Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  But as ex-agent Joel Corry mentioned from his own exchanges with Bruce -- Bruce hates to give into trade demands.  Making moves to prove a point versus making moves to win seems like a hallmark of Bruce/Dan.

 

My one hope is it appears that there might be some activity during the trading deadline and those teams will get some buzz.  This team has really little going for it at this stage of the season -- maybe Dan will get antsy to get some of his own buzz and he in turn pushes Bruce to make a deal.  Also we got the backdrop of the Nationals in the WS.  I genuinely think all that noise might get them off their posture.

 

I get a few people think this is just Bruce playing hard to get.  But most (granted not all ala that one report from Cleveland versus the others) of the noise indicates they aren't open for business.  If you are playing hard to get then you say you'd need to be blown away but if so you'd consider it.  That's sort of the reports from Jax about Ramsey.  It started with no, then it switched to we want two first round picks otherwise we won't trade him.   The reports on this one is mostly we aren't open for business.   But like I said I still see it as doable.  I was at the game today and it was pathetic between the no shows and the stadium overrun with SF fans.  You'd figure Dan has to have some breaking point?

  

I saw a write up yesterday that indicated that Bruce will likely deal TW in January and that TW may actually have more value in a trade if Bruce waits? The logic being that TW, by not reporting, will still have 2 years of contract remaining for the new team and that cap ramifications are better for the Skins by waiting? I don't know about that but it seems as though unless Bruce is blown away by an offer before the trade deadline, TW won't be playing anywhere this season. 

I have tried to look at this from Bruce's eyes and can only conclude that he is really pissed that TW waited until after the draft to decide he's holding out. Bruce is going to hammer TW as much as he can for screwing over the team. I get it....don't agree with it, but I get it. Bruce must be confident that he can do well in the offseason by dealing TW all while watching his team lose this season, ensuring a top 5 draft pick. I guess we'll see how this plays out.

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4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

In this case - it is clear this is not just about money. He no longer trusts the training or medical staff or the entire team. So he has quit, Have you never quit your job before because you were unhappy? He is not an indentured servant. He can quit his job at any time. The consequence is he doesn't get paid and he can accumulate fines.

 

 

Exactly, Trent can withhold his services, the FO can withhold pay. Leverage is subjective. The FO's asking price has not been met so Trent hasn't been traded, simple. This team is such a trash fire that arguing over Trent's trade value is like fleas arguing over a dead dog. This team/organization is not worth fretting about anymore.

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9 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

This team is such a trash fire that arguing over Trent's trade value is like fleas arguing over a dead dog. This team/organization is not worth fretting about anymore.

But it’s not though, considering the trash fire was constructed by the guy you are trusting to handle the Trent scenario.  It’s all part of the bland and stale soup.

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I just heard the full segment from Garafalo and he likewise thinks the Redskins would get less by waiting until the off season. 

 

Only dude on an island who thinks they’d get more is Standig who coincidentally is the most friendly reporter with Bruce and has gotten exclusives from him.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just heard the full segment from Garafalo and he likewise thinks the Redskins would get less by waiting until the off season. 

 

Only dude on an island who thinks they’d get more is Standig who coincidentally is the most friendly reporter with Bruce and has gotten exclusives from him.

I’d agree with Garafalo.  There is no logical reason to believe the offseason will render a greater return as teams have more options at their disposal.

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1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I saw a write up yesterday that indicated that Bruce will likely deal TW in January and that TW may actually have more value in a trade if Bruce waits? The logic being that TW, by not reporting, will still have 2 years of contract remaining for the new team and that cap ramifications are better for the Skins by waiting? I don't know about that but it seems as though unless Bruce is blown away by an offer before the trade deadline, TW won't be playing anywhere this season. 

I have tried to look at this from Bruce's eyes and can only conclude that he is really pissed that TW waited until after the draft to decide he's holding out. Bruce is going to hammer TW as much as he can for screwing over the team. I get it....don't agree with it, but I get it. Bruce must be confident that he can do well in the offseason by dealing TW all while watching his team lose this season, ensuring a top 5 draft pick. I guess we'll see how this plays out.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Redskins_first-round_draft_picks

 

Lol - During the last 50 years when the Redskins have had a top 5 pick it really has only worked out well in handful of cases long term - Samuels, S. Taylor (RIP & would have been great long term), maybe Scherff (who some people here want to get rid of) & - oh yeah - Trent Williams.  I feel pretty good about the recent drafts but not so good about how these players are subsequently coached & treated so I don't necessarily feel great about the high pick.  

