2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

If the Jets don’t fire Gase and they pick 1st overall and take a QB they are going to regret it.

[SemperFi Skins]

4 minutes ago, Rskins91 said:

 

Oh no doubt could we lose. I just think the Giants have absolutely nothing special on offense and an O-line that matches up poorly against our D line. 

 

 

Sadly, they're probably saying the exact same thing

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

I work with all Jets fans... they love Darnold, hate Gase, coaches and their entire front office. They've even mentioned firing the guy who cleans the urinals at the stadium just to be safe

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Rskins91 said:

 

Oh no doubt could we lose. I just think the Giants have absolutely nothing special on offense and an O-line that matches up poorly against our D line. 

 

 

Will see.  Giants almost beat the Bears, Rams, Dallas.  All games super tight.  I watched those games, they looked a lot crisper than our team.  Who knows but it doesn't surprise me we are 3.5 point underdogs. 

[PartyPosse]

Daniel Jones for all his turnovers is still miles better at QB than anything we have. I can very easily see us getting gutted by Freeman as well.

[Rskins91]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Daniel Jones for all his turnovers is still miles better at QB than anything we have. I can very easily see us getting gutted by Freeman as well.

I dunno about Freeman. I think the run defense has held up pretty well overall. Most our bad rush D days came from mobile QBs or because we were behind all the time.

[mistertim]

Another thing about Lance that I'm noticing...has a bit of a long windup delivery sometimes. It's still relatively quick because he gets it around pretty fast, but he sometimes drops the ball pretty low when he throws. 

 

I really just don't know how I feel about him as far as drafting. Really fun to watch, talented, decent but not great arm, good accuracy, nice deep touch, very efficient but wasn't asked to do a lot of passing, beat up on subpar competition, seems to have light feet but his footwork will still need a good amount of cleanup, 1 year wonder, has the legs to extend plays but how much is that worth exactly?

 

I'm just not sure I see a high 1st round pick there. 

[KDawg]

I think whoever takes a risk on Lance is going to be extremely happy with the result.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I really just don't know how I feel about him as far as drafting. Really fun to watch, talented, decent but not great arm, good accuracy, nice deep touch, very efficient but wasn't asked to do a lot of passing, beat up on subpar competition, seems to have light feet but his footwork will still need a good amount of cleanup, 1 year wonder, has the legs to extend plays but how much is that worth exactly?

 

I'm just not sure I see a high 1st round pick there. 

 

"Running" QBs are becoming more and more valuable--Jackson, Allen, Murray, Wilson, Watson, and the like were all able to run while their passing improved. PFF posted an article about how the threat of the run simplifies defenses for young QBs too--which would be extremely advantageous for someone like Lance.

 

Quote

The other trait that Lance possesses that opens up playbooks is his running ability. What he can do on the ground, in my opinion, will be more valuable in the NFL than his arm strength. He’s every bit the jumbo run threat that someone like Cam Newton or Josh Allen has been at the NFL level.

Over the course of his college career, he broke 50 tackles on 154 attempts, averaged 7.3 yards per carry and scored 18 touchdowns. He’s going to be the single most versatile rushing threat at the position to enter the league since Lamar Jackson. It can’t be understated how much that impacts opposing defenses. It’s not only a value add to the running game, but it also simplifies looks a quarterback see in coverage. It’s far easier to acclimate a rookie to the NFL when they have that to fall back on. And in the long run, it gives a high floor to whatever offense Lance will be in charge of.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-trey-lance-north-dakota-state-unimpressive-showcase-game-2021-nfl-draft

 

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

"Running" QBs are becoming more and more valuable--Jackson, Allen, Murray, Wilson, Watson, and the like were all able to run while their passing improved. PFF posted an article about how the threat of the run simplifies defenses for young QBs too--which would be extremely advantageous for someone like Lance.

 

 

Yeah that seems to be his main selling point. I know there are guys who are doing well with it at the moment, and it seems to be something that comes and goes. 

