FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[wit33]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, that its Haskins' job.  They would be nuts IMO to at least not give it a full go this season.  Alex is on the tail end of his career coupled with coming off of a horrific injury to say the least.  Kyle Allen was an UDFA who had a horrendous spell of games towards the end of last year.

 

You got to ride Haskins and see what he has this year.

Riveras a dude/coach that appears wired in way to be 100% organic and authentic when speaking to the team and if the best QB isn’t Haskins, then he won’t be the starter. 
 

Smith is coming lol Whether we all like it or not, especially us fans like to project the next 5-10 years. All of what Rivera talks about at the QB spot is what Smith is elite at. I’m seeing a connection. 
 

Full disclosure, I much rather have Haskins prove to be the better QB! 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Riveras a dude/coach that appears wired in way to be 100% organic and authentic when speaking to the team and if the best QB isn’t Haskins, then he won’t be the starter. 
 

Smith is coming lol Whether we all like it or not, especially us fans like to project the next 5-10 years. All of what Rivera talks about at the QB spot is what Smith is elite at. I’m seeing a connection. 
 

Full disclosure, I much rather have Haskins prove to be the better QB! 

 

Love Alex's current story.  I'd put money that it will be a movie someday.  There were a couple of dudes on the Alex Smith thread back in the day (not you) who were just smitten by the dude and considering I liked and not loved him as a player and thought he got off to a  "meh" start here, I got dubbed by them as a critic.  😀  Even though, i was the dude more than anyone on that thread from the jump posting clips about what a great person Alex was including a cool video series about him which I posted every clip.  I also sold the idea that the dude deserved another year to master the system and not to be judged exclusively on that one season.   I thought it was telling that Cooley on the radio once shared that even Alex didn't think he was playing that hot and Alex told that to him directly.  And yeah I do think the 6-4 record (it should have been 5-5 but they got very lucky in Tampa) was overplayed with him getting too much credit for it but don't feel like relitigating all of that. 

 

But that was two years ago.  Now the dude is 36.  And I valued his legs and mobility and am not sure about that anymore.  I love the idea though of having him on the roster.  He's classy, likeable and a leader.    He works like a maniac.  And i think all of that would help push Haskins just like Mahomes credits Alex for helping him in KC.  Not saying Haskins is Mahomes.  But I do think there is some apples to apples comparisons to the KC situation to here.  Haskins IMO is the more talented QB at this stage of their careers versus Alex.  If we are going to reach a SB soon, I think we'd have no shot with Alex.  I do think if Haskins reaches his potential, I think we have a shot at it. 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Alex is here to be a mentor and a backup. If Haskins stinks, you let him stink hard and get in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes. 

[arftech]

8 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Alex is here to be a mentor and a backup. If Haskins stinks, you let him stink hard and get in the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes. 

Or the Justin Fields sweepstakes.

[wit33]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Love Alex's current story.  I'd put money that it will be a movie someday.  There were a couple of dudes on the Alex Smith thread back in the day (not you) who were just smitten by the dude and considering I liked and not loved him as a player and thought he got off to a  "meh" start here, I got dubbed by them as a critic.

 

Smitten with another man isn’t the term I’d use, but I valued his intangibles greatly and was a staunch defender of his overall contributions to the team’s ability to compete on both sides of the ball. I’m also an individual who values being in the playoff hunt later in the year and it isn’t Super Bowl or bust each season for me, so a QB like Alex was fits right in with me lol. 
 

We are both on side of hoping Haskins wins the job. I don’t agree on the upside potential being higher for Haskins, due to the respect I have for Smith being a viable starting QB and having a winning record over each year of his last 7 seasons of starting.
 

I’d love for Haskins to reach Smith/Cousins type level on his rookie deal, that’d be some great value and ceiling potential for the team. 
 

 

[LD0506]

I am liking the big picture aspect in that Rivera is the coach we need now, and he allows Alex to share what he does with Haskins, who is given the environment he needs to flourish which earns him some respect of the line etc., etc. and so on.

 

They are genuinely building something different here, something we haven't had for a loonnnggg time and for some it is just too hard to even dare to hope. I get that. But RR doesn't care what people are afraid of, he is intent and intense and all in, for all of us.

 

We are going to see what DH has, good or bad, longterm or who's next?, but there isn't going to be that storm of excuses after the fact that we have become used to for twenty years.

 

Sometimes you just have to sit back and remind yourself, this is the rough draft, they are just barely getting started.

 

One of the great universal constants applies here, respect is earned.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Smitten with another man isn’t the term I’d use, but I valued his intangibles greatly and was a staunch defender of his overall contributions to the team’s ability to compete on both sides of the ball.

