2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Mr. Sinister]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

What the hell is a SPARQ

 

Sounds like an elite Dystopian tactical unit filled with mages...

[PartyPosse]

20 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s freaking impressive. 

I have no idea if it means he can actually play.  But that’s really damn impressive.

 

Even though the bench is mostly useless except for picking up chicks. 
 

 

What? You’ve never heard of Bench Press Coverage?

[volsmet]

 

 

 

[volsmet]

 

 

 

Cam Gill pt2

 

Lg, Daishawn Dixon. #79
 

 

[volsmet]

 

[KDawg]

Watched the combine yesterday specifically to see Diggs. Watched for his smooth ball skills, quick hips and feet and good transitioned.

Stayed for Deion and Jamal Adams ripping Rich Eisen for saying, "Has a brother ever covered another brother in the NFL?" And Deion, knowing what Rich meant, still made it hilariously awkward for Eisen. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/02/tom-brady-bill-belichick-patriots-nfl-comb?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

COMBINE TAKEAWAYS

To wrap up the combine—and we had some big winners in Indy (Alabama WR Henry Ruggs, Wisconsin RB Jonathan Taylor, Clemson LB Isaiah Simmons, Iowa OT Tristan Wirfs, Louisville OT Mekhi Becton)—I wanted to give you a good look at how the guys in the building with the stopwatches around their next saw the week.

So I sent out a bunch of texts asking for guys’ biggest takeaways from Indy, be it from the field at Lucas Oil Stadium or elsewhere. Here’s what I got back.

 

AFC exec: “To me one story coming out is the athleticism and depth of tackles. You got top tier guys like Wirfs, [Jedrick] Wills, Becton, [Andrew] Thomas. Then [Ezra] Cleveland, and another tier of size and athletic ability. Some of these tackles are ready to go now, and play at a high level. Overall, best tackle class in quite a while in my opinion.”

 

NFC exec: “The thing that jumped out is the depth at WR. There’s more depth at OL than I thought, and corner depth may be 3–4 rounds deep. Schedule was strange and need to look at difference in results compared to years past to understand, not a lot of free agent news [because] everyone was waiting on CBA info and very few projected numbers thrown around.”

 

AFC GM: “The [inside linebacker] group has some speed in it. [Justin] Herbert looked good, [Jake] Fromm not so much. The RB group looked slow.”

 

NFC exec: LBs were fast, also DTs. Obviously, the OTs showed out. I didn’t meet too much on [free agents] due to the new schedule, heard some big numbers though.”

 

AFC exec: “Impressive tackle class—the size and athleticism of some these guys were off the charts. WR class was as advertised. Corners ran slower than expected. Haven’t seen all the official times yet, but the first times weren’t good for some guys.”

 

AFC GM: “My biggest takeaway is a lot of agents are shooting for the moon on average players. I think some are gonna be surprised at what their market truly is.”

 

AFC exec: “Edge class isn’t very deep, but interior pass rushers are more important and it’s a good class. More obvious, but it’s a rare free agent period, since it’s a starter market. Backups are trying to get signed ahead of it. Wide receiver is historically deep. Should be able to get a starter in round 3.”

 

NFC exec: “Good corner class. Lots of big guys that ran fast. Think almost 20 guys 4.49 or faster.”

 

AFC scouting director: “One thing that stands out is hearing some teams’ cap situations affecting their ability to keep some of their FA players.”

 

NFC scout: “Herbert looked good. Not much of an opinion on the other QBs that threw though. [Justin] Jefferson impresses me a lot. I think he’s a first-rounder, and going to be really good. Taylor had a great week and I think it’s not crazy to think he goes round 1. I didn’t think he got enough credit all year and people slept on his speed. Dobbins will have work cut out for him to pass him. And the top of the tackle group is ridiculous. Can see them all going top 15. The interior DL were much better than the edge players. The edge group was about the most unimpressive group I’ve seen since I’ve been going. LBs could all run. Really fast group and it’s good to see that because they have to do it. Safeties ran well too and i think there’s some good depth there.”

[Burgold]

If this is such an exceptional draft class, I wonder if it's  one of those rare times where it would be worth it to trade away future assets for a pick? Would you trade away a 2021 first for a 2020 second for example to snag a tackle?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Burgold not sure the 2nd is a place to take OT. The guys after the top 5/6 strike me as R3 guys. But if we trade Trent we may have that pick anyway. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig tdoay

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

If this is such an exceptional draft class, I wonder if it's  one of those rare times where it would be worth it to trade away future assets for a pick? Would you trade away a 2021 first for a 2020 second for example to snag a tackle? 