 

That article actually actually points me to something that bothers me a bit about Lance's game. The article says "He’s every bit the jumbo run threat that someone like Cam Newton or Josh Allen has been at the NFL level."

 

What? No he isn't. Cam is 6'5 245. Allen is 6'5 240. Lance is 6'3 223. He's the same weight as RG3, but taller. 

 

And therein lies the problem. Lance is NOT one of those "jumbo run threats", but he will run AS IF he is. Which means he takes lots of hits and tries to run through guys. That may work in the MVFC but it ain't gonna work in the NFL. He's going to have to unlearn that style of play pretty fast or he's going to end up mincemeat because he's not fast enough or shifty enough to completely run by guys and/or juke them. IMO he isn't nearly as fast as Lamar Jackson. Jackson is a 4.3 guy, Lance to me looks like a 4.5 guy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Rskins91 said:

I dunno about Freeman. I think the run defense has held up pretty well overall. Most our bad rush D days came from mobile QBs or because we were behind all the time.

I think we struggle with versatile backs and between freeman and Engram (and our consistent track record against TE) I’m very concerned about how easily our weaknesses will be exploited 

[Riggo#44]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

What? No he isn't. Cam is 6'5 245. Allen is 6'5 240. Lance is 6'3 223. He's the same weight as RG3, but taller. 

 

He's 10-15 lbs heavier than Griffin and doesn't have those toothpick legs Griffin had. He's the same size as Watson, bigger (albeit not as fast) than Jackson, so, again, legitimate concerns, but he wasn't taking massive hits. It's another aspect of his game that might need improvement. The thing encouraging about Lance is he was compact when running, and not getting hit very hard.

[mistertim]

29 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

He's 10-15 lbs heavier than Griffin and doesn't have those toothpick legs Griffin had. He's the same size as Watson, bigger (albeit not as fast) than Jackson, so, again, legitimate concerns, but he wasn't taking massive hits. It's another aspect of his game that might need improvement. The thing encouraging about Lance is he was compact when running, and not getting hit very hard.

 

Yeah I was thinking of Griffin when he came out...he was 222 or something at the combine IIRC.

 

And I wasn't so concerned with him taking massive hits, I was concerned about his propensity for trying to run through guys and willingness to often lower his shoulders and take hits head on. He played against inferior competition so most of the guys were smaller and slower than he was. It isn't going to be that way in the NFL.

 

I do like watching him play, but I'm just wary as he has quite a few questions marks IMO. 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/6/2020 at 4:22 PM, mhd24 said:

 

 

I think its obvious we'll be aggressive in FA (with all our cap room) and will target skill position guys.  Unless we get Sewell, I think its unlikely O-line is the pick.  I just don't see Ron bypassing QB if he gets a chance to take Lawrence, Fields, Lance, or even Trask.  Its the biggest need on the roster.

Here's highlights of Kyle Trask's latest game (also for Kyle Pitts fans):

 

 

 

I agree pretty much 100%, though I think the QB's will even trump Sewell.  QB trumps everything.

In terms of QBR last year:

1. 8-8 Dak Prescott

2. Super Bowl Winning Mahomes

3. 13-3 Brees

4. 11-5 Russell Wilson

5.  14-2 #1 overall seed Lamar Jackson

6. 7-9 Derek Carr-Your Outlier

7. 10-6 Kirk Cousins

8. 13-3 Aaron Rodgers

9.  Injured and then the roof caved in Matt Stafford

10. AFC Championship Ryan Tannehill

11. Super Bowl Losing Jimmy G

12. Division Champ D. Watson, dragging that carcass of a team and it's grand mal idiot coach/gm to the playoffs. 

If you look, year after year after year it is various iterations of the same thing: 8-11 of the top 12 QB's make the playoffs, year in and year out. If you have the QB, you have to literally screw up nearly everything else to fail to make the playoffs, and if you have the QB and reasonable lines, corners and pass catchers, then you'll have to really botch it in coaching or have an absolute ---- ton of injuries to fail to contend. 

