KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Some Fields stuff: I can see here and talk through everything that O'Sullivan said... but... You guys have ears. I think Fields is my guy in this draft class. I know that's scary given the Ohio State connection. But Fields is SO much different than the other OSU guys. Watch his footwork. He stays in his base, knows how to climb the ladder, has a good release time and drops dimes down the field on a regular basis. He has tremendous shoulder arc and lets his howitzer work. A video on his mechanics as a thrower. He is fast. He avoids contact for the most part. He gets his shoulders around on roll outs. A few negatives, because the positives described above show through in this film, too... But... He sometimes stays with the downfield stuff too long and is way too late to the check down. There are times he is TOO hesitant to go to the check down and he winds up throwing a pretty bad pass because of it. There are also times he tries to force things and makes real dangerous throws. But this guy is absolutely fearless. His deep ball accuracy is unreal. There were a few times in the games I've seen live that he stares down receivers a bit, and that also gets him into some trouble sometimes. Fields is right now my guy for this franchise. I think he has a similar floor to Lawrence and perhaps a higher ceiling. His mechanics are so good. I think he has an extremely high football IQ and he has a leadership ability that is evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: Despite the flaws, he is so enticing. He supposedly a fiery competitor too. We're more than 6 mos away, so lots can change. Yeah, though our film of Lance won't. He decided to play 1 game this season and then stop and declare for the draft. Personally I don't like it. And I think it could hurt his stock. With a small school guy you'd probably want as much film as you can get because you're really going to be judging him on his traits more than anything, to see if he can translate to the NFL. Small school + 1 year wonder + top 5 pick = iffy proposition to me. Most recent small school guy taken really high was Wentz, but he was a 4 year starter so he had plenty of film to go over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, mistertim said: Yeah, though our film of Lance won't. He decided to play 1 game this season and then stop and declare for the draft. Personally I don't like it. And I think it could hurt his stock. With a small school guy you'd probably want as much film as you can get because you're really going to be judging him on his traits more than anything, to see if he can translate to the NFL. Small school + 1 year wonder + top 5 pick = iffy proposition to me. Most recent small school guy taken really high was Wentz, but he was a 4 year starter so he had plenty of film to go over. He can't play more than one game. NDSt's season is paused until February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: He can't play more than one game. NDSt's season is paused until February. Right, but I think he's already said he's not going to play then. He's going to play the one game and then focus on the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, mistertim said: Right, but I think he's already said he's not going to play then. He's going to play the one game and then focus on the draft. He can’t play then if he is declaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: He can’t play then if he is declaring. Ok. I'm just saying that think his lack of film/experience is concerning when you're talking about taking a small school QB with a potential top 5 pick. And we won't get to see any more from him until he gets to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, mistertim said: Most recent small school guy taken really high was Wentz, but he was a 4 year starter so he had plenty of film to go over. Wentz was not a 4 year starter, he threw 46 passes his 1st two year, and 7 games his Sr. Yr. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/carson-wentz-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 The being from Ohio State thing doesn't really bother me. How many colleges consistently produce great NFL QBs? The only one that comes to mind right away is Cal which produced both Rodgers and Goff. But even then that was like almost 15 years apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 I saw this on Twitter: What about Sam Darnold if the Jets move on from him? Look at Tannehill after getting away Adam Gase. Would give us more options at the top of the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Riggo#44 said: I saw this on Twitter: What about Sam Darnold if the Jets move on from him? Look at Tannehill after getting away Adam Gase. Would give us more options at the top of the draft Eh. Him leaving the Jets to come play for Washington doesn’t seem like the organizational upgrade he needs to rebound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Eh. Him leaving the Jets to come play for Washington doesn’t seem like the organizational upgrade he needs to rebound. I mean we're not a paradigm organization, but Ron Rivera, and co HAVE to be better than Gase. I mean everyone HATES Gase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Riggo#44 said: I mean we're not a paradigm organization, but Ron Rivera, and co HAVE to be better than Gase. I mean everyone HATES Gase Give it time. Everyone hates everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: Give it time. Everyone hates everyone. If this staff isn't better than Gase...we're ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Riggo#44 said: If this staff isn't better than Gase...we're ****ed. Even if we are, this still isn’t the situation to take a guy rated worse than the current QB project on the roster. I think we have an okay set up... the OC is the question mark. But it’s still not ideal. Darnold should go to a place like Indy if the Jets move forward. I really think Fields is an excellent choice if we get the opportunity for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: Some Fields stuff: I can see here and talk through everything that O'Sullivan said... but... You guys have ears. I think Fields is my guy in this draft class. I know that's scary given the Ohio State connection. But Fields is SO much different than the other OSU guys. Watch his footwork. He stays in his base, knows how to climb the ladder, has a good release time and drops dimes down the field on a regular basis. He has tremendous shoulder arc and lets his howitzer work. A video on his mechanics as a thrower. He is fast. He avoids contact for the most part. He gets his shoulders around on roll outs. A few negatives, because the positives described above show through in this film, too... But... He sometimes stays with the downfield stuff too long and is way too late to the check down. There are times he is TOO hesitant to go to the check down and he winds up throwing a pretty bad pass because of it. There are also times he tries to force things and makes real dangerous throws. But this guy is absolutely fearless. His deep ball accuracy is unreal. There were a few times in the games I've seen live that he stares down receivers a bit, and that also gets him into some trouble sometimes. Fields is right now my guy for this franchise. I think he has a similar floor to Lawrence and perhaps a higher ceiling. His mechanics are so good. I think he has an extremely high football IQ and he has a leadership ability that is evident. The disparity in talent compared to the competition at OSU when it comes to skill positions and oline. That's the risk with OSU QBs imo but from everything being said about him in regards to his poise