FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

And yes like I said I chalk that up to other factors than football as DGF and I said earlier. 

 

Ah right. Keep fighting the good fight then. Stop (radio, where you cant see people) racism one QB at a time. ✊

[Conn]

I just need a couple people here to admit that they can at least consider the idea that along with Turner being bad so far, Haskins has also, simultaneously, not been as good a prospect as they thought. It would give a lot of credibility. 

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I just need a couple people here to admit that they can at least consider the idea that along with Turner being bad so far, Haskins has also, simultaneously, not been as good a prospect as they thought. It would give a lot of credibility. 

 

You should @ them cause its really easy to think you are talking about someone not named "me" if I wanted to be defensive about it. 

 

Incase you are asking about me me. I reserve the possibility that im 100% wrong as **** and everyone I think is good sucks and everyone I think sucks is HOF level. Im fine with either result as the hobby for me here is arguing with you sensible people and enjoying learning something. I mean I like football but only when we are winning. So I dont even really like football. 

 

That said, I think its very possible that Haskins being limited didn't make the learning curve for Turner any better, and them learning together made them both look worse than they had to.

 

I could go further into detail but i dont think you really wanted that. Just confirmation from folks that Haskins could be the problem. Which I absolutely think he attributed to. How can you not? 

[philibusters]

2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I just need a couple people here to admit that they can at least consider the idea that along with Turner being bad so far, Haskins has also, simultaneously, not been as good a prospect as they thought. It would give a lot of credibility. 

 

I think a lot of Haskins defenders feel that way.  We were certainly hoping he would be better this year.  The early returns this year were not good.  There was definitely a real possibility that Haskins would not develop like we hoped, but we were not patient enough to find out.

 

I am a bigger college fan then NFL fan and I am used to having to wait a couple years for prospects to develop.  Most college QB and Lineman are not ready as true freshman.   And that is usually true for the other positions at the college level too, though you are more like to get a RB or WR ready as a true freshman than at the other positions.  But it takes time to develop guys.  And Haskins was a project.   I think the more saavy fans realize that.  He was raw.   He only started for one season in college and left after his RS Sophomore year.  He played in a spread system at Ohio St. that is more of a college system than pro system.   He has the physical tools and showed some promise at the pro skills, but they were undeveloped.  So it was a project.  The problem is, you won't ever succeed at a long term project if you give up quickly.  And that is what we did.   Perhaps it wasn't going to work.  Perhaps he would have continued to slowly developed, but then he would stop developing at the Jason Campbell level or something like that.  We don't know because we gave up so early. 

[GOATFrerotte]

1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

The story is that Turner wanted to go with Haskins right?

But a quarter of the season in either Turner and/or Rivera soured on him. But it's up to the HC to make the call to bench him. 

 

This kind of reeks of Rivera saying "told you so" to Turner and then having to save face himself by benching him. Turner comes off as inexperienced and feckless. Rivera doesn't fare much better. This is a perfect storm of poor management.

 

Was this an issue in Carolina? Was Ron always like this? Seems to me like he really needs a GM to make personnel calls.

 

 

Why do people keep saying this over Haskins? He was absolutely terrible. There is nothing wrong with Ron or Turner for benching Haskins. It's not that deep. Just a head coach who thinks his starting qb doesn't have what it takes to run the offense. Doesn't require some deep dive in to the competency of Ron. 

[megared]

1 hour ago, Florgon79 said:

Was this an issue in Carolina? Was Ron always like this? Seems to me like he really needs a GM to make personnel calls.

 

What's scary to me is Ron really didn't do anything once Gettleman got fired.  He hasn't proven anything without him (or Cam, or Sean McDermott for that matter).  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

This isn’t the first time a coach has been made a martyr by fans over a QB.  At least the last time this happened, the QB had one dreamy season under his belt.  This time we’ve got a guy with very little good tape, and quite a bit of suspect tape in conjunction with less than favorable “rumors”.

 

Ron May very well fizzle out here, but it sure as hell won’t be because of Dwayne.  Scott Turner may very well be in over his head and ultimately not very good, so what’s that make him - the coaching version of Dwayne?

[SoCalSkins]

31 minutes ago, megared said:

 

What's scary to me is Ron really didn't do anything once Gettleman got fired.  He hasn't proven anything without him (or Cam, or Sean McDermott for that matter).  

Ron will probably have Cam next year.  Norv signed a 3 year deal with the Panthers prior to 2018 so he should be available as well. 

[Master Blaster]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I think you are misunderestanding the argument.  The argument that a lot of people who don't think Haskins was given a fair shot is that when Haskins was drafted he was a project.  We understood that.  Its the same as say Trey Lance who would be a project.  When  you take a project they are not going to be starter level in the first year or two.   Haskins actually looked better than expected at teh end of last year and while he looked like he regressed a bit in the first four games this year, I would have like to see him developed.   We are like a 10 year we want to do this, until its not as fun as we thought, then that.  We lose interest so quickly.   If you are going to draft project, patience and perservence are required.

 

 

But doesn't the issue surround how Haskins was or apparently wasn't preparing, and not whether he was a project or ready to start? 

