As per NFL.com (and others) Redskins trade with Panthers for Kyle allen (QB)

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

There was no one open to throw to, and there was no way Allen was getting in.  Peppers was right there at the goal line daring him to run.  

 

If you don't run then you don't know if you could have juked him and went around him. He hesitated and should have just run. Peppers got into position afterwards. But there was green before that. He should have at least tried instead of throwing the football away. 

[IrepDC]

Was the 2pt conversion a test to see if Allen would give our receivers a chance in the endzone? 

 

All jokes aside, if Allen can cut down on the turnovers, he'll be a good game manager. This will be his 16th start this week so it's time for him to start doing better in that department. He's averaging 2 turnovers a game right now in his career and that's not going to cut it, even as a backup.

[method man]

1 minute ago, IrepDC said:

Was the 2pt conversion a test to see if Allen would give our receivers a chance in the endzone? 

 

All jokes aside, if Allen can cut down on the turnovers, he'll be a good game manager. This will be his 16th start this week so it's time for him to start doing better in that department. He's averaging 2 turnovers a game right now in his career and that's not going to cut it, even as a backup.

 

When he runs, he looks reckless with the football, palming the ball with one hand vs tucking it. That scares me that it has not been coached out of him

[IrepDC]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

When he runs, he looks reckless with the football, palming the ball with one hand vs tucking it. That scares me that it has not been coached out of him

Agreed. It's an obvious weakness for him. With 31 turnovers in 15 starts, you'd think ball security would be a coaching priority.

 

15 Games

17 INTs 

14 Fumbles 

[Llevron]

22 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

If you don't run then you don't know if you could have juked him and went around him. He hesitated and should have just run. Peppers got into position afterwards. But there was green before that. He should have at least tried instead of throwing the football away. 

 

Agree. Though I dont think he threw the football away I think he did what he could at the moment, what he could was limited. I was surprised he didnt try to run someone over or juke as much as he likes to run it. I was really hoping for some last minute heroics that I would have been mad about during the draft. 

[GOATFrerotte]

 

 

 

[wit33]

 

4 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

 

 

 

 The Giants.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

 The Giants.

 

It's still relevant. Having said that, we do need to take into account that it was against the Derogatory Terms for Large Folk.

 

 

[GOATFrerotte]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

 The Giants.

 

Their defense hasn't been that bad this year. Probably better than the Browns and along the lines of Arizona. Held the Rams and Bears to under 20 points. 

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's still relevant. Having said that, we do need to take into account that it was against the Derogatory Terms for Large Folk.

 

 

No one believes Allen is the guy, so it’s not worth much time, but Allen must provide more chunk plays, 10 play plus drives have value, but decreases if that 10 play drive nets you 40 yards. Just not sure his arm talent and/or anticipatory ability can make it happen consistently in games. Maybe if he had some bigger/physical WR targets that would help like for Example the Saints have provided the weak armed Brees with guys like Colston and Thomas. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

No one believes Allen is the guy, so it’s not worth much time, but Allen must provide more chunk plays, 10 play plus drives have value, but decreases if that 10 play drive nets you 40 yards. Just not sure his arm talent and/or anticipatory ability can make it happen consistently in games. Maybe if he had some bigger/physical WR targets that would help like for Example the Saints have provided the weak armed Brees with guys like Colston and Thomas. 

I think the problem is that his arm isn't there. The 10 play drive is fine for me if we can score, but he was hesitant this game and it showed. he didn't want to get hit again and it showed multiple times. So he was good at the under 10 yard pass, had two nice drag route passes but I was saying to kdawg about maybe putting it higher up would make it less of a difficult catch. That said, he made the throws he needed until that last one. 

 

My worry is that he doesn't protect the ball. We saw it on the sack and we saw it on the int. I think he is more problematic for ints because of his lack of arm strength. Its the same reason his short passes are catchable, his off target passes are more likely to be brought down by a defender whereas the pure velocity on the ball makes Haskins ball harder to catch. But I don't know. Hopefully he can get better at getting scrambling and looking for throwing lanes or just running out of bounds on plays that he sees nothing. 