 

I don't mean smitten literally.  But anyway I flat out said I wasn't referring to you with the smitten stuff.  There were a couple on that thread, one who followed his fandom from KC to here because they liked him that much who saw him as somewhat untouchable.  That's fine.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I liked the dude but I didn't see him as a savior and quickly discovered what some of his critics in KC said about him which was great person but he wasn't a great QB and you aren't winning a SB with him.   It wasn't easy to have a "stay medium" nuanced conversation on that thread.  But purely as a dude, probably my favorite QB in all my years following the team even before the injury. 

 

15 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I’d love for Haskins to reach Smith/Cousins type level on his rookie deal, that’d be some great value and ceiling potential for the team. 
 

 

We aren't at the stage IMO of wondering about Haskins contract or even defining what kind of QB he is, yet.  But yeah to your point, I am hoping his play is at least two pegs higher than Alex and a peg higher than Kirk.   I am not saying he will be.  But my hopes run higher than them as the high mark here. 

 

The rest isn't directed to you.  But just sharing my thoughts.   I want a SB. I know we all do.  And I get beggars can't be choosers.  But...

 

 I really don't think this team can survive (as to having a reasonable number of fans left) anymore that the peak of Dan's era is to be at best marginally better than 8-8.  I am hoping Dwayne can do better than that.  I think this fanbase will die even more if the best we can do is be good here and there but never great. I don't think it will be easy to sell this franchise anymore as a one that will on occasion sneak into the playoffs but is no threat in the playoffs.

 

It can't be for perpetuity that other organizations get the Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton (at their peaks) but we just don't roll that way.  Take some medium level success and enjoy what you got but it's better than being crappy.

 

As Rivera said to his team yesterday, he wants a SB.  I've appreciated as much as anyone the rise from being a bad team to mediocre for 2015,2016, and parts of 2017 but if that's the new version of our glory years, then yuck.  I enjoyed it all at the time but I was hoping that it showed a team on the verge not their peak. 

 

I think the whole we were 6-4 stuff in 2018 and then we got struck by bad luck brings home how pathetic this team has become that its something to celebrate when we have a streak of fleeting mild success during the season.  I recall that season how when we played good teams we were smoked.  Only difference was against GB against a severely hobbled Rodgers.  We've had other seasons like that, too. 

 

We've had our share of 6-3's, 6-4's heck even 6-2's over the years for spots of these seasons.  Heck I recall in 2017 all the hey we killed the Raiders and almost beat KC.  And we basked in that some.  We got really hot for a spell in 2016 including the MNF whipping of GB and Dan dancing in the owners box.  Fun at the time.  But in retrospect, I think the fact that we celebrate these sort of mild successes is kind of pathetic considered what this franchise once was.  Granted I didn't feel that way at the time but again I thought the team might be on the verge not peaking. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thomas, interesting, that's  wrinkle, as for throwing defenses off

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanguard]

Hmmmm.  So Haskins did pretty well today.

[HTTRDynasty]

EDIT: Wrong thread.

[skinzplay]

Over time, the Zampese-Turner combo will be so doggone good for Haskins. I'm glad he's finally getting some solid coaching.

 

Any recent news from LA beat writers that our former OC was really the one responsible for designing the new stadium out there, for re-inspiring Boy Wonder, and for the sun setting in the west?

[Going Commando]

I'm so glad Dwayne Haskins is good at football again.

[volsmet]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:35 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Do you have a clip that shows more of that rep than the one second between the hashes view from 30 yards back?  Otherwise you're trolling because you can't see a thing from that view beyond Stroman breaking underneath and playing the ball.

This guy. Yeah, I’m trolling, sport. 
 

What I do have is a particular set of skills that allow me to recognize atrocious mechanics & an atrocious read without the need for multiple views, mr forumville.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm so glad Dwayne Haskins is good at football again.

I enjoyed your role in the wizard of Oz.

 

[volsmet]

Haskins drastically over rotates on his 2nd read, leaving himself without the window this throw requires, and he’s forced to try and improvise a lob into the middle of the field, in the red zone, which is never taught & should only be attempted if you’re certain your guy is the only guy who can make the grab. Haskins freezes a defender with his hips, rather than his eyes, and he’s out of sync, which should get him off the route he throws, but he attempts to create a window that simply isn’t there. It’s a mistake young QBs make, it’s an atrocious play, it’s one you just can’t make on game day, but it happens in practice.
 

Haskins needs to set here (1), but he’s still opening up; he’s selling 41 with his hips and eyes rather than just his eyes, & that’s where the play begins to break down. Over rotated, Haskins has frozen 41, but left himself without the ability to sync up his body with the window a completion on this pass requires. Haskins sinks & opens his hips needing to compensate for being over rotated & losing the window that route is designed to be thrown in.

 

Haskins has committed to an option that he should have moved on from & lobs a lazy ball into the middle of the field, in the red zone, for an easy int. 
 

Objectively, an awful play. It means nothing on its own. It’s just a rep. 
 

 

[Conn]

I cannot handle a steve and volsmet feud. I forbid it! 