 

No.

[KillBill26]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

If this is such an exceptional draft class, I wonder if it's  one of those rare times where it would be worth it to trade away future assets for a pick? Would you trade away a 2021 first for a 2020 second for example to snag a tackle?

Not coming off a 3-13 season.  I know we all expect the skins to be better in 2020, but that first you are trading could be a top 5 pick in a draft where another wave of blue chippers are expected to be declaring.  

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

AFC exec: “To me one story coming out is the athleticism and depth of tackles. You got top tier guys like Wirfs, [Jedrick] Wills, Becton, [Andrew] Thomas. Then [Ezra] Cleveland, and another tier of size and athletic ability. Some of these tackles are ready to go now, and play at a high level. Overall, best tackle class in quite a while in my opinion.”

 

 

Agreed. This is a very good year for tackles. Which is not a good situation for the Redskins wanting to move Trent Williams. 

 

[KDawg]

The more I watch Quarterman, the more I start to think that it's not just homerism that makes me like him as a MIKE prospect.

 

He's not fast. 4.78 speed. But you can tell he studied opposing teams. He is very instinctual, gets to the right places, sheds blocks and tackles pretty well. He's athletic, just not fast.

 

Watch the pick at 3:04. Watch the whole video, really, but you can tell he's in the film room. The RT was cheating his stance, and given the formation he knew not to bail too fast because he had no immediate threats. So he sat and read the quarterback's eyes and picked off the pass.

 

 

I'm adding Quarterman to my man crush list. 

[Fresh8686]

My man Michael Ojemudia with a great combine for himself. He's a good zone corner, but people were unsure of him because that's all he really played and couldn't get a read on his athleticism. I was hoping he might be around in the 4th round, but I can see him going higher now. I need to find some more games of Reggie Robinson as well.
 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

 

 

Darnay Holmes. Early in the game he got tossed ass over tea kettle backwards. Then he came back a few plays later and showed he can play a little physical. Good hips, good speed, not afraid. He isn't going to tie anyone up and drive them to the ground. But he'll make an effort to wall off/grab a guy and hold on for dear life until the troops rally.

 

He has good ball instincts, too. Video shows a combo of man and zone. I like him. 

 

I think he'll be a third or a second rounder when its all said and done, though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

New PFF Mock

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-post-combine-mock-draft-redskins-go-with-tua-tagovailoa

 

1. CINCINNATI BENGALS – QB JOE BURROW, LSU

Burrow put the speculation to rest. He wants to go No. 1 overall. The only question that remains is how they’re going to keep Burrow upright behind that line? We’ll answer that one in our three-round mock.

 

2. WASHINGTON REDSKINS – QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA

Besides the obvious health asterisk here, let me explain: 

• Dwayne Haskins was not Ron Rivera’s guy, and the former personnel executive who drafted Haskins — Bruce Allen — is now gone. 

• Haskins earned a 66.6 passing grade as a rookie and 84.9 his lone year as the starter at Ohio State. The grades aren’t the end all be all, but you’d be hard-pressed to find a stat or favorable evaluation of Haskins’ rookie season.

• Ask any Cardinals fan whether they’d rather have Josh Rosen and Nick Bosa or Kyler Murray.

 

3. DETROIT LIONS – EDGE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE

If the Lions are going to come away from the first round with only one pick, this is the absolute dream scenario. Last year’s starter, Romeo Okwara, had fewer pressures his final two seasons at Notre Dame combined (40) than Young had in each of the past two seasons (75 and 56). That sounds like quite the upgrade.

 

4. NEW YORK GIANTS – OT MEKHI BECTON, LOUISVILLE

The Giants are committed to building through the trenches, and there’s no larger building block in the draft class… literally. The 6-foot-7, 364-pound Becton scooted his way to a 5.1 second 40-yard dash over the weekend. While he hasn’t been tested a ton in pass protection (73 true pass sets all year) and is raw as a prospect, Becton has rare physical tools to work with.

 

5. MIAMI DOLPHINS – QB JUSTIN HERBERT, OREGON

Miami doesn’t have to go QB if Tua is off the board at No. 2. That being said, Herbert has unsurprisingly aced the pre-draft process and admittedly offers a ton of clay to mold at the next level. An underrated aspect of his game is that he can legitimately add to any run game in the NFL — similar to what Josh Allen has done in Buffalo. Herbert ran a 4.68 40 in Indy and had excellent jumps (35.5-inch vertical and 10-foot-3 broad jump).

