A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Zim489]

So the giants are bringing in two good possible GM hires from good franchises in the chiefs and titans. While Ron goes and hires 3 utterly failed ex GMs. Stuff like that is why I dont really have trust in Ron. he values relationships over talent way too much.

[Wildbunny]

57 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

So the giants are bringing in two good possible GM hires from good franchises in the chiefs and titans. While Ron goes and hires 3 utterly failed ex GMs. Stuff like that is why I dont really have trust in Ron. he values relationships over talent way too much.

Sadly that's a commonon trait at work. Happens in every company, all the time. You tend to see people you know with higher regard than unknowns.

 

I'm not condemning him for this, as it's not easy to say "I know this guy, he's cool working with, but he's not great at his job".

 

But sometimes yeah, it would be smarter to think out of the box, and I'm not thrilled about the FO Ron has put up.

 

At the very least, those are people he still choose and was not forced to work with by Dan, which would have been even worse.

[Conn]

Excellent thread here, worth clicking and reading the whole thing. I’ve been saying exactly this, and for the same reasons (without the fancy analytics to back it up), for years:

 

 

Very very difficult to build a consistent winner around a young QB when the moment he produces well and shows he’s being developed, his OC almost automatically gets hired away to be a HC somewhere else. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by ConnSKINS26

[CobraCommander]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

So the giants are bringing in two good possible GM hires from good franchises in the chiefs and titans. While Ron goes and hires 3 utterly failed ex GMs. Stuff like that is why I dont really have trust in Ron. he values relationships over talent way too much.

Wait, who is our third GM? I know we have Hurney and Mayhew. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Florgon79

[Die Hard]

7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Excellent thread here, worth clicking and reading the whole thing. I’ve been saying exactly this, and for the same reasons (without the fancy analytics to back it up), for years:

 

 

Very very difficult to build a consistent winner around a young QB when the moment he produces well and shows he’s being developed, his OC almost automatically gets hired away to be a HC somewhere else. 

At least that’s the best way for the current (and foreseeable) NFL.

 

The NFL has been trending toward offense just like every major professional sport, in their bid to increase entertainment value and viewership.

 

So its been a passing league, with a franchise QB as a buy in.

 

Ive found defensive HCs often tend to neuter the offence/QB (play conservatively); not a good development path for a franchise Qb. They want game managers and they are typically vets.

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Flores fired?

 

UNREAL.  Who do the Dolphins think they are?

Total morons!

 

Oh, who do they think they are. Sorry, misread the question.

7 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Ron Rivera is far from a nonsense type of guy.

You have to wonder how can he cohabit with Dan in any way.

They're doing well now. For nearly a week. 

 

[method man]

6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Brian will get another head coaching job.

Dolphins fans I know are pissed. They think Grier was the one who should’ve been fired.

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

Sadly that's a commonon trait at work. Happens in every company, all the time. You tend to see people you know with higher regard than unknowns.

 

I'm not condemning him for this, as it's not easy to say "I know this guy, he's cool working with, but he's not great at his job".

 

But sometimes yeah, it would be smarter to think out of the box, and I'm not thrilled about the FO Ron has put up.

 

At the very least, those are people he still choose and was not forced to work with by Dan, which would have been even worse.

If there are legit criticisms of Rivera it would be that he seems to have no imagination and is overloyal. Gibbs at his best was over loyal, but he was incredibly imaginative and adaptable.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

Wait, who is our third GM? I know we have Hurney and Mayhew. 

Isn’t it Bill Polian’s son?

[Zim489]

5 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

But sometimes yeah, it would be smarter to think out of the box, and I'm not thrilled about the FO Ron has put up.

I personally feel its one of the worst in the league. 

[Zim489]

4 hours ago, Die Hard said:

At least that’s the best way for the current (and foreseeable) NFL.

 

The NFL has been trending toward offense just like every major professional sport, in their bid to increase entertainment value and viewership.

 

So its been a passing league, with a franchise QB as a buy in.

 

Ive found defensive HCs often tend to neuter the offence/QB (play conservatively); not a good development path for a franchise Qb. They want game managers and they are typically vets.

 

 

This is why I wasnt high on Ron being hired. I thought he would at least stabilize the franchise and put a good FO in place. Hasnt been close to the case.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I almost typed, "I hope this doesn't tee up Flores to go to the Giants," but then quickly remembered it was Gettleman that retired earlier today and that Joe Judge still somehow retained his position.

 

[88Comrade2000]

7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I almost typed, "I hope this doesn't tee up Flores to go to the Giants," but then quickly remembered it was Gettleman that retired earlier today and that Joe Judge still somehow retained his position.

