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The Coaching Staff thread: Now complete OP edited 1/15/20


Burgold

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Ok, maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not really thrilled with this...not the person, but the idea that Rivera is leaning so heavily on position coaches he's worked with before. I don't want there to be a Carolina Connection like there was a Tampa Connection. I refuse to believe the best and most qualified just happened to all have worked with Rivera before lol...

 

I just don't want "I've worked with him before" to be the number one qualification for new hires.


The criteria is they know the system. 

 

The DB’s coach was brought over from the Chargers, who run a similar Tampa 2 scheme. 
 

It’s the exact opposite of hiring Haslett, primarily a 4-3 coach, and telling him to run a 3-4. 

21 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Pat Shurmur.......don't dislike this based on his work as an OC. Interesting.


I’ve been hoping he would be the choice. Is there news on this?

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32 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:


The criteria is they know the system. 

 

The DB’s coach was brought over from the Chargers, who run a similar Tampa 2 scheme. 
 

It’s the exact opposite of hiring Haslett, primarily a 4-3 coach, and telling him to run a 3-4. 


I’ve been hoping he would be the choice. Is there news on this?

 

I'm guessing, though, that these same coaches didn't know the system when they were first hired by/under Rivera, yet apparently they were still able to succeed. And as you also pointed out, the DB coach is assumed to be able to "know the system" without having worked directly under Rivera. Plus since he's going to have a new OC and DC, it's not an automatic that the former Panthers coaches will know the offensive and defensive system significantly better than other coaches around the league. It comes across far more to me as Rivera knows these coaches more than these coaches know the system.

 

My assumption has to also be that Del Rio was on board with the LB coach selection.... I prefer thinking that to thinking JDR had other coaches that he felt would be a better fit but since those coaches didn't previouisly work for Rivera they weren't considered.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

My assumption has to also be that Del Rio was on board with the LB coach selection.... I prefer thinking that to thinking JDR had other coaches that he felt would be a better fit but since those coaches didn't previouisly work for Rivera they weren't considered.

Wasn't he one of the folks who came up to "interview' for jobs over the last couple of days?  My guess, Ron liked him, he came up to visit with Jack. 

 

I agree, I doubt very much Ron is going to stick Jack with coaches he doesn't like/want/trust.  And I'm sure that was discussed with Ron called Jack to convince him to take the job here.  

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3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Ok, maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not really thrilled with this...not the person, but the idea that Rivera is leaning so heavily on position coaches he's worked with before. I don't want there to be a Carolina Connection like there was a Tampa Connection. I refuse to believe the best and most qualified just happened to all have worked with Rivera before lol...

 

I just don't want "I've worked with him before" to be the number one qualification for new hires.

 

I mean, you're 100% right. But...there's a practicality to all of this. It seems most (if not all?) NFL coaches operate this way. So not sure any hire would be that different. There's a healthy dose of cronyism in the NFL and Rivera has enough experience that he probably has more connections than most. Not to mention, as @Voice_of_Reason pointed out, sometimes scheme is a concern. You're not likely to hire a 3-4 coordinator if you want to run a 4-3. Even if the 3-4 coordinator is "better". Availability is also huge factor. A fair number of NFL coaches are under contract or simply might not be looking to move to another city if they have a decent job. Rivera is also in a somewhat unusual situation of being fired and then getting immediately rehired. It does happen (see Gase, Adam). But there's usually a gap between jobs. In this case, Rivera's whole staff seems available and if Rivera thought these were the best guys he could put together in Carolina in 2019, not much will likely have changed in the last year to convince him they aren't he best guys for 2020. I think it just is what it is.

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16 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Ok fair enough. I had the change backwards. Still a jerk move to block people from interviewing. 

 

It doesn't happen a ton, but it happens more than most people think. I know the Texans blocked Mike Vrabel a few times for coordinator positions. Someone mentioned the Steelers blocking Grimm. So it does happen.

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I did this in another thread, thought it would save people the clicks from having to google and wiki names of Ron's staffs over the years in Carolina.

As names are announced or names fished for, click, most names hyperlink to wiki where you can read basic bio information.

