Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[KDawg]

Just now, skinzplay said:

Agree with you wholeheartedly on this, @KDawg. And I think the defensive unit will be infinitely better because of Del Rio and Rivera. You've convinced me on Simmons, too.

 

I love Simmons as a prospect... And as with all things prospect related, I could be wrong. It's really easy to be. 

 

But we see "generational" Edge guys every other season. When was the last time we saw a "generational" OLB in the draft?

 

Having said that, Chase Young is an absolute animal and I would argue he's probably more of a sure thing based on DE responsibilities in a 4-3 vs. OLB responsibilities across schemes being different. 

 

But Simmons as a prospect just brings so much versatility to the table. 

 

I won't be mad with Chase Young. He'll be tremendous. I just wouldn't be mad if Chase Young was selected before us and we had to "settle" with Isaiah Simmons

[skinzplay]

Like you alluded to in your previous post, we need to be sure that we maximize the talents of these players by properly utilizing their skillsets. Kerrigan, Sweat (or P. Smith before them) dropping back in coverage always made me do one of those slow head shakes from side to side.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think Cincy is taking Burrow, lets hope he has a big game tonight.  The Urban Meyer comment about Chase being a generational talent got my attention, 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-biggest-question-looming-over-the-nfl-draft-which-joe-is-the-true-superstar-230741051.html

NEW ORLEANS — The question prompted a long belly laugh from Urban Meyer, followed by an artful dodge. He recruited both of the projected No. 1 and No. 2 picks in the upcoming NFL draft — LSU star quarterback Joe Burrow, who transferred from Ohio State, and Buckeye defensive end Chase Young.

So when asked who he’d take first if he were the Cincinnati Bengals general manager choosing first in the upcoming draft, Meyer chuckled and ducked. “That’s going to be a story somewhere,” he said.

It will certainly be in Cincinnati, where the Bengals have the No. 1 pick and appear to need a quarterback after Andy Dalton spiraled to the bench this season. The Bengals franchise is generally viewed as one of the worst run in the NFL, and a star quarterback offers hope to even the most forlorn NFL franchises. 

For the Bengals, the decision on Burrow hinges on one of the most compelling riddles looming over the NFL draft: Which Joe deserves the credit? Has Joe Burrow’s historic Heisman Trophy-winning senior season been because of first-year pass-game coordinator Joe Brady? Or has Brady’s rise from unknown 30-year-old pass-game coordinator to one of the most coveted coaches in football been because of Burrow?

Perhaps most important for the Bengals will be this: Is Burrow’s rise so inextricably linked with Brady that there’s worry he won’t be able to replicate his success?

“I can’t answer that question,” Meyer said by phone this week. “For me to answer in detail, you’d have to give me time to study it. That’s the job of the Bengals, and it’s hard because the guy behind him is a generational player in Chase Young.”

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Sonny9TD]

If the Redskins want to start winning they need to get the QB from LSU and just trade Haskins. Mahomes is the best QB in the league and you have to have someone somewhere close to that talent. Haskins will never be anywhere close. You have to have a QB that can take over a game and Haskins is not it. Sorry. Not going to happen. We need to move up one position and get Burrow. Just get it done.  The Bengals will be happy with Chase. Trade Haskins to the Bengals and what ever else you have to do to get Burrow and let's turn this thing around. We need Burrow in the very worst way. Trade Haskins get Burrow. For the love of the game. Watch him tonight against Clemson then make up your mind. I already know.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Sonny9TD said:

Mahomes is the best QB in the league and you have to have someone somewhere close to that talent. 

 

I disagree with this statement.

 

Ryan Tannehill turned the Titans season around and helped them get to the AFC Championship game.

 

He is no where near Mahomes level of talent.

 

Jimmy G has been the Niners quarterback this season. Statstically and leadership wise, he is no where near Mahomes level of talent.

 

What you need is someone that fits the system they are being asked to be a part of and the personnel structure of the team. 

 

I'm also curious to see how much of the cap % Mahomes is going to account for when his rookie deal is up, and if he goes for the Kirk Cousins model or the Tom Brady model in how much money he wants. If he goes for the ultimate pay day, a lot of his weapons will disappear. He's good, no doubt. But his supporting cast wouldn't be anywhere near the same level as it is now. 

