Disciplined, commitment to the run football back in DC and it works! Who knew?

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

 

You want to replace Bruce with Joel Klatt? I mean...I guess I am down...at least he wants to draft Chase Young!  🤪

 

Good one.  But to play along yeah I'd take Klatt over Bruce at least he knows something about college football.  Any football guy in any form over a politician to run the FO. 😀

 

And to double down on my other point

 

 

 

 

 

[dballer]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Good one.  But to play along yeah I'd take Klatt over Bruce at least he knows something about college football.  Any football guy in any form over a politician to run the FO. 😀

 

And to double down on my other point

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I was only sort of jesting...and Chase Young is absolutely who I think we should draft. Partly why I am pulling for Haskins to show some signs of a chance at being the future QB. But, Burrow may be hard to pass up if Haskins doesn't start looking better. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

Oh I was only sort of jesting...and Chase Young is absolutely who I think we should draft. Partly why I am pulling for Haskins to show some signs of a chance at being the future QB. But, Burrow may be hard to pass up if Haskins doesn't start looking better. 

 

Burrow isn't going to be on the board.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

Oh I was only sort of jesting...and Chase Young is absolutely who I think we should draft. Partly why I am pulling for Haskins to show some signs of a chance at being the future QB. But, Burrow may be hard to pass up if Haskins doesn't start looking better. 

 

LOL, I know you were joking.  But heck I am not joking, Klatt wouldn't be my guy as GM obviously but I'd genuinely take him over Bruce.  He at least knows college football and comes off like a really nice dude, I've watched him on ESPN plenty.  😀

 

As for Haskins as the draft approached last year, I became down on him after studying him closely, I actively lobbied against them drafting him on draft day.  But I want to see the full season before landing on a verdict.  If I buy into what some beat guys have said Haskins is here to stay next year no matter what because both Dan and Bruce were infatuated with him so they are unlikely going to throw in the towel that quick especially if it was them versus some scouts in the building on the prospect as most purport. 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Burrow isn't going to be on the board.

 

That's probably true. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

.....

 

Appreciated but it's not your's (or anyone else for that matter), issue Coach. I stand up for what I believe in and handle my own battles. 

 

I trust that will be the end of it with the person concerned. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Appreciated but it's not your's (or anyone else for that matter), issue Coach. I stand up for what I believe in and handle my own battles. 

 

I trust that will be the end of it with the person concerned. 

 

Hail. 

 

I mean...

 

I want to know what that guy knows about the game. Not white knighting you. Guy obviously knows football and I could benefit from a conversation with him, no?

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

I know our line is not great, but is it really that bad talent wise, or...is there a major coaching problem? I keep hearing what an O-line guru Callahan is, AIN'T SEEING IT!!! 

[dballer]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Burrow isn't going to be on the board.

Can’t be sure we still don’t end up with the #1 pick... 

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, THE HAMMER'IN HOG said:

I know our line is not great, but is it really that bad talent wise, or...is there a major coaching problem? I keep hearing what an O-line guru Callahan is, AIN'T SEEING IT!!! 

 

This has been my issue for several years. Callahan supposedly owned the run game the entire time Jay was here. He definitely owned the Oline and we have not been a good running team since MS left (I am not a MS fan but fair enough, he does know how to get a running game going on). 

 

It appears there was a little bump in effort from the players once Jay was fired - especially on Defense. But they have come off that shot of energy and are now playing even worse than before. So I think we can safely say the Callahan honeymoon is officially over. 

 

Yesterday's game was a showcase for incompetence and lacking desire or taking ownership for your own job. You had maybe a handful of guys who cared and the rest looked like they could care less. It is clear the coaches didn't even try. What a joke. 

 

My hope is they clean house completely. Anyone retained has to go through the interview process and earn their job back. Most should not. But this is something Dan does not like, to do. He likes to either keep a mole or two from the previous staff or insert someone or someones into the staff without the HC having and say. 

 

I expect the worst. B Allen be retained. About half the staff stays on and we get some new HC that will be as neutered as Jay. This will all lead to even more pathetic losing. 

[Koolblue13]

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Thank God we had that practice last Wednesday or things really could have gotten out of hand.

 

I was listening to the Redskins Talk podcast last night, and they made a decent point. You can pull the old school Bill Callahan discipline and hard practices and it's 1972 bs if you have a three year contract with the team and you start with off-season workouts and carry it through training camp. The players may think you're a fossil, but at least they have to accept this as reality.

 

When you come in at Week 6 and every knows that you are gone in twelve weeks, they aren't going to respond to this.

