Next Coach?

[SkinsFTW]

With their obsession in being close, Dan and Bruce need to give up that golf fetish and start playing horseshoes, IMO.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

After turning down numerous opportunities to run other NFL franchises in recent years, league sources said Vikings esteemed assistant general manager George Paton is ready to leave the organization this winter if the right situation emerges. Paton remains on a short list of men considered the most attractive to other owners, along with Joe Douglas (Eagles), Will McClay (Cowboys) and Nick Caserio (Patriots).

Paton has been a finalist for several GM jobs in the past and has also withdrawn from consideration in numerous instances as well. A year ago he was seen as the only truly viable candidate for the Packers GM opening from outside that organization; the Vikings denied Green Bay permission to interview him. Paton has been with the Vikings for 12 seasons, and has very strong ties to general manager Rick Spielman, who he was also with in Chicago and Miami.

There has been a sense in recent years that Paton might not actually be willing to move on from Minnesota, given how many opportunities did not appeal to him, but sources close to the executive maintain that he is very open to taking over a franchise in 2019 and expect him to explore numerous opportunities. There could be upwards of a half-dozen GM changes in the NFL, depending on how certain clubs fare in the final month of the season.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/george-paton-ready-to-leave-vikings-will-again-be-among-most-coveted-gm-candidates/

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

But I’d imagine being within the inner circle of the NFL you’d have access to who is talked about as a potential GM and what they’ve done recently. Obviously, you’d start with the more consistently successful franchises and try to poach from there. See which area scouts have had the best results with draft picks that came from the area they scouted. Etc... 

 

The scary thing is, with Dan, there’s more talk than anything else that he’s considered an introvert, isolated even within the inner circle of the owners, so he’s likely behind even on that.

 

I think you're exactly right.  Let me add to this: here's another problem: Not only is Dan an introvert and isolated, Dan has let Bruce basically represent him at owners meetings, so even if there are names floating around, the likelihood is Bruce is hearing them, and clearly would dismiss them because he's not going to replace himself.

 

So, Dan has really put himself out on a desert island like Tom Hanks in Castaway, with only a soccer ball for company.  He's become so much of a recluse and delegated so much to Bruce, he might be so out of touch with goings on that he wouldn't even know who to talk to.  

 

He needs a lifeboat.  Well, first he needs to realize he's on the island with no water.  THEN he needs a lifeboat.  And to get that he needs to get somewhat lucky. Like Tom Hanks did when that piece of plastic blew up on shore and he could use it as a sail.  

 

I've said before that one of the reasons Dan just flat refuses to get rid of Bruce is he has absolutely no idea what's next.  He went to Bruce because the Allen family is Redskins royalty, which is also why he went to Gibbs.  There are no more Redskins Royalty left for him to turn to.  So I think he's just hunkered down and hoping like hell it works out because he has no idea where to turn next if he ditches Allen.  Add to that the stadium stuff, and the representations in league meetings, etc.  Bruce has his hands in so many pots that jettisoning Bruce probably means replacing him with multiple people.  And if he brought in a new GM, he'd probably want his own folks, so that means Doug, Kyle, and other folks in the organization Dan is comfortable with might be effected.  Dan seems to be terrified of being uncomfortable.  And Bruce/Doug/Kyle/Santos are known quantities and comfortable.  

 

Which is why I think it's more likely that he goes after a big name coach and gives that person full authority.  NOTE: I DON'T think that's the right thing to do.  I just think that's what he is going to try. Mostly because he knows who they are.  And he probably doesn't know who the hot GM candidates are.  

 

I see one of 3 scenarios playing out:

 

1. Callahan and company rip off 3  or 4 more wins, finish 6-10 or 7-9, but 6-5 or 7-4 since Callahan took over, and Dan just decides to stand pat.  This won't make any fans happy, Dan will know this, but he'll be banking on "if we win, they'll come back. And (for the love of God) We're close."   This would be the absolute wrong thing to do, would be short sighted, and a move made in fear more than "attacking success." But I could see it.  It's the comfortable and easy decision to make. IF the 'Skins rip off 3 or 4 more wins.   Which is also somewhat unlikely, but the Eagles and Giants are REALLY bad, and the Cowboys might just go into free-fall.  So maybe? 