[Xameil]

8 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I cannot handle a steve and volsmet feud. I forbid it! 

Shhhhh...I love reading feuds when I'm not a part of them..

 

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Objectively, an awful play. It means nothing on its own. It’s just a rep.

 

So who is 41 even covering?  What was the first read of the play?

[Panninho]

 

 

 

Must have been quite the play

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Sounds like Dwayne had his best practice by far.

[Panninho]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise made this comment earlier, in order for the team to get out of the perpetual 8-8 ceiling, they need a QB who's better than average.  I completely agree.  I want a SB.  Bruce wanted 9-7, sneak into the playoffs, because he could sell progress and keep farting around his way for another year, wash/rinse/repeat.  

 

I think Haskins has the talent to be a SB contending QB.  Will he?  Don't know.  But he has the physical makeup and the competitiveness to do it.  From there, it's about work ethic, practice, reps, and growth. And clearly having the team around him to do it.  Also, he was drafted into absolutely the worst situation he could have been drafted into last year, and he's in maybe the best situation he could hope for this year. So, that's something.

 

If we leave the FO aside for a minute, a lot of on-field success, and getting teams to SBs, falls to the HC and the QB.  It's a Coach/QB league.  So, I went back and looked at the last 10 coach/QB combos who competed in the SB.  And asked myself, "self, how would Rivera/Haskins stack up if Haskins can get to "very good but not great."  

 

Haskins is not going to be Brady, Peyton Manning or Brees.  But he could be Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, Joe Flaco.  One of those won a SB, the other 2 played in it.  (And Ryan would have won it if K. Shanahan wasn't a dope.)

 

Rivera isn't Belichick or Carroll.  But he's better than some on this list, and on par with others.  

 

If you look at the teams/coaches who have competed in the SB the last 10 years:

 

2019: Reid/Mahomes d. K. Shanahan/J. Garoppolo.  Mahomes is one of the top 3 QBs in the league, if not the best.  Haskins could absolutely be as good or better than Garoppolo. Reid has been one of my favorite coaches for a decade.  K. Shanahan is a real up and comer.  I put Rivera below Reid and close to Shanahan.  

2018: Bellichick/Brady d. McVay/Goff.  Brady is the GOAT.  Haskins could be as good as Goff for sure. Belichick is also the GOAT.  McVay is an up-and-comer.  I put Rivera behind BB, but on-par with McVay or slightly behind him.  

2017: Pederson/Foles d. Belichick/Brady.  I think Rivera is as good a coach as Pederson, and Haskins is better than Foles. (I'm going to stop commenting on BB/Brady from here on out.)

2016: Belichick/Brady d. Quinn/Ryan. Quinn is an idiot, Rivera is a better coach than Quinn.  And I think Haskins can be as good as Matt Ryan.  

2015: Kubiac/P. Manning d. Rivera/Newton.  I actually think Rivera is a better coach than Kubiac.  Newton did thins in 2015 that no QB can do.  Haskins probably can't touch that ceiling, just because he's a different type of player.  But he can get close.  However, P. Manning in this SB couldn't throw a ball more than 10 yards.  The defense won that SB hands down.

2014: Belichick/Brady d. Carroll/Wilson.  Ok, Rivera isn't as good a coach as either Belichick or Carroll (even though both are dirty cheaters) and Haskins doesn't have the ceiling of either Brady or Wilson.  Damn, this was a good game too.

2013: Carroll/Wilson d. Fox/P. Manning.  Rivera is a better coach than John Fox.  Haskins is not going to be as good as either Wilson or Peyton Manning.  

2012:John Harbaugh/Flacco d. Jim Harbaugh/Kaepernick.  John Harbaugh is one of my favorite coaches, even though he's a dick.  Rivera is probably better than Jim Harbaugh, and Haskins definitely can be as good as either QB. 

2011: Coughlin/E. Manning d. Belichick/Brady. Coughlin is a highly underrated coach.  Haskins can be as good as Eli.  I swear he can.  Eli put together 2 good off-seasons, and a bunch of yards, but was never really THAT good.  And that defense, man, that defense was something.  

2010: McCarthy/Rodgers d. Tomlin/Rothlisberger.  I think Tomlin and Rivera are basically the same guy.  Both are outstanding coaches.  I think Rivera is a better coach than McCarthy (and said as much in the "who should the 'Skins hire" threads when both of them were options for the job.)  Haskins isn't going to be Rodgers.  But could he be Roethlisberger?  Maybe.  Big Ben has been a hell of a good QB for a long time with multiple SBs.  Haskins might not ever be that good.  But he might be able to get close.   

 

So, I believe IF Haskins can develop and reach his potential, which to me is somewhere in that 7-15 range of QBs, he can get them to a QB.  There are plenty of 7-15 QBs on the list above.  There are some who are top 5, and then the inexplicable Nick Foles, and possibly Goff.  Who I don't think would register as a top 15 QB right now.