2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mistertim]

Yeah apparently O'Grady had already been suspended 3 times before or something like that. Once was as a Freshman for a DUI, the others weren't specified.

 

I'd heard his name before but never really watched him until @Skinsinparadisebrought him up and put those clips in. I definitely like what I see from an athleticism standpoint as well as playing with a mean streak. Seems like a willing blocker but I agree he'll need to work on his technique. Seems to have pretty good hands and runs decent routes from what I saw.

 

But the personality/off the field stuff is a big red flag for me. A guy getting suspended 3 times and then eventually leaving the team doesn't sound like a guy who has learned from his past mistakes. 

[Fresh8686]

Speaking of Kittle, I think my favorite flavor of attitude/edge is what he and also Derrius Guice have. That happy violence. Where they are truly having fun burying another man into the ground. To me that is stronger than just being mean or violent. It's a step above calculated violence as well, because happy violence guys like Kittle and Guice are way more charismatic and I feel like they are better able to bounce back from or deal with the psychological toll of injuries better.

 

However, they tend to get hurt more with their style of play, but everything has pros and cons. We all know Guice's injury history, but Kittle has been playing with a torn labrum since 2018 and has no plans to get surgery on it in the foreseeable future.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Ok got a look finally at Jacob Breeland -- @stevemcqueen1's guy.

 

With tight ends in particular I look for players who have some twitch-agility partly because a bunch if them are really stiff in their movements.    I like TEs who have loose hips (relatively speaking for that position) because I think it helps them both as to separating and blocking athletic edge rushers.  Breeland has that component that I like -- he's athletic for a dude his size. 

 

I don't like the big lumbering TE types as much as I notice some draft geeks do.  They seem to get labeled as good blockers almost by default because of their size.  Personally I prefer the more athletic types not just as receivers but blockers, too.  Kittle is arguably the best starting TE who can do it all -- he's not a big lumbering dude as a blocker and his athleticism I think helps him on that count.  Trautman sometimes comes off like the lumbering type but he has some athleticism to him IMO and I like his mean streak. 

 

Having said that, I am not blown away by Breeland as a blocker but he's not bad.  So so.  He's a willing blocker.  He is inconsistent on that front.  On some plays it looks like he plays with a mean streak and on others not.  He's not a mauler type though as a blocker.  He's not a Kittle, Hockenson, type etc.  

 

I like him as a receiver.  He has good hands.  Good catch radius.  He is also a YAC guy who is good with the ball in his hands.  I just read one draft report about him after watching him that said his weakness is his athleticism.  I think that's nuts.  His athleticism is his strength IMO.  He moves almost like a receiver.  You see some stiffness when he runs but that's really common among all TEs with a rare exception.   They even send him deep from time to time.  

 

He sometimes is a bit of a body catcher. And as a YAC guy, its not in the form of steamrolling guys but more in terms of being relatively elusive with the ball in hands -- not killer elusive but he has some moves in the open field when he has the ball. 

 

I get @stevemcqueen1's point about not reaching for a TE when you can possibly get Breeland lower in the draft.  I agree with that in theory.  Breeland strikes me in the Hopkins, Harrison Bryant style of TEs.  That is, he's a dynamic pass catcher who could potentially develop as a blocker (since he's a willing blocker) but isn't there, yet.  I'd take Harrison Bryant and Hopkins from what I watched over Breeland.  But IMO they are of the same flavor so if I could take Breeland in the 5th or 6th over expending a 3rd-4th round on Hopkins-Harrison I'd do it.  Not that Hopkins and Harrison are my favorite TEs in this class but I am guessing that's who will be available in the 3rd or maybe 4th.  I think there is a shot Trautman and Kmet go before our pick in the 3rd.

 

The first clip below is sort of the typical play from him.  Quick out route in the flat.   He reminds me of Jordan Reed in that he can get open quickly in the flat -- in route, out route. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah apparently O'Grady had already been suspended 3 times before or something like that. Once was as a Freshman for a DUI, the others weren't specified.