 

6. LOS ANGELES CHARGERS – LB ISAIAH SIMMONS, CLEMSON

Yes, it’s a selfish pick on my end, but who doesn’t want to see Derwin James paired up with bigger Derwin James? Instead of modern offenses giving defensive coordinators nightmares, it’s about time someone flipped the script. Adding another movable chess piece that runs a sub-4.4 40 would do just that.

 

7. CAROLINA PANTHERS – CB JEFFREY OKUDAH, OHIO STATE

Okudah might not have blazed the fastest 40 (4.48), but he proved how freakish he is by leading all corners in vertical (41-inch) and broad jump (11-foot-3). He ticked all the boxes in Indy, and falling all the way to seven would make him one of the steals of the draft.  

 

8. ARIZONA CARDINALS – OT TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA

The Cardinals can’t really go wrong here. All the top tackles proved to be excellent athletes — a must in Kliff Kingsbury’s scheme. Wirfs was on another level, though, as he posted the best vertical (36.5) and broad jump (10-foot-1) of any offensive lineman since 2003.

 

9. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS – DT DERRICK BROWN, AUBURN

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe Brown is as poor an athlete as he tested out at the Combine, where he put up the worst three-cone (8.22) of any defensive lineman in attendance. Bu there were concerns before Indy about whether he had enough juice to consistently affect the passing game, and those went unanswered with his testing. All that says is he may not be the can’t miss, top-five prospect some considered him to be before the draft. 

 

10. CLEVELAND BROWNS – OT JEDRICK WILLS, ALABAMA

The Browns are another team in a position where it’s going to be difficult to screw this up. While drafting solely for need is a fool’s errand, need and value are going to align perfectly for a number of teams because of how top-heavy this tackle class is. Wills didn’t put up quite the freakish combine that Tristan Wirfs did, but a 5.05 40 and 34.5-inch vertical at 312 pounds is pretty darn impressive.

 

11. NEW YORK JETS – OT ANDREW THOMAS, GEORGIA

While offensive line and wide receiver are both massive needs, the concept of positional scarcity weighs heavy for the Jets here. The tackle who they could feasibly draft at 48 overall won’t be close to as talented as Thomas, while the receiver they can likely get there could do a serviceable impersonation of Jerry Jeudy/Ceedee Lamb. Thomas’ 4.66 short shuttle and 7.58 three-cone were excellent times for a man his size, while his 36 ⅛-inch arms don’t hurt, either.

 

12. LAS VEGAS RAIDERS – WR JERRY JEUDY, ALABAMA

After an expected run on the top four offensive tackles in the draft, the Raiders are in an excellent spot to have one of the top two receivers in the draft slip to them. Jeudy’s times in Indy didn’t blow anybody away, but a 4.45 40 is plenty fast to be a consistent deep threat in the NFL. 

 

13. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS – WR CEEDEE LAMB, OKLAHOMA 

The Colts got to see firsthand what Ceedee would look like in Lucas Oil over the weekend, and the Oklahoma wideout didn’t disappoint. After some questioned how he’d test athletically, Lamb put up a 4.5 40 and was more than solid across the board. Lamb’s ability to win at the intermediate range would be massive if the rumors of Philip Rivers to Indy come true.

 

14. TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS – DT JAVON KINLAW, SOUTH CAROLINA

Kinlaw didn’t test at the Combine, but he did check in at a massive 6-foot-5, 324 pounds with 34 ⅞-inch arms and 10 ½-inch hands. Those are big boy numbers for PFF’s second-ranked defensive tackle. Pairing Kinlaw with Vita Vea would give the Bucs easily the most physically imposing defensive interior in the NFL.

 

15. DENVER BRONCOS – WR HENRY RUGGS, ALABAMA

Speed is rumored to be the top priority for the Broncos in the draft, and nobody has more of it than Ruggs. It’s not just speed, though — Ruggs has explosion as well with a 42-inch vertical and 10-foot-11 broad jump. That’s the ideal complement to Courtland Sutton.

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

New PFF Mock

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-pff-2020-post-combine-mock-draft-redskins-go-with-tua-tagovailoa

 

2. WASHINGTON REDSKINS – QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA

Besides the obvious health asterisk here, let me explain: 

• Dwayne Haskins was not Ron Rivera’s guy, and the former personnel executive who drafted Haskins — Bruce Allen — is now gone. 

• Haskins earned a 66.6 passing grade as a rookie and 84.9 his lone year as the starter at Ohio State. The grades aren’t the end all be all, but you’d be hard-pressed to find a stat or favorable evaluation of Haskins’ rookie season.

• Ask any Cardinals fan whether they’d rather have Josh Rosen and Nick Bosa or Kyler Murray.

 

 

These guys don't come to ES!

