2020 Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Doesn't sound promising for Alex

 

My thoughts, too. Remember all the angst about "What if Smith starts ahead of Haskins" being pushed by the media?...Don't recall too many "What if Smith is cut from the team?" articles lol...

[Burgundy Yoda]

17 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Doesn't sound promising for Alex

Keim already predicted he wouldn't make the 53. I think he would be really helpful for Dwayne. I don't think he should see the field but he has value as a QB3 mentor

 

[Jericho]

But then there's the question of what to do with Alex? There's only 3 options: (1) 53 man roster; (2) IR; or (3) cut. But again, IR requires an actual injury. I get Alex is rusty and requires time, but that's not really an injury. I'm reminded of those Cheating Death segments with Dr. Stephen T. Colbert and the various side effects that would come up, like autonomous nipple, restless torso syndrome, late onset albinoism, or wondering genital syndrome. I feel something like that is just going to be made up for some of these players.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, Jericho said:

But then there's the question of what to do with Alex? There's only 3 options: (1) 53 man roster; (2) IR; or (3) cut.

 

I thought the PS was an option?

[Malapropismic Depository]

6 minutes ago, Jericho said:

But then there's the question of what to do with Alex? There's only 3 options: (1) 53 man roster; (2) IR; or (3) cut. But again, IR requires an actual injury.

 

There is a 4th actually.

Might sound crazy initially, but Alex Smith technically could go to the Practice Squad, since the 2020 rules allow 6 players on PS with no eligibility restrictions.

Not sure how realistic it is, but it's a possibility

[Jericho]

38 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I thought the PS was an option?

 

Well, you'd have to cut him first and then he'd have to agree to come back. So it's really still just cutting him for cap purposes

[HTTRDynasty]

Thankful we no longer need this guy:

 

 

But hoping this doesn't mean Dallas is signing Earl Thomas.

 

 

[Fresh8686]

Man, there are some interesting guys that might get cut this week according to this athletic article.

 

https://theathletic.com/2042496/2020/09/03/cbs-wanted-a-look-at-all-32-teams-needs-and-gluts-heading-into-cut-down-day/

 

Arizona Cardinals

Need: Cornerback. Robert Alford suffered a season-ending pectoral injury last month, robbing the defense of a projected starter opposite Patrick Peterson.

Glut: Receiver. DeAndre Hopkins, Larry Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk might be as good as any trio in the NFL. The Cardinals also have high hopes for 2019 second-round pick Andy Isabella. That means Hakeem Butler, a 2019 fourth-round pick, could get cut. — Doug Haller

 

Baltimore Ravens

Need: Safety. A case could be made for a backup offensive tackle or a No. 3 tight end, but the Earl Thomas release leaves the Ravens with very little experience and depth at safety. They seem content starting DeShon Elliott alongside Chuck Clark, but there are questions behind them.

Glut: Interior offensive line. The Ravens have seven interior offensive linemen for maybe five total spots. They wouldn’t fetch a significant return obviously, but a veteran like D.J. Fluker or Ben Powers, a fourth-round pick last year, could probably be had for a late Day 3 draft pick. — Jeff Zrebiec

 

Cincinnati Bengals

Need: Cornerback. The pectoral injury to starter Trae Waynes already had made the group thin, and projected replacement Darius Phillips has missed the last week with a leg injury. The rest of the group, beyond William Jackson and slot Mackensie Alexander, is filled with questions and inexperience.

Glut: Receiver. The Bengals loaded up at the position due to ongoing injury issues with A.J. Green and John Ross, but both are trending toward being healthy for the opener. With strong camps by back-end guys such as Auden Tate and Alex Erickson, plus the promise of second-round pick Tee Higgins, there are going to be some tough decisions on cutdown day. The team already released last year’s Week 1 starter Damion Willis, and they are going to be forced to cut a few more who could probably make the 53 elsewhere and hope they go unclaimed so they can load the practice squad with three, maybe four receivers. — Jay Morrison

 

Chicago Bears

Need: Offensive line. Is Germain Ifedi really the answer at right guard? Can a developmental tackle be found? The Bears’ issues on offense might start with concerns at quarterback — is Nick Foles really better than Mitch Trubisky — but improvements up front are still needed for the long term, too.

Glut: Tight end. The Bears feel so good about the changes they’ve made at tight end after it was arguably their worst position in 2019 that keeping five of them on the roster is a real possibility. The Bears could be waiving Jesper Horsted, a second-year player who fits the mold of the move tight ends you now see around the league, or Eric Saubert, who had an impressive camp behind Jimmy Graham and Cole Kmet. — Adam Jahns

 

Houston Texans

Need: Cornerback. Houston returns mostly the same underwhelming group from a year ago, and Gareon Conley, who is one of the team’s top corners, had quiet camp following offseason ankle surgery. Between Conley’s underwhelming performance and backup Phillip Gaines missing practically all of camp with an injury that should keep him off the 53-man roster, the Texans could use another outside corner.