 

Joe Judge isn’t a lock to keep his job. If their Gm candidates say they want their own coach to take the job; then the Giants may bite the bullet and fire Judge.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Joe Judge isn’t a lock to keep his job. If their Gm candidates say they want their own coach to take the job; then the Giants may bite the bullet and fire Judge.

 

It's interesting, because Mara said earlier that Judge and Daniel Jones would be back. But you are right with Gettleman retiring, that opens the door for a new GM to give Judge the boot and also Daniel Jones. He has shown he is not a franchise QB but they seemed committed to giving him one more season. Maybe that changes. Should be interesting. They have 2 picks in the top 8 if I remember correctly. So they will have the resources to get what they want. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

It's interesting, because Mara said earlier that Judge and Daniel Jones would be back. But you are right with Gettleman retiring, that opens the door for a new GM to give Judge the boot and also Daniel Jones. He has shown he is not a franchise QB but they seemed committed to giving him one more season. Maybe that changes. Should be interesting. They have 2 picks in the top 8 if I remember correctly. So they will have the resources to get what they want. 

I’ve also heard they could be promoting from within.  Which means they already know what they want to do.

[goskins10]

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve also heard they could be promoting from within.  Which means they already know what they want to do.

 

 

And maybe they knew Gettleman was moving on when they announced Judge and Daniels are staying. I hope so, Giants are a non-issue while those two are there. 

 

[Zim489]

35 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

It's interesting, because Mara said earlier that Judge and Daniel Jones would be back. But you are right with Gettleman retiring, that opens the door for a new GM to give Judge the boot and also Daniel Jones. He has shown he is not a franchise QB but they seemed committed to giving him one more season. Maybe that changes. Should be interesting. They have 2 picks in the top 8 if I remember correctly. So they will have the resources to get what they want. 

If I am the new GM I want JJ and DJ back for another year. They can be your tank commanders. With 2023 being a better QB draft for elite talent and them looking absolutely abysmal he can spend 2022 doing as much tear down as he can. Trade off Barkley and Bradberry. Cut Solder Blake Martinez Shepard. Get your Cap in a better space. Land in the top 3 of the draft next year to replace both JJ and DJ.

[method man]

30 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

If I am the new GM I want JJ and DJ back for another year. They can be your tank commanders. With 2023 being a better QB draft for elite talent and them looking absolutely abysmal he can spend 2022 doing as much tear down as he can. Trade off Barkley and Bradberry. Cut Solder Blake Martinez Shepard. Get your Cap in a better space. Land in the top 3 of the draft next year to replace both JJ and DJ.

Great point but I’m not sure Mara would go for that

[88Comrade2000]

If Giants stay the course; I think will want to try to win with Judge and Jones. So, they will be trying to get players to win now.

 

If they bite the bullet; then they will fire Judge. Tear down the team and start over.

 

 

If they want no change; then the only Gm they can hire is from within. I can’t see an outside hire taking the job without being able to hire his own coach now.

[Zim489]

 

Sigh... Why does every franchise do this? Except you know, ours...

I dont think this franchise ever wins anything until we do the traditional route of strong GM hire and have the GM hire the HC. Im still flabbergasted at the terrible FO ron assembled. The valuing of relationships over talent will always be dumb to me

Edited January 11, 2022 by Zim489
Added more

[drowland]

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

Sigh... Why does every franchise do this? Except you know, ours...

I dont think this franchise ever wins anything until we do the traditional route of strong GM hire and have the GM hire the HC. Im still flabbergasted at the terrible FO ron assembled. The valuing of relationships over talent will always be dumb to me

 

The trend now is hire the HC first and then include the HC in the GM search.  Or go for a package deal like the Bears look like they may be doing.  Ed Dobbs has turned down a lot of interview requests over the years though.

[goskins10]

30 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

Sigh... Why does every franchise do this? Except you know, ours...

I dont think this franchise ever wins anything until we do the traditional route of strong GM hire and have the GM hire the HC. Im still flabbergasted at the terrible FO ron assembled. The valuing of relationships over talent will always be dumb to me

 

 

I agree with the need for a traditional structure of GM who then finds a coach who then together they build a roster. I completely disagree with the narrative of Ron valuing relationship over talent. All HCs and GM bring in people they are familiar with. It's not nepotism it's good sense. When I change jobs I typically bring a few people with me that I know have made us successful. Then we do it again. Its how it works. 

 

I know people will disagree - what's new 🙂  - but the coaching team did a pretty damn good job just fielding a mostly competitive team. Injuries and Covid tore the team in half and worse. The 4th C, not to mention all the other Oline injuries and games missed, at one point using a rookie TE as the #1, your top two RBs down at some points with the #1B (Mc) down much of the last half of the season). The Oline coach did a help of a job - ranked top half most of the season. And Scott Turner did a much better job than people give him credit for. He took a back-up QB, developed a offense he could run and smoke and mirrored the way to PO contention with 4 weeks left. STs was the best until we had even with going to the 4th kicker at one point. P/K returner Carter was a nice development. That does not happen by accident.

