2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think they will be. I think Greg Olsen comes here. Sure, health is a concern, but his value isn’t just on the field. It’s to help teach a system. Hentges is a guy who I think can develop. Sprinkle is Sprinkle. But I’m okay with the three of them. Adding another is ideal, but I don’t think they’ll use ammo they can use on other positions u less the value is at their current draft selection.

 

if anything I think they trade back.

 

But... you never know.

 

 

I think odds are he does come here, if he doesn't get a broadcasting job he likes.  He's good in the locker room, teammates love him.

 

But he doesn't move the needle on the field.  He's in his mid-30's and hasn't been the seam threat in years.  Gone are the days of him being reliable do-it-all.  His blocking isn't what it was either.  If he comes here, I don't think that should or will change any off-season TE need.

 

One thing we lack at TE, seriously lack, is athletes who can block.  The 49ers have 2, one of whom is also a receiving threat.  The Chiefs have 1, who is also a receiving threat.

 

We have none.  We used to have at least a receiving threat in Jordan Reed, but he was never a good (or decent) blocker.  Vernon was at least a vertical receiving threat.

 

Trautman is the guy in this draft who profiles right now as an athletic blocker and a receiving threat.

 

Cole Kmet is a decent prospect, but is not an athlete who can block.  If Kmet develops more as a blocker, he's still not going to be someone who a creative OC will use to wreak havoc.  Look at how Kyle Shanahan uses their duo of athletic blockers.  That's a nightmare for defenses.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t think they will be. I think Greg Olsen comes here. Sure, health is a concern, but his value isn’t just on the field. It’s to help teach a system. Hentges is a guy who I think can develop. Sprinkle is Sprinkle. But I’m okay with the three of them. Adding another is ideal, but I don’t think they’ll use ammo they can use on other positions u less the value is at their current draft selection.

 

if anything I think they trade back.

 

But... you never know.

I’m guessing you’re right about this.  The immediate impact from a TE is tough/rare, and I think they’ll be looking hard at finding contributors for 2020.   I’d look for a TE in the 4th (or later).  Deguara is my guy in the later rounds ATM.  

[HTTRDynasty]

Chase Young, Montez Sweat, Daron Payne and Matt Ioannidis

 

 

First two picks were offensive and defensive rookie of the year. Repeat next year?

 

 

[Fresh8686]

Not all success is weighted equally, the only success that matters is what can translate to the nfl. 

 

Ive been trying to keep that in mind when evaluating players and forming my rankings. It’s so easy to get wowed by something, but you still have to look at the process underneath it and whether it’s constructed in a way to successfully survive the jump to the

next level. 

 

Anyways, man it is a joy to watch CeeDee Lamb. He has this looseness to him and it shows up well during high speed, quick decision moments. Like a ball will get tipped and be sent in some crazy direction and he’ll calmly and precisely shift and snatch that **** up, then go pick up RAC in some ridiculous way. A lot of guys spasm in those moments and lose precise motor control/decision making because they’re wound too tight in the moment. Julian Blackmon, does that as an example. It’s rare to be able to maintain that calm precision like CeeDee and paired with that Alvin Kamara like running style and deceptive strength and amazing contact balance. Dude is going to be great in the NFL. 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

Route running looking pretty great here. Needs to be viewed with a grain of salt however. Those Senior Bowl corners weren’t great.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

On 2/1/2020 at 11:26 AM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

One thing we lack at TE, seriously lack, is athletes who can block.  The 49ers have 2, one of whom is also a receiving threat.  The Chiefs have 1, who is also a receiving threat.

 

 

The more I dive into the TE's in this draft the more that I think its criminal not to get one of them.  IMO our early 3rd rounder or early 4th rounder is the perfect spot.   It's not that I think the draft is brimming with great TEs but I think there are a bunch of a good ones who are a clear peg better than Sprinkle. 

