PartyPosse Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: What would I have to own up to @PartyPosse? That people were heaping too high expectations on him? Not sure I follow you. If he becomes a double-digit sack, perennial pro-bowler, what will you say? You claim that hype was garbage and I'm assuming you're hinting that we should have gone a different route. What happens if he does indeed become that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I love Chase Young. There is absolutely a chance that we come to regret passing on Tua. At the time of the draft I said we should consider Tua, but I was in favor of drafting Chase Young because I remained optimistic about Dwayne Haskins. That optimism was misplaced. I still think Chase is going to be an All Pro. But we HAVE to find a QB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: There were quite a few. I think some, myself included, had expectations that Reuben Foster would be a contributor. **** happens. Outside of Patrick Queen there really wasn't much I saw worth drafting high. I didn't love Gibson in the third and would have hoped we addressed our LB problems there, especially with Baun and Greenland still on the board. Neither has really shown much either though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: If he becomes a double-digit sack, perennial pro-bowler, what will you say? You claim that hype was garbage and I'm assuming you're hinting that we should have gone a different route. What happens if he does indeed become that? I think you’re very confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 A lot of season left for him to put up cool stats us fans are starving for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 6 hours ago, KDawg said: My thing is that he shouldn’t have had that kind of hype anyway. Generational is a lot to put on a first year NFL pass rusher coming off a monster season from Nick Bosa, who was surrounded by not only great defensive line mates... but damn good backers and a good secondary. The hype that this fan base in particular put on him... he was never going to meet in year one. I was one of a handful that said we should consider Tua. I was laughed at. I still liked Young. Thought he was tremendous. His play was amazing in college and I believed and still do believe that his ability will continue to grow at the pro level. He’s going to be an awesome edge for a decade plus. 9ish sacks/season for a decade gives him close to our sack record. If he stays here that long I’m sure he’ll get to that number. Thing is, though, we passed on QBs for a pass rusher on an abysmal defense. Which I’m fine with... but the fan base has to understand that pass rushers only succeed when the rest of their defense is up to the task of at least being decent across the board. Our backers aren’t 60% of the Niners backers from last year. I really wish we had a way to get Logan Wilson. We’d look different. 1 hour ago, PartyPosse said: If he becomes a double-digit sack, perennial pro-bowler, what will you say? You claim that hype was garbage and I'm assuming you're hinting that we should have gone a different route. What happens if he does indeed become that? Took the liberty to some up my point... The hype put on him wasn’t fair to him. And now the dude is hurt and people are crushing him. He’s a badass but it’s pretty hard for anyone to dominate when your backers and safeties don’t hold up their end of the bargain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmandoug1 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, tmandoug1 said: Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. Chase. unless you’re 100% convinced either of the QBs will be great enough to take you to the promised land You have to take a potential defensive stall worth and right now absolutely no one can say diddlysquat about what Tua or Herbert can do. Certainly not after 2 and 5 games respectively. If you’re already that convinced that either of those are future HoFers as much as you are Chase won’t live up to the hype than I have no interest having any sort of football conversation with you because you clearly don’t know a thing about the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, tmandoug1 said: Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. If we know what we know now about DH, yes of course you take one of the QB's, whichever is your preference. Herbert would probably be the choice just given his smarts, size, and athleticism. And none of this is a knock on Chase. Chase is already fantastic and one of, if not, our best defender. He's gonna be great. Edited November 11, 2020 by COWBOY-KILLA- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, tmandoug1 said: Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. I really like Chase Young and think he's going to be an absolute stud, but honestly, with hindsight regarding Haskins, it's a coinflip between Young and Herbert for me. Edited November 11, 2020 by London Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) As perhaps the biggest believer that you need the best QB you can get on this board I was perfectly fine passing on Tua for Chase, nobody was suggesting Herbert at 2 and revisionist history is unfair. They had the chance to grab an unbelievable prospect at a critical position and they simply had to find out what they had in Dwayne Haskins. With that said I don't think anyone saw 7 sacks for the year, especially after the opener. I remain convinced the drop off is a result of him not exploding off the line as he did in college. But I also recognize that nearly every great pass rusher developed over time, his stats line up just fine with rookie stats of some of the best pass rushers of all time. So I'm still fine with Chase Young as our pick but if you asked me today yes I would trade him for Herbert and possibly Tua (injury risk there). Edited November 11, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 hours ago, tmandoug1 said: Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. Tough to pass on Young given all the questions going into the draft. Young is a very highly talented defensive lineman. I wouldn’t have been upset if we went Tua or Herbert at the time. But you can’t hindsight this kind of thing. If you did, you’d have to hindsight Young’s groin injury. If I could do anything it would be to remove some of the crazy hype people put on Young and let him develop without all the non sense noise in the background. He is extremely talented and is a difference maker defensively... but it’s not always in the sack department. But the DL isn’t going to be as effective if the LBs and Safeties can’t get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 9 hours ago, tmandoug1 said: Do over time.....you pick. Young Hebert Tua Be honest. E. Wait 2 