 

Will be fun to watch unfold

 

RE: Haskins - I don't think the guy has to turn into some stat monster. I'd prefer he was a good QB that doesn't demand more than 10-12% of the team's cap in his second deal. I think that's one way to win nowadays. Of course, the other is to have a quarterback who may be paid a lot but is just flat out better than everyone else. Russell Wilson is kind of that guy right now, but we saw what happens when his support cast is limited, too. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by KDawg

[Sonny9TD]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I disagree with this statement.

 

Ryan Tannehill turned the Titans season around and helped them get to the AFC Championship game.

 

He is no where near Mahomes level of talent.

 

Jimmy G has been the Niners quarterback this season. Statstically and leadership wise, he is no where near Mahomes level of talent.

 

What you need is someone that fits the system they are being asked to be a part of and the personnel structure of the team. 

 

I'm also curious to see how much of the cap % Mahomes is going to account for when his rookie deal is up, and if he goes for the Kirk Cousins model or the Tom Brady model in how much money he wants. If he goes for the ultimate pay day, a lot of his weapons will disappear. He's good, no doubt. But his supporting cast wouldn't be anywhere near the same level as it is now. 

 

Will be fun to watch unfold

 

RE: Haskins - I don't think the guy has to turn into some stat monster. I'd prefer he was a good QB that doesn't demand more than 10-12% of the team's cap in his second deal. I think that's one way to win nowadays. Of course, the other is to have a quarterback who may be paid a lot but is just flat out better than everyone else. Russell Wilson is kind of that guy right now, but we saw what happens when his support cast is limited, too. 

I understand what you're saying. But if the Titans running game isn't working Tannehill means nothing. Garrapolo is better than than Tannehill and with a defense like the 49ers who give Garrapolo the ball with serious possession time with his talent you can see why that works. Rodgers is the other QB in this mix and nothing needs to be said about that so yea I think you need a really good QB that can get it done with no running game or defense that gives you the ball with mucho chances to score. Your point is valid if the running game is stacked or the defense is off the charts. To put points on the board when you don't have this you need an elite QB and taking Burrow over Haskins is just a better way to go. It just is. Tannehill isn't going to the Super Bowl. Rodgers gives Green Bay a chance at any time. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Sonny9TD

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Sonny9TD said:

I understand what you're saying. But if the Titans running game isn't working Tannehill means nothing. Garrapolo is better than than Tannehill and with a defense like the 49ers who give Garrapolo the ball with serious possession time with his talent you can see why that works. Rodgers is the other QB in this mix and nothing needs to be said about that so yea I think you need a really good QB that can get it done with no running game or defense that gives you the ball with mucho chances to score. Your point is valid if the running game is stacked or the defense is off the charts. To put points on the board when you don't have this you need an elite QB.  

 

I kinda enjoy this conversation. But I think it always leaves out the whole cost model.

 

Aaron Rodgers is paid a metric **** ton. His team is still pretty good around him. He's an outlier. He sees defenses pre-snap and adjusts protections well. His team now leans on a running game, but when his number is called he makes the most of it. Not a stat monster, but a VERY smart quarterback. 

 

Kirk Cousins is paid a metric **** ton. His team is pretty good around him... except for his protection. He's paid entirely too much for what he is. Doesn't read defenses all that well pre-snap.

 

Derek Carr is Cousins Lite. With less surrounding talent. His contract is even more of an albatross on the Raiders.

 

Tannehill is the least talented QB remaining, his contract is beyond modest, there is a team build around him (And Mariota, obviously, as he was the starter). And they are where they are.

 

Mahomes is probably the most physically talented of the quarterbacks remaining, and on a rookie deal. Will Mahomes be able to win ala Aaron Rodgers if he takes a large % of his team's cap? Remains to be seen.

 

I think its easier to build a team around a modest QB than it is to find a stud QB, pay them, and be successful.

 

But, I don't discount that having a stud QB can entirely turn your fortunes. As with all things, there's more than one way to skin a cat

Edited January 13, 2020 by KDawg

[Sonny9TD]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I kinda enjoy this conversation. But I think it always leaves out the whole cost model.

 

Aaron Rodgers is paid a metric **** ton. His team is still pretty good around him. He's an outlier.

 

Kirk Cousins is paid a metric **** ton. His team is pretty good around him... except for his protection. He's paid entirely too much for what he is.

 

Tannehill is the least talented QB remaining, his contract is beyond modest, there is a team build around him (And Mariota, obviously, as he was the starter). And they are where they are.

 

Mahomes is probably the most physically talented of the quarterbacks remaining, and on a rookie deal. Will Mahomes be able to win ala Aaron Rodgers if he takes a large % of is team's cap? Remains to be seen.

 

I think its easier to build a team around a modest QB than it is to find a stud QB, pay them, and be successful.

 

But, I don't discount that having a stud QB can entirely turn your fortunes. As with all things, there's more than one way to skin a cat

 

Totally agree except i don't see it happening with Haskins. Burrow will be on the rookie contract so friendly as well.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Sonny9TD

[HTTRDynasty]

Just thinking out loud... when is the last time we had the chance to select the consensus #1 overall player in the draft?  I honestly can’t remember. 

[Sonny9TD]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Just thinking out loud... when is the last time we had the chance to select the consensus #1 overall player in the draft?  I honestly can’t remember. 

I guess that depends who the consensus is. Mahomes for example wasn't that person but would be thought of that way now. And since position played matters consensus is vague. So is Young better than Burrow? For example

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Just thinking out loud... when is the last time we had the chance to select the consensus #1 overall player in the draft?  I honestly can’t remember. 

Closest would probably be lavar Arrington I guess.

Him and courtney brown were kind of a toss up, sorta like burrow and young this year except they play on opposite sides of the ball and burrow may be propped up a little by his position. 

 

I think most considered Arrington to be the best pure athlete and football player in that draft.

Edited January 13, 2020 by redskinss

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, Sonny9TD said:

I guess that depends who the consensus is. Mahomes for example wasn't that person but would be thought of that way now. And since position played matters consensus is vague. So is Young better than Burrow? For example

I mean as prospects, so before the draft. 
 

Young is the #1 ranked player on nearly every draft analyst’s big board. 

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Just thinking out loud... when is the last time we had the chance to select the consensus #1 overall player in the draft?  I honestly can’t remember. 

 

Didnt we have a chance for a RB years ago that we traded out of for all the picks in the world and did literally nothing with? Wasnt that when Casserly was in charge? I dont remember. This was before I was a fan of football at all I think 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Llevron

[Riggo'sRangers]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Didnt we have a chance for a RB years ago that we traded out of for all the picks in the world and did literally nothing with? Wasnt that when Casserly was in charge? I dont remember. This was before I was a fan of football at all I think 

Ricky Williams. Traded the pick to the Saints. Samuels & Arrington came from that trade so definitely not "nothing". Good trade. Hail

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Closest would probably be lavar Arrington I guess.

Him and courtney brown were kind of a toss up, sorta like burrow and young this year except they play on opposite sides of the ball and burrow may be propped up a little by his position. 

 

I think most considered Arrington to be the best pure athlete and football player in that draft.

 
The fact that Courtney Brown wasn’t a QB, yet was still selected ahead of Arrington, makes me think Arrington wasn’t the consensus best player. But maybe. That was before I started following the draft. 

 

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Didnt we have a chance for a RB years ago that we traded out of for all the picks in the world and did literally nothing with? Wasnt that when Casserly was in charge? I dont remember. This was before I was a fan of football at all I think 

Yeah, that would have been in the time before I started closely following the draft. 

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Ricky Williams. Traded the pick to the Saints. Samuels & Arrington came from that trade so definitely not "nothing". Good trade. Hail

 

Yea thats it. I never knew they came from that draft. Thanks for the info! 

[Riggo'sRangers]

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Riggo'sRangers

[redskinss]

12 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

The fact that Courtney Brown wasn’t a QB, yet was still selected ahead of Arrington, makes me think Arrington wasn’t the consensus best player. But maybe. That was before I started following the draft. 