and study habits there's no reason he can't make the adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Berggy9598 said: The disparity in talent compared to the competition at OSU when it comes to skill positions and oline. That's the risk with OSU QBs imo but from everything being said about him in regards to his poise and study habits there's no reason he can't make the adjustment. Sure, but to some extent so does Clemson. I don’t care about the talent. I’m looking at mechanics, on target throws, anticipation, rhythm, decisiveness. The talent around him and any of them obviously helps. But when evaluating you shouldn’t be looking at things that rely on surrounding talent to the largest extent you can. Time in pocket is tough to skirt, though. And items like that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, KDawg said: Sure, but to some extent so does Clemson. I don’t care about the talent. I’m looking at mechanics, on target throws, anticipation, rhythm, decisiveness. The talent around him and any of them obviously helps. But when evaluating you shouldn’t be looking at things that rely on surrounding talent to the largest extent you can. Time in pocket is tough to skirt, though. And items like that one. I know what to look at when evaluating but there's so many intangibles aspects to the position. Going through your progressions and processing information post snap completely changes when there's no defenders near you and your second and third read are future NFL receivers going up against dbs that won't set foot on an NFL field. This also effects things like rhythm, decisiveness and anticipation positively. I don't think it will effect his draft status when all is said and done but he'll be facing a steep transition in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Berggy9598 said: I know what to look at when evaluating but there's so many intangibles aspects to the position. Going through your progressions and processing information post snap completely changes when there's no defenders near you and your second and third read are future NFL receivers going up against dbs that won't set foot on an NFL field. This also effects things like rhythm, decisiveness and anticipation positively. I don't think it will effect his draft status when all is said and done but he'll be facing a steep transition in the NFL. This is the case for nearly every prospect. Lance has the opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 7 hours ago, KDawg said: I really think Fields is an excellent choice if we get the opportunity for him. Would love to see this come to fruition. I'm no QB expert, but I absolutely love his demeanor and think he's going to be something special. Super humble, but absolutely fierce competitor with a drive to be great. Had a lot of fun watching him on QB1 on Netflix and got a glimpse into his home life growing up. Kid is gonna be a star, and hopefully it happens in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 9 hours ago, KDawg said: I really think Fields is an excellent choice if we get the opportunity for him. Great write up. Its a crazy time at work for me (probably posting too much as is) so won't have the time to study prospects until Nov but looking forward to diving into Fields. As I've mentioned what really got my attention is a QB coach worked with both our current Ohio State guy and Fields -- he couldn't hide that the dude he really loved most was Fields, he gushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 9 hours ago, KDawg said: Time in pocket is tough to skirt, though. And items like that one. Yeah, that's going to be tough for any rookie who's coming from a program where he had outstanding protection. Especially if he's going to a team that has subpar protection (ahem), meaning he'll likely be pressured early and often. I really like Fields but he also does have all day to throw on a ton of plays. Though he does have the athleticism and escapability, as does Lance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, mistertim said: Yeah, that's going to be tough for any rookie who's coming from a program where he had outstanding protection. Especially if he's going to a team that has subpar protection (ahem), meaning he'll likely be pressured early and often. I really like Fields but he also does have all day to throw on a ton of plays. Though he does have the athleticism and escapability, as does Lance. Watch his release. It’s quick. Though I think Haskins has a faster release (I’d have to time it to verify) by eye... it’s still really quick. And he has a good handle on what defense’s are trying to do... so I actually think he’d be okay in conjunction with his legs... But this franchise needs to fix the line this offseason for whoever the QB is. And I feel strongly about Ertz if he hits FA being signed (or at least trying to sign him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, KDawg said: Watch his release. It’s quick. Though I think Haskins has a faster release (I’d have to time it to verify) by eye... it’s still really quick. And he has a good handle on what defense’s are trying to do... so I actually think he’d be okay in conjunction with his legs... But this franchise needs to fix the line this offseason for whoever the QB is. And I feel strongly about Ertz if he hits FA being signed (or at least trying to sign him). How would you compared his arm strength to Haskins? To me it looks like he has a pretty decent arm but it's not on the quite the same level as what Haskins has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, mistertim said: How would you compared his arm strength to Haskins? To me it looks like he has a pretty decent arm but it's not on the quite the same level as what Haskins has. Throwing power wise? Haskins can probably zip it in better in the short range stuff. Though Fields get it there really well. Deep ball? Fields can sling it on a rope, on an arc. Haskins usually a lot of arm on his throws. And he’s strong. So that short stuff hums. Fields uses his legs and body torque better. Check out his shoulders, too. So while he’s not zipping it in as fast as Haskins on the short stuff, he’s still got some umph. It’s the stuff further down the field that I think he has a better handle on due to his mechanics. This is a long way of saying that I think Haskins NATURAL arm talent is probably better, but because of natural arm talent AND technique Fields has the better arm. If that makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 10 hours ago, KDawg said: Sure, but to some extent so does Clemson. I don’t care about the talent. I’m looking at mechanics, on target throws, anticipation, rhythm, decisiveness. The talent around him and any of them obviously helps. But when evaluating you shouldn’t be looking at things that rely on surrounding talent to the largest extent you can. Time in pocket is tough to skirt, though. And items like that one. I would argue all the things you mention depend on surrounding talent. 1. Mechanics: When you are under pressure, your mechanics will change as you won't be able to step into your throws as much 2. Accuracy: Pressure definitely affects accuracy 3. Anticipation: Both protection and having receivers that get separation affect how much you can anticipate the play 4. Rhythm: Both protection and having receivers that get separation affect how much you can anticipate the play 5. Decisiveness: Both protection and having receivers that get separation affect how much you can anticipate the play Long story short, there simply is no way you can discount surrounding talent. You can only project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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