FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Allgoodthingscometoaend said:

1 year of College!!!

what were the Skins thinking???

would any of us get in a Uber ride with a kid that’s been driving for 1 year or 4 years?

I mean whoever pulled up I’d probably take the Uber...

[Allgoodthingscometoaend]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I mean whoever pulled up I’d probably take the Uber...

I think that’s what our front office decided to do also while scouting 

[clskinsfan]

56 minutes ago, Allgoodthingscometoaend said:

1 year of College!!!

what were the Skins thinking???

would any of us get in a Uber ride with a kid that’s been driving for 1 year or 4 years?

 

He didnt have one year of college. He only started in one year. And the time sitting and watching prepared him for his chance. There is no denying the stats. That one year was legendary. Maybe Dwayne is a late bloomer, Aaron Rogers was one. So was Steve Young. 

[Allgoodthingscometoaend]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

He didnt have one year of college. He only started in one year. And the time sitting and watching prepared him for his chance. There is no denying the stats. That one year was legendary. Maybe Dwayne is a late bloomer, Aaron Rogers was one. So was Steve Young. 

Sorry I should of been clearer. I was talking about 1 year of starting in college as a QB not 1 year of education. 
Rogers and Young sat on the sidelines being taught by legends such as Favre and Montana which helped them eventually become great. Haskins don’t have that in DC so they should of drafted a QB that had more starting time under his belt.  

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In my view as long as he plays then all these side stories about how the chef in theory makes the meal become irrelevant -- since we will actually be able to eat the meal so to speak.   I was at camp for 5 practices and saw after 2 practices Haskins throw for about an extra 15 minutes a couple of times.  He seems like a nice kid.  The one thing that everyone else seems to say about him is he's a nice guy, likable.   

 

My main thing is let him play, work through the ups and downs. 

 

 

the way Callahan said it, I don't recall the exact quote, gave me and I notice some who cover the team the impression that Haskins started doing it recently as opposed to the whole time.  Ditto O'Connell saying something to the effect of the Giants game was a wake up call and implied it changed his preparation.

 

Regardless of how we arrived to this point, we will see it play out.  And I don't mean it in a way where am putting pressure on him.  I expect struggles but looking for some flashes in the mix.  Some got excited (me to an extent, too) about his preseason performance albeit number wise it was mediocre to poor.  I feel the same way this time.  Unlike Callahan (though who knows if he meant it) my big thing isn't about whether Haskins wins the game.  But about growth -- improvement.  

 

Edit:

 

jst found the O'Connell part

 

 

Craig Hoffman

 

✔@CraigHoffman

 

 

Kevin O’Connell says he’s seen a change in Dwayne Haskins the last two weeks since he’s been firmly named the #2. Giants game was also a huge wake up call for him.

DH has started to understand the urgency. Just part of the process. He’s young and is definitely progressing.

 

What bugs me about this is that we have so many current/former qbs (starters and backup) involved with the team.  Cavanaugh, O’Connell, Rattay, McCoy, Doug Williams, Keenum, Smith... it’s a big group.  So, were they all getting in Haskins’ ear about how to handle things*, or did they let him figure out the process on his own?  Was it too many, leading to a muddled msg?  

Obviously it’s possible a certain number of them spoke to him about this and that he just ignored them, but that seems quite strange - ignoring your own coaches and guys that have been in your same general situation.  
 

It would be one thing to have such an ego that you ignore guys that have been through it, but ignoring your coaches too?  That doesn’t at all seem realistic IMO.  
 

*By ‘handle things’, I’m referring to the amount of work put in, staying involved on the sideline, etc... not how to play the position or operate the scheme.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Listened to Keim's latest podcast.

 

He says no one he's talking to right now are saying Alex is back next year.  He's not sure about him coming back from that many surgeries especially for a Qb who relied more on his legs than most.  He talked to someone in the FO about it who told him more or less that they don't love a scenario where in effect Haskins doesn't start until his 3rd year.

 

Sheehan is the one barking on the Alex idea, Cooley, too but both of them say its their theory versus anything they've heard. 

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listened to Keim's latest podcast.

 

He says no one he's talking to right now are saying Alex is back next year.  He's not sure about him coming back from that many surgeries especially for a Qb who relied more on his legs than most.  He talked to someone in the FO about it who told him more or less that they don't love a scenario where in effect Haskins doesn't start until his 3rd year.

 

Sheehan is the one barking on the Alex idea, Cooley, too but both of them say its their theory versus anything they've heard. 

