Summer of 2020---The Civil Unrest Thread--Read OP Before Posting (in memory of George Floyd)

[skinsmarydu]

6 minutes ago, Larry said:

 Not someone who went out of his way

Like, waaayyy out of his way.  Thanks for reiterating my point, this could've all been avoided. 

 

And his mom is an idiot, too.  One could link this into a parenting thread, but the dots can be easily connected here...in either direction.  They were both stupid at the same time, no matter who started it. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

I don't entirely disagree with this, but it does make me question the series of events. If I see a person with a gun and I am unarmed (Hell, even if I'm armed) it's really likely I'm not going to charge them unless I'm protecting someone or feel really threatened and think it's my only chance to survive. I mean one of the oldest cliches is "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" What state of mind must you be in to bring a skateboard to a gun fight?

 

In other words, unless everyone who went after Rittenhouse was insane it makes no sense for them to randomly and without provocation take him on. Now, I don't know what Rittenhouse did before the video started shooting. I don't know what the protestors did before the video, but I know something happened if for no other reason than this incident seems to be singular. There weren't dozens or hundreds of instances of the "mob" going after White people and brutalizing, murdering, and being wantonly attacking them. There weren't dozens of instances in openly armed individuals being attacked and overwhelmed by rioters.

 

Something happened here to escalate this. Something happened that was bad enough or scary enough to make these people think they had to go after someone with a gun. Something desperate enough had to happen for people armed with a skateboard to take on a guy with a military grade weapon.

 

I mean, seriously, would you charge after a guy with an AR-15 armed with only your fists or a skateboard? What would it take for you to do so?

I think this is how I feel about the whole thing, really, besides some dumb ass thought about how everyone came there looking for trouble. 

[Larry]

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I think this is how I feel about the whole thing, really, besides some dumb ass thought about how everyone came there looking for trouble. 

But only one of them brought a gun. 
 

The one who's claiming to be the victim. And is claiming to be exempt from legal punishment for his part in the fight. 

[Simmsy]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I'll go there. 
 

Yes. 
 

No, you do not get to spend (I assume) more than an hour intentionally seeking out what you hope is going to be a lethal confrontation with thousands of other people, because you disagree with their political views, and then yell "Hey, one of them moved in my direction, so I opened fire and defended myself."

 

The principal of self defense assumes a person who was attacked while minding his own business. Not someone who went out of his way to seek out trouble, and escalate it. 

 

Funny, isn't it? When the cops kill a black man, these white people will find any excuse for him to have died. He sold weed in the past, he had a warrant, he didn't do what the cop did fast enough, but they love making excuses for people like rittenhouse and zimmerman.

 

Here is what happened, same with rittenhouse, zimmerman and those three, inbred idiots in Georgia. They wanted to be a "hero" while killing someone, so they carried a gun and went looking for trouble, got in over their heads, pissed their pants and started shooting. They're ****ing cowards, these people that love them revere cowardice. If rittenhouse gets off (which he probably will), we don't need anymore protests. The people need to find out where he is, drag him out of his house and have a public execution. Just like they would do back in the "good old days".

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

But only one of them brought a gun. 
 

The one who's claiming to be the victim. And is claiming to be exempt from legal punishment for his part in the fight. 

Yea, which is why it is a dumb thought.

[PokerPacker]

Isn't Felony Murder a thing wherein if somebody dies as the result of a felony being committed, it can fall under murder even if the death itself was accidental?  Like if somebody has a heart attack due to a bank robbery, the robbers are guilty of Felony Murder?  Would that not apply to this case where people died as a result of this kid illegally trafficking a gun across state lines to brandish at protestors?

[China]

So what are the odds that we have rioting if Rittenhouse doesn't get convicted (which seems increasingly likely)?

 

The only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse takes the stand

 

Gaige Grosskreutz, the only person who survived being shot by Kyle Rittenhouse last year at a chaotic demonstration in Kenosha, Wis., took the stand in a pivotal moment in Rittenhouse's homicide trial.

 

In three hours of dramatic testimony Monday, Grosskreutz, 27, acknowledged that he was armed with a pistol on the evening of Aug. 25, 2020, but said that his hands were raised when Rittenhouse raised his rifle at him and that he feared for his life.

 

"I was never trying to kill the defendant," he testified. "In that moment, I was trying to preserve my own life. But doing so while also taking the life of another is not something that I'm capable of or comfortable doing."

 

Rittenhouse's defense lawyers have said Rittenhouse was acting in self-defense when he fired his AR-15-style rifle that night.

 

In cross-examination, they emphasized Grosskreutz's Glock pistol — which was in his hand at the moment Rittenhouse shot him — and proximity to Rittenhouse, just about 3 feet, at the time of the shooting. Grosskreutz said he was not intentionally pointing the weapon at Rittenhouse.

 

Grosskreutz, a paramedic from Milwaukee, had attended dozens of Black Lives Matter demonstrations that summer, acting as a medic and legal observer. He carried medical supplies, made livestreams of the events and wore a hat that read "paramedic."

 

Grosskreutz was also carrying his handgun holstered in the small of his back. His conceal-carry permit was expired at the time — which Grosskreutz said in testimony that he was unaware of that night.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[CjSuAvE22]

15 minutes ago, China said:

So what are the odds that we have rioting if Rittenhouse doesn't get convicted (which seems increasingly likely)?

 

 

Very Low imo, I think they will shut it down quickly if any rioting occurs.

[TradeTheBeal!]

What are the odds that we have gangs of armed to the teeth “Patriots” occupying state houses and court buildings if Rittenhouse gets convicted?

[skinsmarydu]

Scenario #2 seems more likely. 

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Very Low imo, I think they will shut it down quickly if any rioting occurs.

 

Agree. Generally people had moved on and accepted that he is going to get off as soon as the Judge said you cant call the dead people victims but you can call them looters or whatever else. Part of why this is happening is that people give up to fast and forget even faster. 

 

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

What are the odds that we have gangs of armed to the teeth “Patriots” occupying state houses and court buildings if Rittenhouse gets convicted?

 

I can see that being a thing honestly. And I can see them showing up in the streets even if he gets off to 'protect local businesses from looters and blacks'. Basically to intermediate early saying 'We know how to kill you and get away with it now'. 

[skinsmarydu]

Just being able to label people as "looters & rioters" (when their true objective was unknown) but not being able to label people as "victims" (evidence established & stipulated to, your Honor) has already ****ed it all up. 

[CjSuAvE22]

18 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Agree. Generally people had moved on and accepted that he is going to get off as soon as the Judge said you cant call the dead people victims but you can call them looters or whatever else. Part of why this is happening is that people give up to fast and forget even faster. 

 

 

 

Theres nothing to give up imo, Yes he brought a gun illegally being a minor to a protest, Rioting ensued the kid was chased down and after people getting within 4 feet of him he used his gun in self defense, the argument that he shouldn't have been there in first place doesn't mean you cannot use the gun you are carrying to protect yourself when losers begin to chase you and I say losers because if you are a individual with even below average intelligence why would you chase someone with a gun, let alone slap him with a skateboard or point a gun at him. He should go to jail in my opinion for carrying around an AR15 but it shouldn't be more than a year (which I believe is the maximum amount of time he can be jailed for it may be 9 months)  and because hes probably going to get off on all counts at this point because this was a situation where prosecutors were over zealous. Had Rittenhouse after trying to run away turned around and shot at Rosenbaum while he was greater than 15 feet away or 10 feet I could say this is reckless homicide but all three individuals were in his personal space at the time they were shot and nobody can argue that in my opinion regardless of he shouldn't have been there with a gun, because like I said just because he was there illegally carrying a gun doesn't mean he can't use it to defend himself. 

[Yohan]

58 minutes ago, China said:

So what are the odds that we have rioting if Rittenhouse doesn't get convicted (which seems increasingly likely)?

