Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, EmirOfShmo said: I'm curious to see what next steps Pelosi has up her sleeve. Oh yes, I love watching the master at work. Her plan is working to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Oh yes, I love watching the master at work. Her plan is working to perfection. I find my faith sorely tested these days too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 32 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Oh yes, I love watching the master at work. Her plan is working to perfection. Wasn’t she the one that wanted to wait on impeachment, reportedly because a failed attempt would help Trump, and the left wing was howling at the moon about it? Looks like Pelosi’s mistake was listening to loud inexperience. My unqualified political opinion is that this was rushed into an easily foreseeable conclusion to satisfy people that wanted to resist more than anything else. This was rushed and now that the feel good portion is over, only the fallout remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 the american public has about a 5 second attention span, i really dont see how waiting would have changed anything i'm not ascribing blame to anyone besides them republicans/supporters who willingly bend over and spread cheeks for the dude currently in office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Destino said: Wasn’t she the one that wanted to wait on impeachment, reportedly because a failed attempt would help Trump, and the left wing was howling at the moon about it? Looks like Pelosi’s mistake was listening to loud inexperience. My unqualified political opinion is that this was rushed into an easily foreseeable conclusion to satisfy people that wanted to resist more than anything else. This was rushed and now that the feel good portion is over, only the fallout remains. Rushed how? The case was unequivocally made, even in the opinion of GOP senators. Now or later, it wouldn't have made a difference in how they voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Rushed how? The case was unequivocally made, even in the opinion of GOP senators. Now or later, it wouldn't have made a difference in how they voted. the facts of the case were made, not the case to impeach the obstruction part was clearly rushed and rendered of no import....which undermined the abuse of office one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, twa said: the facts of the case were made, not the case to impeach the obstruction part was clearly rushed and rendered of no import....which undermined the abuse of office one. The case to impeach hinges on GOP senators' view on what constitutes sufficient gravity to impeach this particular president. There was nothing that could have been done to further that case (being realistic, if GOP had the gumption to say that quid pro quo was not sufficient to impeach, there was no way any obstruction would have sufficed). House's job was to impeach and compile a record for the history books. Conviction was never going to happen. They at least did a good enough job to prevent the GOP from making it a factual dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, bearrock said: They at least did a good enough job to prevent the GOP from making it a factual dispute. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, twa said: I disagree Do you at least agree that no GOP senator would vote to convict even if they are convinced of the factual allegations? And that no where near enough senators would defect to make conviction a realistic possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 If we are operating under the assumption that a GOP led Senate was never going to convict & remove Trump under any circumstances, then I would say at least the Democrats did a decent job at getting the Republicans position to morph from "this is a lie, he didn't do it" to "Yeah he did it, you guys proved your case, but we still don't care" The Dems did their job, which was to bring the facts to light through investigations. The GOP simply followed through with their oath to be loyal to Trump over rule of law. They said it, in plain terms, and they stuck to it. I don't see how an acquittal under these circumstances moves the needle much for voters either way. I don't think very many voters were on the fence with who to vote for in November and are now waiting with bated breath on this Senate trial conclusion to make their last minute decision. If anything the Senate trial should do more to affect local races than the Presidential race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 57 minutes ago, bearrock said: They at least did a good enough job to prevent the GOP from making it a factual dispute. 55 minutes ago, twa said: I disagree I'm currently taking a class in Art Appreciation. (Useless class to satisfy a degree.) I think I'm going to just stand back and contemplate all the various nuances of irony involved in these posts. There's so many thoughts that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 the fact is both obstruction and quid pro quo are allowable to a degree and are common place in presidential actions. Contemplating is always valuab;e when time affords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, twa said: the fact is both obstruction and quid pro quo are allowable to a degree and are common place in presidential actions. This sounds as disingenuous and/or stupid as the GOP senators who try to make this same argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, Dan T. said: This sounds as disingenuous and/or stupid as the GOP senators who try to make this same argument. yet it is undeniably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dan T. said: This sounds as disingenuous and/or stupid as the GOP senators who try to make this same argument. They both have the same script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, twa said: yet it is undeniably true. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCB Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 It's a historical disgrace, one that has fundamentally transformed the nature of the separation of powers. None of this is one the Dems. There is no second-guessing of strategy that's appropriate, no hand-wringing about who managed which parts or what the timing was. The only thing that matters here is that the most despicable person ever to occupy the Oval has gotten a pass on his numerous, obvious, and without precedent wrongdoings. And an entire political party knew it, elected him, bent over for him, and ****ed the Constitution they so sanctimoniously claim to revere. That's it. It's not complicated in the slightest. It's coordinated corruption, and anyone who says otherwise is complicit. Stop belly-aching about the Dems - either in the impeachment or in the primary - and just effing VOTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, twa said: the facts of the case were made, not the case to impeach the obstruction part was clearly rushed and rendered of no import....which undermined the abuse of office one. There was nothing that could have made the case to impeach to the GOP senators. Particularly when they made it clear upfront the fix was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, justice98 said: There was nothing that could have made the case to impeach to the GOP senators. Particularly when they made it clear upfront the fix was in. Perhaps, but we will not know since they rushed it to claim the victory of impeaching him. Enjoy it while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 “Perhaps” lol fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, justice98 said: There was nothing that could have made the case to impeach to the GOP senators. Particularly when they made it clear upfront the fix was in. It reminded me of when Mitch said they were going to make Barack a one-term President...and the GOP proceeded to take "just say no" to a whole new level. This is just so much more monumentally worse, because crimes are being committed daily by the current administration and we're powerless to do anything about it. Like JCB said, we gotta vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Destino said: Wasn’t she the one that wanted to wait on impeachment, reportedly because a failed attempt would help Trump, and the left wing was howling at the moon about it? Looks like Pelosi’s mistake was listening to loud inexperience. My unqualified political opinion is that this was rushed into an easily foreseeable conclusion to satisfy people that wanted to resist more than anything else. This was rushed and now that the feel good portion is over, only the fallout remains. I see it both ways. With the Mueller probe we saw Trump, the GOP and their allies in the media control the narrative because it went on for several months with no leaks or info from Mueller's team except when they went to court. With the Ukraine scandal info was coming out fast and furious and GOP couldn't get ahead of it. So I see where Pelosi wanted to strike fast instead of waiting on the courts. If it goes on for months then Trump, the GOP and the pro-Trump media again could get ahead of it and turn it into "oh they're just picking on Trump." That's what happened with Mueller. That and Barr's summary. Now if stuff continues to come out, which I'm sure a lot will, then it could hurt the GOP for not calling witnesses. Although they're just going to blame House Dems for not being more thorough because...well politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Quote Iowa Senator Joni Ernst warned Sunday that Republicans would immediately push to impeach Joe Biden over his work in Ukraine as vice president if he win the White House. “I think this door of impeachable whatever has been opened,” Ernst said in an interview with Bloomberg News. “Joe Biden should be very careful what he’s asking for because, you know, we can have a situation where if it should ever be President Biden, that immediately, people, right the day after he would be elected would be saying, ‘Well, we’re going to impeach him.’” The grounds for impeachment, the first-term Republican said, would be “for being assigned to take on Ukrainian corruption yet turning a blind eye to Burisma because his son was on the board making over a million dollars a year.” President Barack Obama sent Biden to Ukraine on his behalf to fight corruption, including leading the push from the U.S. and western European powers to remove prosecutor general Viktor Shokin from office. When Shokin was fired in 2016, no congressional Republicans expressed concern about the move. Eventually, though, Shokin began to argue that he was fired because he was investigating Burisma and Biden wanted to protect his son, Hunter, who was on the company’s board. The claim has been debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Admiring the notion that the wrong that was committed, here, was the Dems failing to prove that a President engaging in a months-long conspiracy to divert government funds and leverage them to coerce a foreign government into providing aid for his reelection campaign was something that justifies invoking a constitutional clause which was written for that specific purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Ernst is really, really dumb luckily for her, that is a prerequisite to advance in her party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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