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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:


Totally agree. Got to explore that avenue in my opinion.

Moses has hit his ceiling and he's got nowhere to go but down. If we could sign Walford and try Scherff at RT i'd give it a try. If it doesn't work, then Scherff can walk after this year. 

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One of the issue is that, outside of Trent, we've basically sucked at drafting OL for the last decade. Scherff wasn't a "bad" pick, but IMO he hasn't lived up to his draft position for a Guard. Not that I expect late round OL to be great, but we've even been ****ty when it comes to mid round picks as well. Mid rounders who haven't panned out at all: LeRibeus, Gettis, Long, Kouandjio. Christian has looked meh so far but is still pretty young. Martin and Pierschbacher are obviously TBD. Really the only success we've had outside of Trent and Scherff is Moses in the 3rd and he's basically just a mediocre player who's barely good enough to start. I envy those teams who seem to find those 3rd and 4th round gems...that seems to be a sweet spot for OGs and TEs as well. 

 

 

Edited by mistertim
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18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

One of the issue is that, outside of Trent, we've basically sucked at drafting OL for the last decade. Scherff wasn't a "bad" pick, but IMO he hasn't lived up to his draft position for a Guard. Not that I expect late round OL to be great, but we've even been ****ty when it comes to mid round picks as well. Mid rounders who haven't panned out at all: LeRibeus, Gettis, Long, Kouandjio. Christian has looked meh so far but is still pretty young. Martin and Pierschbacher are obviously TBD. Really the only success we've had outside of Trent and Scherff is Moses in the 3rd and he's basically just a mediocre player who's barely good enough to start. I envy those teams who seem to find those 3rd and 4th round gems...that seems to be a sweet spot for OGs and TEs as well. 

 

 

I don't know if I 100% agree with that.  I see Wes Martin as good value at 131 and Chase at 199. Scherff at 5 is fine and Moses and Long were good starters. Reiter would have been our starting center if we didn't have so many tackle issues. We haven't really had any busts (pending Geron) which is pretty tough to do at OL. You look at say the Broncos, with Bolles, Sambrailo and Garcia all failing miserably, and the Vikings having their struggles despite having drafted OL high (top 2 or 3 picks) every year since 2015 and we're looking pretty saavy. 

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

One of the issue is that, outside of Trent, we've basically sucked at drafting OL for the last decade. Scherff wasn't a "bad" pick, but IMO he hasn't lived up to his draft position for a Guard. Not that I expect late round OL to be great, but we've even been ****ty when it comes to mid round picks as well. Mid rounders who haven't panned out at all: LeRibeus, Gettis, Long, Kouandjio. Christian has looked meh so far but is still pretty young. Martin and Pierschbacher are obviously TBD. Really the only success we've had outside of Trent and Scherff is Moses in the 3rd and he's basically just a mediocre player who's barely good enough to start. I envy those teams who seem to find those 3rd and 4th round gems...that seems to be a sweet spot for OGs and TEs as well. 

 

 

 

LeRibs was a baffling pick at the time.  He had weight and motivation issues in college...and then had the same with us.  He ended 2012 strong, had a streak of good games, but then came into 2013 out of shape.

 

Later picks generally fail, and OL is no exception.

 

I will say that Long was a decent pick.  And Moses was a great pick.  Odds of a 3rd rounder being a starter for 2 seasons are low (Long) and being a starter for what 5 or 6 seasons with Moses are rare.

 

Moses has provided consistency at RT for awhile now.  I'm betting he's not on the roster after this season (or he takes a pay cut) with the cap possibly decreasing, but just about every team in the league would pick Moses again at that spot if there's a draft do-over.

 

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5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think hindsight has born out that Scherff was a better pick than Williams.  Williams ended up being a bit of an underachiever and he got traded.  He made the Pro-bowl in 2016, but hasn't really reached that level of play again.  Scherff has been more consistent, and he's made three Probowls.

 

They're both interior linemen, so the position value is similar.  And we ended up getting a trio of stud interior DLs since passing on Williams for Scherff, such that we are very strong at the position today and in the meantime, Scherff panned out to become our best OL by far.  I definitely wouldn't trade Scherff for Williams right now.

Scherff is a better guard, but guard isn't a top 5 pick position in my opinion.  I'd prefer to take a chance on an interior DL over a guard.  That's my personal preference, and it's not everybody's.  Regardless of how things have turned out.

