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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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2 minutes ago, megared said:

 

A culture around a bunch of dudes you need to replace anyways. He should've/could've brought in almost any vet.  He then would've had a legitimate reason to sit Haskins down, and avoid this nonsense.  Maybe Rivera could've generated enough intrigue around Haskins to garner a ham sandwich via trade, if he knew he was never gonna be the guy.  But there wasn't a need to ever play him, and confirm it for the world, if he was never committed to exercising patience.  

 

Feels like Ron wasted a season because of indecisiveness with the QB.  I think it's disingenuous to throw out the team record, and other guys feelings, when he made the choice for the team to not compete in some of those games.  


Nothing has changed with him benching Haskins for Allen other than to see if Allen could be the guy going forward while he finds his own qb. 

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1 hour ago, Llevron said:

On a serious note I do have to wonder why start him at all if 4 games was all the rep he was gonna get. But I can understand that Ron’s whole deal is to keep the players playing hard, and that’s impossible to do if they have no faith in the Qb starting. Maybe that was all bs. I will probably never know but I would prefer to trust him as o hear he is trust worthy. 
 

that’s all I got 💁🏾

 

This is what I'm saying, and indeed it doesn't make any sense at all.  If Kyle Allen knows the system better, why not start him from the jump?  I will tell you what, the media was also saying that Haskins looked better than Kyle Allen, who was described as an interception machine.

He may be listening to 106.7 the fan in the morning a bit too much.  Seems like he gets swayed by the media.  I hope I am wrong about that.

Everybody wants to win ASAP, but the long-term approach is the best approach.  

When the caps started rebuilding, they did not win outright.  Look what happened though.  They turned into a powerhouse.

 

Okay, players complained.  Who?  Definitely not Haskins' best buddy Terry Mclaurin. If anything, McLaurin does not like what's happening to his friend.  Who wants to bet?  

 

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1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

I personally am ready for the Allen excuses and Haskins slander.

 

I personally am not a big beliver in either Allen or Haskins based on what i watched.

 

I don't even think Allen and Haskins' performances are interlinked in any way.    They both might not be the answer.  And sadly I think the odds are both aren't the answer.

 

I think we are QB shopping in 2021. 

 

It's not as if Rivera is selling Allen as some killer solution.  His comment about maybe he tried too much last year in Carolina is an acknowledgement that he wasn't good. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Joe Gibbs traded for Mark Brunell in 2004 to come here and be the starter to replace a first round draft pick with only 16 starts under his belt.  The idea that a new coach/coaching staff has to be married to a player solely because of draft pick is insane to me.  If anything, Rivera started Haskins this year to show Snyder how under developed he was.  Similar to Gruden continuing to start RG3 when he was getting murdered in every preseason game in 2015.  

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4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Joe Gibbs traded for Mark Brunell in 2004 to come here and be the starter to replace a first round draft pick with only 16 starts under his belt.  The idea that a new coach/coaching staff has to be married to a player solely because of draft pick is insane to me.  If anything, Rivera started Haskins this year to show Snyder how under developed he was.  Similar to Gruden continuing to start RG3 when he was getting murdered in every preseason game in 2015.  


What percentage would you attach to Allen being a franchise QB for the team? 

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

@stevemcqueen1, you can evaluate circles around me and most others here so this is not intended as an insult—but is it completely out of the realm of possibility in your mind that Haskins just ****ing sucks and doesn’t have it? You were the biggest Gabbert fan in the entire universe, and though that was almost a decade ago, everyone misses. 

 

The WFT misses continuously.  Wondering when it's going to set in for the majority of the fanbase that the players aren't the problem here.  Dwayne was a good prospect, I'm not going to be gaslighted into forgetting his season at Ohio State because he failed to develop for an NFL team that set him up to fail.

 

I've watched a lot of QB prospects and one thing I eventually learned is that these kids are a lot closer to each other in ability than people believe.  Pretty much every year there are like three or four kids who are good enough to become good starting QBs at the next level.  There will be relatively minor differences in their skills, but in general almost all of them can make every NFL throw, operate a functional offense, make reads pretty well, and grow into the leadership role the job demands.  They're really good players and typically demonstrate that fact while playing for good college teams.