Glut: Tight end. Jordan Thomas, a third-year pro, and Kahale Warring, a 2019 third-round pick who spent his rookie year on IR, are in close competition, but they probably aren’t good enough for Houston to justify keeping four tight ends. — Aaron Reiss

 

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Need: Outside linebacker. They could use a little more proven depth at outside linebacker, where they’re extremely young behind starters Shaq Barrett and Jason Pierre-Paul. They like second-year pro Anthony Nelson as the third, and see upside in young guys like Cam Gill and Quinton Bell, but there’s little insulation against one of the top two guys being lost to injury.

Glut: Tight end. The Bucs were deep at tight end before they added Rob Gronkowski, so if they only keep four, it likely means that Tanner Hudson, who has great hands and shined in the 2019 preseason, would miss the cut. It’s unlikely he’d command a draft pick in a trade, but very possible he would get claimed and give a team a nice pass-catching option. — Greg Auman

 

Washington Football team

Need: Offensive tackle. The 49ers’ acquisition of Trent Williams seems like a steal, and it left a sizable hole in Washington that I’m not convinced Geron Christian, Sr. is prepared to fill. He said he’s always had the talent but hasn’t been as aggressive as he’s needed to be the last two seasons, and the jury is still out on if this “more aggressive” Christian is really up to the task. The fact the team just made a trade with the Las Vegas Raiders on Tuesday night and Ron Rivera’s comments that the new addition could possibly be in contention down the road, combined with the disappointment rookie Saahdiq Charles was never able to practice during Phase 3, makes me think the coaching staff isn’t 100 percent sold either.

Glut: Defensive line. There are so many good options for depth on the line beyond the top eight players in the rotation. Washington has players like Jordan Brailford, James Smith-Williams and Ryan Bee on the outside looking in, even though they all had outstanding camps and primarily played with the second unit. But with four first-rounders and a second-rounder already in the mix, it was always going to be a tall task for those players as the coaching staff likely keeps nine players in these groups for the active roster. — Rhiannon Walker

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Anyone hear anything about Moss?

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Anyone hear anything about Moss?

He reverted to IR officially I believe, so he’s done for this season since it happened before cut downs.

[Koolblue13]

Damn

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

28 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Thankful we no longer need this guy:

 

 

But hoping this doesn't mean Dallas is signing Earl Thomas.

 

 

 

They played against him with us, they knew what he couldn't do.  I'm still baffled that they decided to give him that much money.  I was seriously excited for him to start against us though.  I don't wish ill on the player, I just wanted to exploit him since he's bad.

[Dexter]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

They played against him with us, they knew what he couldn't do.  I'm still baffled that they decided to give him that much money.  I was seriously excited for him to start against us though.  I don't wish ill on the player, I just wanted to exploit him since he's bad.

Agreed....he just played super soft.  Really surprised how he didn't want to stick it in there and be aggressive as a tackler.  Also shocked he was supposed to be a ball hawk and struggled there too.  He was just perfect for Dallas....I'm sure Earl Thomas will be a Cowboy.

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Man, there are some interesting guys that might get cut this week according to this athletic article.

 

Hakeem Butler is the guy I really want.  We need a vet receiver pretty badly, but he's the young prospect that interests me.  There is no way he's not better than Cam Sims and Dontrelle Inman right now.

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

Man, there are some interesting guys that might get cut this week according to this athletic article.

 

Glut: Defensive line. There are so many good options for depth on the line beyond the top eight players in the rotation. Washington has players like Jordan Brailford, James Smith-Williams and Ryan Bee on the outside looking in, even though they all had outstanding camps and primarily played with the second unit. But with four first-rounders and a second-rounder already in the mix, it was always going to be a tall task for those players as the coaching staff likely keeps nine players in these groups for the active roster. — Rhiannon Walker

 

 

 

 

Yep, a lot of teams will keep an eye on any DL that we cut.

Likewise we should keep an eye on any cuts from teams that have excess talent at OL, TE, WR, or Safety...and maybe even LB

Wow, reading that last sentence of mine, is eye-opening about how many holes we still have

[CommanderInTheRye]

46 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Thankful we no longer need this guy:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

5 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

My guess is Charles hits IR before Love / Smith / Foster do. 

 

I miss it what happened?

[wilco_holland]

30 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Man, there are some interesting guys that might get cut this week according to this athletic article.

 

https://theathletic.com/2042496/2020/09/03/cbs-wanted-a-look-at-all-32-teams-needs-and-gluts-heading-into-cut-down-day/

 

Lots of teams with to many TE's. Could become interesting if our guys can keep there spot. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Not to be that guy but if Alex Smith is cut does he still get all of his money?

 

Do we get additional cap space either  this year or next or is there a cap acceleration this year?