 

I have to watch some of them again.  As for blocking I like Trautman and Kmet the best.  I like Trautman over Kmet because I am not in love with Kmet as a receiver.  Hopkins and Harrison Bryant IMO aren't good blockers yet but are willing blockers so they might evolve into good ones.  Pinkney I think is a slightly better blocker than Hopkins and Harrison but also less of a receiver than those 2.   Hunter Bryant might be the best receiving TE in the group but I don't see him developing as a blocker.  And I haven't looked into a bunch of TE prospects yet.  IMO it looks like a feast in the 3rd-4th round range. 

 

I want a TE both in FA and the draft. 

[Skins199021]

Just asking. Say we Traded number 2 and Miami gave us 5, and 18 and other picks, but for the sake of this we know we have 5, and 18 and +.

 

How if our draft started with Epenesa/Okudah at 5 and Delpit at 18. How are we feeling after Day 1?

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The more I dive into the TE's in this draft the more that I think its criminal not to get one of them.  IMO our early 3rd rounder or early 4th rounder is the perfect spot.   It's not that I think the draft is brimming with great TEs but I think there are a bunch of a good ones who are a clear peg better than Sprinkle. 

 

I have to watch some of them again.  As for blocking I like Trautman and Kmet the best.  I like Trautman over Kmet because I am not in love with Kmet as a receiver.  Hopkins and Harrison Bryant IMO aren't good blockers yet but are willing blockers so they might evolve into good ones.  Pinkney I think is a slightly better blocker than Hopkins and Harrison but also less of a receiver than those 2.   Hunter Bryant might be the best receiving TE in the group but I don't see him developing as a blocker.  And I haven't looked into a bunch of TE prospects yet.  IMO it looks like a feast in the 3rd-4th round range. 

 

I want a TE both in FA and the draft. 

 

I love Trautman for us, but I think he's going to be overdrafted. I see him possibly going before our 3rd even and in an ideal world, he's a 4th round pick. I would be over the moon if we could add another 3rd somehow and go:

1:Chase Young

3:Adam Trautman

3.Lloyd Cushenberry

4.KJ Hill

4.BPA

 

1 hour ago, Skins199021 said:

Just asking. Say we Traded number 2 and Miami gave us 5, and 18 and other picks, but for the sake of this we know we have 5, and 18 and +.

 

How if our draft started with Epenesa/Okudah at 5 and Delpit at 18. How are we feeling after Day 1?

 

You're probably not getting Okudah at 5, and 5 is probably way too high for Epenesa. I know a lot of people love Delpit, but I'm not sure he's going to time that well and he misses a lot of tackles. At 5, I think you look at Simmons, Jeudy, or whichever tackle the Giants don't take. 

 

[skinny21]

17 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I love Trautman for us, but I think he's going to be overdrafted. I see him possibly going before our 3rd even and in an ideal world, he's a 4th round pick. I would be over the moon if we could add another 3rd somehow and go:

1:Chase Young

3:Adam Trautman

3.Lloyd Cushenberry

4.KJ Hill

4.BPA

 

 

You're probably not getting Okudah at 5, and 5 is probably way too high for Epenesa. I know a lot of people love Delpit, but I'm not sure he's going to time that well and he misses a lot of tackles. At 5, I think you look at Simmons, Jeudy, or whichever tackle the Giants don't take. 

 

Agree that Okudah is probably gone to the Giants.  At that point, I’m looking at Simmons/Jeudy/Lamb, or a trade back.  Depending what 5 nets us, at 18 I’d then go for Ruggs/Higgins, a tackle, or maybe a guy like Fulton at corner if he’s still on the board. 
 

@Skinsinparadise check out Deguara if you haven’t had a chance...

Personally I like him as a blocker and as a receiver.  I think he’s projected as a late round guy, but I could see him going from 4th-6th.  