 

 

2011 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front Office

 

Head Coaches

Offensive Coaches

   

Defensive Coaches

 

Special Teams Coaches

 

Strength and Conditioning

  • Strength and Conditioning – Joe Kenn
  • Assistant Strength and Conditioning – Adam Feit

 

2012 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

  • Strength and Conditioning – Joe Kenn
  • Assistant Strength and Conditioning – Adam Feit

 

2013 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

 

 

 

Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

  • Strength and Conditioning – Joe Kenn

Assistant Strength and Conditioning – Jason Benguche

 

2014 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

 

2015 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

 

2016 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

 

2017 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

  • Strength and Conditioning – Joe Kenn

 

2018 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

 

 

 

Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

 

2019 Carolina Panthers staff
 
  Front office

 

Head coaches

Offensive coaches

    Defensive coaches

 

Special teams coaches

 

Strength and conditioning

 

 

Look at that 'Ol Ray Brown was a longtime o-line coach with Ron. Get 'ol Ray back here ... maybe he can still play 😀.

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The more I think about the issue the more I believe that coaches do matter, but it always ultimately comes down to the roster of players.

 

I think Ron Rivera is a great hire as coach, (Del Rio too!!) for the situation this franchise is in.  A lot of young players that need direction and an identity.  I believe the new coaching staff will definitely instill those kinds of things.  Does it mean they are bound for a contender status due to these coaches? That is where I pump the breaks.

 

Outside of Belichick. I am not sure which coaches in the modern era you can make a clear case have had that kind of impact consistently on the teams.   You can take a guy like Andy Reid who wins a ton, has had many teams that could contend, but has never sealed the deal.  Then Doug Pederson comes along and the Eagles win their first superbowl with a back up QB, who has failed every time he was previously named a starter, that caught fire at the right time and now people consider Pederson a genius. 

 

I think so many factors going into winning a superbowl that it shows how legendary Belichick is that the Patriots manage to do it so much, even with all the turnover of personnel in the modern NFL.

 

I think Rivera & Del Rio will take this young roster and set them on the right course, make them better, even get them to be fighting for the playoffs.  Beyond that, though?  I still think it is going to be how effectively the front office builds the team. 

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The way I imagine it works is that a coach has about a grade level effect. That is a good coach can push a C team to a B and a bad coach can push a C team to a D. Likewise, A great coach is probably worth a grade and a half (think Gibbs and the scrubs beating the Cowboys and their probowl laden team) while a terrible coach can bush a good team into lousy. Think Chip Kelly's Eagles or Jeff Fisher's Rams. 

 

I think that's pretty much what we saw with Manusky. I think we had the talent on D to be a B level team and he was so awful he coached us down to a D/F. For what it's worth, I think Gruden with the exception of 2019, probably was the kind of coach who either raised a team half a letter grade or got them to play at their talent level.

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The NFL is in a major transition. Brady, Brees, Eli and Rivers are on the way out. 7 of the 8 remaining teams in the playoffs were not among the final 8 last year except the Chiefs. I think Ron can have a 49ers this year type of turnaround. Everything is in flux. We definitely have an opportunity.

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23 hours ago, skinzplay said:

 

But the PR firm of O'Connell & Cooley have the shallow local media believing (and repeating) that O'Connell has so many opportunities. The Chargers need an OC (no call to the Skins). The Bears need an OC (no call to the Skins). The Dolphins fired their OC, too, but reached in the attic and dusted off Chan Gailey instead of calling Ashburn about O'Connell. Shocker, especially since he's so brilliant and we're being told over and over that he has so many options. He does not.

 

I've seen rumors KOC would be on McDaniels radar as an OC if he takes a HC job.  

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5 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I've seen rumors KOC would be on McDaniels radar as an OC if he takes a HC job.  

 

But what would his role be? If he held the title of OC, he wouldn't truly be the OC because it's McDaniels' offense and McDaniels will definitely be calling the plays. A job's a job, so I'm not knocking it.........my jibes are just playful mocking of just how high a pedestal people seem to hold O'Connell when he really hasn't accomplished anything to merit it. Nothing against the young man. In fact, if Rivera decides to keep him, I'm good. His team, his consequences. And if he's the OC for the Skins, then you'd better damn well believe I want him to be successful. The Costanza-Tony thing is just a little outta hand, it seems.

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13 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I've seen rumors KOC would be on McDaniels radar as an OC if he takes a HC job.  

I wish the league would give compensatory picks for coaches leaving the staff.....we would have 3 or 4 first rounders.

 

But anyways, I would let KOS walk.  He may turn out to be a stud but Ron is going to be here for a long time and why risk holding on to an unproven and unexperienced coach when you don't have to.  If KOS turns out to be a dud then you have to fire him and find a more experienced coach anyways.  Why waste the time; Ron seems like he would like to get it right the first time around.  Ron has sooooo many connections its just not worth the risk to gamble.  Offer KOS the QB job and if he's smart he will stay and learn how a real coach puts a team together.