 

When I see the phrase "Bruce must be confident" I am very, very afraid of any subsequent actions on that moron's part.

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10 hours ago, megared said:

It'd be awfully uncharacteristic of this team to go crazy in free agency.  And it'd totally negate the whole 'building a team through comp picks' strategy the team has been using. 

 

The level of planning, execution, foresight that would take, is not something our FO has demonstrated a competency for.  In the end, all it does is lower the ceiling on what a rebuild could accomplish.

 

When you have a potential franchise QB on a rookie contract, some of that goes out the window. Whether it's Haskins or a new rookie, you have to spend to put talent around him to up his chances at hitting. Especially with a new coach (and hopefully a new GM above him) who want to get there own guys in. 

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This forum has flipped, I’m now higher on Haskins & Scherff than the average ESer. What a time to be alive.

 

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11 minutes ago, volsmet said:

This forum has flipped, I’m now higher on Haskins & Scherff than the average ESer. What a time to be alive.

 


Same man, same. Exciting times.

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

When you have a potential franchise QB on a rookie contract, some of that goes out the window. Whether it's Haskins or a new rookie, you have to spend to put talent around him to up his chances at hitting. Especially with a new coach (and hopefully a new GM above him) who want to get there own guys in. 

 

Only if you have a franchise QB.  I think doing that would be a big risk based upon where Haskins is perceived to be now in his development.

 

Again, I seriously doubt the FO even has a multi-year plan as cohesive as you laid out.  We seem to only target cheaper replacements for guys we recently let go of, or top of the market guys the FO is enamored with.  

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decreasing the talent around players you want to keep does increase risk to them

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Redskin's future is repeating itself time and time again with Allen.  Look at his record and futures with Oakland and Tampa Bay.  

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Oct 29th is the trade deadline. I should be amazed that Trent Williams still hasn't been traded but this team routinely takes the worst case scenario route time and time again. So in the end this isn't surprising. We are 1-6, seriously what is there to prove by hanging onto him. He's not going to miraculously turn this ****-show into a winner. 

 

I've always thought that we should sit on a Trent trade until the right one came along and a team was desperate enough. Waiting until the offseason to trade him is such a moronic idea, other teams then have options. We would lose a ton of leverage in trade negotiations, How is it possible that a paid "professional" can constantly **** up, and avoid getting the axe? 

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On 10/20/2019 at 5:15 PM, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Honor his contract. A VERY Lucrative contract when he signed it. He's been paid VERY WELL for his services. The TEAM planned on having him and thus drafted accordingly. By most of the comments on here..he's been injured/not playing up to his pay check the last 2 years...ES words not mine

break agreements he signed and was paid UP FRONT? Where do you draw the line? which players are OK to break contracts. How can a team plan? If you think it's OK for all 53 players to abdicate on their contracts at their discretion, then you are the sucker not me.

 

It's not Oct 29 4PM yet either

 

Honor contracts? Is there an icon for laugh my clucking -- off? Give me a freaking break. That is beyond hysterical. The NFL is the one professional sports league where you are essentially guaranteed to have a drastically shortened life expectancy, on average, and suffer brain damage, on average in this country, and in addition to that, the contracts aren't guaranteed. The teams themselves NEVER honor the contracts, other than rookie deals. That's the whole point of "guaranteed money," it's the only piece of the deal that's actually in a players wallet, after he signs a given deal (and even then teams go after guaranteed money if you retire before your deals up, or act like an idiot in the offseason, pull a Fournette etc).

 

Nothing is more hilarious than pretending that ownership has the high ground when it comes to contracts. That's an epic, absurd, offing joke. There's literally nothing in these contracts that real other than the guaranteed money. Everything else can be scrapped, or have you already forgotten what happened to Ryan Grant, who signed a crazy deal with the Ravens, only for the Ravens to lie through their teeth, void out the deal, and kick him to the curb after the Raiders cut Crabtree a day or so later. That move cost Grant nearly 25 million in NFL funny money, money he has zero chance of ever recouping.