 

 
Edit: rewatched this game and the Memphis game - I amended the above to say I like him as a blocker.  When he latched on, he generally does very well, but he misses at times and can get off balance.  I like seeing his strength against ends and backers though, in contrast to a lot of these TEs that are going after dbs.  I think his lack of height and speed will hurt him though - he might be more of a Fullback at the next level.  I do have a thing for undersized guys holding their own though.  

[PartyPosse]

28 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

:Chase Young

3:Adam Trautman

3.Lloyd Cushenberry

4.KJ Hill

4.BPA

We need a legit CB more than we need another WR. I’d go Young, CB, TE, C and then more OL

[Anselmheifer]

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

We need a legit CB more than we need another WR. I’d go Young, CB, TE, C and then more OL

 

The Wr's available in the 4th this year should be way better than the corners. I hate drafting for need. That's how you miss out on Derwin James. We need quality across the board. Even if we draft Chase, I wouldn't even pass on an edge in the 3rd if that's clearly BPA. I'd rather have Bradley Anae as a 3rd DE than a significantly inferior player, for instance. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

The Wr's available in the 4th this year should be way better than the corners. I hate drafting for need. That's how you miss out on Derwin James. We need quality across the board. Even if we draft Chase, I wouldn't even pass on an edge in the 3rd if that's clearly BPA. I'd rather have Bradley Anae as a 3rd DE than a significantly inferior player, for instance. 

I'm with you, I think draft is for BPA, FA is for need. 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

The Wr's available in the 4th this year should be way better than the corners. I hate drafting for need. That's how you miss out on Derwin James. We need quality across the board. Even if we draft Chase, I wouldn't even pass on an edge in the 3rd if that's clearly BPA. I'd rather have Bradley Anae as a 3rd DE than a significantly inferior player, for instance. 

I agree but to be honest Safety was a position of need. I actually thought we deviated away from BPA because I did not see DT to be one when we drafted Payne. I understood why it was done but I didn’t think it was dire.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Look at what the 49ers can do with two athletes who can block.  Their FB just scored a touchdown in the Superbowl by faking a block and going out on a route.  Kyle Juscysxzk or whatever his name is, he's a hybrid FB/TE and Kyle Shanahan uses him soooo well.  Him and Kittle are a nightmare.

 

We're not going to have that in one off-season.  But maybe we can get just one of them.  Give me an athlete who can block, and we can develop them into someone who can do stuff in the passing game.

 

There are too many slot TE's who are meh blockers in every draft.  And they don't do anything in the NFL or if they do, they don't lead teams to consistent offensive success.

 

How's Evan Engram for the Giants outside of fantasy football?

 

 

[KDawg]

So, I know some get riled, but I enjoy these convos so I hope people can take them for what they are and not an attack on a specific player or your takes, I promise that's not my intention.

 

But after watching Bosa last night/this season, this whole "prospect" angle popped into my head.

 

People say Young is a better prospect than Bosa. Now, in Bosa's rookie year he was an absolute animal. So I'm having a hard time imagining Young coming in and doing the same kind of thing as he did this season. Granted, with Young's skillset and ability he absolutely could, but I just feel that Bosa was absolutely dominant this whole season. Beginning to end. 

 

So when people are talking about Young as a prospect, do they mean long term?  Do they mean immediate? Do they mean as a player?

 

I see Young as a better college player than Bosa, with better measurables and a larger toolbox/skillset. 

 

But I also see Bosa as a more aggressive player with a bit of a mean streak that I don't really see from Young. 

 

I'd be shocked if Young lives up to his hype season 1 (though, I think he's going to be very special and come the end of his career he will be worth every bit of it). 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I love Trautman for us, but I think he's going to be overdrafted. I see him possibly going before our 3rd even and in an ideal world, he's a 4th round pick. I would be over the moon if we could add another 3rd somehow and go:

1:Chase Young

3:Adam Trautman

3.Lloyd Cushenberry

4.KJ Hill

4.BPA

 

 

Trautman is a bit raw, I love his potential, I do think early 3rd would be his value.  But agree with your point, he probably goes before that.