[megared]

16 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Ron will probably have Cam next year.  Norv signed a 3 year deal with the Panthers prior to 2018 so he should be available as well. 

 

Norv's not on Rhule's staff.  He was named a special assistant to the interim coach last year, but isn't listed in any capacity, currently.

 

Thinking there might be a reason he's not on the payroll that wouldn't change in that timeframe (Dan doesn't want him).  Otherwise, there was no reason to not bring him on initially.  Or maybe Ron wasn't thrilled that Norv didn't follow him out of the door?  

[CobraCommander]

1 hour ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Why do people keep saying this over Haskins? He was absolutely terrible. There is nothing wrong with Ron or Turner for benching Haskins. It's not that deep. Just a head coach who thinks his starting qb doesn't have what it takes to run the offense. Doesn't require some deep dive in to the competency of Ron. 

I didn’t say he didn’t deserve to be benched. My problem is more so with the rumor that Rivera didn’t want to go with Haskins but Turner did and that Rivera defaulted to a first time OC to make a personnel decision. 
 

My gripe isn’t with the decision to bench Haskins. My gripe is how it ended up getting to that point to begin with. 

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, Florgon79 said:

I didn’t say he didn’t deserve to be benched. My problem is more so with the rumor that Rivera didn’t want to go with Haskins but Turner did and that Rivera defaulted to a first time OC to make a personnel decision. 
 

My gripe isn’t with the decision to bench Haskins. My gripe is how it ended up getting to that point to begin with. 

 

Ahhh, ok. My bad then. That's a legitimate gripe if it did go down that way.

[Conn]

@Llevronthat wasn’t directed towards you or really anyone in particular lol. It was maybe a half-joking shot across the bow to @stevemcqueen1because he’s had a ton of really reasonable points in this thread but without allowing for the possibility, even slight, that on top of everything else Haskins may also have just not been that hot a prospect in retrospect. He sticks to his evals which you have to respect but it does make it hard in conversations like this. 

[CobraCommander]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Nah, Allen is Turner's guy.  Turner is the reason Carolina signed Allen as a UDFA.  He banged the table for Allen there, and I'm sure he did it here too.  Allen is his pet project.  Guarantee the decision to bench Haskins for Allen was Turner's call, and I think Ron has delegated offensive decision making to him and has been trusting him with way too much power.  My read is that Turner is drowning and needed Allen just to have some semblance of familiarity and trust there because the offense has been a disaster, the job is way too big for him right now, and he's not capable of developing a new QB and learning on the job himself at the same time.

 

We burned up Haskins for Turner's on the job training.  It really sucks.  Rivera is trying to wear a ton of different hats right now and it isn't working, but there is absolutely no one else in position to step in and competently take over the leadership burden.  The FO is a total vacuum in leadership, and the coaching staff around him is weak.  It was a dicey situation from the beginning, but then he gets seriously ill and has to go through very debilitating treatments and now its an impossible situation.  He can't even step away to focus on his health because there is no one else just to keep the program running.

So if the game is too big for Turners why is he making personnel calls? Why is he passing on trying to get guys like Cam, keep a veteran like Peterson or get a decent RB like Fournette?

 

I understand that Allen is his pet project. So why not start him over Haskins? 
 

The fact that there was no plan to get a GM is my biggest gripe. The fact that Rivera is delegating this responsibility to a first time OC is a huge problem for me. The fact that this guy made the calls to roll with young and inexperienced at two very important offensive positions is a huge problem for me.
 

TK posted this in the game thread yesterday for reference:

 

“Ron wanted Cam. Scott said he could work with Haskins & didn't want Cam.

 

Or AP.

 

Or Fournette“

[Skinsinparadise]

Not sure where this goes but since i've been posting them here I'll stick to it.

 

 

[joeken24]

On 10/15/2020 at 9:40 PM, CapsSkins said:

Millennials are 24-39. Stop acting like youthful entitlement is specific to any one generation. From the beginning of time older generations have bemoaned the universally immature traits of the 18-24 cohort.

Its a general observation that tends to be true with the exception of a some we call well beyond their years.

[Going Commando]

27 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

 

The fact that there was no plan to get a GM is my biggest gripe. The fact that Rivera is delegating this responsibility to a first time OC is a huge problem for me. The fact that this guy made the calls to roll with young and inexperienced at two very important offensive positions is a huge problem for me.

 

It's a big mess.  We needed to make the GM hire prior to hiring the head coach.  We needed GM, HC, and QB to all be married to each other to force them to work toward the same end.  Now we've got a huge mess at QB on our hands and it's going to be even messier when/if we hire a GM and strip Rivera of a lot of power.  But it needs to happen for this regime to have any chance of success.  Not having a GM is the root of what ****ed the Jets and Texans up so bad and the same situation is playing out here.  This problem needs to be solved ASAP.  The many hands make light work philosophy of fully collaborative teambuilding really just leads to disjointed and nonsensical decision making.  It's more like too many cooks in the kitchen.  There needs to be a big boss in charge of football operations whose full time job is personnel and who looks at everything big picture and does the long term planning.