 

I'd heard his name before but never really watched him until @Skinsinparadisebrought him up and put those clips in. I definitely like what I see from an athleticism standpoint as well as playing with a mean streak. Seems like a willing blocker but I agree he'll need to work on his technique. Seems to have pretty good hands and runs decent routes from what I saw.

 

But the personality/off the field stuff is a big red flag for me. A guy getting suspended 3 times and then eventually leaving the team doesn't sound like a guy who has learned from his past mistakes. 

 

Yeah agree.  I got no idea about the personality issues.  I don't know if drugs are in the mix or not but if they are I'd hard pass on him for sure.  But if they aren't that bothered by it, I think that dude has some good talent.   I read one article that says his dispute with the HC centered on who should be playing QB. 

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah agree.  I got no idea about the personality issues.  I don't know if drugs are in the mix or not but if they are I'd hard pass on him for sure.  But if they aren't that bothered by it, I think that dude has some good talent.   I read one article that says his dispute with the HC centered on who should be playing QB. 

 

Yeah it's hard to say without knowing what the other two suspensions were for. That's something I'm sure NFL scouts will dig into. I generally agree with you. If he had a DUI as a Freshman because he did something stupid and learned from it but the other stuff was more related to disagreements with coaching staff or about football stuff then I'd be willing to at least talk to him and see what he's like. If it's still drug/alcohol related then definitely a hard pass. 3 hits for that stuff definitely means a problem that I don't want to have to deal with.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah it's hard to say without knowing what the other two suspensions were for. That's something I'm sure NFL scouts will dig into. I generally agree with you. If he had a DUI as a Freshman because he did something stupid and learned from it but the other stuff was more related to disagreements with coaching staff or about football stuff then I'd be willing to at least talk to him and see what he's like. If it's still drug/alcohol related then definitely a hard pass. 3 hits for that stuff definitely means a problem that I don't want to have to deal with.

 

From a distance, it comes off a little like Reuben Foster.  Maybe an alcohol issue (with Foster it was pot) and maybe anger issues?    Ryan Anderson if I recall had an incident or two in college (good teammate though) and seems fine among other players who had issues so I think it depends on context and where is that player now mentality.

 

 

[Going Commando]

That last gif you posted of Breeland is the one where he hurt his knee SIP.  It didn't look like anything major and the contact wasn't that hard, must have just been a bad plant or something.

 

I think he's among the better blockers in the class.  He's not a vicious or spectacular stalk blocker or puller like Kittle, or a people mover in-line like Gronkowski.  But he's effective.  Better in space, but still effective in-line.  I think he'd genuinely be pretty good on outside zone runs.  And if he needs to be an ally in pass-pro, I think he can do that too.  He and Sewell were a really good left running tandem and he was pretty good with Throckmorton on the other side.

 

I think what that person complaining about his athleticism must have meant was that he's not very explosive.  That's probably a fair criticism.  But I think you're right that he has fluid hips and that he's at least very quick and very smooth as an athlete.

 

The biggest thing that defines his style of play for me is that he is tricky and smart.  That ties back into your comment about the fluidity in his hips, but he opens his hips up on those middle crossing routes in a way that is very deceptive to the safeties and linebackers in middle zones.  He gets behind you really quick and he adjusts his routes to give the QB really nice throwing lanes and he usually creates enough space to get at least a few steps after the catch.  Prevent some of the big hits.  He's a zone-buster.

 

I think he's got some Chris Cooley in his skill set.  He won't play H-Back as much, but he does do it in his Oregon film.  It'd mean taking on another injured player, but  I think he might be available in the sixth round, if we can maneuver into position for him.  There's got to be a way we could redshirt him while he recovers.

[Est.1974]

Brandon Aiyuk, thoughts on which round he likely gets drafted ?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Brandon Aiyuk, thoughts on which round he likely gets drafted ?

 

General consensus among analysts says Round 1.

[skinny21]

10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Brandon Aiyuk, thoughts on which round he likely gets drafted ?