 

To put my own spin on it, Bill Callahan is your mom's new boyfriend who suddenly wants to enforce a bed time and force you to eat your vegetables. You know that you just have to put up with this asshole for a few weeks and mom will start dating roadies and carnival workers again.

 

 

PS

 

I don't post for a few days and you jags lose your minds. Everyone thinks it's easy to do what I do. To quote Jack Nicholson in The Departed, "The only one that can do what I do is me." You want to play the race card while also acting above the fray while simultaneously making fun of three people at once? It's harder than it looks, kids.

[Koolblue13]

You're a ****ing gem Lkb

[Sticksboi05]

Just as a reminder, this was always a laughable proposition. It's okay, BILL HAS STOPPED MUSIC AT PRACTICES AND NOW WE ARE DISCIPLINED!! 

 

In the time he's taken over we have been: 1. shutout at home. 2. gone on the longest TD-less drought in the NFL since the start of the Dubya presidency and 3. got absolutely demolished by a 2-7 Jets team that has been outscored by 100 points this season. The Jets average 231 yards of offense PER GAME. IN 2019 when the NFL is desperate to remove defense. Let that sink in. We were down 34-3 and they called off the dogs.

 

At this point if you still pull the "I will still go to every game blah blah yada yada" you're a sycophant.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm just going to travel back in time to 2001 when Marty was doing a different style and players didn't immediately buy in. Wasn't there a similar problem with backtalk and grumbling about tough practices. Then things turned around after the Lavar pick. 

 

Its not saying that Cal is going to be the guy to turn this around but the difficulty of going from an easygoing coach to a difficult one is really hard (from what I hear) I compare it to being an easygoing parent then trying to instill discipline in your kids through strict standards. Its not easy because - they're used to the environment being one way, and- they're used to you treating them one way. So when this changes it takes time for them to understand that this is the new normal. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm just going to travel back in time to 2001 when Marty was doing a different style and players didn't immediately buy in. Wasn't there a similar problem with backtalk and grumbling about tough practices. Then things turned around after the Lavar pick. 

 

Its not saying that Cal is going to be the guy to turn this around but the difficulty of going from an easygoing coach to a difficult one is really hard (from what I hear) I compare it to being an easygoing parent then trying to instill discipline in your kids through strict standards. Its not easy because - they're used to the environment being one way, and- they're used to you treating them one way. So when this changes it takes time for them to understand that this is the new normal. 

 

 

 

I think players have either a winning mindset or not.  This isn't a new fangled 2019 drill with players, same thing happened last time in 2018 but in a different context. 

 

Some legends like Bill Walsh weren't known for hard practices and some legends like Parcells were. You got all types and all styles have won.   Some players have talked about this (guys like Strahan, etc) that the good teams had really good locker rooms with players who were accountable to each other.  they had the right chemistry-leadership, etc.

 

I think a dude like Peterson plays hard no matter what the context.  We need IMO more guys like that.  I noticed Landon Collins yesterday flying around everywhere -- he looked like another dude who is self-motivated.  Back when our defense wasn't half bad -- London Fletcher seemed to be a monster level leader. 

 

I do think we got some good guys on that front but reading that story makes me think we need more of them than we have now. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think players have either a winning mindset or not.  This isn't a new fangled 2019 drill with players, same thing happened last time in 2018 but in a different context. 

 

Some legends like Bill Walsh weren't known for hard practices and some legends like Parcells were. You got all types and all styles have won.   Some players have talked about this (guys like Strahan, etc) that the good teams had really good locker rooms with players who were accountable to each other.  they had the right chemistry-leadership, etc.

 

I think a dude like Peterson plays hard no matter what the context.  We need IMO more guys like that.  I noticed Landon Collins yesterday flying around everywhere -- he looked like another dude who is self-motivated.  Back when our defense wasn't half bad -- London Fletcher seemed to be a monster level leader. 

 

I do think we got some good guys on that front but reading that story makes me think we need more of them than we have now. 

So I agree with all of this, especially needing more players that are self motivated and “winners.”

 

However I will add that the current environment, dare I say culture, is really not conducive for being motivated to do anything except for the bare minimum to get to the off season at the moment.

 

Here’s what I mean:

- The chances of Callahan coming back are extremely low, and the players know this. This immediately reduces his authority.

 

- The overly conservative, extremely boring style of football Callahan is trying to implement probably gets some juices flowing for the OL and AP.  But that’s about it.  It’s tough to get excited about this style, at least on offense. Also, when the players look around the league, and see what other teams are doing or trying to do, they might just toss their hands up and say, “whatever.”  If players aren’t bought in, they will not give maximum effort.  That’s human nature.  

 

- A lot of players are just going to tune out at the end of a bad season and wait and see what happens.  They really have no interest in playing for or practicing for a coach they know isn’t going to be here in a style which a lot of them probably just don’t care about.  