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

So when people are talking about Young as a prospect, do they mean long term?  Do they mean immediate? Do they mean as a player?

 

I see Young as a better college player than Bosa, with better measurables and a larger toolbox/skillset. 

 

But I also see Bosa as a more aggressive player with a bit of a mean streak that I don't really see from Young. 

 

I'd be shocked if Young lives up to his hype season 1 (though, I think he's going to be very special and come the end of his career he will be worth every bit of it). 

 

Immediate and long term.   I agree with the point that you never know until it happens so you can't bank on anything.  That's true of course of any prospect.  As for playing with a mean streak, Chase strikes me in that mold or close enough.  He's a really boisterous guy and arrogant but in a good way where its contagious. 

 

You can see it before the games,  I talked about it on another thread and that is he'd be a needed shot in the arm personality wise to our defense which has mostly quiet reserved guys on the roster.    I've watched Bosa some including live and watched his interviews.  He doesn't seem as an animated personality as Young but he has his moments and agree he plays with a mean streak. 

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Chase-Young-a-better-version-Nick-Bosa-Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-Washington-Redskins-Joel-Klatt-143063554/

FOX Sports analyst Joel Klatt appeared on 106.7, the Sports Junkie and discussed Young being his No. 1 prospect and the expectations for him in the NFL.

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“I think that Chase is going to be a great player,” Klatt said. “There’s a few things that he does as well or better than anybody. Mostly it’s his first step so he can beat you with speed. But he has tremendous hands as well.”

Young led the nation with 16.5 sacks during his junior season of 2019, which was a new school record at OSU. He was named the Big Ten's Silver Football Award winner (league MVP), making him the first defensive player from OSU to win the award in its 95-year history.

Klatt did not stop at praising Young’s ability but went further to say he is already better than Nick Bosa, who just won the Pepsi Rookie of the Year award and is preparing to play in Super Bowl LIV.

“He’s just a total game wrecker,” Klatt said of Young. “Every time that he’s needed to make a play, it seemed like he was close. From my standpoint, this is the type of guy that you can draft, you can plug him in and you can play him right away. I think he is a better version of Nick Bosa. Bosa is explosive but he’s shorter. Chase has better length. He’s a little better versus the run because of that length. He is the type of guy that I think can be an all pro multiple times in his career."

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ohio-states-young-leads-mouth-184726409.html

Ohio State's Young leads with his mouth, then backs it up

 

None of Young's teammates will be telling him to tone down the talking, although he may need to get a handle on his enthusiasm so it doesn't hurt the team. In the Rutgers game last year, Young got himself ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct because of his exuberant celebrating.

"He's awesome," linebacker Pete Werner said. "He gets me pumped up. As far as taking a leadership role he's made big steps. He's that guy now on the team that everybody is going to learn from."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Yeah I’m sorry for me it’s Young. 
 

I have run mocks with 5/18/26 which is probably a haul we would be lucky to receive given trade value charts. Especially after adding what I presume will be a Top flight CB and FS in free agency, getting Simmons + Higgins + Josh Jones is nice but i don’t think you’re as good of a team as you are if you add Young. 
 

Especially seeing what this staff has done in the middle rounds. I’d be confident you could find a complementary starting caliber WR and defensive piece with 3/4/4/5 along with OL depth and a TE. 
 

take the sure fire game changer and don’t overthink it 

[mistertim]

Yeah I've watched Bosa and Young play at OSU and watched cutups of both of their games. They both seem to be super fiery competitors who have high motors and can play with a mean streak. I honestly don't see much difference there, though as @Skinsinparadisenoted, Young is a bit more of an animated personality than Bosa in general, but not in a bad way. In his interviews he comes off as having personality and being confident but not arrogant or like a guy who would be any sort of a distraction. His teammates seem to love him as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I've watched Bosa and Young play at OSU and watched cutups of both of their games. They both seem to be super fiery competitors who have high motors and can play with a mean streak. I honestly don't see much difference there, though as @Skinsinparadisenoted, Young is a bit more of an animated personality than Bosa in general, but not in a bad way. In his interviews he comes off as having personality and being confident but not arrogant or like a guy who would be any sort of a distraction. His teammates seem to love him as well. 