My guess is somewhere in the 2nd.  The depth of the receiving class (and the number of top talent receivers) may push him down, but I think he’ll do well at the combine which might weigh against that.  
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

That last gif you posted of Breeland is the one where he hurt his knee SIP.  It didn't look like anything major and the contact wasn't that hard, must have just been a bad plant or something.

 

Yep I did notice him getting hurt at the end of that play on the sideline.

 

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think he's got some Chris Cooley in his skill set.  He won't play H-Back as much, but he does do it in his Oregon film.  It'd mean taking on another injured player, but  I think he might be available in the sixth round, if we can maneuver into position for him.  There's got to be a way we could redshirt him while he recovers.

 

Cooley is a good analogy.   He seems to be in that flavor.

 

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think he's among the better blockers in the class.  He's not a vicious or spectacular stalk blocker or puller like Kittle, or a people mover in-line like Gronkowski.  But he's effective.  Better in space, but still effective in-line.  I think he'd genuinely be pretty good on outside zone runs.  And if he needs to be an ally in pass-pro, I think he can do that too.  He and Sewell were a really good left running tandem and he was pretty good with Throckmorton on the other side.

 

I thought he was OK as a blocker.  But yeah I do like the people mover types that have some mean streak in them.  I like Kmet, Trautman and Pickney better as blockers than I do Breeland.  But I think he's a good enough blocker.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Albert Okwuegbunam.  Had an off year this year without Drew Lock so i watched a game from 2018 and 2019.

 

He's a big dude who looks the part.  He looks relatively athletic for his size.  Plays Y, plays H.  Quick out routes, seem routes, digs.    Good hands.   Not bad as a YAC guy but nothing crazy on that front. He seems to have decent hands.  He has some straight in line speed to his game but not a lot of wiggle/agility to him from what I saw.

 

I've noticed the draft geek types are all over the place about him as a blocker.  Some say he stinks at it, some saying he's good.  I am somewhere in between the two thoughts but lean more good than bad.  He is a willing blocker and can even be a bit feisty on that front.  They used him from what I saw to run block quite a bit.  The criticism would be for a dude his size, he doesn't really seem to move people and sometimes will lose his grip on his blocks fairly quickly.  Sometimes he will flat out whiff on his blocks.  But at the same time, he engages as a blocker and gets his body in front of his man -- and considering he's a big dude that helps running backs elude the defender he's covering.

 

He wouldn't be in my top 5.  But I'd be cool with him (late 4th, early 5?), he's got some potential.  I keep making the same point but there are a lot of TEs in this draft with potential.  It's an odd draft on that front.  To use baseball terms you don't have IMO any obvious 300 BA plus hitters but you got a whole bunch of guys in the 270-280 BA range that are close in ability -- some of whom have the potential to develop into 300 hitters.  I got a whole bunch of TEs I like but really no one I love.  But heck I'd take a lot of these guys over what we have now -- I think they'd be an improvement.  I have to rewatch them but at the moment my top 5 would be Trautman, Kmet, Hopkins, Harrison Bryant, Pickney.

 

O'Grady and Breeland are wildcards -- health on one and off the field issues with the other but I think they'd be in the same conversation.  I think Hunter Bryant could be a good TE, too I just got serious doubts that he has the size to be a good blocker.  Okwuegbunam might be my next guy after the others.  But again I don't think there is a ton of variance between these guys. 

[Anselmheifer]

I feel like our LB's are soft without Foster. I know that today's NFL is a coverage league, but we don't have a single physical tone setter at that level of the defense.  Our tackling has been an issue for a long time and there is no intimidation factor. Watching Tennessee beat Baltimore, Rashaan Evans was so important to that defense and we have nothing like that here in DC. 