 

First we get the QB, then we build up OL/DB and WR. It's as simple as that. 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I was thinking of Griffin when he came out...he was 222 or something at the combine IIRC.

 

And I wasn't so concerned with him taking massive hits, I was concerned about his propensity for trying to run through guys and willingness to often lower his shoulders and take hits head on. He played against inferior competition so most of the guys were smaller and slower than he was. It isn't going to be that way in the NFL.

 

I do like watching him play, but I'm just wary as he has quite a few questions marks IMO. 

 

Despite the flaws, he is so enticing. He supposedly a fiery competitor too. We're more than 6 mos away, so lots can change. 

[Skinsinparadise]

[philibusters]

I would be depressed if got a top 5 pick then used it on a LB.  If we get a top 5 pick I would ideally like Sewell first and Ja'Maar Chase second in terms of filling our needs.   Sewell could go as high as second so getting a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee he is available.   Chase will probably go in the 4-8 so its likely if we end with say the fifth pick that he would be available.   He would make a great one to combo with McLaurin for years to come.  Add in Sims and Harmon and you have a nice young receiving staff.  Maybe one of Sims or Harmon leaves after the 2022 seasons but they are replaceable.

[mhd24]

If we have a top 5 pick, its got to be QB.  If somehow, the top 3 guys are gone, then take Sewell or Chase.

[Skinsinparadise]

Right now i am assuming the top 5 will be some order of:

 

Lawrence, Fields, Lance, Sewell, Chase.

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I would be depressed if got a top 5 pick then used it on a LB.  If we get a top 5 pick I would ideally like Sewell first and Ja'Maar Chase second in terms of filling our needs.   Sewell could go as high as second so getting a top 5 pick doesn't guarantee he is available.   Chase will probably go in the 4-8 so its likely if we end with say the fifth pick that he would be available.   He would make a great one to combo with McLaurin for years to come.  Add in Sims and Harmon and you have a nice young receiving staff.  Maybe one of Sims or Harmon leaves after the 2022 seasons but they are replaceable.

 

1. Fields/Lawrence

2. Sewell

 

If we aren't high enough to get the top 3 we can move back...

 

At that point: Chase, Lance, Moore are in play. 

[Skinsinparadise]

The more I digest the narrative around Fields the more I like it.  But i want to watch some games this season first before buying in.

 

 

Justin Fields has made it clear several times over the last few months—he wants to be the best quarterback in the country, which is perhaps proven by winning the national championship and earning the Heisman Trophy.

So it comes as no surprise that Fields has continued a natural progression in his second year running Ohio State's offense. Last year as a newcomer, Fields was focused on making sure he got the plays correct, got everyone lined up where they needed to be and executed what the coaching staff called.

Now, he wants to dive deeper into why, so he can be an extension of the coaching staff on the field.

"Yeah, I feel like last year I was kind of trying to just grasp the offense and learn the reads and learn the protections," Fields said. "But this year, I already know that stuff. So, this year I want to know why (head coach Ryan) Day is calling certain plays on this down or distance. Or why he's doing this in a particular situation. So, just talking to him and asking him those questions, I feel like I'm able to learn that way and kind of think more like him and be that coach on the field, because of course he can't be on the field with us.

"So, I'm just trying to ask as many questions as possible and just learn as much as I can. I definitely feel like I'm a better quarterback this year and will play better than I did last year."

 

It's that kind of attitude that has the Buckeyes and their fans believing that Fields can lead them to a national championship. Talent can only take you so far and Fields most certainly has the talent. But it's the ability to apply that talent and elevate those around you that can help a team reach new heights.