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11 minutes ago, Poindexter said:

I wish the league would give compensatory picks for coaches leaving the staff.....we would have 3 or 4 first rounders.

 

But anyways, I would let KOS walk.  He may turn out to be a stud but Ron is going to be here for a long time and why risk holding on to an unproven and unexperienced coach when you don't have to.  If KOS turns out to be a dud then you have to fire him and find a more experienced coach anyways.  Why waste the time; Ron seems like he would like to get it right the first time around.  Ron has sooooo many connections its just not worth the risk to gamble.  Offer KOS the QB job and if he's smart he will stay and learn how a real coach puts a team together.

 

You raise some interesting points here, Poindexter. People seem to want to elevate O'Connell to rockstar OC status because, in their eyes, he has been responsible for the progression seen in Haskins. If that's the case, then shouldn't Rattay be posing for photos with his Nobel Prize for Quarterback Coaching? Haven't heard a whisper about him. I guess he doesn't pal around with Cooley. I think that after the criticism from his antics at the end of the Detroit game, Haskins started to get more serious about what he needed to do. My guess is that when he's focused, the kid has the potential to be really good. Rivera isn't going to play around with him and give him a lot of leniency.

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45 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

The NFL is in a major transition. Brady, Brees, Eli and Rivers are on the way out. 7 of the 8 remaining teams in the playoffs were not among the final 8 last year except the Chiefs. I think Ron can have a 49ers this year type of turnaround. Everything is in flux. We definitely have an opportunity.

 

If the players buy in, which is definitely possible given Rivera's credibility and track record, and if Haskins put in the work and continue on the progression that he was having, then this team can make some strides.  It will take time, but the opportunities are there

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@Burgold Not sure if this has already been posted yet. Your OP has a question mark in front of his name. This was on WP website. 

 

"The Washington Redskins reached an agreement to hire Ryan Vermillion, formerly of the Carolina Panthers, as their head athletic trainer, and they intend to use the overhaul of their training staff as a key element of Coach Ron Rivera’s attempt to get star left tackle Trent Williams to return to the team, according to a person familiar with the situation."

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29 minutes ago, Poindexter said:

I wish the league would give compensatory picks for coaches leaving the staff.....we would have 3 or 4 first rounders.

 

But anyways, I would let KOS walk.  He may turn out to be a stud but Ron is going to be here for a long time and why risk holding on to an unproven and unexperienced coach when you don't have to.  If KOS turns out to be a dud then you have to fire him and find a more experienced coach anyways.  Why waste the time; Ron seems like he would like to get it right the first time around.  Ron has sooooo many connections its just not worth the risk to gamble.  Offer KOS the QB job and if he's smart he will stay and learn how a real coach puts a team together.

I would too.  And I'd be interested in a Shurmur since he ain't likely getting another HC gig and the Skins could have some continuity with their coordinators.  Like how Eli had Kevin Gilbride for most of his career.  If KOC is successful he'll be gone quick.  

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28 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

, Pat Shurmur who that have interviewed

Going under the assumption that you meant to say "they",Where is this reported?

 

I thought at this point we had interest and they didn't know what shurmur wanted yet?

 

 

This was from an article yesterday.

 

 

An NBC Sports Washington report said the NFC East rival Redskins have internally discussed Shurmur in case new coach Ron Rivera wants to replace coordinator Kevin O’Connell. An ESPN report said there has not been an interview scheduled and none is imminent.

 

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8 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Going under the assumption that you meant to say "they".

Where is this reported?

I thought at this point we had interest and they didn't know what shurmur wanted yet?

 

 

Oh yea, "they" and yes, Hoffman said they did interview Shurmur.  That was a surprise to me because all reports were to the contrary.

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4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Oh yea, "they" and yes, Hoffman said they did interview Shurmur.  That was a surprise to me because all reports were to the contrary.

Yeah, I cant find one shred of evidence that we interviewed shurmur.

I'd be happy if it was true.

 

How credible is Hoffman?

 

This seems like something that'd show up several times on a pat shurmur Google search.

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4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Yeah, I cant find one shred of evidence that we interviewed shurmur.

I'd be happy if it was true.

 

How credible is Hoffman?

 

This seems like something that'd show up several times on a pat shurmur Google search.

 

Hoffman is one of the best, he usually doesn't put BS out there.

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