 

I've been watching more of Malik Harrison, and I think he could be a really good match for us. He measured 6-2 5/8" and 246 pounds at the Senior Bowl, so he has very good size for a LB. Per PFF analysis below, he's an extremely sure tackler. He's physical. He doesn't necessarily explode through people like a Reuben Foster, but makes solid contact and stops momentum immediately. One of the things I like best while watching him, is that he seems to do a really good job of sorting through trash, stacking and shedding, and getting off of the blocks of offensive lineman. He looks like he'd be a very good fit in an aggressive one gap scheme, because he doesn't need to be kept clean. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-25-observations-ahead-of-week-14

The quote from below is from PFF's list of college players to watch ahead of week of of the NCAA season. 

 

"3. OHIO STATE

LB Malik Harrison — 88.8 overall grade

One of the many highly graded players on the Buckeyes’ uber-talented defense, Harrison is the team’s highest-graded senior. He’s been especially elite as a tackler in 2019. He’s only missed two tackles on the season, and his tackling efficiency (28 attempts per missed tackle) is the third-best among linebackers in the FBS."

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/malik-harrison-1.html

 

 

 

The whole video is worthwhile, but the second play, that starts at 20 seconds, is a decent example of his ability to get off of blocks. He takes on a block by the center without losing ground, sheds the block, and makes the tackle. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that Harrison has the speed to hold up well in man coverage down the field on a good TE, but he does look pretty good in his zone drops and seems to have a feel for getting his hands on the ball. 

 

 

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/1221172466665558016?s=20

 

He's not Devin Bush or Devin White, but he is a hard nosed guy that can stack and shed, has adequate speed, and could find success playing next to a faster WILL behind a solid line. He also comes from a big time program with a winning culture and would bring some attitude and toughness to our linebackers. I think he'd immediately be our best SAM. 

 

[KDawg]

27 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

He's not Devin Bush or Devin White, but he is a hard nosed guy that can stack and shed, has adequate speed, and could find success playing next to a faster WILL behind a solid line. He also comes from a big time program with a winning culture and would bring some attitude and toughness to our linebackers. I think he'd immediately be our best SAM. 

 

 

Gotta watch more of him, but I like him. 

 

Akeem Davis-Gaither is still my dude in this draft, though. 

[Going Commando]

Look at Okudah setting the edge on that first play Zach Boren breaks down, and then flexing on the receiver after he dumps him.  That guy is a dog.

 

What do you guys think of Jordan Fuller?  This defense is ridiculous with how much NFL talent it had on it this season.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Gotta watch more of him, but I like him. 

 

Akeem Davis-Gaither is still my dude in this draft, though. 

 

Do you have a game I can watch that'll showcase what he does well?

 

I tossed on one, but he seemed to always be a beat late to react to the play.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Do you have a game I can watch that'll showcase what he does well?

 

I tossed on one, but he seemed to always be a beat late to react to the play.

I just went through and watched game footage on YouTube. I didn’t see the beat late thing. That’s an interesting take. I’ll watch again and see if I see that.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Do you have a game I can watch that'll showcase what he does well?

 

I tossed on one, but he seemed to always be a beat late to react to the play.

I wish Shaun Jolly has declared this year, a soph cb from App state. I look forward to seeing what the ES draft crew thinks of him next year, he stood out frequently when watching Davis. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I just went through and watched game footage on YouTube. I didn’t see the beat late thing. That’s an interesting take. I’ll watch again and see if I see that.

 

I didn't dive deeply into it, I only watched 5 minutes of 1 cutup.  I wouldn't take what I saw from that as a big indicator of anything yet.  5 minutes is long enough to see if they're athletic, but that's about it.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Look at Okudah setting the edge on that first play Zach Boren breaks down, and then flexing on the receiver after he dumps him.  That guy is a dog.

 

What do you guys think of Jordan Fuller?  This defense is ridiculous with how much NFL talent it had on it this season.

 

I LOVE Okudah. He's going to be a stud and I wish we could grab him. Obviously, Young is a better choice. The non-QB top of this draft is so good. Okudah, Simmons, Jeudy, all belong in the top 5 of any draft, IMHO. There is solid value all the way down to 10 or 12, with multiple very good but not elite OT's, two really good DT's. 