[CobraCommander]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a big mess.  We needed to make the GM hire prior to hiring the head coach.  We needed GM, HC, and QB to all be married to each other to force them to work toward the same end.  Now we've got a huge mess at QB on our hands and it's going to be even messier when/if we hire a GM and strip Rivera of a lot of power.  But it needs to happen for this regime to have any chance of success.  Not having a GM is the root of what ****ed the Jets and Texans up so bad and the same situation is playing out here.  This problem needs to be solved ASAP.  The many hands make light work philosophy of fully collaborative teambuilding really just leads to disjointed and nonsensical decision making.  It's more like too many cooks in the kitchen.  There needs to be a big boss in charge of football operations whose full time job is personnel and who looks at everything big picture and does the long term planning.

 

 

I 100% agree with you. Also the saying is Too many Chefs in the kitchen. As a Chef myself I can never have too many cooks. But if I have 6 sous chefs all changing my recipes, I can't blame the cook for ****ing up my dish.

[GOATFrerotte]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a big mess.  We needed to make the GM hire prior to hiring the head coach.  We needed GM, HC, and QB to all be married to each other to force them to work toward the same end.  Now we've got a huge mess at QB on our hands and it's going to be even messier when/if we hire a GM and strip Rivera of a lot of power.  But it needs to happen for this regime to have any chance of success.  Not having a GM is the root of what ****ed the Jets and Texans up so bad and the same situation is playing out here.  This problem needs to be solved ASAP.  The many hands make light work philosophy of fully collaborative teambuilding really just leads to disjointed and nonsensical decision making.  It's more like too many cooks in the kitchen.  There needs to be a big boss in charge of football operations whose full time job is personnel and who looks at everything big picture and does the long term planning.

 

You've come to this conclusion 6 games in to this new regime? Eek

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a big mess.  We needed to make the GM hire prior to hiring the head coach.  We needed GM, HC, and QB to all be married to each other to force them to work toward the same end.  Now we've got a huge mess at QB on our hands and it's going to be even messier when/if we hire a GM and strip Rivera of a lot of power.  But it needs to happen for this regime to have any chance of success.  Not having a GM is the root of what ****ed the Jets and Texans up so bad and the same situation is playing out here.  This problem needs to be solved ASAP.  The many hands make light work philosophy of fully collaborative teambuilding really just leads to disjointed and nonsensical decision making.  It's more like too many cooks in the kitchen.  There needs to be a big boss in charge of football operations whose full time job is personnel and who looks at everything big picture and does the long term planning.

Question: If they hired a GM, the GM hires Rivera and they collectively decided Haskins wasn’t the guy after the same performances/stories... would you be okay with it then?

[88Comrade2000]

14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's a big mess.  We needed to make the GM hire prior to hiring the head coach.  We needed GM, HC, and QB to all be married to each other to force them to work toward the same end.  Now we've got a huge mess at QB on our hands and it's going to be even messier when/if we hire a GM and strip Rivera of a lot of power.  But it needs to happen for this regime to have any chance of success.  Not having a GM is the root of what ****ed the Jets and Texans up so bad and the same situation is playing out here.  This problem needs to be solved ASAP.  The many hands make light work philosophy of fully collaborative teambuilding really just leads to disjointed and nonsensical decision making.  It's more like too many cooks in the kitchen.  There needs to be a big boss in charge of football operations whose full time job is personnel and who looks at everything big picture and does the long term planning.

Will never happen under Snyder.

[goskins10]

On 10/18/2020 at 1:39 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

 

Here's the rub:  I might not know what the **** Cooley is talking about when he goes over my head with the football lingo, but it's clear as day when Haskins misses a wide open running back 4 yards away just as obvious as when my car has a flat tire.

 

I agree with everything you said. But for mme, the last part is all that has been needed to describe the problem with Haskins. Now I know people have said he can be coached out of it. But I also believe there are attitude issues. There is no way you give up on a young QB like that so fast unless there are issues between the ears that are unrelated to physical skills. Clearly a guess on my part but I think there is another there to suggest it's a pretty good guess. 

[ExoDus84]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF Grades

 

Sounds about right. Allen/O-line, and the D-line all played well. Young didn't have a big game statistically, but graded out extremely well. His contribution clearly goes beyond raw sack numbers.

 

It's more and more obvious every week we need a significant upgrade at LB and S. Those guys just aren't cutting it, week in and week out. The Collins contract is a damn anchor dragging down our financials. What an awful contract for the performance we're getting.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

There is no way you give up on a young QB like that so fast unless there are issues between the ears that are unrelated to physical skills.

This is what seems to escape most of the crew claiming Haskins is being scapegoated, or that it's racist he didn't get more time, or whatever other excuses they are clinging to in this situation.  To demote Haskins to 3rd string spoke volumes but some just don't want to hear it.  Ultimately, Rivera would have to be a vindictive prick with ulterior motives to make such a bold move to a kid that's really giving everything he's got and doing what's asked of him day in and day out.

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

It's more and more obvious every week we need a significant upgrade at LB and S. Those guys just aren't cutting it, week in and week out.

Live look at @KDawgscreaming back into the house to get his phone and be the first to ‘like’ this post: