Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[nonniey]

On 1/6/2020 at 8:03 PM, kingdaddy said:

Once we draft Young, with the possible additions of Reuben Foster, Bryce Love, whatever free agents we get, a second year Haskins and a new coaching staff, could this be the most anticipated Skins season ever???? At least since 2012.

No that abortion of a 2000 season was the most anticipated season I can remember (I remember as I got into lots of arguments over the Sanders signing, which I hated, over how great he was going to be vice what a waste of money and disruption he'd be).

Edited January 10, 2020 by nonniey

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Absolutely. This would cause me quite a bit of angst if I were making the selection. Chase or a crapload of picks? That scenario could easily play out now that Tua has declared. 

 

Do you really think that someone is going to give up an RG3 level haul of picks to move up for a guy who is currently rehabbing from a devastating injury and may never be the same player again? Seems like one hell of a risk. 

[Chump Bailey]

58 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Do you really think that someone is going to give up an RG3 level haul of picks to move up for a guy who is currently rehabbing from a devastating injury and may never be the same player again? Seems like one hell of a risk. 

 

Point taken. His prognosis is good from what I can discern as of now anyway. It's not out of the realm. He should still warrant plenty of attention and it's doubtful he slips past the Dolphins. The Raiders may make a move and sit him too if need be. Stranger things have happened. Plenty of teams are going to be looking at the QB position pretty hard I would imagine.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Do you really think that someone is going to give up an RG3 level haul of picks to move up for a guy who is currently rehabbing from a devastating injury and may never be the same player again? Seems like one hell of a risk. 

I think it's definitely possible, yes. There are teams out there that know you need a QB to win and if Tua is that guy I don't think someone like Gruden bats an eye at dealing 3 firsts and a 2nd to move up and get him. 

Look at Tampa Bay....they will move on from Winston and will need a QB. Who's it gonna be? If they want Tua I can see them making a huge offer as well, assuming they have picks to offer. From what I've heard Tua is supposed to fully recover.

[mhd24]

The Jets "only" paid 3 2nd rounders to move up to get one of 3 QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen/Rosen).  Unless we are blown away, I think we stick at 2 and take Chase.

[kingdaddy]

Detroit is actually in a great spot too. They will get nice offers to drop back and I'd expect they could still get their man if they drop back to #5 where Miami sits. Then, we become the focus of the other teams who couldn't get Detroit to deal with them. Lets say Oakland moves up to 3 by offering a slew of picks to Detroit. Miami will then need to call us assuming they want Tua too. It could get really crazy....

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

The Jets "only" paid 3 2nd rounders to move up to get one of 3 QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen/Rosen).  Unless we are blown away, I think we stick at 2 and take Chase.

Yes but remember how badly the Jets messed that up....If I recall, they didn't go up far enough? 

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Detroit is actually in a great spot too. They will get nice offers to drop back and I'd expect they could still get their man if they drop back to #5 where Miami sits. Then, we become the focus of the other teams who couldn't get Detroit to deal with them. Lets say Oakland moves up to 3 by offering a slew of picks to Detroit. Miami will then need to call us assuming they want Tua too. It could get really crazy....

Yes but remember how badly the Jets messed that up....If I recall, they didn't go up far enough? 

No one is moving until they know who is picked and on the clock. Raiders not moving to 3 before we make our pick so Miami can jump them. 
 

The only one dumb enough to pull that move was Vinny trading with Denver to draft Jason Campbell the day before the draft. Then passing in Aaron Rodgers when the opportunity was there.

[Audible_Red40]

Locks:

 

1. Burrow

2. Young

 

Trading period begins after first 2 picks.  No way either team moves, unless Cincy is blown away, we will not be blown away at #2

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I think it's definitely possible, yes. There are teams out there that know you need a QB to win and if Tua is that guy I don't think someone like Gruden bats an eye at dealing 3 firsts and a 2nd to move up and get him. 

Look at Tampa Bay....they will move on from Winston and will need a QB. Who's it gonna be? If they want Tua I can see them making a huge offer as well, assuming they have picks to offer. From what I've heard Tua is supposed to fully recover.

 

There are certainly teams out there that need a QB, but that doesn't change the devastating nature of Tua's injury and the fact that nobody will know whether he'll ever be the same football player. Sure he's on the mend, and he's apparently going to make a full recovery. But there's a difference between "recovering" mechanically from an injury and playing football, especially with an injury like that. It would be a huge risk for any team to pony up multiple first round picks to move up for a guy who may never be the same player he was before his injury. Add to that the fact that Tua already had an injury history before this and...I dunno, that's just insanely risky. 

 

Someone will take a chance on Tua in the 1st I'm guessing (assuming his recovery goes ok) but I find it very unlikely that anyone will move up for him. IMO someone will take a chance on him if he falls into their laps...perhaps Miami or LA up high or the Raiders or Tampa a bit lower. But for all we know he could fall out of the first round entirely. Teams are pretty fickle about guys with injuries sometimes. Especially late season injuries. 

 

I think we really should just stick with the KISS method. Don't get cute. Don't try to play games trading around up and down with multiple teams. Just do what SF did: take the best player in the draft at #2 overall and be happy about it.

[dicksogj]

1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

No one is moving until they know who is picked and on the clock. Raiders not moving to 3 before we make our pick so Miami can jump them. 
 

The only one dumb enough to pull that move was Vinny trading with Denver to draft Jason Campbell the day before the draft. Then passing in Aaron Rodgers when the opportunity was there.

 

What do you mean "passing on Aaron Rodgers when the opportunity was there"?  Campbell was selected one pick after Rodgers.  If you are perhaps suggesting that the Skins should have used their early pick (# 9 on C. Rogers) or traded higher in 1st rd - well - lots of teams in that draft passed on Rodgers for players who are long gone & made minimal impact in the NFL - Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, Travis Johnson (who), David Pollack, Matt Jones, etc.  Hell the 49ers made a mistake drafting A. Smith instead of Rodgers.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  The fact of the matter is that Rodgers was not viewed as favorably pre-draft - just like other overlooked QBs like Brady, Wilson, Prescott, etc.  Cerrato made lots of terrible moves - on this one he pretty much missed like most of the NFL (even the Packers - who if they viewed him as he is today would have drafted him higher).

[SoCalSkins]

3 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

What do you mean "passing on Aaron Rodgers when the opportunity was there"?  Campbell was selected one pick after Rodgers.  If you are perhaps suggesting that the Skins should have used their early pick (# 9 on C. Rogers) or traded higher in 1st rd - well - lots of teams in that draft passed on Rodgers for players who are long gone & made minimal impact in the NFL - Mike Williams, Troy Williamson, Travis Johnson (who), David Pollack, Matt Jones, etc.  Hell the 49ers made a mistake drafting A. Smith instead of Rodgers.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.  The fact of the matter is that Rodgers was not viewed as favorably pre-draft - just like other overlooked QBs like Brady, Wilson, Prescott, etc.  Cerrato made lots of terrible moves - on this one he pretty much missed like most of the NFL (even the Packers - who if they viewed him as he is today would have drafted him higher).

We took Carlos Rogers at 9.  No one expected Aaron to be there. He was expected to be gone. Yet we locked in on Campbell the day before with the Denver trade. That’s the idiotic move Vinny made. He had a higher grade on Jason Campbell than Aaron Rodgers. Joe Gibbs isn’t without blame on that one as well...

Edited January 7, 2020 by SoCalSkins

[Idaho fan]

20 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

We took Carlos Rogers at 9.  No one expected Aaron to be there. He was expected to be gone. Yet we locked in on Campbell the day before with the Denver trade. That’s the idiotic move Vinny made. He had a higher grade on Jason Campbell than Aaron Rodgers. Joe Gibbs isn’t without blame on that one as well...

This assumes that Rodgers would have become the Aaron Rodgers we all know if the Redskins (or several other teams) took him earlier in that draft.  One could argue that Rodgers might have never had the success he had if not drafted by the packers.  Who knows but I would say that there isn't a guarantee he or Brady or Wilson (etc.) have the careers they had if not for certain circumstance.  That whole nature verses nurture argument perhaps.  

 

Perhaps in another universe Jason Campbell gets drafted by the packers and becomes the G.O.A.T.  Well ok now I'm just being silly.

[mistertim]

27 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

We took Carlos Rogers at 9.  No one expected Aaron to be there. He was expected to be gone. Yet we locked in on Campbell the day before with the Denver trade. That’s the idiotic move Vinny made. He had a higher grade on Jason Campbell than Aaron Rodgers. Joe Gibbs isn’t without blame on that one as well...

 

Well, as @dicksogjpointed out, it's not like we were the only ones who passed on Rodgers. We've had some **** people in our FO and made some **** moves in the past but there have been multiple draft steals that every team passed on multiple times. Sometimes it's just pure luck. Or sometimes I guess it can also be the snowball effect. One team passes then some others do, then suddenly the teams behind them are like "hm...everyone else is passing, wonder if they know something we don't" or whatever.

 

Add: and as @Idaho fanjust said, some of it may have had to do with the situation he landed in. The Rodgers that ended up starting during his 4th year down the road in GB was a MUCH different Rodgers than the one that came out of college. His mechanics were different, his footwork was different. He might have ended up being completely mediocre had he gone somewhere else and been thrown to the wolves immediately. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by mistertim

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, Idaho fan said:

This assumes that Rodgers would have become the Aaron Rodgers we all know if the Redskins (or several other teams) took him earlier in that draft.  One could argue that Rodgers might have never had the success he had if not drafted by the packers.  Who knows but I would say that there isn't a guarantee he or Brady or Wilson (etc.) have the careers they had if not for certain circumstance.  That whole nature verses nurture argument perhaps.  

 

Perhaps in another universe Jason Campbell gets drafted by the packers and becomes the G.O.A.T.  Well ok now I'm just being silly.

I’m a huge UCLA fan and watch most of the PAC 12 games and Rodgers was a stud at Cal for multiple seasons. He was a sure fire top 5 then started tumbling for unknown reasons. I liked him at the time. Jason had 2 first round running backs sharing the backfield and was more of a 1 year wonder but hindsight is 20/20.

[heyholetsgogrant]

13 hours ago, Drastik said:

Not trying to sound like a jerk but how did that work out for Jeff Fisher and the Rams?

 

I think the obvious play here is to take the guaranteed money (Chase). Don't give up a future top 10 overall player in the NFL for 2 or 3 Josh Doctsons...

For the record, I’m not saying I won’t be happy if we turn down a haul for Chase.  🙃
 

We are in a really good spot with options.  We probably take Chase barring he goes first...now that would be a cluster.

Edited January 8, 2020 by heyholetsgogrant

[NYSkins21]

55 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

For the record, I’m not saying I won’t be happy if we turn down a haul for Chase.  🙃
 

We are in a really good spot with options.  We probably take Chase barring he goes first...now that would be a cluster.

What do we do in a situation where Cinci has a Tice-like breakdown and turns card in too late? 😜🤯

[dicksogj]

14 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I’m a huge UCLA fan and watch most of the PAC 12 games and Rodgers was a stud at Cal for multiple seasons. He was a sure fire top 5 then started tumbling for unknown reasons. I liked him at the time. Jason had 2 first round running backs sharing the backfield and was more of a 1 year wonder but hindsight is 20/20.

 

OK - using that logic how in the world did the two teams who played in the Bay area pass on Rodgers?  The Raiders were going with Kerry Collins & would screw up years later by drafting Jamarcus Russell.  They had the pick rt before the Packers & used it on a CB that would be gone a few years later.  The 49ers selected A. Smith with the 1st overall pick.  He has certainly had a decent career but by no stretch is he anywhere close to Rodgers (even before injury).  These 2 teams had the chance to see Rodgers all of the time since Cal was rt in their backyard.

 

My only pt is that yes perhaps Vinny screwed up on this one, but he was not alone.  Pretty much the entire NFL screwed up on this one (just like they did for Brady & Wilson).  Vinny made a lot worse mistakes & ones that were not shared among other organizations & GMs.  Lets pray that we are past the pt of the bumbling FO for at least a while.

[skins island connection]

Reading some of the discussion back and forth regarding certain QBs drafted in a particular spot, you also have to keep in mind that its not only the QB but the coaching staff/players surrounding the QB drafted that really dictates whether or not a QB will flourish or wither in the NFL.

Also stability of the offense has a part in it.

 

A QB-friendly environment with a quality coaching staff can make average QBs into stars, with complimenting WR corps. Now, not every average QB will turn out to be a great pick, but the odds are much higher.

We see around the league, where a QB has a very good year, then the following year he regresses; the fans turn on him, and eventually he's benched and possibly traded. Its part of this 'win-now' league. There were times where even Brady had a less than spectacular year, but they didn't give up on him. They added pieces to compliment his strengths, then once again he lights up the league.

 

I've always thought that the best position to maintain upkeep on is the WRs. Get a good WR group who do their jobs { not just when they know they're getting the ball } like drawing attention from the secondary, run blocking support, etc, and that helps a QB very much. We've all witnessed a WR half-ass running a route, not selling it, because he knew he wasn't getting the ball. That's part of discipline that coaches need to hammer home to them.

[KillBill26]

On 1/7/2020 at 1:38 PM, mhd24 said:

The Jets "only" paid 3 2nd rounders to move up to get one of 3 QBs (Mayfield, Darnold, and Allen/Rosen).  Unless we are blown away, I think we stick at 2 and take Chase.

Pre-injury, Tua was a much bigger prospect than any of those QBs.  Mayfield wasn't even viewed as a 1st rounder until late in his last college season.  Tua has been getting hype since he relieved hurts in the Natty, and "tank for tua" was a theme for 2019 for good reason.  IF, and it's a huge if, the medical reports come back promising predraft, then I'd expect the trade offers to be richer than anything you could've expected to net for any of the 2018 QBs.

[kingdaddy]

On 1/7/2020 at 4:36 PM, Idaho fan said:

This assumes that Rodgers would have become the Aaron Rodgers we all know if the Redskins (or several other teams) took him earlier in that draft.  One could argue that Rodgers might have never had the success he had if not drafted by the packers.  Who knows but I would say that there isn't a guarantee he or Brady or Wilson (etc.) have the careers they had if not for certain circumstance.  That whole nature verses nurture argument perhaps.  

 

Perhaps in another universe Jason Campbell gets drafted by the packers and becomes the G.O.A.T.  Well ok now I'm just being silly.

good point....Rodgers sat behind Favre, had Mike Holmgren and was brought up right. That had to help his career. What if Alex Smith took the same path Rodgers did????

[kingdaddy]

23 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Pre-injury, Tua was a much bigger prospect than any of those QBs.  Mayfield wasn't even viewed as a 1st rounder until late in his last college season.  Tua has been getting hype since he relieved hurts in the Natty, and "tank for tua" was a theme for 2019 for good reason.  IF, and it's a huge if, the medical reports come back promising predraft, then I'd expect the trade offers to be richer than anything you could've expected to net for any of the 2018 QBs.

Yep....I believe some teams will overpay to get someone they fall in love with. If Tua is given a clean bill of health, blows away teams in the interviews and Wonderlic test, he could shoot to the top right next to Burrow. This is gonna be tremendous theater. One thing I havent seen asked on this site, what if Rivera and company fall in love with Tua and aren't enamored with Haskins? That can't be ruled out. Haskins is not RR's guy and RR is running the show now. 

[skinsmania123]

22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Yep....I believe some teams will overpay to get someone they fall in love with. If Tua is given a clean bill of health, blows away teams in the interviews and Wonderlic test, he could shoot to the top right next to Burrow. This is gonna be tremendous theater. One thing I havent seen asked on this site, what if Rivera and company fall in love with Tua and aren't enamored with Haskins? That can't be ruled out. Haskins is not RR's guy and RR is running the show now. 

What I am banking on is RR's predilection for Defense so he does not pass up on the BPA, and a guy, who for years to come will elevate our D line.  

 

Going for Tua, would be just like the Redskins way picking up players with injury histories.   I say lets stop that trend in its tracks with this new regime.

 

I think we have to give Haskins a legitimate shot at being the guy.  He was a very high pick. He improved from what I could see the more he played. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by skinsmania123

[kingdaddy]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

What I am banking on is RR's predilection for Defense so he does not pass up on the BPA, and a guy, who for years to come will elevate our D line.  

 

Going for Tua, would be just like the Redskins way picking up players with injury histories.   I say lets stop that trend in its tracks with this new regime.

 

I think we have to give Haskins a legitimate shot at being the guy.  He was a very high pick. He improved from what I could see the more he played. 

I don't disagree, but as a new coach, if you are not sold on DH as your franchise QB then the time to move on could be now. I think as fans we need to start considering that anything is possible until RR verbally commits to DH....Again, DH is not RR's guy and maybe he'll want someone who's more polished and ready to win? Who knows right now?

[757SeanTaylor21]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I don't disagree, but as a new coach, if you are not sold on DH as your franchise QB then the time to move on could be now. I think as fans we need to start considering that anything is possible until RR verbally commits to DH....Again, DH is not RR's guy and maybe he'll want someone who's more polished and ready to win? Who knows right now?

Do you think Dan would of hired RR if dwayne wasnf his guy? Especially being that its widely known it was Dan's pick 

[kingdaddy]

Just now, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Do you think Dan would of hired RR if dwayne wasnf his guy? Especially being that its widely known it was Dan's pick 

Yes. I think RR is in charge and Dan is desperate for success. Doesn't mean DH will be traded but it doesn't mean he will be given the job next season. I don't think RR takes the job if there are conditions where DH has to be the starter. No way.