"I want to be the best quarterback in the nation," Fields said. "The best quarterback in college football and just be the best quarterback I can be. So, that is why I've been working so hard in all aspects. You ask yourself what do you want to be and what do you want to accomplish. You want to be the best quarterback, you want to win the national championship and you want to do all of these things with your teammates. So, you sit yourself down and say how do I accomplish all of this? How do I get better? You have to kind of write out a plan.

"So, that's what I did this offseason. I wrote down what I wanted to accomplish and how to accomplish it, and this is just another part of the journey and I'm excited."

Ryan Day, for one, has appreciated how he's been able to spend some additional quality time with Fields and help facilitate his growth.

"It's one thing to see what goes on out on the field, but this time off has allowed us to spend a little more time together," said Day on Tuesday. "I've had a chance to learn more about what makes him tick, what he picks up in meetings and then can take to the field, his real strengths and weaknesses, things that fire him up and motivate him ... there's a lot there. He's a special young man that I've really grown very close to and I think the world of him. I'm just so happy he's going to have the opportunity to play this season ... the more time you spend around each other, that relationship grows stronger and stronger. I'm sure it will continue to grow throughout the season."

 

 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

Fields seems like the opposite of what we've heard about Haskins (please, I have no interest in continuing the cluster**** of a debate. If you don't like what I said, take it to that thread, **** about me there, I'm fine with that).

 

I will be watching a lot of Ohio State this year. I wish we could get more from Lance than just a game, but it is what it is. 

 

Speaking of Lance, if he's a whiff of Josh Allen, he'll be really good. Ths is the first time I've sat and watching him--he's ****ing good and fun to watch.

[KDawg]

 

So, I've been watching a lot of Lawrence.

 

And I keep hearing everyone say this guy is generational. I don't see it.

 

I see a guy with a strong arm, good mobility, a heady player, and a dude that can use his legs relatively well. He's mechanically sound and he's smart enough to take calculated risks off-schedule.

 

But I also see a guy who lives off of the short throws and YAC with these talented Clemson guys. I see a guy who is either pinpoint accurate or fairly erratic. He was bailed out of some really bad throws by his receivers. Ross especially. 

 

He throws a REAL nice bullet pass on corner routes and down the sideline. Gorgeous ball. His arm strength is evident. Anything in the seam he can drop into the bucket with unbelievable reliability. He doesn't throw those often, but when he does it's absolutely beautiful. 

 

He takes too much contact when he runs and runs a lot of option stuff. He doesn't elude pressure and break free very often, but he is always looking to throw first and usually finds a way to be able to, which is a big plus. He throws on a rope on the run. 

 

He clearly knows what the defense is doing snap to snap, but he does have a tendency to lose underneath defenders.

 

One thing that I do like is that when he is erratic it's usually at least in the "catchable" range for his receiver... low and out of range of the DB or way over everyone's head. 

 

I see a guy who is almost certainly going to be a good quarterback in the NFL. I don't see generational. 

 

He has a floor that is fairly high and a ceiling that is franchise QB level. So I understand why people like him... but it's that "generational" word that gets me.

[Riggo#44]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

"generational" word that gets me.

 

It might be the most overused word by draft analysts. Every year there's a "generational" talent--which kind of contradicts the whole "generational" thing.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Fields seems like the opposite of what we've heard about Haskins (please, I have no interest in continuing the cluster**** of a debate. If you don't like what I said, take it to that thread, **** about me there, I'm fine with that).

 

I will be watching a lot of Ohio State this year. I wish we could get more from Lance than just a game, but it is what it is. 

 

Speaking of Lance, if he's a whiff of Josh Allen, he'll be really good. Ths is the first time I've sat and watching him--he's ****ing good and fun to watch.

 

Yeah Keim who is a Ohio State guy went out of his way this morning to say Fields is seen at Ohio State from what he's heard as a leader.  As I mentioned multiple times, a QB coach who worked with before the previous Ohio State QB and who he liked, couldn't contain himself about Fields, gushed about him.