[Chris 44]

Thoughts on Va Tech TE Dalton Keene? Seems to have had a better combine than I thought he would.

[HTTRDynasty]

Mock draft (top 10 picks) from a current GM:

 

Here’s how one GM mocked the first 10 picks in the draft.

At this time one year ago, there was a growing sense the Arizona Cardinals would select Kyler Murray first overall. This year, nearly everyone expects the Cincinnati Bengals to select LSU quarterback Joe Burrow with the top pick. Not everyone thinks Burrow will be a top-tier quarterback in the NFL, however.

 

1. Cincinnati Bengals

GM’s projection: Burrow

“You love his mind and the short accuracy, but he is not a big man, he has small hands, does not have a big arm and he has done it for only one season,” this GM said. “So, there are concerns. I would not take him but I think the Bengals will.”

 

An offensive coordinator said the Bengals should “cancel their football team” if they do not take Burrow first overall. This coordinator called Burrow a once-in-a-decade prospect who is ahead of where Andrew Luck was coming out of Stanford based on the offensive style LSU played. The GM thought Alex Smith and Andy Dalton were better comps for Burrow from a physical standpoint while allowing that Burrow possessed more in terms of makeup and moxie.

 

2. Washington Redskins

GM’s projection: Chase Young, DE, Ohio State

The Redskins are in a situation similar to the one Arizona encountered one year ago. The Cardinals drafted Murray and traded Josh Rosen even though they had used a first-round pick (10th overall) for Rosen just a year earlier. This year, Washington could conceivably use the second overall pick for a quarterback despite having selected Dwayne Haskins 15th overall in 2019. One big difference between the Cardinals and Redskins: Washington’s new coach comes from the defensive side of the ball.

 

“Ron Rivera will be running to turn in the card for Chase Young,” a personnel director said. “He is sprinting and doing cartwheels.”

 

3. Detroit Lions trade the pick

GM’s projection: Tua Tagovailoa, QB, Alabama

For the sake of this exercise, the GM had the Dolphins trading into the third spot to land Tagovailoa, but he wasn’t specific on which team would move into this slot.

 

“I think Detroit is going to trade the pick,” the GM said. “Put Tua in there, but they will trade the pick. Someone else will take Tua.”

 

The team trading into this slot would not have to worry about the Giants selecting a quarterback fourth overall. The team would simply be jumping into a spot so that another quarterback-needy team would not get that chance.

 

4. New York Giants

GM’s projections: Andrew Thomas, OT, Georgia

“The Giants will take an offensive lineman and I’ll go with the Georgia tackle or maybe (Mekhi) Becton,” the GM said. “Thomas would be a damn good pick for them.”

 

5. Detroit Lions, if they trade with Miami

GM’s projection: Jeff Okudah, CB, Ohio State

Okudah would give Detroit a promising successor to Darius Slay whether the Lions remained in the third overall slot or moved down.

 

“Let’s say it was Detroit and Miami who made the trade (for Tua),” the GM said. “Detroit would take the corner they need so badly. They are trying to trade Slay.”

 

6. Los Angeles Chargers

GM’s projection: Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon

The GM saw the Chargers selecting a quarterback or offensive tackle.

 

“If you are the coach in his situation, you might want to take another position in the draft and go with Tyrod Taylor, who has played in the playoffs, rather than go with Herbert and start over,” another exec said. “But here is the thing on the Chargers. The GM (Tom Telesco) is making the decisions just like when he was with the Colts (under Bill Polian). They are a GM-driven, personnel-driven team. Telesco would be doing the right thing taking the quarterback, but it might not be the best thing for the coach in the short-term.”

 

7. Carolina Panthers

GM’s projection: Jedrick Wills, OT, Alabama

“I see D-line or O-line,” the GM said, “unless you are sold on a quarterback. They are not good up front on offense and this would help.”

 

8. Arizona Cardinals

GM’s projection: Derrick Brown, DT, Auburn

It’s also easy projecting a wide receiver to the Cardinals “just because you have an offensive coach (Kliff Kingsbury) and you don’t have any speed,” a personnel director said. “I would take Jerry Jeudy among the receivers, but who knows, Kingsbury could like the other Alabama guy (Henry Ruggs III). Brown is the second-best defender in the draft.”

 

9. Jacksonville Jaguars

GM’s projection: Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama

“He’s good,” the GM said of Jeudy, “but I don’t know if he’s great.”

The Jaguars used the fifth pick in the 2012 draft for receiver Justin Blackmon, an elite talent whose off-field struggles limited him to 93 career catches. The 2020 draft is deep at receiver, however, so the Jaguars could justify heading in another direction.