 

I really like Scherff, but I just find it really hard to spend the type of capital to get and retain a top guard, when there are guards who can play at a pretty good level.  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

You don't move a Pro Bowler to a position where he might be slightly above average. That's something this organization has done for years: playing guys at wrong positions and not optimizing the talent they do have.

 

A Scherff-Moses RG-RT combo is still one of the better ones in the NFL.

Scherff is good.  Moses is not a good combo with anybody at the moment.  He might have been a good option at a point in the past.

 

My point is it would be a good idea to at least see if Scherff could play at a pro-bowl level at RT, which would be a massive upgrade to Moses.  If he can't, you leave him where he is.  

 

With Williams and Flowers gone, you're trying to fill 2 holes at a minimum.  In an ideal world, you could leave Rouiller, Scherff and Moses just stay put where they are. But that is only good if Moses reverts to being a serviceable RT, and not a complete liability.  If he continues to play at the level he is playing at, then you basically have a 3rd hole you need to fill due to performance, not absence.  And if you have to fill that hole, if you can bump Scherff outside which is a harder spot to fill, and he performs at the same level, great.  Otherwise you leave him where he is and have to fill the RT spot.  

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21 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Honestly Offensive line will be the least of our problems this season, QB-TE & RB has the potential to be a total disaster this season and if that happens the O line will pack it in. 

I couldn't disagree with this more. Everything we do on offense will be contingent on the OL performing adequately. Guice has shown capable when healthy (which he still needs to show), AP has shown very little in slowing down. Love we don't know but with Barber and McAssaic we should be fine at RB. Very few teams have elite RB1 players and those that do, very few are legit contenders. RBBC is the way to go lately and we have enough capable talent for that not to be a weakness. Long gone are the days of Matt Jones and Robert Kelly holding down the fort. I'd say all 5 guys we currently have at the position are better than those two. TE may be an issue but if Sprinkle is the absolutely lowest of the low then we should be ok. Production from that position only really stood out last year because we didn't have much by way of WR talent and Haskins didn't have too many dump off options while he was still learning the speed of the game. Neither AP nor Guice are viable pass catching options which is why Chris Thompson was so important last year. I'm confident in Haskins this upcoming season not just because he showed me enough progression as the season went on and he got more comfortable, but because we brought in a variety of weapons to help. Gone are plugs like Brian Quick and Trey Quinn and instead we got Antonio Gibson and AGG. No camps will hurt so we may start slow but I anticipate the defensive line will be able to keep us in the early games as other teams will be dealing with the same chemistry struggles on offense.

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I mean...Ideally it would be awesome if we had a great group at every position but how many teams can say that? We're in a position to have a potentially dominant defensive line because we've spent so many high draft picks on it recently, but unfortunately that's at the expensive of other units. We've found a couple of later round gems like most teams, but you can only rely on finding those so much. If we'd drafted OL in the 1st round for several years in a row, OL would probably be the super strong group on our team, but at the expense of other units.

 

Most really good teams have either one dominant unit, or an elite QB with "decent" surrounding units. It's rarely both. 

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4 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Honestly Offensive line will be the least of our problems this season, QB-TE & RB has the potential to be a total disaster this season and if that happens the O line will pack it in. 

We are going to have to be pretty lucky not to have the worst oline in the league. We have 1 good starter pretty much. All the rest are bad or unproven.

 

te will prolly be a nightmare and qb could be bad but I like our backup Qb at least. Rb should be fine. We have a lot of options there.

Edited by sportjunkie07
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I wonder how much of Christian's subpar run blocking can be attributed to lack of competitiveness and aggression and how much can simply be attributed to lack of technique and functional strength. IMO technique and functional strength can obviously be improved with hard work and reps, but I'm not so sure the attitude thing can.

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It's wild the number of passive types we accidentally drafted with premium picks in a few year period:

 

1st--Josh Doctson

2nd--Sua Cravens

3rd--Matt Jones

3rd--Geron Christian

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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If you were to ask most NFL fans which of the rookie quarterbacks who started multiple games was the shakiest, I’d imagine a large majority would pick Haskins, who didn’t put up the most encouraging stat line. The Ohio State product averaged 6.7 yards per attempt and threw as many interceptions as he did touchdowns.

 

But the more you watch Haskins’ tape, the more optimistic you’ll be. The first thing that stands out is his arm talent. The dude can sling it. This is an incompletion but I’m in awe how strong this throw is despite Haskins not being able to finish his throwing motion with a defender right in his grill.