 

Being a leader and animated and playing with a mean streak aren't the same things, granted.    But yeah I like Young's reputation as a boisterous leader.  Reading about the dudes we got on defense and watching them during multiple practices in multiple camps -- we got some really quiet dudes on that side of the ball.  Kerrigian, Ionnaidis, J. Allen, Payne, Holcomb, Nicholson on and one really quiet guys.

 

Reading about Chase even talking to the QB to get them going -- that would be really rare on this team.  London Fletcher was that guy when he was here.   But we've not had too many guys like that since.  Not saying Chase slam dunk would bring that here.  But some who covered him have said he's a really outgoing dude who livens up a locker room.  To me that would be a good bonus on this team. 

 

 

His attitude off the field are beginning to match his actions on it. Linebacker Pete Werner says Young has become a guy who fires up his teammates each and every week.

 

“He’s awesome,” Werner said. “He gets me pumped up. As far as taking a leadership role he’s made big steps. He’s that guy now on the team that everybody is going to learn from.”

https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/chase-young-growing-into-leadership-role-at-ohio-state-coaches-and-teammates-say/

 

https://www.buckeyextra.com/sports/20191214/chase-young-encouraged-justin-fields-to-be-vocal-leader-ohio-state-football-needed-qb-to-be

NEW YORK — Chase Young took aside Justin Fields during a spring practice at Ohio State this year.

It was for some encouragement.

Young recognized that Fields, who had recently transferred from Georgia, was too reserved among newer teammates.

“Going from a big-time program to the next, I know it’s probably nerve-wracking,” Young said. “You don’t know if the players on the team might respect you. But I told him, ‘Everybody on the team respects you. We’re going to need you to lead the team to where we want to get.’

[LD0506]

My issue with the Bosa-vs-Young debate is that once again we try and assess them in a vacuum. Bosa had a helluva year but he did that with a stocked D line, a secondary they relied on, good play @ LB, etc. 

 

Personally I am not expecting to see Chase have a rook campaign like Bosa had, it would be sweet but it's greedy and unfair to the kid to set the bar that high on him. 

 

Give JDR a year to get these guys on track, upgrade some of the positions behind them so that they can play downhill ferociously without looking over their shoulders and we'll see.

 

Mahomes is a freak, an outlier, we build a pass rush like the 9ers and we'll wreck opposing teams. Let's do something un-Skins like for a change, do a thorough job instead of a flashy fix.

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Let's do something un-Skins like for a change, do a thorough job instead of a flashy fix.

I keep seeing this, but I can't remember when was the last time we tried to do a "Flashy Fix" whatever that means.

[KDawg]

28 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

My issue with the Bosa-vs-Young debate is that once again we try and assess them in a vacuum. Bosa had a helluva year but he did that with a stocked D line, a secondary they relied on, good play @ LB, etc. 

 

Personally I am not expecting to see Chase have a rook campaign like Bosa had, it would be sweet but it's greedy and unfair to the kid to set the bar that high on him.

 

 

This is the rub for me. The part I bolded.

 

The pick, right now, has to be Young. I just don't see anything being offered that should/would make us trade out of two and pass on the kind of player Chase Young is. He's a possible game changer for sure.

 

We are setting the bar extremely high for him and it's potentially damaging if he struggles at first. Let Young be Young. He will get there. He's got everything you could want. 

 

But seeing 15+ sack predictions in season one is frustrating. If it was pure homerism and I knew some of these takes would be backed off later, if, say... he has a 10 sack season but does well in demanding doubles and setting the edge... but people tend to measure things based purely on statistics. And if he doesn't meet some of these wild and crazy expectations people will be down on him.

 

He's going to be a damn good player. Let him be.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]