[GOATFrerotte]

I don't know if this is a good thing or bad thing, but it is eerie. 

 

 

 

 

[wit33]

34 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think the problem is that his arm isn't there. The 10 play drive is fine for me if we can score, but he was hesitant this game and it showed. he didn't want to get hit again and it showed multiple times. So he was good at the under 10 yard pass, had two nice drag route passes but I was saying to kdawg about maybe putting it higher up would make it less of a difficult catch. That said, he made the throws he needed until that last one. 
 

 

The Mcclaurin throw messed him up mentally it seemed, especially with working reads down the middle of the field with depth past 10 yards. He seems much more comfortable giving guys chances on the sidelines versus middle of the field. For my football guys in here, is that true for most young and/or average QBs? Does it feel safer for the QB? 
 

He was solid, but not good enough for me to forget about Haskins and hoping he lets this fuel him get the job back for the last half of the season. I still have confidence in how Ron manages relationships and hope Haskins can resurface. To be honest, just even for pure fan value as I was about as bored as ever watching that game and no interest in seeing Allen play.
 

At least Haskins fires up some debate in here lol Adds to my overall experience during a bland and boring year. 
 

 

 

Quote

 

My worry is that he doesn't protect the ball. We saw it on the sack and we saw it on the int. I think he is more problematic for ints because of his lack of arm strength. Its the same reason his short passes are catchable, his off target passes are more likely to be brought down by a defender whereas the pure velocity on the ball makes Haskins ball harder to catch. But I don't know. Hopefully he can get better at getting scrambling and looking for throwing lanes or just running out of bounds on plays that he sees nothing. 

His scrambling is most perplexing to me and I have chosen to drive home the point by saying he has no better idea of how to scramble than this years version of Haskins. He obviously has more ability, so will experience some success. He only ran for 103 yards in 32 attempts And 9 first downs in 13 games last year, extremely low for the speed he has. 
 

Protecting the ball is an issue, now you wonder if he’s going to go to the extreme to preserve his career this year by playing it ultra safe. We’ll see. 
 

 

***Haskins in 9 games last year ran for 101 yards on 20 attempts and 7 first downs. 

[GOATFrerotte]

 

Interested in seeing what he does with a game and a half under his belt. He has touch and the ability to extend plays and make plays. Just gotta avoid the turnovers and he'll be fine. 

 

[owa]

Thought he looked pretty good for the most part with two really nice throws and stretching for the first down on that one (although I'm thinking oh no, he's going to fumble that).  The turnovers were killer though.  The fumble was bad but the interception, not even sure what he was thinking on that. I've read that he misread the coverage but geez, can't throw it straight to the opposing team.

[pico926]

7 hours ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Their defense hasn't been that bad this year. Probably better than the Browns and along the lines of Arizona. Held the Rams and Bears to under 20 points. 

The Giants

[NoCalMike]

The thing is Kyle Allen did enough to show why Haskins isn't ready, but also why he himself is not the answer.  Allen doesn't have the benefit of "still learning the offense" either.  I think the offense overall did improve, but not by leaps & bounds.  It was always against the NYG who will promptly go back to looking horrible now. 

[wit33]

3 hours ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Interested in seeing what he does with a game and a half under his belt. He has touch and the ability to extend plays and make plays. Just gotta avoid the turnovers and he'll be fine. 

 

Still waiting to see his ability to extend and make plays come to fruition. Not that it doesn’t ever happen, but not much. I’m hopeful it will present itself more consistently.

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Still waiting to see his ability to extend and make plays come to fruition. Not that it doesn’t ever happen, but not much. I’m hopeful it will present itself more consistently.

 

 

He was certainly more mobile that Haskins was in escaping the pocket.  He wasn't great against NYG (Look up the Bullock article), but he's the best QB on the roster IMO (which isn't saying much).

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

He was certainly more mobile that Haskins was in escaping the pocket.  He wasn't great against NYG (Look up the Bullock article), but he's the best QB on the roster IMO (which isn't saying much).