 

2. Dan successfully throws $100m at Meyer or Riley, and they take over everything for 10 years.  Like the Jon Gruden contract.  Riley has said he would never take the 'Skins job.  I'm not sure that if Jerrah offered him $8m/year for 5 years  ($40M) to be the HC ONLY (Jerrah aint firing himself as GM until he leaves Jerry World toes up) and Dan offered him $10m/year for 10 years and full control, could Riley really turn that down?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  I am not sure many people who would turn down an extra guaranteed $60M. 

 

In this scenario, who knows who the GM would be.  Whoever came in would get to pick their own personnel department, and there's no way of knowing who that might be.

 

3. (This to me seems the most likely)  Dan isn't willing to commit to the length or the amount of money it would take to pry one of the top candidates away from a better job.  He knows he has to jettison Bruce.  Bruce does them a solid and retires. (That solid probably comes with a behind the scenes golden parachute, but helps everybody save face.) He's 70.  He can move to the west coast and just blend into obscurity and enjoy the fortune he's stolen from Dan over the past 10 years.   They promote a GM from within, the three candidates would be Eric Schaffer, Doug Williams or Kyle Smith, and they give some personnel control to the next coach, who would be somebody like a Gregg Williams, Todd Bowles, Mike McCarthy, Rex Ryan type.  An outside shot they bring back Morocco Brown, who was here before, or maybe a Louis Riddick. 

 

The best scenario (which is what I would suggest and do), which is to hire a hot-shot up and coming GM candidate from one of the successful teams and turn the FO over to them and let them run the HC search I just don't see happening, even though it's the right thing to do.  I don't know if Dan knows who those people are, and even if he did, I'm not sure he could convince them to come here.  Especially because I don't think he'd be willing to pay top-dollar for an unproven FO person.  I think it's more likely he'd pay top dollar for a proven coach.  

 

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

I suspect Louis Riddick is on his radar Voice of Reason. 

 

Imagine Snyder thinking, we'll plug in an ESPN GM analyst who everybody likes and reap the benefits of good press from the national sports media.  Not my thinking but from a marketing perspective, I could see him doing that.  Meanwhile, Riddick has been super high on Haskins and critical of the way he's been brought along.  He even mentioned after the Monday night game this year "Dan Snyder has changed" which tells me he sat down with him.

 

Regardless of who the new GM is, IMHO I believe we need a "walk around coach" who steps in to different areas of the team to fix things and isn't worried about what the next play call should be.  A guy who could tweak a game plan during the game, revamp the conditioning program, get an analytics program in place, etc.  That's an experienced guy who's done it, been around good programs and not some dinosaur like Bill Callahan!

 

[profusion]

The whiz-kid offensive guru trend may have already peaked. Team McVay crashed to Earth in the SB against classic Belichick grind-it-out football and hasn't been able to get on track this year. Kid Shanahan is winning this year with something that resembles 1980s/90s football. The Chiefs have gotten back on track with defense.

 

I don't think Callahan or KOC are the answer. To me, the only way forward is for Dan to hire a Parcells/Belichick "god emperor" coach with total control over football operations and a contract that makes him essentially unfireable for several years... someone who can say no to Dan. Any other path is going to keep Dan in play as a decision maker, and we don't need that.

 

Is that likely? Hell no!

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

As I've been saying, it will be Callahan. Winning 2 in a row clinched it, unless he loses the last 4 in horrific, Bengals-like fashion.

 

And Bruce will be back too, because going 5-11 or 6-10 means we're THISCLOSE.

[TommyWilson]

31 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

As I've been saying, it will be Callahan. Winning 2 in a row clinched it, unless he loses the last 4 in horrific, Bengals-like fashion.

 

And Bruce will be back too, because going 5-11 or 6-10 means we're THISCLOSE.