 

I mean come on man, you're beyond ridiculous. NFL teams have players over a barrel because of the weakness of the Players Union, and the fact that careers are so short, it's damn near impossible for players to ever turn the tables on teams. One of the few things they can do is simply refuse to play. It's just about the only ammo they have, and in a rare instance, this isn't a player lying about God being his agent (Sean Gilbert), this is a player who felt his life was put at risk by doctors who botched RGIII years ago, and then in just one four month stretch, botched his diagnosis, and handled the botched surgeries of both Alex Smith and Derrius Guice, and you're blaming the player. It's just so damn rich. So hilarious. Honor the contract? This is a two way straight, NO NFL TEAMS EVER HONOR CONTRACTS, heck even when they like the player, they're always beating down the door for players to restructure for cap reasons "for the good of the team," HA. 

 

If you want to hunt down players for being greedy and not caring about their teams, maybe sniff around baseball where players are borderline forcibly made by their own unions to go for the most money in a sport that offers virtually no long term health risk whatsoever. Leave NFL players alone. Lord knows their lives are short enough, and their post career's are often brutal, the least we can give them is no ---- for trying to get paid for the short term careers they have. 

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13 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Exactly, Trent can withhold his services, the FO can withhold pay. Leverage is subjective. The FO's asking price has not been met so Trent hasn't been traded, simple. This team is such a trash fire that arguing over Trent's trade value is like fleas arguing over a dead dog. This team/organization is not worth fretting about anymore.

Yes, so just sit on your asset, your most valuable asset, rather than get value for it, because off it, just make a point, which is pointless because nobody wants to come here in the first place. Who is he making the point to? Trent? He ain't coming back. Young players on the roster? They aren't resigning if they can avoid it? FA's? They aint coming here unless its for their final career big paycheck. The message he's trying to send has literally zero value whatsoever. Nobody that matters is listening, they're just laughing at how pathetic we are to spit in the face of the one asset that could actually help the team, draft picks, something we've been spitting on the value of ever since doofus Snyder bought the team. 

 

 

 

 

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I would think the draft pick(s) you net from trading Williams would be a lot more attractive to a new coach than having a disgruntled player to deal with...

 

Thing is, I just can’t assume that Allen’s mind even reaches that conclusion, let alone considers it.  Sigh.  

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No one will ever convince me that Dan believes now in rebuilding until I actually see for the first time in his whopping 20 year ownership that he is a seller as opposed to buyer of veterans for high draft picks.  Unless I am forgetting one, he's done it zero times.  And he's bought more veterans for draft picks than most teams whether its Vinny tenure or Bruce.  The only thing that do on rare occasion is dump their failing veterans for low draft picks. 

 

I said months ago the Trent situation is quite the test for Dan because it basically begs him to do a deal that in my view unsolicited he'd never entertain.  Yet, nothing.  And Trent isn't the only traceable asset.

 

If Dan is ever going to get over his delusion that he's always close along with his continued stubbornness and stupidity -- it would be now or never.  I am open to him though doing it, I think it's possible.   When he sees deals like that one below (which am guessing is just the start of deals before the trade deadline) and all the attention on the Nationals -- am guessing he might finally make a move. 

 

But if they don't do it.  And they lose to the Vikings and are 1-7.   I'll use the Junkies favorite term for Dan.  That is, he's a loser. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I wonder why a guy like Doug Williams sticks around in this front office? I guess cause he needs a job? I would like to hear his spin on this whole TW thing cause Doug is someone who has spoken somewhat honestly in the past. I'm embarrassed for Doug for being a part of Redskins mgmt.

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A 2nd rounder *for Sanu... nice get for Atl. There is no doubt NE will run a successful trick play with Sanu.

 

 

Edited by volsmet

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Don't these teams know just because they are off to a bad start doesn't mean this season is over.  Trading veterans for future assets  Yuck.    The future is always now. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

I wonder why a guy like Doug Williams sticks around in this front office? I guess cause he needs a job? I would like to hear his spin on this whole TW thing cause Doug is someone who has spoken somewhat honestly in the past. I'm embarrassed for Doug for being a part of Redskins mgmt.

I'm sure he's paid mightily here.  Can you imagine the OT rate for this guy, after all he's putting on his timecard?

 

All jokes aside, most of us saw the promotion of Doug Williams coming a mile away for various reasons that had nothing to do with his ability to put together a football team.  He doesn't have a great mentor to make it big in this business and I'd imagine being labeled a Bruce guy doesn't really help the resume.

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Don't understand the "trade Brandon Scherff" sentiment.

 

It is not the same situation as Trent.  Trent is in the twilight of his career, perhaps a a couple of seasons of elite level play left in him that is going to be getting his last big pay day, and he wants to do it on a winning team.

 

Scherff is still very young, playing at a high level and O-line is a position you absolutely need good, young players at if you want to build something.  

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