It’s hard to fathom, but the contract and way Alex seems to be wired puts it 25% for me. Sheehan will squeeze the juice out of this as much as possible lol

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s hard to fathom, but the contract and way Alex seems to be wired puts it 25% for me. Sheehan will squeeze the juice out of this as much as possible lol

 

Sheehan seems entertained by the story.  Like me he's amused by Bruce's obsession with reliving that season.  But I trust Keim the most.  He's not perfect with his info (no one is) but he gives the impression it isn't something that they are counting on.  And at least someone in that FO sees it the same way I do which is it's not the best thing to have your young Qb start in their 3rd season. 

[SoCalSkins]

Keim is a huge Ohio state fan and a Haskins apologist. He’s not credible on Haskins. 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Keim is a huge Ohio state fan and a Haskins apologist. He’s not credible on Haskins. 

 

All he said was the person he talked to in the FO didn't like the idea of Haskins not starting until year 3.  He'd have to be making that up then because he wasn't stating an opinion but referring to a source. 

 

If you listen to Keim's podcasts he's far from a Haskins apologist by the way.   

[wit33]

47 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Keim is a huge Ohio state fan and a Haskins apologist. He’s not credible on Haskins. 

Liquidate it all. Bet it on the Bills.
 

It’s your time! 

[Dissident2]

I heard that Alex's podcast is actually coming back soon, the one he does at Redskins Park. That's pretty interesting ...

 

 

[evmiii]

Haskins doesn't need to win tomorrow; he just needs to play well enough to make the decision makers look incompetent when they go back to Keenum next week.  He could probably win tomorrow and they still would say he's not quite ready.  Buffalo is a better football team and will win tomorrow but I hope Haskins looks better.  The next coach really needs to know if we need to find a QB.

[Thinking Skins]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I admit I don't love the multiple narratives (heck even his coaches alluded to it) about how he's now kicking in and stepping up the work (doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece together that he wasn't working as hard as they'd like, multiple beat guys flat out said that's what they heard).   Having said that the dude seems competitive as heck and I suspect and hope the ups and downs of actually playing will help fuel his drive to excel.   So I hope they let the dude play and work his way through it all. 

 

See while you like the chef & restaurant analogies, I like comparing the NFL, and particularly rookies adapting to the NFL to grad school. Both are situations where people who were at the top of their classes in their respective fields come into a new area where they're at somewhat of the bottom end of the totem pole. Even the top tier schools, the Ivy Leagues and stuff have guys who flop out. There are so many people who for whatever reason just don't finish the PhD process. 

 

And two sides of the same coin that I see (saw) so often in this was the under and over confidence thing. With Penn, he talked about how as an UDFA, he kinda got through his underconfidence thing with vets coming up to him saying that his technique and work ethic would take him far in the league.

 

But I got so used to kids from Berkeley, MIT, Purdue, Rice, etc coming into grad school and bascially thinking they should teach the classes until they failed comps. I don't get the impression that Haskins is in this camp. I get the impression that RG3 is in this camp. 

 

What I get from Haskins is something like we're taking a class as first year grad students, and its supposed to be a standard grad school class so we should be able to find a lot of references on it. But instead of using the standard books and notation, our teacher (Gruden) has decided to push his own notes / "pre-first edition for a text book" to the class, where he has changed standard concepts which makes it almost impossible to study it outside of talking to Gruden. Only problem is that Gruden isn't really interested in talking to him because he's a rookie who needs more time and won't help the team win this year, thus won't help save his job. 

 

I went through this in two classes in grad school. The first time it was my first semester of my first year and it was gruesome. Now the "Gruden" in that case was a GREAT teacher who noticed that he made a mistake in using a new book (Rotman's Modern Algebra) where he was just trying to change the lingo for the course. Luckily I could stay in my professor's office, get recommendations on outside references, compare them and go to him when the sources disagreed.

 

But the second time, the professor was an arrogant prick. He said the "course book" was a book by Bertsimas (a famous mathematician at MIT), but the real book was course notes that were (a) hand-written (b) had mistakes, and (c) used different than standard terminology. Now, unlike the first professor, this guy was an arrogant prick who felt like if a student asked him questions they were insulting him and so office hours were like pulling teeth. Now the thing is that this was a standard course and a much easier course than Modern Algebra (once you have a good book). But not only did I not understand the notes / book, I didn't know what I didn't understand, I didn't have anybody I could ask questions, and I didn't have any outside references. I wound up doing very poorly in that class, to the point where the professor (same arrogant one) said he thought I wasn't trying. 