His mobility is overrated to me at this point. No conclusions but must show a bit more and have it lead to positive plays consistently. Last year for example, Haskins was the more effective runner from a yardage and first gain standpoint if going by per game average. 
 

Not saying you’re right or wrong, but personally  I can’t say he’s better than Haskins from what I’ve seen to date. I also don’t discount that Allen played against the Giants and still was below average. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Still waiting to see his ability to extend and make plays come to fruition. Not that it doesn’t ever happen, but not much. I’m hopeful it will present itself more consistently.

He escaped left out of the pocket and then ripped a laser across his body for a first down at one point, but I agree we need to use his mobility more. 

[wit33]

3 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

He escaped left out of the pocket and then ripped a laser across his body for a first down at one point, but I agree we need to use his mobility more. 

It will happen for any QB inevitably, but with his wheels it should happen more, but I don’t think he’s very skilled to do it enough consistently. It’s not to say it will never happen, just thought it might be more than what we’ve seen. I hope that changes, hey, still a game out.

 

I do t think it’s a case of the team needing to use his legs more I actually think Turner did a lot of it in the game versus the Giants. Allen seems to do well when it’s scripted to use his mobility (the case for most not a bad thing). I’m saying I believe Allen lacks above average play making ability.
 

Haskins rushed for more yards per game than Allen last year, weird, right? 

[KDawg]

I stand by my comment that Allen played a good game until you factor in the big turnovers and that tips it to more “meh”.

 

But I think some are purposely overlooking some of the stuff he did. The touch, the heads up scramble where he stuck the ball out for a first down, the ability to create off schedule. 
 

The offense looked pretty decent. It was NFL caliber despite some head scratchers from Turner.

 

But the turnovers are a problem. A big one. But he’s competent.

[Mr. Sinister]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I stand by my comment that Allen played a good game until you factor in the big turnovers and that tips it to more “meh”.

 

But I think some are purposely overlooking some of the stuff he did. The touch, the heads up scramble where he stuck the ball out for a first down, the ability to create off schedule. 
 

The offense looked pretty decent. It was NFL caliber despite some head scratchers from Turner.

 

But the turnovers are a problem. A big one. But he’s competent.

 

He made some very impressive throws under duress 

[Thinking Skins]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I stand by my comment that Allen played a good game until you factor in the big turnovers and that tips it to more “meh”.

 

But I think some are purposely overlooking some of the stuff he did. The touch, the heads up scramble where he stuck the ball out for a first down, the ability to create off schedule. 
 

The offense looked pretty decent. It was NFL caliber despite some head scratchers from Turner.

 

But the turnovers are a problem. A big one. But he’s competent.

This is why I have no problem seeing what we have in him. Maybe he can grow out of the turnovers, maybe not. But he is competent. Kyle had Rex and Jay had Colt. Now Scott has Kyle. All are serviceable QBs, the first two didn't become elite but we can see where Kyle levels off. 

 

You bring up the turnovers and while they are problematic, I felt about those the same way I felt about Haskins turnovers against Cleveland, they didn't really hurt us until they hurt us. Against cleveland we had the first 3 turnovers and then took a 20-17 4th quarter lead so those aren't the reason we lost. Of course we can point fingers and analyze the loss. But in my opinion that 4th and 5th turnover were the real backbreakers. 

 

I don't think Kyle's turnovers were as bad as the 4th adn 5th turnover against Cleveland. After each turnover (and necessary opposition touchdown) he was able to drive the team down the field and score. If we didn't go for twe we have a tie game going into overtime. I like the call to go for two though with a chance to win it all with a QB who was doing well. 

 

But I can't ignore that he did it against the Giants. Haskins has looked good against the Eagles and the Giants and then had a good second half against the Eagles this year. I'm now in a "can you do it again mode" with Allen. If he can only do these type of performances against bad teams then I'm not mad but that will place a lower ceiling on him. But the good thing is he's going up against Dallas and NY next so he has some easy defenses to feed off. We'll see how he responds.