The Browns also sent back a fourth-rounder in 2017. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught up with Stafford material.  Some  of their media thinks it could happen and multiple reporters think they can get at least a #1 for him. 

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

Allen, Fitzmagic, DH and Montez next year IF we don't sign Cam as a free agent.....sit pat and see which QB falls to us in the draft. I saw a mock today where Lance falls to us at 19. Still a chance that luck breaks our way for those wanting a QB in the 1st round next year. 

If we do sign Cam, it's him, Allen and Montez....DH is gone to the best offer....draft best available LB or O-line in the 1st round. 

I would actually love seeing Fitzmagic with this team for a year, with the great defense we have. He could make it work.

[redskins4ever28]

I can’t believe more people aren’t entertaining the thought that we could get Stafford. The dude a baller. And just because the lions sucked for so long he never got the credit he deserved

Edited December 17, 2020 by redskins4ever28

[sjinhan]

I think in the past we had trouble attracting veteran QBs with enough in the tank because our overall team was too weak to compete.  If you have options as a QB with still something left then why would you come to WFT other than money.  Most of these QBs already made their money so most are looking for a title contender.

 

Now with all of the attention our defense is getting and the reputation of Rivera, I think we will have a legit shot of attracting QB talent.

 

Trading for Stafford and QB alike him is one thing but what about attracting QB like Rivers who will most likely be on the FA.  Clearly he has something left in the tank and it will be a massive upgrade over what we have on the roster.  Best thing is that we could potentially get him without trading anything away.

[redskins4ever28]

2 minutes ago, sjinhan said:

I think in the past we had trouble attracting veteran QBs with enough in the tank because our overall team was too weak to compete.  If you have options as a QB with still something left then why would you come to WFT other than money.  Most of these QBs already made their money so most are looking for a title contender.

 

Now with all of the attention our defense is getting and the reputation of Rivera, I think we will have a legit shot of attracting QB talent.

 

Trading for Stafford and QB alike him is one thing but what about attracting QB like Rivers who will most likely be on the FA.  Clearly he has something left in the tank and it will be a massive upgrade over what we have on the roster.  Best thing is that we could potentially get him without trading anything away.

Rivers is 39

stafford is 36, I believe.**hes actually only 32? What the hell?***

and stafford (in my opinion) is head and shoulders above rivers. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by redskins4ever28

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just caught up with Stafford material.  Some  of their media thinks it could happen and multiple reporters think they can get at least a #1 for him. 

 

 

 

 

Stafford's about to be 33.  I wouldn't trade a 1st for a guy that age. 

 

But, Stafford and a FA WR and this defense could be really good.