 

[nonniey]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

There is a 4th actually.

Might sound crazy initially, but Alex Smith technically could go to the Practice Squad, since the 2020 rules allow 6 players on PS with no eligibility restrictions.

Not sure how realistic it is, but it's a possibility

You have to cut the player first before you can sign him to the practice squad.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

I'm not sure. I think this defense is a middle of pack unit with high end potential in the top 10 and low end being around 20ish.

 

12-18 range type of defense.

 

 

For funsies...going to compare all of the Top 2 pick D-Lineman drafted in the past 20 years, and how well the defenses played by DVOA before and in their rookie year.

 

Cleveland - #1 pick Courtney Brown

Before: 31

After: 25

Washington - #2 pick Lavar Arrington

Before: 24

After: 10

Carolina - #2 Julius Peppers

Before: 21

After: 3

Houston - #1 Mario Williams

Before: 32

After: 31

St. Louis - #2 Chris Long

Before: 26

After: 30

Detroit - #2 Ndamukong Suh

Before: 32

After: 22

Denver - #2 Von Miller

Before: 30

After: 18

Houston - #1 Jadaveon Clowney 

Before: 18

After: 6 (although he only played in 2 games, defense was ranked 8th in his next season)

Cleveland - #1 Myles Garrett

Before: 30

After: 16

San Francisco - #2 Nick Bosa

Before: 23

After: 2

 

Average defensive jump: 10.4 spots

 

We were ranked 24th defensively last season.  Your guess of a 12-18 ranking when factoring in a premier defensive talent joining the team seems reasonable.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Master Blaster said:

 

I miss it what happened?

 

 

Saadiq Charles... he participated in the first practice, hasn't participated since.  Done some side work on the rehab field but no actual practice reps.  He's a rookie coming in with no camp, OTA or preseason.  It's likely it will be at least 3 weeks AFTER he takes his first full practice rep that he'll even be ready to try and push for starting reps. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

For funsies...going to compare all of the Top 2 pick D-Lineman drafted in the past 20 years, and how well the defenses played by DVOA before and in their rookie year.

 

Cleveland - #1 pick Courtney Brown

Before: 31

After: 25

Washington - #2 pick Lavar Arrington

Before: 24

After: 10

Carolina - #2 Julius Peppers

Before: 21

After: 3

Houston - #1 Mario Williams

Before: 32

After: 31

St. Louis - #2 Chris Long

Before: 26

After: 30

Detroit - #2 Ndamukong Suh

Before: 32

After: 22

Denver - #2 Von Miller

Before: 30

After: 18

Houston - #1 Jadaveon Clowney 

Before: 18

After: 6 (although he only played in 2 games, defense was ranked 8th in his next season)

Cleveland - #1 Myles Garrett

Before: 30

After: 16

San Francisco - #2 Nick Bosa

Before: 23

After: 2

 

Average defensive jump: 10.4 spots

 

We were ranked 24th defensively last season.  Your guess of a 12-18 ranking when factoring in a premier defensive talent joining the team seems reasonable.

 

This is good stuff.  When you look at only the truly elite NFL pass rushers - Peppers, Suh, Miller, Garrett, Bosa - the average jump is much higher.  Young can obviously be that sort of player for us, so it will be interesting to see if this trend holds true.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

For funsies...going to compare all of the Top 2 pick D-Lineman drafted in the past 20 years, and how well the defenses played by DVOA before and in their rookie year.

 

Cleveland - #1 pick Courtney Brown

Before: 31

After: 25

Washington - #2 pick Lavar Arrington

Before: 24

After: 10

Arrington was a linebacker.  Other than that, nice read.  Can you do a twist on this?  Take a handful of HOF DEs and then do the same comparison.  BTW, wasn't Arrington during Martyball's only year here?  Shottenheimer made our below-average defense fairly stingy ("stinjy") and made our offense even stingier.

[Playaction2Sanders]

31 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Arrington was a linebacker.  Other than that, nice read.  Can you do a twist on this?  Take a handful of HOF DEs and then do the same comparison.  BTW, wasn't Arrington during Martyball's only year here?  Shottenheimer made our below-average defense fairly stingy ("stinjy") and made our offense even stingier.

That was a Norv pick in his last year. 2000. What a year, so much promise, then we lose Westbrook in week 2,  with no depth at WR since we were spoiled by the fact Westbrook and Connell played all of '99, there went our passing game, Connell wasn't a #1 and our offense struggled as all defenses had to worry about was Stephen Davis.. With Samuels and Arrington I thought they played ok, that defense was a SB defense though despite the 8-8 record when you looked at them statistically. Arrington came into his own during Marty ball and I wanna say during half of the Ol'ball coaches tenure but it was a short time of dominance for him.. Gibbs comes back and Lavar's play declined hard and he was out of the league without and afterthought due to the emergence of ST and the Gregg Williams defense which made him expendable..