 

The Haskins & Gruden situation reminds me of that second story. I know I'm biased but others have compared the Redskins and Bruce to bad boss situations, we've heard about Breeland and the DB coach at the time, Norman and other DB coaches, and Collins and the DC in NY. I'm of the opinion that Haskins and Gruden probably just didn't have a relationship that was effective to developing Haskins. Maybe I'm way off, but that's the vibe I've been getting since before the draft when Gruden gave his opinions on him. 

[SoCalSkins]

if this is true there is zero hope for Haskins. None. End of career. 

[London Kev]

@Thinking Skins I also took algebra, I moved on to do trigonometry and then did statistics.... But I drew the line at graphing. 

 

Crickets...

 

All right, I'll get my coat.

[Thinking Skins]

21 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

if this is true there is zero hope for Haskins. None. End of career. 

I'll get off the grad school analogy thing and just say again that any time I hear the media and coaches question intelligence like this, I'm on the side of the player. I've stated the reasons before, but this has been something the league has done for a long time. I posted stories where it was done with DeSean Watson. It was also done with McNabb and others. I wanted him to sit, but not for this reason. But we'll see in about 15 hours. 

[SoCalSkins]

37 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

...Maybe I'm way off, but that's the vibe I've been getting since before the draft when Gruden gave his opinions on him. 

You are way off. Completely off. He was given the cheat sheet to the test but couldn’t even transcribe the multiple choice answers from the cheat sheet to the scantron.

 

i blew up your argument without even needing to use an analogy about my advanced education. You might want to try that out sometime in your arguments maybe? 

[Thinking Skins]

 

1 hour ago, evmiii said:

Haskins doesn't need to win tomorrow; he just needs to play well enough to make the decision makers look incompetent when they go back to Keenum next week.  He could probably win tomorrow and they still would say he's not quite ready.  Buffalo is a better football team and will win tomorrow but I hope Haskins looks better.  The next coach really needs to know if we need to find a QB.

I think this is the most investing angle. There are 4 basic options 

 

1. Haskins plays well and we win

2. Hankins plays well and we lose

3. Haskins plays poorly and we win

4. Haskins plays poorly and we lose. 

 

Of course there is ambiguity in the playing well or not, like where does he miss a read, force a throw, have mechanics off, not lead a WR, throw it when he should have kept it, keep it when he should have thrown it, etc. 

 

But if all Cal wants is a win then no matter how well Haskins plays, a loss will be an excuse to put Keenum back in. But if we're looking for development, we care more about him playing well. But if we're interested in the draft, people probably care only about losing. But if we care about NOT drafting a QB, we probably want Haskins playing well and a loss. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens and how it plays out

[SkinsGuy]

8 hours ago, London Kev said:

@Thinking Skins I also took algebra, I moved on to do trigonometry and then did statistics.... But I drew the line at graphing. 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

‘Luck Dwayne mate.

 

Here’s to you making it impossible for Case to come back into the starting role after the bye.

 

Hail.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

The Haskins & Gruden situation reminds me of that second story. I know I'm biased but others have compared the Redskins and Bruce to bad boss situations, we've heard about Breeland and the DB coach at the time, Norman and other DB coaches, and Collins and the DC in NY. I'm of the opinion that Haskins and Gruden probably just didn't have a relationship that was effective to developing Haskins. Maybe I'm way off, but that's the vibe I've been getting since before the draft when Gruden gave his opinions on him. 

 

I'll start with my food analogy was used to defend not slam Haskins.   I get your point about grad school.  I agree with part of it but not all of it.  I myself went to and also graduated grad school albeit not for a PHD but master's degree.

 

In short, I agree it was an adjustment.  I did better in some classes versus others.   However, my work habits in grad school were very similar to undergrad especially late undergrad when I was striving to get into a good grad school.   I was then and still now am a pretty driven guy who is willing to put whatever time it takes to succeed.   And I've found that trait with others to be a fairly static personality trait that doesn't really change much from context to context.  Now, I am not saying Haskins has issues on that front.  I like his competitive drive and want to be great -- at least that's how he comes off rhetoric wise.  But I'll get to that in a sec.

 

It's amazing how some of my friends from college are the same type of people today on that front.  The harder working students are mostly successful today -- the ones who were lazier not so much with an exception.   I work in a business where I have friends with different variances of work habits.  And it's almost eerie how static those habits are regardless of what sticks or carrots are dangled in front of them.  I've tried to help some of my friends on that front because I've seen opportunities escape them because they don't seize them.  But, it's actually become a joke with some of my mutual friends with said people that you can try to motivate others but when it's all said and done we tend to stay the same with maybe temporary but fleeting changes.