True, and we were having similar arguments about that year too.

If I recall correctly most wanted Arrington but didn't care which one fell to us.

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Ricky Williams. Traded the pick to the Saints. Samuels & Arrington came from that trade so definitely not "nothing". Good trade. Hail

Along with fleecing Carolina our of two number 1s for Sean Gilbert.

 

We were NFC East champs. Had ton of cap space and numerous picks. The possibilities if JKC had left the team to his son...

[Riggo'sRangers]

Actually it was Champ Bailey & Arrington we got from the RW trade, I was wrong. Ditka traded every pick they had in the draft for the 5th pick. Voted second worst trade ever only behind the Herschel Walker trade. We still somewhat botched it especially considering the Sean Gilbert trade. It was HARD to screw that up, but we did. Yeesh...bad memories. Hail

[SoCalSkins]

4 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Actually it was Champ Bailey & Arrington we got from the RW trade, I was wrong. Ditka traded every pick they had in the draft for the 5th pick. Voted second worst trade ever only behind the Herschel Walker trade. We still somewhat botched it especially considering the Sean Gilbert trade. It was HARD to screw that up, but we did. Yeesh...bad memories. Hail

Technically Sean Gilbert signed as a free agent franchise player and we got the two 1s. We had a decent QB in Trent green we couldn’t sign because the estate of JKC wouldn’t let us make large financial commitments. It was bizarro world and we emerged with Dan leading the way after the NFL rejected his original partner Milstein. Weird times.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I'm also curious to see how much of the cap % Mahomes is going to account for when his rookie deal is up, and if he goes for the Kirk Cousins model or the Tom Brady model in how much money he wants. If he goes for the ultimate pay day, a lot of his weapons will disappear. He's good, no doubt. But his supporting cast wouldn't be anywhere near the same level as it is now. 

 

The Tom Brady model is a unicorn, no other examples, just him.  So I don't think there is a Brady model until anyone else follows suit.  As for Mahomes there is talk he could be in the 35-40 million range.  Will see. 

41 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 
The fact that Courtney Brown wasn’t a QB, yet was still selected ahead of Arrington, makes me think Arrington wasn’t the consensus best player. But maybe. That was before I started following the draft. 

 

 

I recall the period, there were some who thought Brown was better, it wasn't much of a shock as the draft process got closer. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Tom Brady model is a unicorn, no other examples, just him.  So I don't think there is a Brady model until anyone else follows suit.  As for Mahomes there is talk he could be in the 35-40 million range.  Will see. 

 

So, I agree. Brady is a unicorn... But that doesn't mean he should be. 

 

I think quarterbacks would be smart to take a little less to build a little more. You can have a GIANT nestegg at, say, 12% versus needing 20%.

 

Mahomes is smart. By the time he's free the cap will be up. 

 

I think he'd be worth every penny of 15% give or take a few percentage points. Any higher, though, and you limit your ability to succeed... Unless he is exactly what we think he is even without weapons. 

 

It's really fun to watch.

 

You can't blame any of these guys for taking the cash and running. 

 

But I think you could make more money long term if you allow others to make some extra cash on your team, boost morale, and put up gaudy numbers for the entire length of your career.

 

Though I suppose if you can do it without paying a supporting cast you'd make even more. But at the numbers these guys are bringing in on a yearly basis, how much more do you need to set up your family for years to come? (I guess that changes based on your bracket and your expenses for sure... But still...)

 

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Just thinking out loud... when is the last time we had the chance to select the consensus #1 overall player in the draft?  I honestly can’t remember. 

 

I can't think of an example either.  I've been making somewhat that point on the draft thread for awhile.  Taking the most hyped and considered by most best player in the draft is a novel experience and doesn't fit the been there done that category.

 

Heck we have much more experience passing up on players and trading down.  We traded down and passed over JJ Watt.  We traded down with the Cowboys of all teams in the 2nd so they could select D. Lawrence and we got Trent Murphy.  We traded down with Seattle so they can take Lockett.  

 

I admit I was cool with the trade downs at the moment but they didn't exactly work out in our favor.