2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[mhd24]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, you can tell he's more much naturally talented than Trask in that clip.

[Riggo#44]

That was a throw. He looked a bit like a full-effort thrower when I watched him a couple weeks ago, but he just flung that almost 60 yards on the run. 

[Berggy9598]

26 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

Yeah, you can tell he's more much naturally talented than Trask in that clip.

Better athlete for sure but not sure he has better arm talent than Trask. 

[Berggy9598]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

I like Toney. He’s solid. Trask just doesn’t do it for me. Maybe when I watch him more closely I’ll like him more, but for birds eye... meh.

He’s behind his time as a prospect. The things he does well aren’t as relevant as they used to be and his lack of movement will be a big problem in the NFL, but fundamentally he’s pretty polished in a couple of areas, especially his footwork and how efficiently he resets. 

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

He’s behind his time as a prospect. The things he does well aren’t as relevant as they used to be and his lack of movement will be a big problem in the NFL, but fundamentally he’s pretty polished in a couple of areas, especially his footwork and how efficiently he resets. 

Agree there. I mostly see a pocket passer with limited mobility and a decent arm. He seems pretty smart with targets and relatively accurate. But his arm and movement dont make him jump out.

 

Hes a flyer guy. Draft him and see if he ca. Be developed.

 

Small tangent:

 

I don’t like the way practice squads are set up in the NFL. Especially for QBs. 
 

The way the way the NFL cycles talent, these young QBs have a couple of year window, if that, to develop. Otherwise it’s out with the 1 year vet and in with the fresh rookie. I think for a league that depends on quarterback play this is a big mistake. 
 

Each team should be allowed 2 active roster spots, an emergency spot that dresses and 2 practice squad spots for quarterbacks. 
 

Reps may be hard to come by for the lower guys, but you don’t have to bail on a guy right away and get a new toy in. 
 

Guys like Trask would likely thrive, especially with the emergency third QB that dresses for game day. 
 

It also allows guys to learn a system and gives the team a chance if they have to come in for relief duty. 
 

I wish one of these “minor” leagues would work. It would be pivotal in player development.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Knowing Dallas' history, Joey Bonaduce is gonna light it on fire tonight at QB, and we're gonna WISH we drafted him.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Knowing Dallas' history, Joey Bonaduce is gonna light it on fire tonight at QB, and we're gonna WISH we drafted him.

We should be rooting for Dallas tonight (if you want to win the division)

[Riggo#44]

25 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

if you want to win the division

 

Translation: If you want meaningless, trite participation trophies that actually get you further from your stated goal of consistent competition.

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Translation: If you want meaningless, trite participation trophies that actually get you further from your stated goal of consistent competition.

I totally agree. People are acting like winning this division actually means something.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

I totally agree. People are acting like winning this division actually means something.

 

Winning the division usually means something. Winning THIS division, does not.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Winning the division usually means something. Winning THIS division, does not.

It does when we win 9 in a row!

 

Dont tell me im wrong. I’m in my dream and I don’t want to wake up yet.

[OVCChairman]

46 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I totally agree. People are acting like winning this division actually means something.

 

 

the argument can be made that giving Gibson, McLaurin, and this defensive unit the experience of a season where playoffs are on the line, plus playing a playoff game is valuable to their long term development.  It also has an intrinsic value of always having a win mentality.  

 

I understand, and to a degree believe that a better draft pick ultimately has a better long term effect on the franchise, but that's where Kyle Smith and co. need to do their jobs.  If we pick 5th or 20th, it's still a first round pick and we will have access to first round talent.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

Winning should always be the only option, with no exceptions.

I am a firm believer that players/teams need to "learn how to win"

 

Being successful, isn't merely about gathering "perceived talent" from draft picks (we've tried and learned from that)

It's more importantly about, execution ; even from "average" players.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Malapropismic Depository

[Warhead36]

I have no issue winning games if its because of young guys stepping up, showing development, and making plays. That's why the Dallas game was a good experience. Yeah "tank" wise it sucked, but when its young guys like McLaurin, Gibson, Sweat, Young etc. leading the way, I mean ultimately that's what you want as a rebuilding team.

 

You can get good players at every pick in every round, so I won't worry about that just yet.

[Thinking Skins]

So, just about every year some guy emerges as a lower round pick or UDFA who comes in because all the guys ahead of him got hurt or looked horrible and he comes in and at least looks respectable. This year we've seen emergences of 

 - Brett Rypien: (UDFA 2019) 27/40, 295, 2TD 4 INT

 - Ben Dinucci: (7th round, 2020) 23/43, 219, 0TD, 0INT

 - Jarrett Stidham (4th round, 2020) 11/23, 124, 1TD 3 INT

 

 

These two guys don't look like they're going to emerge into guys that challenge for a starting spot although Rypien could improve on those 4 INTS but his arm strength and decision making looked questionable. So the question becomes will any of these other young QBs emerge? 

 

Last year's low round QBs to emerge: 

 - Delvin Hodges (UDFA) 100/160, 1063, 5TD, 8INT

 - Garner Minshew (6th Round) 285/470, 21TD, 6 INT

 - Kyle Allen (UDFA 2018, played one game in 2018) 303/489, 17TD, 16 INT

 - Will Grier (3rd round), 28/52 228, 0TD, 4Int

 - David Blough (UDFA), 94/174, 984, 4TD, 6 INT

 - Mason Rudolph (3rd Round) 176/283, 1765, 13TD, 9INT

 - Luke Falk (6th Round) 47/73 416 0TD 3INT

 - Ryan Finley (4th Round 41/87, 474, 2TD 2INT

 

So based on last year (and some previous years) I'd expect a few more young low round picks and UDFAs to get a shot and somebody to come out looking respectable with a chance to start next year. I am really instersted in seeing what Dallas does with Dinucci. Do they bring in another young QB. Will they want Montez from us? Or will they go the vet route? I'm also curious about who the most likely guys to get a shot are. 

 - Jake Fromm (third string in Buffalo?)

 - James Morgan (third string in NYJ)

 - Trace McSorley (thirs string in Baltimore)

 

 

[CurseReversed]

I get the argument that winning the division means nothing and it will most likely do more harm then good...Chase young has shown us how much better it is to suck big time if your going to suck,  but I also can see it from the players and coaches point of view.  There is a potentially elite defensive line group forming on this team and teams like the giants have got hot late in the season with just such a group and knocked off one of the best teams in history.  They had an avg QB and a bunch of avg at  best wideouts, who were all out of the league in a few years.  So it can be done. 

 

The one thing more then any other that has changed my perspective on this teams potential this year, is the emergence of Sweat.   He looks like he could be just as good or better then young right now. His tools and ceiling are off the charts.  This group of guys, if they get hot at the right moment, could be dominant enough to beat anybody. 

 

Not saying its going to happen but its definitely possible.  

 

 

[KDawg]

I think the key distinction is:

 

If we’re going to be bad, hanging in there just to look horrendous and not get a better draft pick is nightmare fuel.

 

I don’t think anyone would be against this team all of a sudden clicking and going on a real run and being a competitive playoff team. That’s obviously more valuable than losing for the sake of it.

 

Theres levels of gray to this whole thing.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

So, just about every year some guy emerges as a lower round pick or UDFA who comes in because all the guys ahead of him got hurt or looked horrible and he comes in and at least looks respectable. This year we've seen emergences of 

 - Brett Rypien: (UDFA 2019) 27/40, 295, 2TD 4 INT

 - Ben Dinucci: (7th round, 2020) 23/43, 219, 0TD, 0INT

 - Jarrett Stidham (4th round, 2020) 11/23, 124, 1TD 3 INT

 

 

These two guys don't look like they're going to emerge into guys that challenge for a starting spot although Rypien could improve on those 4 INTS but his arm strength and decision making looked questionable. So the question becomes will any of these other young QBs emerge? 

 

Last year's low round QBs to emerge: 

 - Delvin Hodges (UDFA) 100/160, 1063, 5TD, 8INT

 - Garner Minshew (6th Round) 285/470, 21TD, 6 INT

 - Kyle Allen (UDFA 2018, played one game in 2018) 303/489, 17TD, 16 INT

 - Will Grier (3rd round), 28/52 228, 0TD, 4Int

 - David Blough (UDFA), 94/174, 984, 4TD, 6 INT

 - Mason Rudolph (3rd Round) 176/283, 1765, 13TD, 9INT

 - Luke Falk (6th Round) 47/73 416 0TD 3INT

 - Ryan Finley (4th Round 41/87, 474, 2TD 2INT

 

So based on last year (and some previous years) I'd expect a few more young low round picks and UDFAs to get a shot and somebody to come out looking respectable with a chance to start next year. I am really instersted in seeing what Dallas does with Dinucci. Do they bring in another young QB. Will they want Montez from us? Or will they go the vet route? I'm also curious about who the most likely guys to get a shot are. 

 - Jake Fromm (third string in Buffalo?)

