2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[The Consigliere]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:34 AM, KDawg said:

If the Jets don’t fire Gase and they pick 1st overall and take a QB they are going to regret it.

Gase is a real tried and true reminder of how much of a dinosaur league this is. Didn't we all realize that Gase had no talent years ago? How on earth did he pull another job after his abject failure of a performance in Miami? he only got that job by riding Manning's coat tails, it's amazing how some coaches just to get fail over and over again, same with GM's, while innovators take forever to get a job. 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:58 PM, mhd24 said:

If we have a top 5 pick, its got to be QB.  If somehow, the top 3 guys are gone, then take Sewell or Chase.

Pretty much, or trade down for a future 1st, and just take the best OT or WR on the board. 

 

But yeah, drafting a QB period, or trading up for one should be the move, full stop. 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:10 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Right now i am assuming the top 5 will be some order of:

 

Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Sewell, Chase.

Me too. I think Chase is a bit of a toss up just because of how deep the draft is in elite WR's (there are 4 or 5 guys that would have been the #1 or #2 ranked WR in any class since the vaunted '14 class period, and it's crazy to think that only a nightmarish injury kept it from being six guys. Before Ross got hurt, Chase, Bateman, Waddle, Smith, Moore, and Ross would've all been top 15-30 picks this year, and top 5-15ish picks in almost any other year.  It's kind of crazy, but '20 and '21 as WR classes are up there with any WR class since '96 (the other famed class) other than '14. '01 was the might've been class, chock full of ridiculous college talent, but a lot of those guys just ended up being busts, and WTF? picks in retrospect w/guys like Chad Johnson and Steve Smith being 2nd and 3rd round steals. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I couldn't make out out which draft geek was talking but heard the tail end of a segment on 106.7, with one dude saying Fields isn't much behind Lawrence and is a distinctly better prospect than Haskins. 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:51 PM, Riggo#44 said:

 

It might be the most overused word by draft analysts. Every year there's a "generational" talent--which kind of contradicts the whole "generational" thing.

 

It might seem like it, but it's not really.

2011 had a lot of QB's but most people rightly thought the bulk of them were major reaches, 2013 and 2014 were horrific QB classes, 2016 was sub par (Goff/Wentz were elevated), and 2019 was outright awful beyond Kyler who many thought wasn't going to play football at all until very late in the year (people were still arguing he'd play baseball w/the A's as deep into that final season as late October/early November). .

 

The only legit and beloved QB classes this past decade were:

2012: Luck, RGIII, Russell Wilson, Tannehill, Weeden etc

2015: Winston/Mariota and that only

2017:  Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson

2018: Baker, Darnold, Allen

2020: Burrow, Tua, Herbert

 

It just feels like they keep saying generational because for the first time in forever, we've had a cluster of reasonably deep QB drafts ('17, '18 and '20). What matters is that the big 3 in '18 were viewed as as good or better than anyone since Luck, and in Burrow and Tua this year, kind of the same thing (w/the injury harming Tua's stock significantly). '17 was more of a grab bag, people weren't sure if Watson had an NFL arm, many weren't sure what to make of Mahomes, and trubisky was a 1 year guy. I'm not sure how people would rank the '17 big 3 compared to Goff/Wentz, but I always had the sense that Goff and Wentz were viewed as good enough to go that high, but not no doubt options, there were doubts, more than with Winston or Mariota. 

 

I think Lawrence ranked along side these guys would be ranked higher than anyone other than Luck, and Burrow's '19 only eval maybe. Fields probably the same, not sure about Lance, I imagine Lance has that same Wentz/Josh Allen, how do we evaluate this guy concern.  

 

[BleedBNG]

2 hours ago, Ashburn Dave said:

We're number 2 again!

 

Somethings never change, lol.

 

Probably end up at 3

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/2021-nfl-mock-draft-roundup-ohio-state-qb-justin-fields-washington

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I don't think he's in Etienne's class, but time will tell. I definitely don't think he's Lev Bell, and in fairness, neither was Bell in college. He simply radically improved as a runner and athlete between his time at Michigan State, and by year 2 w/Pittsburgh, he's one of the most unusual RB talents I've seen in decades, and we won't see another like him in terms of style. I'm not saying best, just unusual. I've never seen someone run w/patience and the ability to read and react and process information as quickly and not get constantly stuffed because of such thinking before in the modern era. Then you add the hands/receiving game prowess, and the athleticism which wasn't really there (must have got a nutritionist and a team) and it's just incredible. 

 

We'll see how Harris turns out. Definitely an interesting prospect, I just like Etienne better as a more explosive weapon. his #'s are flat out insane on a per touch basis. 

 

Usually everyone gets better in the span between college and NFL veterancy.  But LeVeon was a stud at Michigan St.  I was a big fan of him his in that 2012 season and he was one of my hits.  He was definitely a patient and pacey runner back in college, and a freakishly good athlete for his size.  Style built on the foundation of that devastating fullspeed inside cut that completely pantsed defenders flowing into outside gaps naturally thinking that was his trajectory.  But he had a lot of spins and hurdles in his game at Michigan St and I think the hurdle was kind of what he was known for coming out of college thanks to Sports Center.

