Renegade7 Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Why would you expect a rookie QB who ran a simple college system for only 13 games to come in and absorb enough of an NFL WCO in a week or so of practice to outshine two veteran NFL QBs who have managed to start a lot of games in college and in their 7-8 year NFL careers? As for me, I've been hoping Keenum would come in and clearly outshine McCoy so the Skins would have a significantly better option than McCoy this season. McCoy seems like a good guy but I've seen him play and while serviceable he has just seemed serviceable and unfortunately being smallish has gotten hurt. I am still hoping Keenum decisively pulls ahead of the pack. Back to Haskins, I don't want single you out and bust on you because it is obvious that most of the fans here fail to appreciate the most important capability an NFL brings to the field is knowledge and a mind quick enough to process the field quickly, their arms are of secondary importance. Haskins may have a much stronger arm than either McCoy or Keenum but they have have been in the NFL running variants of a WCO since Haskins was in junior high so they have an enormous advantage at this stage. Cam Newton figured it out and did jus fine. If he looks dangerously unprepared in preseason and ends up third string, that's not a good thing for a #15 pick. And keep in mind, Colt and Case are career backups, it's not like we talking about Haskins taking Bradys job while hes still winning superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Cam Newton figured it out and did jus fine. If he looks dangerously unprepared in preseason and ends up third string, that's not a good thing for a #15 pick. And keep in mind, Colt and Case are career backups, it's not like we talking about Haskins taking Bradys job while hes still winning superbowls. Cam Newton? Why would you compare Cam Newton to Haskins? Newton is a highly athletic dual threat QB who could compensate for his pocket shortcomings with his legs for the first couple of years until he developed a command of the offense. Haskins doesn't have Newtons legs, by all reports Haskins is comparatively slow of foot who didn't run much in college so he will really need time to master the offense before he can become effective and not a sitting duck. At least that is what I expect, we shall see. I don't want to see Haskins play until the coaches believe he is the most able QB on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Cam Newton? Why would you compare Cam Newton to Haskins? Newton is a highly athletic dual threat QB who could compensate for his pocket shortcomings with his legs for the first couple of years until he developed a command of the offense. Haskins doesn't have Newtons legs, by all reports Haskins is comparatively slow of foot who didn't run much in college so he will really need time to master the offense before he can become effective and not a sitting duck. At least that is what I expect, we shall see. I don't want to see Haskins play until the coaches believe he is the most able QB on the roster. They wouldnt of put him out there if he couldn't run an NFL passing offense, defenses would've jus loaded the box and kept him in the pocket. It's not that Haskins is too slow or doesnt run, he is mobile enough to extend plays, theres plenty of film on that, hes not a pure pocket passer aka sitting duck. I'll give you that hes not proven to be Cam level mobile, but if he wasnt mobile at all, Gruden wouldnt be practicing RPOs with him the way he does. I'd argue it's going to take longer for him to become the most able QB on the roster if he doesnt get gameplay experience, that's what's missing more then anything else. Unless we feel hes going to cost us games, he should be out there getting reps to hurry up his development. Doing this "the right way" could take years, hes not a project, hes a first round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmiii Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 College does not prepare QB's for pro football. Every QB evolves at their own pace. By all accounts Haskins is progressing well; getting better everyday. I think it is great that he may have the opportunity to continue to prepare behind Keenum or McCoy. I read your reigning league MVP couldn't call a complete play in the huddle when his rookie season started. This years #1 pick got the luxury of going to a pro team that runs his college program. I still expect him to struggle because of the lack of talent around him. Haskins is going to be the man when his time comes, the more time he has this season to get ready the better he will be when called. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 So what are the positives about Haskins so far? And what are the negatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoggingGod Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 God you guys should have seen the reports of Mahomes in his first two offseasons lol. Everyone said he looked lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said: So what are the positives about Haskins so far? And what are the negatives? Judging by what I saw Positives: Laser of an arm. Great velocity. Super fast release when he makes up his mind. Can make some beauty type bucket throws especially in between the numbers. I watched him interact and talk with fans including my kids -- he comes off like a super nice dude. I love how he celebrates catches with receivers, comes off like a likable leader type. So when people talk up his talent -- I am on board with that. He's oozing it. Great work ethic according to most. Negatives: Inconsistent accuracy. Jay said the dude can be on and then once in awhile oddly he's wildly off or something like that. I saw that in practice. IMO in the Friday practice I watched the week before the dude looked like a borderline scrub -- he was missing easy throws in the flat repeatedly among other things. 