This more than the draft pick situation is why I subconsciously dread winning.  We're going to be stuck with the same idiots for at least another few years 

[Skinsinparadise]

Overall, Washington is still a mess. The way the franchise is currently set up, it is still unlikely to develop Haskins properly. And a couple of good defensive performances don’t erase the fact that, on the whole, the team has yet to show it can consistently play to the level of its investment on that side of the ball.

Over the past two decades, the franchise has often tilted on the emotions of Snyder. If he’s upset, he destroys. But if he’s excited or hopeful, he has shown in recent years that he can overreact in the opposite manner and turn complacent when the situation calls for greater change. The owner is in evaluation mode, and the erosion of the fan base screams for him to do something dramatic. That’s why many are whispering about change. Let’s hope that Allen, who has mastered office politics (at least in this organization), cannot convince Snyder otherwise.

To hire the best coach, Washington needs a clean slate. No desirable candidate with options is going to take this job with Allen, even if he survives, having a questionable long-term future. It’s far more logical to rebuild the front office and bring in a reliable, ace talent evaluator and leader to implement a fresh plan.

 

...The Redskins need complete organizational alignment. They have to be willing to go one way and go big, even if they fail. In today’s NFL, the most successful organizations are doing it this way. Any vision requires a full-on commitment to a style, to a quarterback, to everything, from the top down. I’m assuming the franchise isn’t inclined to draft a replacement for Haskins; it should find a general manager or president whose plan to develop and build around Haskins inspires the most faith and then give him the power to choose the right coach and everyone else to make it work. Instead of enduring more of the front office’s rudimentary team building, find a leader who can move the franchise’s approach to the next level. The best executives now are highly active and use every mechanism available — draft, free agency, trades, player development, etc. — to build the most fluid rosters possible. It’s important to maintain a draft-based philosophy, but there’s also a fearlessness — and a natural feel for talent — required to do the job at the highest level.

 

Under Allen, the Redskins have been faking it, quite honestly. They do just enough to be interesting, to provide small windows of hope, and when their flimsy plan fails, they drift between awful and mediocre and start blaming each other in a warped attempt at justification.

It has to stop. In a season this bad, there is every reason for it to finally stop. But until Snyder makes the move by firing Allen or gently nudging him into retirement, no one will believe the owner has the desire or the proper insight into his own franchise to try to give the fans something better.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-redskins-are-finally-showing-signs-of-promise-thats-even-more-reason-to-let-bruce-allen-go/2019/12/01/b61aac30-146b-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

[actorguy1]

As much as i have bought into the "Redskins must lose out or else Bruce Allen will stay in his current role" storyline I cant help question why the last 5 games of the season is going to be the true measuring stick for Allen's tenure while completely ignoring the past 10 seasons of ineptitude. If this is the case we are truly lost at sea.

[skinzplay]

Riddick would be a terrible choice for GM, so I'm hoping Snyder doesn't go in that direction. As far as the next coach, it's gonna be tough because all of the likely openings will be far more desirable than being in Ashburn, especially if it's under the current Team President ---- Atlanta, Jets, Jax, Giants, Detroit.....maybe also the Browns.

 

I think David Shaw will be a good pro coach, if he wants to move back to the NFL.

[TommyWilson]

2 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

As much as i have bought into the "Redskins must lose out or else Bruce Allen will stay in his current role" storyline I cant help question why the last 5 games of the season is going to be the true measuring stick for Allen's tenure while completely ignoring the past 10 seasons of ineptitude. If this is the case we are truly lost at sea.

Oh, we're definitely lost at sea bro 

[PlayAction]

5 hours ago, profusion said:

The whiz-kid offensive guru trend may have already peaked. To me, the only way forward is for Dan to hire a Parcells/Belichick "god emperor" coach with total control over football operations and a contract that makes him essentially unfireable for several years... someone who can say no to Dan. Any other path is going to keep Dan in play as a decision maker, and we don't need that.

 

Is that likely? Hell no!