years. This overreaction to half a season is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, London Kev said: I really like Chase Young and think he's going to be an absolute stud, but honestly, with hindsight regarding Haskins, it's a coinflip between Young and Herbert for me. So, what if we get Fields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 On 11/9/2020 at 1:38 PM, NoCalMike said: Yeah if takes 2 O-lineman AND a RB to block Chase Young......Chase Young isn't the problem, it means the other members of the D-line can't even beat their 1 on 1 matchups. I think the D-line is really missing Ionnadis. I'm sorry to say but Allen & Payne have not been the presence in the middle that we all expected they would be. Both of them have individual good games here and there, and I think overall Payne has had a pretty solid 2020, however, you need a D-line that can collpase the pocket or at least push it backwards because that is what causes the QB to crumble into the pursuit of the pass rushers on the outside. My only response to this is to watch that clip again. Payne carries the guard 9 yards and ends up running him into Sweat, taking Sweat out of the play. There were 7 players and a chpping RB dedicated to blocking 4. 65 was looking for someone to block because Sweat, Payne, and Allen were already past him. Payne pushing his guy, and Allen engaging, then shucking his blocker. The problem is the 3 of them basically ran into each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: So, what if we get Fields? The list was a choice using the benefit of hindsight, and you've gone and introduced an option that includes foresight. The temporal dynamics of all this is too much for my tired old brain 😀. Is the answer 42? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, London Kev said: The list was a choice using the benefit of hindsight, and you've gone and introduced an option that includes foresight. The temporal dynamics of all this is too much for my tired old brain 😀. Is the answer 42? The choice is we would be picking 32 because if we had the benefit of hindsight we’d have a hall of famer at every position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: The choice is we would be picking 32 because if we had the benefit of hindsight we’d have a hall of famer at every position. I don't understand what you mean. The choice was between Young, Herbert and Tua, if you could go back and pick again (do-over). Unless I'm reading it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 52 minutes ago, London Kev said: I don't understand what you mean. The choice was between Young, Herbert and Tua, if you could go back and pick again (do-over). Unless I'm reading it wrong? You said it was using the benefit of hindsight. Well if we had the benefit of hindsight we'd have the greatest team of all time because we'd know before every draft who is gonna thrive and who won't. We'd have Russell Wilson instead of RG3, Tyreek Hill instead of Josh Doctson etc. Hindsight is a bad way of judging and merely an opportunity for casual people to brag about one of the darts they threw actually landing. But with the 2020 draft, hindsight doesn't exist yet. Nothing has changed from when they were drafted to now in terms of where everyone would go. Do you think Miami is kicking themselves for taking Tua instead of Herbert? Or Detroit taking a CB instead of Okudah? Doubt it. Most people don't judge this early. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: You said it was using the benefit of hindsight. Well if we had the benefit of hindsight we'd have the greatest team of all time because we'd know before every draft who is gonna thrive and who won't. We'd have Russell Wilson instead of RG3, Tyreek Hill instead of Josh Doctson etc. Hindsight is a bad way of judging and merely an opportunity for casual people to brag about one of the darts they threw actually landing. But with the 2020 draft, hindsight doesn't exist yet. Nothing has changed from when they were drafted to now in terms of where everyone would go. Do you think Miami is kicking themselves for taking Tua instead of Herbert? Or Detroit taking a CB instead of Okudah? Doubt it. Most people don't judge this early. The hindsight was just in relation to Haskins. At the time of the draft I thought that we may have been set at QB and so Young was the obvious pick, but in hindsight maybe we're not and so maybe Herbert (or Tua) would have been the better choice. I was just responding to a casual, what-if question. I think that you may be over-analysing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 hours ago, London Kev said: The list was a choice using the benefit of hindsight, and you've gone and introduced an option that includes foresight. The temporal dynamics of all this is too much for my tired old brain 😀. Is the answer 42? 55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I'm not convinced Herbert would look as good here as he has with the Chargers. He's got more weapons out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 6:42 PM, Anselmheifer said: I love Chase Young. There is absolutely a chance that we come to regret passing on Tua. At the time of the draft I said we should consider Tua, but I was in favor of drafting Chase Young because I remained optimistic about Dwayne Haskins. That optimism was misplaced. I still think Chase is going to be an All Pro. But we HAVE to find a QB I really don't think Tua would have survived our O-Line especially at the beginning of the year. Coming off an injury like he had I don't think we could risk drafting or playing him. Besides, Haskins was a question mark. It was possible backed by a coaching staff that believed in him he would reach his promise. Still don't know what to make of him, but it doesn't look good. Chase has been good. He hasn't gotten the wow plays yet, but I think it's relatively rare for rookie DEs to get crazy numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Herbert in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) I also think Case gives our D some personality and fun. I'm not sure how to explain it in English...but most of our D is pretty "hard work, lunch box, grind football guys". From Jonathan Allen to Fuller. Look at the practise and game footage. He brings a fun and playfull element we kinda missed. He plays hard but is having fun, that vibe rubs off to other people. Portis, Moss and ST had that same kind of vibe. If you have to many it becomes a clown show. But a couple gives your team something extra. I mean this look and dance says it all: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CHdZvJgpSCf/?igshid=1opz8y2ata4d4 Edited November 12, 2020 by wilco_holland 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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