 

I don't think big bad Jay was what kept Haskins down all by itself.  I am sure he didn't love having a narrative that Jay supposedly didn't want him.  Ditto others in that FO.    It's amazing how much people at Redskins Park are willing to leak stuff about Haskins through this day.  So I do believe Paulsen when he says he's talked to some in that building recently who just don't think Haskins has "it".   Just about every beat guy who covers the team has a narrative like that running right now.   I am not saying those critics are right.  But I 100% believe Haskins has guys in that building, certainly beyond Jay, who have doubts on him.  Riddick who is close to Haskins' family has suggested that Haskins is aware.   So I agree that's a lot for a young dude to absorb. 

 

The whole situation is a bit weird, for sure.   It's part of the reason why I said play the dude and shut down all these side narratives that mean nothing to the bottom line because we will watch a meal being completed versus worrying about how the meal will be cooked in advance.   He has no choice but to get over it.  But the one pass I won't give on that front are work habits.   When I watched Haskins in camp he was inaccurate and threw a ton of picks.  He had a lot to work through from what I saw.   I've started off rough in a class or two in grad school, and it fueled me to get better and I ultimately excelled in those same classes.    My work habits didn't come and go. 

 

Having said that, my main point is if it's true that Haskins has recently stepped up his work habits.  That's good enough for me in the moment.  I'd gravitate towards O'Connell's comments about the Giants game being a wakeup call.  Sometimes you need a kick in the pants to get going.    My point is let's see if likewise Haskins uses it as fuel.  His work habits for all we know might have just needed to be kick started.  But if we hear anymore about their being ups and downs on that front -- I see it as a red flag.  I think that guys like Peyton Manning who reputedly obsess about football and work nonstop are self motivated dudes who are like that all the time -- its just how they are wired.  Eli ironically supposedly isn't wired the same.   

 

I'll give Haskins a break on that front for now but if its the same picture painted weeks from now I'd take it as a red flag.   That's where i hit my meal analogy.  I wipe all of that stuff clean.  Let's see how he plays. He seems like a nice kid.  Got my fingers crossed.  And I am not looking for great games from him or as Callahan says wins.  I am looking for flashes-progress. 

[Commander Adama]

8 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

You are way off. Completely off. He was given the cheat sheet to the test but couldn’t even transcribe the multiple choice answers from the cheat sheet to the scantron.

 

i blew up your argument without even needing to use an analogy about my advanced education. You might want to try that out sometime in your arguments maybe? 

 

 So Quarterbacks are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. Well unless it's Russell Stover and it's labeled on the bottom of the box or you buy a whole box of one type like chocolate covered cherries. 

[RandyHolt]

I have a feeling coaches have been telling Haskins that he is not ready, needs work, is a long term project blah blah, and it sucked the motivation to work hard right out of him, prepare to the max..... simply put maybe it is just very hard to be driven when the coach tells you that you are too young to drive. 

 

We drafted a 21 year old with 1 year of college play.  Have our expectations of him off and on the field reflected that?   The only people to think a 21 year old male is mature, are 21 year old males. He likely had high expectations taken at 15 coming to this dumpster fire, thinking he should start, whatever, so needed them put in check to move forward. #EgoCheck

 

It surprises me not to hear his motivation has ramped up.  Here's to hoping his fine play renders Case to the bench. This team no longer needs Case Keenum except as an emergency fill in. We have plenty of vet QBs in the fold to mentor Dwayne.

[skinsmania123]

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'll get off the grad school analogy thing and just say again that any time I hear the media and coaches question intelligence like this, I'm on the side of the player. I've stated the reasons before, but this has been something the league has done for a long time. I posted stories where it was done with DeSean Watson. It was also done with McNabb and others. I wanted him to sit, but not for this reason. But we'll see in about 15 hours. 

I am not buying this at all just based on what I have seen. It has looked to me when Haskins has played that he is overthrowing guys like what was so blatantly obvious to all of us with TM.  I mean when I have seen this guy throw the ball to WR's they are where he is throwing he is just missing them.  And when he hands off the ball, whoever is back there at RB is certainly taking the ball. so not sure what this is all about.  My main concern about Haskins is what I see as a fan.  Poor delivery of the ball.  And some of the guys on here that know more about mechanics have pointed that out and when I look at some of the film with Haskins they are spot on.  Soooo what the hell here?  

 

But whewwww IF that is all it is, but my eyes say it is not, he should be fine with a "play tutor".