 - James Morgan (third string in NYJ)

 - Trace McSorley (thirs string in Baltimore)

 

 

Cooley and others really love Finley. He is a very smart QB. I wouldn’t be surprised if that guy is starting somewhere at some point

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

We're at the point where it sounds like the players really want to buy in and follow the coach.  Winning and lucking into the playoffs (only to lose) is better for that goal than going 4-12 and picking 5th or whatever.

 

If we were picking 5th, I'd want to trade back anyways.

 

Check out last year, still early but so far...

Best OT's were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th selected.

Best LB was the 4th selected.

Best CB was the 7th selected.

Best DT was the 2nd selected.

Best WR's were the 5th and 7th selected.

 

Now we should all expect this to change a bit in their 2nd years, but so far draft position doesn't matter as much for the best among their position group.

[OVCChairman]

16 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I have no issue winning games if its because of young guys stepping up, showing development, and making plays. That's why the Dallas game was a good experience. Yeah "tank" wise it sucked, but when its young guys like McLaurin, Gibson, Sweat, Young etc. leading the way, I mean ultimately that's what you want as a rebuilding team.

 

You can get good players at every pick in every round, so I won't worry about that just yet.

 

 

This is it right here.  

 

If we find a way to win this division with THIS group, it should be applauded.  We're not winning the NFC East at 7-9 with Trent Williams, Adrian Peterson, and Josh Norman.  THAT would be a much more 'frustrating' (if you can really get frustrated with your team over-achieving) situation because it's happening on the backs of aging veterans who will likely not be here when this team ascends.  We're doing it with youth and it's developmental.  There is a very different dynamic to this than just effecting our draft status.  

 

Full disclosure, I would probably still be rooting for us to win the division if those 3 were still on the team, I want my team to win every week.  I understand the conversation about hollow wins changing draft status, resulting in a leaner pool of players to choose from, but winning is winning.  It should be the only thing that the team and coaching staff ever thrives for. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by OVCChairman

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Cooley and others really love Finley. He is a very smart QB. I wouldn’t be surprised if that guy is starting somewhere at some point

Finley is one of the guys I wanted last year (along with Rudolph and Grier and maybe Falk but that may have been a previous year). I will admit though that most of my scouting only reads a few reports to find late round steals and I don't know what the key differentiators are between these guys and the rest of the pack. 

 

I do think that most (if not all of these guys) need an opportunity. What if instead of signing Matt Flynn, Seattle had gone with a more capable starter. I'm sure Wilson would have still looked good in camp but would the starter have looked bad enough to give him a chance? Even the great Tom Brady was a nobody until Bledsoe went down and suddenly his hard work was rewarded with an opportunity and he never looked back. Would these be just guys / career backups had the starting QBs not gone down early in their careers? 

[GOATFrerotte]

19 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Winning should always be the only option, with no exceptions.

I am a firm believer that players/teams need to "learn how to win"

 

Being successful, isn't merely about gathering "perceived talent" from draft picks (we've tried and learned from that)

It's more importantly about, execution ; even from "average" players.

 

Agree completely. If you want to develop a winning culture you do everything you can to win and winning this division, no matter how bad it is, would be a huge success for this team that was predicted to be one of the worst. Wanting to lose for draft picks is as loser mentality as it gets.

[Fresh8686]

A good primer on Zach Wilson

 

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

6 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

This is it right here.  

 

If we find a way to win this division with THIS group, it should be applauded.  We're not winning the NFC East at 7-9 with Trent Williams, Adrian Peterson, and Josh Norman.  THAT would be a much more 'frustrating' (if you can really get frustrated with your team over-achieving) situation because it's happening on the backs of aging veterans who will likely not be here when this team ascends.  We're doing it with youth and it's developmental.  There is a very different dynamic to this than just effecting our draft status.  

 

Full disclosure, I would probably still be rooting for us to win the division if those 3 were still on the team, I want my team to win every week.  I understand the conversation about hollow wins changing draft status, resulting in a leaner pool of players to choose from, but winning is winning.  It should be the only thing that the team and coaching staff ever thrives for. 

 

To add onto that, when people say they don't care about winning the division due to it not being much of an accomplishment, I look at it from the other angle : how embarrassing would it be, to not win the division, when the other teams are this bad ?

And what would that do to the confidence of players, both current ones, and potential free agents in the offseason ? Which brings up yet another good point ; while you may get a higher draft pick with a worse record, you're also less attractive of a destination for other free agents. And FA is huge, because that's where you try to get immediate starters and immediate impact players

Edited November 2, 2020 by Malapropismic Depository