 

He hired God Emperor coaches in the past (Schottenheimer and Shanahan) and then found a way to undermine them or fire them outright.   Snyder needs to let the Tampa Bay contingent go and then see whether he has the replacement already in-house.  Unfortunately, Snyder has proven to be an extremely poor judge of talent.  If he had hired Beathard to help him find his first GM the trajectory of the franchise might have been completely different.  The Skins have had talent in the front office and assistant coaches but they've all gone on to bigger and better things.  So my hope is that he hires Casserly as a consultant in his GM search.  Casserly will know where to look for the up-and-coming GM.       

[skins4ever28]

is there absolutely any shot we could get harbaugh away from Michigan? 

[SkinsFTW]

14 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

 Casserly will know where to look for the up-and-coming GM.       

 

 

I was kinda with you until I read this one. Hilarious!

 

 

[profusion]

21 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

He hired God Emperor coaches in the past (Schottenheimer and Shanahan) and then found a way to undermine them or fire them outright.  

 

I'm with ya on hiring a real GM, but that's complete fantasy. The Parcells/Belichick model is slightly more likely to happen. Snyder is so toxic, that he'd have to write a huge check and give a longer contract than before. 

 

.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

I think the entire narrative of "Bruce will now convince Dan the Skins are close because they won some games" is 100% fan and media-driven, and in no way part of Dan's reality or decision-making. At least for this season. Only exception would be if the Skins were to miraculously end up winning the division this season...which, while a bit of fun to imagine and talk about this week, we all know is not even slightly gonna happen.

 

It's speculation I agree from the media since Dan doesn't talk so they are riding on history and gossip.  Bruce has lasted 10 years somehow in spite of their record.  But regardless obviously there is no way to know conversely that its "no way part of Dan's reality or decision making".    We don't know.    So we ride with our guts on it. 

[RWJ]

I think the Packers, Cowboys and Eagles beat us.  Giants game is up in the air.  Still with a 4-12 record IF the Skins beat the Giants, Allen and Co. along with Callahan and Manusky got to go.  Snyder thinks the fan's revolt is bad now if he keeps Allen and Co. after this season there will be less ticket sales and more sound coming from the fans.

[NoCalMike]

10 hours ago, profusion said:

The whiz-kid offensive guru trend may have already peaked. Team McVay crashed to Earth in the SB against classic Belichick grind-it-out football and hasn't been able to get on track this year. Kid Shanahan is winning this year with something that resembles 1980s/90s football.

 

Shanny vs. McVay is an interesting discussion.  Pedigree vs. Shiny New Object.  Shanahan was much more proven when he got his head coaching job. McVay was the shiny corvette sitting in the drive way begging you to take her for a spin. 

 

 

 

Just say no to a college coach making his rookie coaching debut with this team in 2020. That is probably the OPPOSITE of what is needed here. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Tonight, Seattle's Schottenheimer makes another strong case for getting a HC hire in the NFL next year.

[fordranger76]

I don't think the desirability factor is as bad as some think. Many of the teams that may be looking for a head coach just hired one recently. How many new coaches want to go to a team that fires a coach as quick as one changes under wear. How is that possibly a better future for someone with zero job security? That makes no sense to me.

[PlayAction]

13 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

I was kinda with you until I read this one. Hilarious!

 

 

 

I'm not saying to hire Casserly as the GM but would you rather Casserly help Snyder or no one?  I think Casserly is aware of the talent because he is respected in the NFL.  The alternative is Snyder deciding the management structure and personnel on a whim and we have seen how that turned out with his free agent acquisitions and draft picks.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's speculation I agree from the media since Dan doesn't talk so they are riding on history and gossip.  Bruce has lasted 10 years somehow in spite of their record.  But regardless obviously there is no way to know conversely that its "no way part of Dan's reality or decision making".    We don't know.    So we ride with our guts on it. 

 

I would think just using logic instead of gossip and speculation would lead most people to the same conclusion, though. Plus, the recent report/speculation/whatever that Dan is wanting to put Bruce under much heavier review after the season would point to this season being different from the rest in that regard...empty stadiums, abysmal on-field play, and tanking ticket sales won't be overcome by a 4-12 record and Bruce's smarm. If Snyder keeps Bruce on it will be for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with winning a few more games.