 

 

I hope I am wrong, but I think there is a strong chance there will be. There has been a lot of talk around here as well, that many are unhappy with the prosecutor, as many of the witnesses presented appear to make the self defense case for Rittenhouse.

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Theres nothing to give up imo

 

I don't think I was clear enough. I wasn't talking about any of that. When I say people give up *too fast I simply meant that back when this happened, equal justice under the law was a thing people cared about enough that they rioted. I don't get the sense that passion is going to be as great when he does get off as it was then. That's all I mean by that. 

 

I actually do think he was defending himself, to be honest. The only living witness even said himself that Rittenhouse only fired after he pulled a gun on him. So that's that as far as I know. You and I differ on how he should be punished and a lot of the other stuff obviously. That doesn't matter at all though. I do worry that we will see much more of this when he gets off. People showing up where they don't belong with weapons they shouldn't have threatening people they shouldn't.....just to spark an altercation where they can legally kill someone. Just because this is so public and he is basically going to get away with murder. There are A LOT of people out there like him and Fox news will be telling them he was right for months. He wont be the last.  

[CjSuAvE22]

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

There are A LOT of people out there like him and Fox news will be telling them he was right for months. He wont be the last.  

I agree there will be a lot of morons that wont let this down if he gets off by implying look we were right he was using self defense and I do agree that more morons will show up to protests with guns because of this, which is why I think law enforcement and city leaderships need to use every ounce available to them to prevent from this happening the amount of burning looting etc that went on should have been shut down. But then it makes it look like the protesting was at fault so I don't know how to fix it but they need to figure it out because this is a civilized country there should never be protesting that turns into rioting and looting. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

If this is a civilized country, Mr Rittenhouse will pay for his crimes.

 

I have my doubts…

[Llevron]

I'm not sure how civilized it is honestly. 

 

And there is an argument to be had about rioting and looting. I don't feel like having it. But if you are curious what I mean I would look it up and use sources you know you probably don't agree with just to see what the other opinion is on it. Cant hurt you. 

[tshile]

I’m expecting him to get off now that I know the survivor was holding a pistol when he was shot. 
 

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

I’m expecting him to get off now that I know the survivor was holding a pistol when he was shot. 
 

 

Right. That's not going to matter to most though. Most have been in their corners since he pulled the trigger and no amount of sense is going to change that. There are many things that don't help that situation that we would try and avoid the next time. We wont. But its a nice idea. 

[tshile]

I think, in any gun friendly state, if you have a defendant claiming self defense and what you’ve got is one directly involved witness, that has that story, and gives that testimony, and there’s a picture of the witness hovering over the defendant pointing a gun at him… your case is done. Hell, you’re gonna have a difficult time getting him on the felony firearms charges he clearly is guilty of. 
 

it’s not what I think should happen. But it’s what I think will happen. if I were to bet money. Off on everything. 

add prop bet: witness gets charged for carrying when his permit was expired. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

I honestly thought he had a decent defense claiming self defense at the time.  My bigger issue was that I knew if it were a black person that approached the cops with a rifle, it would have gone down differently.  And I have a big issue with that.  Now knowing that someone else was pointing a gun at him seals the deal for self defense in my opinion.  I would still like to see him hammered for illegally transporting and carrying the gun though.  And his mom for aiding those crimes.

[The Evil Genius]

Maybe I missed something, but after murdering 2 people he likely gets off because the 3rd person he shot was armed?

 

 

[Yohan]

11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I I would still like to see him hammered for illegally transporting and carrying the gun though.  And his mom for aiding those crimes.

Just want to point out that in the Prosecutors opening statement and the testimony of the first witness Dominick Black, the gun was purchased by Black and stored in Black's home, which is in Kenosha.

[Llevron]

15 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Maybe I missed something, but after murdering 2 people he likely gets off because the 3rd person he shot was armed?

 

 

 

Per the testimony that was the first person he shot (I think). He literally said Rittenhouse didn't fire a shot until I pointed my gun at him. No matter where you are I think that narrow view qualifies and self defense. 

 

As much as I dont like it, I dont see how thats not how the court will rule.