 

Watch this highlight reel from Bell:

 

 

Now watch this highlight reel of Najee Harris right after:

 

 

 

Same size and build.  Same explosive power.  Same upright, pacey running style.  Same patience and ability to wait on a single block to form up at various levels of the defense and explode out of that inside cut on the outside block, but also the same ability to decide "I'm taking it to the edge one hat on three and I'm going to win" when the moment calls for it.  Same subtle fullspeed jump cuts.  Same balance and acceleration.  Same WR-esque body control on down-field catches.  Even hurdles like Le'Veon.  It is eerie how much he resembles Le'Veon to me.  I think he's going to be a superstar if he goes to a team that figures out they should run the ball when they have him.

 

I love Etienne too though.  To me, Etienne is a Dalvin Cook/Melvin Gordon type of runner.  A fabulous mix of speed and power with that elite ability to gear up into the hole and really stress that second level to immediately reach their fits and be ready for a very hard blow.  He's probably got more top end speed than them too, I'd guess he runs low 4.4s instead of upper 4.4s/low 4.5.  I think he's got that rare instinct to house runs/catches with all kinds of creativity like Gordon and Cook did, and could end up being a big time touchdown machine like them.  I think he's going to be a superstar too.

 

Etienne and Harris are probably two of the five best offensive players in CFB this year, especially with Chase and Sewell opting out.  Any team would be happy to get either one.  I like Chuba Hubbard almost as much as them too, but I think he's maybe a hair lower in ability than them.  And my initial take was that I really like Journey Brown but I need to see more from him this season before I confidently put him in the same class as Etienne, Harris, and Hubbard.  Same for the big runner from Ohio State.

 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I couldn't make out out which draft geek was talking but heard the tail end of a segment on 106.7, with one dude saying Fields isn't much behind Lawrence and is a distinctly better prospect than Haskins. 

 

 

 

 

Wait, where is this 4.3 number coming from? 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Wait, where is this 4.3 number coming from? 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I couldn't make out out which draft geek was talking but heard the tail end of a segment on 106.7, with one dude saying Fields isn't much behind Lawrence and is a distinctly better prospect than Haskins. 

 

 

 

While he is certainly mobile, he looks nothing like a 4.3 guy. I don’t think he’s faster than a 4.5 or 4.55. He doesn’t look that fast on tape 

[KDawg]

Let's slow the Fields hype down. I don't want people catching on to him and having him go ahead of Lawrence...

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Same size and build.  Same explosive power.  Same upright, pacey running style.  Same patience and ability to wait on a single block to form up at various levels of the defense and explode out of that inside cut on the outside block, but also the same ability to decide "I'm taking it to the edge one hat on three and I'm going to win" when the moment calls for it.  Same subtle fullspeed jump cuts.  Same balance and acceleration.  Same WR-esque body control on down-field catches.  Even hurdles like Le'Veon.  It is eerie how much he resembles Le'Veon to me.  I think he's going to be a superstar if he goes to a team that figures out they should run the ball when they have him.

 

I love Etienne too though.  To me, Etienne is a Dalvin Cook/Melvin Gordon type of runner.  A fabulous mix of speed and power with that elite ability to gear up into the hole and really stress that second level to immediately reach their fits and be ready for a very hard blow.  He's probably got more top end speed than them too, I'd guess he runs low 4.4s instead of upper 4.4s/low 4.5.  I think he's got that rare instinct to house runs/catches with all kinds of creativity like Gordon and Cook did, and could end up being a big time touchdown machine like them.  I think he's going to be a superstar too.

 

Etienne and Harris are probably two of the five best offensive players in CFB this year, especially with Chase and Sewell opting out.  Any team would be happy to get either one.  I like Chuba Hubbard almost as much as them too, but I think he's maybe a hair lower in ability than them.  And my initial take was that I really like Journey Brown but I need to see more from him this season before I confidently put him in the same class as Etienne, Harris, and Hubbard.  Same for the big runner from Ohio State.

 

 

Love both am guessing Etienne goes first.  Really early in the process to guess but I think there is a fighting chance Harris is there with our pick in the 2nd.  Etienne's cutting ability, contact balance, explosiveness is out of this world.  They both have great hands.  Love Harris tougheness, hard dude to bring down.  

 

If I can pick one I'd go Etienne both both I think will be superstars. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

While he is certainly mobile, he looks nothing like a 4.3 guy. I don’t think he’s faster than a 4.5 or 4.55. He doesn’t look that fast on tape 

 

His QB coach says he's 4.4 or faster.    Hard to tell by watching all of his runs because especially when he breaks loose and doesn't have to run his hardest to score, he doesn't.  He has long legs.  in one of the early runs here, he seems to motor pretty fast. 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Couldn't care less how fast he is. Can he run an offense? Can he make accurate throws into tight windows? Can he manuever within the pocket? Is he reliable, durable, and COACHABLE?