 

And their success or failure at the next level hinges almost entirely upon the situation they get drafted into.  That and staying healthy.  Most of the league is really bad with the quarterback position and isn't capable of developing the position.    The WFT is not unique in being totally incompetent at developing the position.  But it does damn us to noncompetitiveness.  We've been trying to do it our own way at QB since at least the 70's, and it just doesn't work in today's NFL.  For this team to successfully develop a QB, they're going to have to do it the tried and true way of hiring a good GM who then hires a good coach and immediately drafts a good QB prospect and the three of them are all married together.

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9 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

This is what I'm saying, and indeed it doesn't make any sense at all.  If Kyle Allen knows the system better, why not start him from the jump?  I will tell you what, the media was also saying that Haskins looked better than Kyle Allen, who was described as an interception machine.

He may be listening to 106.7 the fan in the morning a bit too much.  Seems like he gets swayed by the media.  I hope I am wrong about that.

Everybody wants to win ASAP, but the long-term approach is the best approach.  

When the caps started rebuilding, they did not win outright.  Look what happened though.  They turned into a powerhouse.

 

Okay, players complained.  Who?  Definitely not Haskins' best buddy Terry Mclaurin. If anything, McLaurin does not like what's happening to his friend.  Who wants to bet?  

 

 

What makes you think it's the media persuading Ron and not Haskins being the statistically worst passer in the league. Seems pretty obvious why he's making the change. 

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

One of the reporters should have followed up when Rivera said guys were getting frustrated with Dwayne on the sidelines and he didn't want to lose them by continuing to play Dwayne by asking which players was he talking about. 

Maybe if was also going to bench some of them that have had repeated stinkers on both sides of the ball?

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5 minutes ago, wit33 said:


What percentage would you attach to Allen being a franchise QB for the team? 


He wasn’t drafted by us so greater than zero. Maybe .01% chance. If he’s our Todd Collins this year he’s served his purpose. We don’t need him to be a franchise QB. 

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think we are QB shopping in 2021. 

 

 

I think the bar is pretty high for the team to not go QB shopping in 2021.  I doubt Allen hits that level.

 

If the Salary Cap does hit the floor of 175 million...the Cowboys can afford to franchise Dak only through mortgaging the team's future by restructuring and locking themselves even longer into players that are already getting old and declining.  There's a real chance he hits the open market.

 

Unfortunately that's the only quality free agent QB I'm seeing available.  I don't think Cam Newton leaves New England.  I don't think Philip Rivers has 1 more year in him.

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It's not like Rivera is a stranger to having a franchise QB.  Cam flashed right away.  Ups and downs but showed flashes.  Burrow is flashing.  Herbert is showing flashes.  Haskins hasn't flashed IMO early this season.  Apparently according to some he didn't really flash during training camp.

 

I wasn't a Haskins guy before the draft because i don't think he can make all the throws.  Watching him in camp confirmed that for me.  I've not really seen anything change on that front during the season.  So Rivera saying he didn't see the progress he wanted doesn't to me come off like a comment from Mars.  Makes sense to me. 

 

You got me if I end up right about Haskins but my take on watching his college games is I would bet against him as to being a success in the NFL.  And if that's how Rivera sees him, I don't flich at all about the benching.    It doesn't seem wild or crazy to me.    Haskins had his share of critics not just fans during the draft process.   This isn't some universally loved prospect, seen as almost a sure fire stud. 

 

Granted as its been said here, most QB prospects fail.  But if Haskins doesn't succeed its not going to be some earth shattering shocker.    He was ballyhooed but not to the extent of some other top prospects in recent years.   When Keim said recently that if the WFT didn't take him at 15 he might have dropped to the 2nd.  And Cooley and Banner said many teams didn't have a first round grade on him, i believe them.   

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I think the bar is pretty high for the team to not go QB shopping in 2021.  I doubt Allen hits that level.

 

If the Salary Cap does hit the floor of 175 million...the Cowboys can afford to franchise Dak only through mortgaging the team's future by restructuring and locking themselves even longer into players that are already getting old and declining.  There's a real chance he hits the open market.