 

So while I agree that we need more self motivated players, getting motivated to execute a game plan you might not be excited about for a coach who’s not going to be here with a 1-8 record is a tall order. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So I agree with all of this, especially needing more players that are self motivated and “winners.”

 

However I will add that the current environment, dare I say culture, is really not conducive for being motivated to do anything except for the bare minimum to get to the off season at the moment.

 

Here’s what I mean:

- The chances of Callahan coming back are extremely low, and the players know this. This immediately reduces his authority.

 

- The overly conservative, extremely boring style of football Callahan is trying to implement probably gets some juices flowing for the OL and AP.  But that’s about it.  It’s tough to get excited about this style, at least on offense. Also, when the players look around the league, and see what other teams are doing or trying to do, they might just toss their hands up and say, “whatever.”  If players aren’t bought in, they will not give maximum effort.  That’s human nature.  

 

- A lot of players are just going to tune out at the end of a bad season and wait and see what happens.  They really have no interest in playing for or practicing for a coach they know isn’t going to be here in a style which a lot of them probably just don’t care about.  

 

So while I agree that we need more self motivated players, getting motivated to execute a game plan you might not be excited about for a coach who’s not going to be here with a 1-8 record is a tall order. 

 

 

 

I get the point and somewhat agree but some coaches like to say when you are in the middle of a lost season you want to see who are your gamers and who aren't.  Landon Collins for example was hard to miss at least to my naked eye watching the game.  When I have a chance I'll rewatch the game via coaches tape and maybe my mind changes about him and others.  Collins looked like a missile out there and was playing with oomph.   He stood out to me over some others who didn't seem to be at their best. 

 

Part of the reason why I loved Guice at LSU was watching some of his college games he was a fun watch on the sideline let alone in the game.  It was hard to miss how boisterous he was and how he was trying to rally his teammates.  He played with oomph on and off the field (sideline).  Watching him in practice in camp, he was the same way.  And the fact that he would take 30-45 minutes to interact with fans after just about every practice I found impressive.  Seemed like a good dude with the right attitude as opposed to someone who just does the minimum. 

 

I agree that jazzing up the style of offense or defense might bring more excitement out of guys who might need to be sparked like that.  But I do think the best players and ones who are improvement fanatics are more likely to be that way organically.   You read about Peterson the dude works like a maniac on his own let alone in practice.

 

So I guess what am saying is I somewhat agree with your point but I'd put those players who need a coaching style to provide their spark in a tier below -- I doubt they are Adrian Peterson types.   Not that I think there are hard rules on something like this -- there are all types of personalities who are moved in their own ways -- but I am making a guess based on how most operate.    Part of it is my own experiences in my own jobs -- the people that I know who go the extra mile tend to do it regardless of context and how their boss is.  And the ones who don't do so just seem to consistently not reach their potential. 

 

It seems to be a somewhat ingrained attribute from my experience.  External motivation factors come and go but internal factors are a different story. 

 

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

That's incredibly damning of the lack of professionalism on the roster in so many facets V_o_R.

 

And an insult from them to every last Redskin fan out there. 

 

You're handsomely rewarded to do a job and give everything you have doing it. Just like in any walk of life where the vast majority of people aren't fortunate enough to do their life's love for a career. And often aren't happy in the job they're in. But you still do everything that's asked of you and motivate yourself to be the best you can be. Or else your liable to not be in that employment for too long. 

 

It shouldn't matter what the record is/ status of the coaches going forward/ style of play et al. It's a, in reality, minuscule 16 game season, If you can't give everything you have and that's asked of you through that, at a bare minimum, for your own personal pride if nothing else; then you're a disgrace to your craft and a poor excuse for the job description 'professional' football player. 

 

Sadly, the culture here has allowed that kind of lax attitude to foster for far too long where it has become the norm. 

 

Trying to change that and get these players out of a half-arsed habit that's inground in many of them, as exemplified by the disgrace from the majority yesterday, is one of the biggest issues facing anyone charged with being the HC here. Be it a short term interim or anything longer. 

 

Players like AP who both understand their part of the bargain regardless of any situation they find themselves in, along with the driven need to strive to improve on a daily basis, even at the back-end of his career, are a sad rarity through this roster. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

A lot of athletes are emotionally charged guys. The season's tempo will absolutely change how a player plays. You can feign anger at them for not getting all the breaks on a loser team, but nobody wants to credit that attitude when the balls are bouncing towards them and they're winning. 

 

Going into battle being led by a loser is pretty demotivating. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I hate the Effort Police. Again, this is Doc Walker-level football analysis.