 

The stronger speculation would be to say Bruce will convince Snyder that he has the perfect plan for turning things around, specifically ticket sales, jersey sales, and attendance numbers. But that angle is rarely, if ever, mentioned among all the "If we win another game Bruce is gonna convince Dan we're 'close' " rhetoric. It just seems lazy to me. Regardless of what any of us think of Snyder, he sees everything we do. We don't see everything he sees, though. Which is why we (collectively) think he'll base his decisions on the stuff we fans see, and little else.

[Burgold]

50 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

I'm not saying to hire Casserly as the GM but would you rather Casserly help Snyder or no one?  I think Casserly is aware of the talent because he is respected in the NFL.  The alternative is Snyder deciding the management structure and personnel on a whim and we have seen how that turned out with his free agent acquisitions and draft picks.

I wouldn't be for Casserly, but I would be for Snyder hiring Casserly as a consultant to lead a search for the next GM. Charley does understand the position, what it entails, and the qualities useful for doing it well. I'm just not sure he has "it" anymore. In fact, other than Plan B and the scabs he was only so-so during the glory years.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I would think just using logic instead of gossip and speculation would lead most people to the same conclusion, though. Plus, the recent report/speculation/whatever that Dan is wanting to put Bruce under much heavier review after the season would point to this season being different from the rest in that regard...empty stadiums, abysmal on-field play, and tanking ticket sales won't be overcome by a 4-12 record and Bruce's smarm. If Snyder keeps Bruce on it will be for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with winning a few more games.

 

 

Bruce survived thus far longer than expected so did Vinny.  I can't recall what interview it was, I think it actually was Dan himself in a rare interview but I might be mis-recalling  and it was someone close to him but more or less what was said was Dan loved being around Vinny because he was the ever optimist about the prospects about the team.  My impression watching that interview years ago was that Dan likes the we are close narrative. 

 

Maybe every beat guy is wrong and Dan wasn't convinced last off season by Bruce that they were close.  But logic to me sure feels like Dan is easily convinced and is an easy mark on that front at least from his top henchman   As for me to think in Bruce's 10th year we should relax and just count on Dan not being convinced with a new narrative that we are close -- while is logical (and I recall you while having questions about Dan you also relatively speaking don't think as low about him than most so you might not agree with my next point which is guiding my thought) it begs for us to assume that Dan is a smart football man.  I don't think Dan is smart.  I used to think he was smart but just not football smart.  

 

Jay Glazer (who called the Beckham trade weeks in advance even though others were saying he wasn't on the market) saying that Dan won't get rid of Bruce, that's his wings and beer guy.  That makes sense to me.  Not based on logic but past is prologue.  Do I think it's conceivable that Dan finally rids himself of Bruce?  Sure.   Do I think its equally conceivable that they win a few games to end the season and Bruce convinces him it was all on Jay and the best is yet to come?  Yep.  I don't think either scenario is crazy. 

6 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

The stronger speculation would be to say Bruce will convince Snyder that he has the perfect plan for turning things around, specifically ticket sales, jersey sales, and attendance numbers. But that angle is rarely, if ever, mentioned among all the "If we win another game Bruce is gonna convince Dan we're 'close' " rhetoric. It just seems lazy to me. Regardless of what any of us think of Snyder, he sees everything we do. We don't see everything he sees, though. Which is why we (collectively) think he'll base his decisions on the stuff we fans see, and little else.

 

that's a lot of an easier sell when you win a few games because at least you'd have some narrative to build on of just you wait.  And that point goes without saying of course Bruce will sell that who wouldn't in his shoes? I bet he did the same last year, too, it's part of his job running the business operation.  The irony is the single biggest move IMO they can make to sell anything would be to fire Bruce.

[Bunny Kelly]

If Dan was to fire Bruce then who does he lean on to pick his replacement? He appointed Gibbs as a fan & Shanahan was the top HC in the NFL when he took over the Redskins, so exciting to someone not at the cutting edge of things, but has he ever been involved in making front office moves?

 

Dan seems like he has a small circle, would he turn to the likes of Cooley or someone else already there to point him in the direction of where to look.