2 days later in practice he looked like a pro bowler nailing those same type of throws and more. In The Middle: his release slows down significantly when he has pressure -- you can see him thinking. I am gathering that's natural because he's learning a system so hopefully once he mastered the system we will see that quick release. I say the idea that he moves around faster in the pocket than he looks on tape as some beat guys suggested -- to my eyes that's BS or they had really low expectations on that front. He didn't look ultra slow moving laterally but he didn't look to me swift either. He looked faster though than I thought he would be when he just takes off straight with the ball for a gain. IMO he puts nice touch on intermediate throws and makes some beauty throws on that front. On the deep ball he reminds me of Jason Campbell some but in a different way. Campbell like Haskins IMO had plenty of arm to be a good deep ball thrower but it didn't come together for him. Campbell to me didn't have enough arc or air on the deep balls even though he could get it far. Haskins has plenty of arm like Campbell did but IMO he has the opposite issue where he puts too much touch on the ball and they fall short of the target. I am not saying Haskins won't be a good deep thrower but IMO he has to work on it. As for what others are saying: Just caught up with some Hoffman, Finlay, Russell segments -- and recalling some national ones. Listening to all of it, I'd say its a combination of this: Positives: They love the arm, makes throws the other QB's can't make. Good guy. He's determined to be excellent -- works hard. They agree with me that he killed it in practice last Sunday. Negatives-Mixed: we are sort of getting a mix message about whether he's progressing on a good pace. Multiple reporters said they were hinted to privately that Haskins is a bit behind what they expected and is taking more time to learn the offense than they expected. But to contradict that some -- they are also saying the coaches are seeing progress, he doesn't repeat mistakes much and think it will click for Haskins eventually. Most saying even though Colt and Keenum aren't lighting up camp -- Haskins is still not close to either one and right now doesn't look like a real threat to start the season. He's taking some time to learn the plays and command the huddle among other things. They've gone before training camp from saying Haskins has a shot to start the season to he has almost no shot. However, I am sure that attitude can change on a dime if Haskins heats up in practice or in a preseason game, etc. My take on Haskins watching him up close hasn't changed much from my prior thoughts. What I saw reminded me of what i thought when I reviewed him on the draft thread. I don't think he's a slam dunk franchise QB for reasons I've stated before. But he certainly could be a franchise QB. I liked his personality after camp more than I did previously. I didn't have a handle on his personality before. So I am rooting for him hard. I think our only chance escaping this run of mediocrity is Haskins emerging as the guy. I have little faith that Keenum or Colt is the ticket to make this team a perennial winner. I don't think Haskins is a slam dunk answer either -- but he's got the talent to emerge as the guy. I'd be surprised if he emerges though this season. I think it would be season 2. I agree with the beat guys that he needs time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Listened to Chris Russell a bit more this morning, now Nick Ashooh. Russell suggested don't be shocked if we don't see Haskins in the middle of the season either based on what he is hearing. Personally, I am fine with that. But I'll say again (and this is from someone who isn't infatuated with Haskins but am intrigued by him) I think the beat guys might be overreacting a bit as to camp. Maybe Haskins gets hot for example this week? Who knows. Russell is suggesting that's what he's hearing from some in the building but to me -- he's a rookie and I think its natural for most to start slow. I am gathering what's driving the narrative is there was some thought that Haskins might end up the starter at the beginning of the season and it seems like that thought it out the window based on camp thus far. My take though on it is I didn't want Haskins starting the season anyway so I don't recall care. Haskins to me isn't a concern since he's a rookie, he's got the legitimate excuse of learning an offense and how to play in the NFL. Keenum and Colt to me are a different story. From what I've seen when I was there coupled with what I've read about camp since i left -- got some serious doubts about both veterans. One thing all three have in common is they throw a lot of picks in camp and that's happening with no real pass rush -- these guys aren't getting hit so you'd figure they'd (especially Colt who knows the system like the back of his hand) be at their best playing in that context then in real games. To me the good news is the receivers I think look better than expected. I think we got some potential good young ones. The RB position is loaded. But I do think O line potentially could be "meh" and Colt or Keenum could potentially be "meh'. I guess Keenum though deserves somewhat of a break since its a new system for him so maybe it comes with time for him. I am not a big Colt guy as a player -- though he seems like a great dude. If Colt ends up the man I think the ceiling for the team is 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 15 hours ago, evmiii said: College does not prepare QB's for pro football. Every QB evolves at their own pace. By all accounts Haskins is progressing well; getting better everyday. I think it is great that he may have the opportunity to continue to prepare behind Keenum or McCoy. I read your reigning league MVP couldn't call a complete play in the huddle when his rookie season started. This years #1 pick got the luxury of going to a pro team that runs his college program. I still expect him to struggle because of the lack of talent around him. Haskins is going to be the man when his time comes, the more time he has this season to get ready the better he will be when called. HTTR! I cannot agree with you because some college programs do prepare QBs for the NFL far better than others. Colleges that run pro-style offenses prepare quarterbacks for the NFL much better than those programs that run simple zone-read option style attacks. Cousins came into the NFL prepared for success in the NFL because Kirk spent 5 years and started 3 seasons running a pro-style attack. He publicly stated many of the Shanny WCO concepts were nearly identical to the system he ran at Michigan State. So even after far fewer practice reps during the summer and regular season, when called upon after the starter was injured Kirk was able to run Shanny's offense in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: One thing all three have in common is they throw a lot of picks in camp and that's happening with no real pass rush -- these guys aren't getting hit so you'd figure they'd (especially Colt who knows the system like the back of his hand) be at their best playing in that context then in real games. While all the QB's all have their advantages, they each have their disadvantages, which could be causing the INT's. Obviously Keenum and Haskins don't know the offense. And while Colt does know the offense, he hasn't gotten a lot of reps in a very long time. So that could be a factor. Also, part of it could be our secondary is really ballin. Another thing, usually they say the defense is ahead of the offense. And that always seems to be true with us. This post is basically coming up with excuses for all the INT's. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Soon, not soon enough for me but soon, we are going to get a look at these guys, hopefully, at least 1 of them will be able to perform. I have the highest hope for Keenum sight unseen because he had that special year with the Vikings. Obviously, the Skins have nothing like Diggs and Thielen to throw to but all the same he has at least 1 really good year in the NFL so maybe he can have another in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghedrick Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 My hope is the QBs are having a rough camp because the defense is just that good.It has been mentioned that Norman is looking fantastic. Monroe might be the most improve player on the team.Dunbar is looking good.Jimmy Morland has the makings of being an absolute ballhawk (Asante Samuel look a like.)Monte seems to be back on track and Landon is a top 5 Safety in the game.The d-line taking the next step from being above average to dominate.The mlb are clearing better than advertised evidence of this is cutting Mason right before camp. Maybe the games will be easy for the QBs after facing these guys everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Uh...at least it wasn't an INT ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Can we still grab Rosen for a 2nd 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: While all the QB's all have their advantages, they each have their disadvantages, which could be causing the INT's. Obviously Keenum and Haskins don't know the offense. And while Colt does know the offense, he hasn't gotten a lot of reps in a very long time. So that could be a factor. Also, part of it could be our secondary is really ballin. Another thing, usually they say the defense is ahead of the offense. And that always seems to be true with us. This post is basically coming up with excuses for all the INT's. 😉 Also could be the defense is familiar with the offense. Colt's INT-TD is his career is close to 1:1. If he ends up being the guy, then I think INTs come with the turf. Keenum was 18 TDs to 15 INTs last year but he had better TD to INT ratios previously so not as sure about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, volsmet said: Can we still grab Rosen for a 2nd 🤔 A 3rd would be ideal. He is starting to shine in FL as of yesterday so maybe Miami won't deal him at all. Things can go South for him in the pre-season. Will have to sit and watch how this unfolds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Uh...at least it wasn't an INT ? These kind of tweets are self serving and provide ZERO value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Richardson is very diplomatic but I think he managed to say very gracefully that Haskins is very raw, Keenum has a lot to learn and may not be the guy as I hope and Colt isn't very inspiring either as Richardson seemed to damn him with faint praise. Can't wait to see them play and assess them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, volsmet said: Can we still grab Rosen for a 2nd 🤔 Meh, reports out of Miami are that he's been struggling too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 RICHMOND — The quarterback play at Washington Redskins training camp has been sporadic; issues on the offensive line and newcomers at the position have led to inconsistent results. Another rough day by the QBs is where we begin our takeaways from Sunday: QBs struggle in two-minute period The two-minute period of a fairly serene Sunday practice was an absolute mess for the Redskins. Colt McCoy took the snaps with the first team, moved the offense into the red zone and promptly threw an interception to safety Landon Collins. Case Keenum was next, and he threw an interception to linebacker BJ Blunt in the end zone to end his series. The period ended for rookie Dwayne Haskins when he took a sack, but he also sailed a pass eight yards out of the back of the end zone on a high throw to wide receiver Jehu Chesson. Hopefully he was throwing it away. It was not a spectacular day for the quarterbacks during a light practice without pads following a physical, fully padded session Saturday. For Coach Jay Gruden, the evaluation continues. “They’ve all done some really good things, without a doubt, and they’ve all done some things that we’ve got to coach," he said. "That’s just the way it is at the quarterback position. Colt’s got the most experience in the system, but he still hasn’t played a whole lot. He hasn’t taken a lot of reps. . . . Case has all the reps, but he doesn’t have much experience in the system. . . . And obviously Dwayne is a rookie. All three of them have shown flashes of being really good and really productive, and all three have shown flashes of, ‘Hey, we’ve got to get better.’ ” Gruden said he hasn’t decided how the playing time will be divvied up when preseason games begin. The Redskins visit the Cleveland Browns on Thursday night, and Gruden said he might not use all three quarterbacks in that game. He could choose to divide the quarters or halves between two of the three players, then rotate them for the next game. The Redskins have been deliberate about how the quarterbacks rotate in practice; Keenum and McCoy seem to be getting a few more first-team reps than Haskins. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/08/04/quarterbacks-have-rough-day-other-redskins-camp-takeaways/?utm_term=.e3e09e95ed97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Win on field goals and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 1 minute ago, bakedtater1 said: Win on field goals and defense. Unless Colt keeps throwing INTs in response to every turnover. Hopefully 3.4 yards and a cloud of dust can get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said: Win on field goals and defense. I don’t believe the offense will be that bad at all. Especially with play action. We’ll be a better running team than passing almost certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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