 

That big arm, along with Haskins’ understanding of where to place the ball in spots where only his receiver can catch it, should have led to more production, but he did not get a lot of help from his teammates.  Haskins had the biggest gap between Total Points per attempt — Sports Info Solutions’ proprietary stat that takes EPA and adjusts it based on a player’s individual contribution to a play — and EPA per attempt in the league. He led the rookie class in total points per attempt by a wide margin on clean pocket throws that traveled past the line of scrimmage.  Haskins was consistently forced to throw into tight windows but still avoided turnover-worthy plays at an elite rate, finishing with the fifth-lowest percentage according to PFF despite finishing second in Next Gen Stats’ aggressive throw percentage, which is the rate at which he threw to a receiver with less than a yard of separation. That’s where Haskins’ ball placement really helped.  Haskins’ biggest issue during his rookie campaign was his timing. The 22-year-old finished with the ninth-highest average time to throw, which led to a lot of sacks that could not be blamed on Washington’s offensive line. Haskins’ sack rate (12.7%) was two times higher than Case Keenum’s (5.7%). Holding onto the ball did not work out well for the rookie. His EPA per play dropped to -0.43 and he was consistently late on throws, allowing the defense to close in on the ball.  But I’m optimistic that he’ll figure that out as he gets more experience because in college when he mastered Ohio State’s playbook and there were flashes of him getting through his progressions in a hurry toward the end of the season.  Long-term outlook: Outside of the guy at the top of these rankings, Haskins is the one player who has a legitimate shot at developing into a star quarterback. It’s going to take a lot of work in the areas of concern I’ve covered here, but with that combination of arm strength and football acumen raises his ceiling considerably.
Edited by HTTRDynasty
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4 hours ago, mistertim said:

I wonder how much of Christian's subpar run blocking can be attributed to lack of competitiveness and aggression and how much can simply be attributed to lack of technique and functional strength. IMO technique and functional strength can obviously be improved with hard work and reps, but I'm not so sure the attitude thing can.

 

Yeah i don't know.  I posted this in part because I mentioned hearing different beat guys say this about Christian and someone responded saying its a red flag "if true".  It seemed like they wanted to see something in writing to that effect.  So when i stumbled on this today, I figured I post.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I’ve noticed Dwayne has been looking in better shape. Skinnier face and looks more lean, good for him. 

When we drafted him I always kinda thought he was one sandwich away from maybe being fat. 

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10 minutes ago, max21 said:

I’ve noticed Dwayne has been looking in better shape. Skinnier face and looks more lean, good for him. 

When we drafted him I always kinda thought he was one sandwich away from maybe being fat. 

 

I didn't really mind him as a Roethlisburger-type who could absorb hits. Of course it's better to have the foot quickness and smarts to not get hit at all. I like that this shows a dedication to football for a young guy who had questions in that category early on as a rookie, but what we need to see is how he picks up the playbook when the time comes to see the field, and all we have on that right now is Turner's assurance that it's going well, which is all we can expect. 

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3 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I didn't really mind him as a Roethlisburger-type who could absorb hits. Of course it's better to have the foot quickness and smarts to not get hit at all. I like that this shows a dedication to football for a young guy who had questions in that category early on as a rookie, but what we need to see is how he picks up the playbook when the time comes to see the field, and all we have on that right now is Turner's assurance that it's going well, which is all we can expect. 

 

IIRC In one of the Haskins interviews, maybe the one with JP Finlay, Haskins said he was doing well with getting the playbook down and it was easier this time around than last year. More of learning a new language than having to adjust to a higher level of complexity if that makes any sense. 

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3 hours ago, max21 said:

I’ve noticed Dwayne has been looking in better shape. Skinnier face and looks more lean, good for him. 

When we drafted him I always kinda thought he was one sandwich away from maybe being fat. 

 

I had some concerns too.   I suspect him being in this top of shape will help his game.  He was already a sneaky mobile for a dude his size, this obviously should enhance that even more.

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I may be in the minority here but I think Haskins is going to have a good year and surprise a lot of people. I think the previous coaching staff was too stubborn to change things to fit the player. They tried to make the player fit the system. I think the new staff will be different.

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Chiming in -- as many of us know, dropping 10-15# is easy when you're dropping party fat (you know how much smaller bacon gets when the white stuff disappears?) -- but to get down to 7% body fat with soshul distansing (I hate that stupid-axe term) and all, that shows you're willing to put time and work in.  I'm excited to see what happens.

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  • TK changed the title to FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State
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