 

Unfortunately that's the only quality free agent QB I'm seeing available.  I don't think Cam Newton leaves New England.  I don't think Philip Rivers has 1 more year in him.


Pats are not going to pay Cam. They didn’t pay Brady. That’s not what Bellichick does. Cam will be a free agent. We have plenty of cap. He can walk in the door at age 32 as undisputed starter on a team in the weakest division in football with relationships with the Head coach and OC with a decent D and some nice pieces in place. It’s a no brainer. 

Edited by SoCalSkins
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

You can't build Rome in a day.  Rivera has more or less said that.    For Rivera to talk Dan out of Haskins from day 1 on the job, I don't think would be easy or the dude genuninely wanted to see it play out, and didn't like what he saw.  It's not the end of the world IMO.  We can try to find a QB next year.   I seriously doubt Dan would have let Rivera bail right from the get go.

 

I agree with Cooley's take on this, I doubt Rivera's main motivation to bench Haskins is to win now.  But you got to give a nice excuse for the benching.  If Rivera went national about all the reasons that perhaps he thought why Haskins didn't have what it takes -- it would be cruel and also it would devalue him as an asset.  And for those here who really like Haskins as a prospect, I somehow doubt they'd prefer it if Rivera let it fly with the likely real reason why he benched Haskins.

 

You can't build at all if you don't have a good plan at quarterback.  I don't really understand why Rivera operated the way he has so far, his statements and decisions have been pretty incoherent.  But I am sure that none of it has been for Dwayne Haskins's benefit.  And effectively blaming him for the losses seems like a ****ty way of trying not to embarrass the kid.

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I totally disagree. For the past 25 years I feel like we have spent too much time wasted on trying to develop or build around qbs that just aren't good. I think cutting the cord this early on a project with a high chance of failure is a sign that things are changing in DC!

Edited by httr2020dynasty
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9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

You can't build at all if you don't have a good plan at quarterback.

 

We didn't have a good situation to begin with. We have a first round QB who played like an UDFA last year, and hasn't gotten any better. We have another young QB that showed flashes last year, but was turnover prone and is currently an unknown. Then, we have a vet coming off a devastating injury who may/may not be able to play at a high level, but most certainly is not the future anyway. In this situation, you do the best you can. In this case, Rivera started the high first round draft pick to begin the season, to see if he could catch on with the offense and show some growth. It hasn't happened, and so he's making a change.

 

Rivera has seen Haskins all offseason, in meetings, on the practice field, on game day/on tape, etc. It's obvious he doesn't think he can run the offense well, and that is born out statistically with Haskins being damn near the worst passer in the NFL by every major passing metric. Rivera's plan was probably to play Haskins all year and hopefully see incremental progress each week. That obviously hasn't happened, and so the plan has to change.

 

At any rate, I'm with other posters who think there's more going on behind the scenes than we are led to believe. We all can see Haskins has played poorly, but to go from starter to 3rd string instantly tells me that there's some stuff happening that we aren't privy to. Something that Rivera just didn't want any part of. I'll defer to him and Kyle Smith in this regard.

 

Let's move forward.

Edited by ExoDus84
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10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You can't build at all if you don't have a good plan at quarterback.  I don't really understand why Rivera operated the way he has so far, his statements and decisions have been pretty incoherent.  But I am sure that none of it has been for Dwayne Haskins's benefit.  And effectively blaming him for the losses seems like a ****ty way of trying not to embarrass the kid.

 

If he doesn't believe in the kid -- he could say a lot worse than what he's said.  He tried to soft peddle it by talking up experience in the system.  He preferred people who had that experience, etc.  I presume if he said what he really felt it would be a mile harsher. 

 

I don't think its that hard to read between the lines that Rivera doesn't believe in him.     But he's entitled to feel whatever he does.  

 

You and i disagreed about Haskins.  But we agree about RG3.  Loved RG3 as a prospect. If I recall I fault him more in his own demise than you do but I do share your love of his skill set and dissapointment that he didn't work out.   And i think you and i from what i recall among the few who liked both RG3 and Kirk and didn't see it as picking sides. 