 

Arm strength and 40 times don't mean jack to me.

[Riggo#44]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Couldn't care less how fast he is. Can he run an offense? Can he make accurate throws into tight windows? Can he manuever within the pocket? Is he reliable, durable, and COACHABLE?

 

Arm strength and 40 times don't mean jack to me.

That's the report--but then again, thought the same of Haskins.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

That's the report--but then again, thought the same of Haskins.

Not.

 

The.

 

Same.

 

[Riggo#44]

Just now, KDawg said:

Not.

 

The.

 

Same.

 

 

Oh, I agree...but we just seem to end up with the ones that don't want to listen--or worse yet, tell the coaching staff what to do

[PartyPosse]

If Sewell and Lawrence are gone I’d rather trade down and get more picks. I’d also like to see is go CB early. What’s the goods on Surtain and Wade so far?

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If Sewell and Lawrence are gone I’d rather trade down and get more picks. I’d also like to see is go CB early. What’s the goods on Surtain and Wade so far?

 

We're going to need a QB at some point; better to do that if you have a top 3 pick than hope you can find one later down the road. I can't see Haskins having a future here and I don't think Allen is much more than a decent backup. 

[JoggingGod]

7 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

it's amazing how some coaches just to get fail over and over again, same with GM's, while innovators take forever to get a job. 

Hence why we should fire Ron Rivera after the season.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If Sewell and Lawrence are gone I’d rather trade down and get more picks. I’d also like to see is go CB early. What’s the goods on Surtain and Wade so far?

 

They're good.  I don't think Surtain is truly great but he's good.  A solid first rounder with few weaknesses, but perhaps not the playmaker gene that the great CBs have.  Wade's not a playmaker like Caleb Farley, but he's got rare dog in him.  He's a brute at the position who could be a special player if he showed more ability to play the ball.

 

The Ohio State guys are usually good and they are usually really physical.  But something about them--they don't playmake with the confidence of the Virginia Tech guys.  The VT guys let their dicks swing and just go after the ball when they sense a chance to go and get it.  You see it in the Fullers and Deangelo Hall and all of the successful NFL alums, and Caleb Farley absolutely has that mentality too.  Kyshoen Jarrett was like that when he was in school too.  But it seems like the Ohio State guys always default to playing the man first and they don't go after the ball the same way.  They never end up being quite as good in the NFL as they should be.  Same for the Alabama guys, for that matter.

 

I think the best corner in the class has yet to put together a stretch of great games and solidify himself.  I think it's Campbell from Georgia.  I like Kary Vincent a lot too, and I think the South Carolina kids are really interesting too but not as well rounded and safe as the other top guys in the SEC--they would be really high upside second day projects.  But Tyson Campbell is the super duper athlete.  He's got that special top gear and the size-speed combo lets him pretty much run with anyone in man coverage and make it look easy.  He needs play-finishing polish, but I think he could be a top ten pick.  He's almost as naturally gifted as Okudah was.  However, Stokes is the one whose likely draft value I really like.  Knuckles that graze the turf when he bends down in his press stance.  Easy transition game.  Twitchy, explosive, competitive.  Skinny, but physical all of the way down the pattern and particularly so in the contact window.  I think I was right about Jaylon Johnson last year, and I see similar value in Stokes.  I've been arguing in this thread that we need to be targeting zone playmakers like Caleb Farley specifically for this scheme, but a press man stud like Stokes would be nice too.  He'd slow things down for the DL and help them get home even if he's not turning the ball over a ton for you.  I think he might end up being a second round pick gem like Johnson.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

Hence why we should fire Ron Rivera after the season.

I’ve asked this question to many others but what did you expect the season to look like coming into it??

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Couldn't care less how fast he is. Can he run an offense? Can he make accurate throws into tight windows? Can he manuever within the pocket? Is he reliable, durable, and COACHABLE?

 

Arm strength and 40 times don't mean jack to me.

 

Arm strength alone doesn't mean much to me but IMO you also don't want a weak arm because otherwise you are limited see Colt McCoy.

 

40 time is a good attribute IMO.  Kyler Murray wouldn't be Kyler Murray if he wasn't fast.  Fields' Qb coach highlighted that Fields can potentialy run like L. Jackson but has a better arm but it was that combination is why he thinks he's special. 

[philibusters]

9 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

If Sewell and Lawrence are gone I’d rather trade down and get more picks. I’d also like to see is go CB early. What’s the goods on Surtain and Wade so far?

 

i want to use 3 of our first 4 picks on offense.  The way I look at is though the defense has had some struggles its probably right in the middle of the pack in terms of the 32 NFL defenses, whereas our offense is very much in the conversation for the worst offense in the NFL.  With the first pick I use on defense I am looking for the best non D-Lineman available with a tiebreaker to free safety or a linebacker who is natural in coverage. 

 

In terms of corner, I think a lot depends on if we bring back Darby and Moreau.  Bring back those two guys and the need at cb is not there.  We just invested heavily in that position giving Kendall Fuller at 4 year 40 million dollar deal.

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Vegan? Well, I'm in.