 

“I’d go offensive line,” another exec said.

 

10. Cleveland Browns

GM’s projection: Mekhi Becton, OL, Louisville

“They take the best offensive lineman left and Becton is a big, strong, powerful man,” the GM said.

This would place three offensive linemen among the top 10 picks, along with three quarterbacks, two defensive linemen, a cornerback and a wide receiver.

[Fresh8686]

Any thoughts on Tanner Muse as a WILL? Safety out of Clemson, ran a 4.41 at the combine and weighs in around 230lbs, 6'-2", with 31-1/2" arms.
 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

2. WASHINGTON REDSKINS – QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA

Besides the obvious health asterisk here, let me explain: 

• Dwayne Haskins was not Ron Rivera’s guy, and the former personnel executive who drafted Haskins — Bruce Allen — is now gone. 

• Haskins earned a 66.6 passing grade as a rookie and 84.9 his lone year as the starter at Ohio State. The grades aren’t the end all be all, but you’d be hard-pressed to find a stat or favorable evaluation of Haskins’ rookie season.

• Ask any Cardinals fan whether they’d rather have Josh Rosen and Nick Bosa or Kyler Murray.

 

PFF is becoming pathetically obsessed with being edgy lately, but they are really contradicting themselves here:

 

- There are several favorable stats and evaluations I've seen from them on Haskins' 2019 season.

- Rosen had a 48.2 passing grade as a rookie - far below Haskins' grade.

- Haskins actually had the 2nd highest PFF passing grade among rookies.  You would think that's just one glaring example of a relatively favorable PFF eval right there.

- He was the 17th ranked QB overall by PFF from the week he first started until the end of the season.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

PFF is becoming pathetically obsessed with being edgy lately, but they are really contradicting themselves here:

 

- There are several favorable stats and evaluations I've seen from them on Haskins' 2019 season.

- Rosen had a 48.2 passing grade as a rookie - far below Haskins' grade.

- Haskins actually had the 2nd highest PFF passing grade among rookies.  You would think that's just one glaring example of a relatively favorable PFF eval right there.

- He was the 17th ranked QB overall by PFF from the week he first started until the end of the season.

 

PFF is typically a bit different than most other mocks.  But to this point, I recall there is one on PFF who pushed an optimistic appraisal of Haskins but there is another analyist there who really ripped Haskins hard and used numbers to do so and said his numbers indicate he's the worst bet of all the rookie QBs.  I never posted that article because I presumed some people would go nuts in response to it -- its an emotional topic I've noticed more than most.  I can probably find it if I searched for it.

 

My point is I know that everyone at PFF isn't all in on Haskins.  So some negativity doesn't surprise me here.  Renner is one of their bigger name analysts.  I've seen them use their numbers to argue both ways -- positive and negative. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF is typically a bit different than most other mocks.  But to this point, I recall there is one on PFF who pushed an optimistic appraisal of Haskins but there is another analyist there who really ripped Haskins hard and used numbers to do so and said his numbers indicate he's the worst bet of all the rookie QBs.  I never posted that article because I presumed some people would go nuts in response to it -- its an emotional topic I've noticed more than most.  I can probably find it if I searched for it.

 

My point is I know that everyone at PFF isn't all in on Haskins.  So some negativity doesn't surprise me here.  Renner is one of their bigger name analysts. 

 

Yeah, I know which article you're referring to.  I take that one largely with a grain of salt, because from what I recall, the biggest reason the Bayesian model predicted Haskins would have less success than the other rookie QBs was due to his limited snaps compared to the others.  They said if he had his same numbers with a higher snap count, he would actually separate himself from the other QB's.

 

Regardless, it's funny that some of their analysts dog on him so much when they collectively gave him the 2nd highest rookie QB grade.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeah, I know which article you're referring to.  I take that one largely with a grain of salt, because from what I recall, the biggest reason the Bayesian model predicted Haskins would have less success than the other rookie QBs was due to his limited snaps compared to the others.  They said if he had his same numbers with a higher snap count, he would actually separate himself from the other QB's.

 

Regardless, it's funny that some of their analysts dog on him so much when they collectively gave him the 2nd highest rookie QB grade.

 

But, to be fair, those who think Haskins is the man WOULD take it as a grain of salt. While those who don't think he is the man, at least not yet, would put more credence. We are all biased. Some of us try not to let that shade every opinion and have an open mind, others don't. I've seen plenty of both here. 

 

Having the second highest rookie grade isn't much to jump up and down about. Jones was poor. Minshew was up and down, also on a bad football team. The only other rookie QB worth anything was Kyler Murray, aside from Lock's late surge.