 

When Jay decided to annoit Kirk as the starter, I backed him on it.  It's not because I agreed with him on the decision but I said at the time he's the HC and he's entitled to pick the QB he wanted.  And I said then I'll have Kirk's back and I said he deserves a decent sample size.  I feel the same way here about Ron.  IMO it would be dysfunctional for the HC to not have his guy or find his guy.  And if he doesn't believe in the same QB that I do then that's his business.  He's running the team and he should do it his way.

 

So just like I said before this happened, I'll back Ron in whatever he chooses, start Haskins, bench him.  IMO he doesn't need to explain himself and i don't need to agree with him.  You hire someone to do a job, let him do that job.  Judge him later IMO but give him some time. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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@stevemcqueen1I appreciate the response. I’m sure you’re right that QB prospects, once you hit a certain skill-set and talent threshold, are closer than the average fan thinks minus some obvious prodigies. But from the outside it does seem like a rather convenient way to brush aside misevaluations, to be able to say “he was just as good as the guys who hit in his class but was drafted to a bad team”. I’m not saying you’re wrong, it clearly plays a major part. I’m just saying that it has to make it hard to self-evaluate when there’s a built in excuse for the QBs who don’t become franchise guys (usually occurring on bad teams, of course).

 

So just to clarify, you really think there is zero chance he was actually not that good of a prospect, and for you to believe otherwise you’d have to be “gaslighted” into it in your words? Zero chance? There’s no way that was a poor eval that Rivera got stuck with? 
 

Setting aside my feelings about how confident you are on that topic, I guess I’m just confused how Rivera was supposed to have “a plan” at QB if he thought Haskins sucked but still wanted the job? He inherited a 1st round QB picked by the owner and had to at least give him a shot, but clearly 2021 is the offseason I’d expect him to be eyeing for “his” guy that he’ll be married to. He wasn’t hired into a clean slate or in a position to take “his guy” at QB, he was hired to a team that had just spent serious capital on a guy he probably didn’t believe in. What’s the play there? He wasn’t staring at a Kyler Murray on the board that would give him the justification to immediately pull a Rosen on Haskins—even if he generally liked Tua he was staring at Chase Young right there. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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I think it’s fair to wonder why the WFT didn’t draft Tua. Of course, we got Young. So there’s that. And Tua was injured. And Ron probably promised Dan he’d give Dwayne a chance. 
 

But I don’t know what plan you guys wanted him to have this year. If he doesn’t have a plan this offseason, I’ll be concerned.

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24 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:


Pats are not going to pay Cam. They didn’t pay Brady. That’s not what Bellichick does. Cam will be a free agent. We have plenty of cap. He can walk in the door at age 32 as undisputed starter on a team in the weakest division in football with relationships with the Head coach and OC with a decent D and some nice pieces in place. It’s a no brainer. 

 

I should clarify.  I don't think Cam wants to leave New England.  He's said he's already made "enough money" in his career.  He wanted to go somewhere with a good organization.  I think he'll be happy taking the Brady discount.  I think if he does depart New England, there are very few destinations he'd accept.

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45 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

 

This is what I'm saying, and indeed it doesn't make any sense at all.  If Kyle Allen knows the system better, why not start him from the jump?  I will tell you what, the media was also saying that Haskins looked better than Kyle Allen, who was described as an interception machine.

He may be listening to 106.7 the fan in the morning a bit too much.  Seems like he gets swayed by the media.  I hope I am wrong about that.

Everybody wants to win ASAP, but the long-term approach is the best approach.  

When the caps started rebuilding, they did not win outright.  Look what happened though.  They turned into a powerhouse.

 

Okay, players complained.  Who?  Definitely not Haskins' best buddy Terry Mclaurin. If anything, McLaurin does not like what's happening to his friend.  Who wants to bet?  

 

Why is it so hard for some of you guys to see that Haskins just wasn't progressing in his development? He dosen't even have the basic fundamentals of a NFL QB right now..Rivera owes it to the other players to try and win now and Haskins does not give the team that.

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3 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I should clarify.  I don't think Cam wants to leave New England.  He's said he's already made "enough money" in his career.  He wanted to go somewhere with a good organization.  I think he'll be happy taking the Brady discount.  I think if he does depart New England, there are very few destinations he'd accept.


If Ron wants him he will come here. It’s his last big payday.

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