 

"They lost, because they didn't play hard."

 

I've been watching football every weekend since 1980. I can think of five or six times where I've seen a guy and thought, "Well, he's not trying."

 

I never understood the whole "Camp Gruden" thing, because in his time here, I thought it was pretty amazing that he never seemed to lose the team in any meaningful sense. It always seemed like the team respected him and played hard for him. Even if the game plans or whatever sucked. I don't care that he got fired mid-season but I never thought he was the main problem. And I never thought this Callahan "Pass out the salt tablets" approach to football was going to work.

 

Because the issue was never discipline or effort or any other vague words in the first place.

 

Our defense stinks because our secondary and linebackers stink.

 

Our offense stinks because we have no QB, 1 playmaker, and a line that's shaky on its best day. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@Lombardi's_kid_brother

I couldn't agree more.  I don't think there is anything more overblown in fandom than effort.  As if it's something they can see from their televisions.  Naturally, any players 'GAF' level will vary throughout a season dependent on numerous factors, but it's a rarity that you can literally see a player packing it in.  As if they don't know that the tape is their resume.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In the modern NFL, only superstars get a second contract. Half of rosters are always guys on rookie deals.

 

Because of that, everyone is pretty much playing their ass off all the time. Because teams are looking to replace you with a street free agent in order to save $75K against the cap.

[skinny21]

The idea of effort may well be overblown (and it’s certainly a primary  reason we are losing so spectacularly), but it’s definitely a thing.  It’s hard to pick up on for sure, but hustle shows up on tape.  For me personally, it’s most apparent with backside defenders chasing down runs away from them.  It’s not walking vs running, but jogging vs running, or running vs sprinting.  That extra bit of effort, not an outright laziness.  There are also certain positions you see it from more often than others.  
With all of that said, I honestly don’t know if certain ‘Skins players are not hustling as much as they should - as I said, it’s usually subtle - I’d need to re-watch games... and I’m not very motivated to do that.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

The idea of effort may well be overblown (and it’s certainly a primary  reason we are losing so spectacularly), but it’s definitely a thing.  It’s hard to pick up on for sure, but hustle shows up on tape.  For me personally, it’s most apparent with backside defenders chasing down runs away from them.  It’s not walking vs running, but jogging vs running, or running vs sprinting.  That extra bit of effort, not an outright laziness.  There are also certain positions you see it from more often than others.  
With all of that said, I honestly don’t know if certain ‘Skins players are not hustling as much as they should - as I said, it’s usually subtle - I’d need to re-watch games... and I’m not very motivated to do that.

I'm not saying effort doesn't vary from player to player.  Of course it does, that's natural and part of what makes a player who they are.  We've seen examples of effort guys here who probably don't play at this level if not for their effort.

 

That said, I don't think that's something that pro players develop via coaching.  They are either high effort players or they are not.  And for those who say if a guy isn't giving high effort 100% of the time, you bench him...sure, when there is somebody remotely viable behind them, that's an option.  That isn't always an option.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Lombardi's_kid_brother I think the single most important part of a coaches job is preparation.  That means technique and scheme.  

 

What players have commented on regarding “camp jay” is that there just wasn’t enough work in the right types of situations (contact/pads) to get either offense or defense enough reps so they were appropriately prepared going into the season, so the first few weeks of the season is really the first time the team really gets work together, and it typically took a few weeks to get the team “on the same page.”

 

I agree with you that I don’t think Jay lost the team and the team played hard for him.  And I don’t think that effort was ever a problem for Jay.  There were other problems, but it wasn’t effort. 

 

@Gibbs Hog Heaven I do think it’s just human nature to play/work harder for leaders who you respect and for a direction you’re bought into.  

 

So if the team doesn’t really believe in Callahan or his program, they are just not, in general, going to put in the same amount of effort as they would for somebody they do respect.  This is just life.  

 

Every single survey on what the most important factor of job satisfaction is rates the relationship with your direct manager as the number one factor of job satisfaction.  Compensation is typically second or third.  

 

So while the players are highly compensated, they are also human, and further they are young men.  It’s just human nature to check out s bit when you’re not bought in. 

 

You’re going to get a few folks who are entirely self motivated, or have personal reasons to prove something regardless of the situation. The more of those guys you have the better.

 

However you’re going to have guys who’s effort is tied to the situation.  They will try harder if they are in the right situation, less hard if the situation is less good.  

 

I absolutely don’t think motivation comes from ra-ra speeches, or that kind of thing. Motivation at the nfl level is more based on preparation, knowing the plan will work, and trusting the team to execute the plan and win.  If players just don’t believe, this effects commitment, practice and preparation effort, and at times game day effort, though that is typically the last thing to go.