 

JDR is an enigma. He is a very good D coach. But he screwed the pooch the first half of the season. I was actually calling for his head. But consider this - both Raheem Morris and Joe Barry - yes that ****ing Joe Barry are in the POs and Joe Barry, yes that Joe Barry has a very good chance of going to the SB and it's not jsut because of Aaron Rogers. So is it the coordinator or the players. Which this year were heavily impacted by Covid and injuries. Back the enigma part, why did it take to midseason to move Collins to LB (you don't ask, jsut tell him) and to get Curl on the field for the majority of snaps? I have no answer for that. Full disclosure I wanted JDR fired after game 6. But I changed my mind. I believe our issues are more personnel related than coaching related. 

 

But this brings us back to the first part that I agree with 100% - we need a traditional GM. If he cleans out Ron and company I would be OK with that. I want a GM who has thier own coach in place. But right now I believe Ron's problem is not being good at building a roster. I have no problem with his coaching or how he built his staff. 

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

12 hours ago, Zim489 said:

This is why I wasnt high on Ron being hired. I thought he would at least stabilize the franchise and put a good FO in place. Hasnt been close to the case.

The problem is why the hell is the Head Coach putting the FO in place? Snyder has literally never hired a real organizational structure.  You hire the GM to make these decisions for you.  You don’t hire a HC and then say OK now go build a FO & hire a GM if you want SMH

[Zim489]

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I agree with the need for a traditional structure of GM who then finds a coach who then together they build a roster. I completely disagree with the narrative of Ron valuing relationship over talent. All HCs and GM bring in people they are familiar with. It's not nepotism it's good sense. When I change jobs I typically bring a few people with me that I know have made us successful. Then we do it again. Its how it works. 

 

I know people will disagree - what's new 🙂  - but the coaching team did a pretty damn good job just fielding a mostly competitive team. Injuries and Covid tore the team in half and worse. The 4th C, not to mention all the other Oline injuries and games missed, at one point using a rookie TE as the #1, your top two RBs down at some points with the #1B (Mc) down much of the last half of the season). The Oline coach did a help of a job - ranked top half most of the season. And Scott Turner did a much better job than people give him credit for. He took a back-up QB, developed a offense he could run and smoke and mirrored the way to PO contention with 4 weeks left. STs was the best until we had even with going to the 4th kicker at one point. P/K returner Carter was a nice development. That does not happen by accident.

 

JDR is an enigma. He is a very good D coach. But he screwed the pooch the first half of the season. I was actually calling for his head. But consider this - both Raheem Morris and Joe Barry - yes that ****ing Joe Barry are in the POs and Joe Barry, yes that Joe Barry has a very good chance of going to the SB and it's not jsut because of Aaron Rogers. So is it the coordinator or the players. Which this year were heavily impacted by Covid and injuries. Back the enigma part, why did it take to midseason to move Collins to LB (you don't ask, jsut tell him) and to get Curl on the field for the majority of snaps? I have no answer for that. Full disclosure I wanted JDR fired after game 6. But I changed my mind. I believe our issues are more personnel related than coaching related. 

 

But this brings us back to the first part that I agree with 100% - we need a traditional GM. If he cleans out Ron and company I would be OK with that. I want a GM who has thier own coach in place. But right now I believe Ron's problem is not being good at building a roster. I have no problem with his coaching or how he built his staff. 

 

 

The relationships in coaching I get and I really dont have a problem with the staff. I would have liked 1-2 more non Carolina coaches because theres no way a good staff is all fired in carolina. Replicating a failed scheme is just asking to fail again. The FO on the other hand I completely hate. Hurney has a long history of failure and so does Mayhew. Polian was also fired for not being good. 3 hires from 3 average at best scenarios. All culminating with the head of the organization being an older defensive HC with zero experience with leading whos previous fan base thought he was often way too stuck in old ways and loyalty to a fault with obliviously non talented people in place in key positions. Along with a mediocre at best record with more losing seasons than winning ones 

 

I have zero faith in Ron and Co building anything of note here.

[profusion]

Historically, I don't think GMs got fired as quickly as they do now. They had longer to implement their plans and hire coaches etc. Now, they're just like coaches where they get three years or less to show progress or they're out. Thus, it's hard to make it all line up in a single offseason. Tough to rebuild an entire football organization from scratch in a couple months.

 

There's no possibility of success in Washington unless and until Snyder hires an actual football organization manager to run the team completely without Dan's interference or involvement. He's never done that, and I think at this point it's unlikely he ever will. It'll either be lackeys like Vinny/Bruce or "savior coaches" like Gibbs, Shanahan and Rivera. The pattern is well-established.