 

I'm thinking back to what you said about trying to get multiple 4th round picks in this draft. I agree with that sentiment. In fact, I'd love to have multiple 3rds and 4ths. If we could turn Trent Williams into three 3rd round picks, imagine all of the talent and depth Kyle Smith could find. 

 

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I just went through and watched game footage on YouTube. I didn’t see the beat late thing. That’s an interesting take. I’ll watch again and see if I see that.

 

He wasn't super productive in terms of volume of tackles, posting 75 tackles this year. One of the scouting reports I read on him said that he struggled a little bit with instincts last year, but was much better this year. That is probably a work in progress. 

 

Regarding Akeem Davis-Gaither, I'm not sure what to think. His Senior Bowl measurements were 6-1 1/2", 9 inch hands, 219 pounds, 31 3/8" arms, 75" wingspan. That is just small. Too small to be an every down LB, IMHO. And I don't think he has the speed to play safety. He's going to be JHC-lite. A guy that can be a special teams stud and will get in on the nickel and dime packages. Late round pick. He looked good at the Senior Bowl, but there is ton's of 7 on 7 in the Senior Bowl and not much running game/contact. It was the perfect showcase for his strengths without exposing his weaknesses. 

https://appstatesports.com/news/2020/1/23/-18-football-senior-bowl-what-they-re-saying-about-akeem-davis-gaither.aspx

https://247sports.com/Article/2020-Senior-Bowl-weigh-in-and-measurements-142531635/

[skinny21]

11 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I didn't dive deeply into it, I only watched 5 minutes of 1 cutup.  I wouldn't take what I saw from that as a big indicator of anything yet.  5 minutes is long enough to see if they're athletic, but that's about it.

Aside from his athleticism, what stood out to me was his ability to get off blocks.  Someone his size and with his speed/quickness, you’d expect him to struggle with disengaging, but he looked really good in this department IMO. 
On top of that, he’s got a good motor, blitzes well, coverage looked good to me, tackles well, comes off as a smart player given his reaction skills and the various ways he was used... I honestly don’t see any real hole to his game.  

Looks like a potentially excellent WILL linebacker who could possibly play all 3 spots because of his ability to defeat blocks.  The big question is can he carry that over to the NFL against much better competition.

[volsmet]

How quickly Ruggs runs down Nigel Warrior is insanity.

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

8 minutes ago, volsmet said:

How quickly Ruggs runs down Nigel Warrior is insanity.

 

 

 

That's really crazy. I don't want him in the NFCE, unless he's on my team. 

Does anyone know what got Brandon Ayuik flagged for his medical at the Senior Bowl? I wonder if it might make him drop. 

[Fresh8686]

@Anselmheifer

 

How do you feel about Malik's mental processing? In the games I watched it seemed he'd guess on things, appear hesitant, and I didn't like that he was usually 2nd or 3rd man in on a tackle. I also get the impression that he doesn't consistently play fast with his eyes up. Some draft people said that got better as the season went on, but he still made hasty choices in the Clemson game imo. 

I love his wing span though and his grip strength, but I wasn't blown away by his speed either. I also didn't like his agility when needing to make last minute adjustments against the more shifty offensive skill guys. He will get embarrassed in open space in the NFL if that doesn't improve.

 

I've got Akeem Davis-Gaither slightly ahead of him in my evaluations because Akeem plays faster, has more active hands, and he comes across as more locked in with his body language. I also think Akeem is more mature. However, Malik does have better length/size, so we can say he has a higher ceiling but Akeem currently gets more out of what he has and has a higher floor imo.

 

So the question becomes, how well can Malik progress his mental game while also dealing with the jump in speed and complexity in the NFL? I have some concerns there that keep me from getting too excited about him.

Edit: Also saw this about Akeem's weight which makes me feel better about his tweener status. He's right in that 215-230lb range as a WILL.
 

 

However, if I could choose between Malik, Akeem, and Kyle Dugger I'd go with Dugger of the three. 

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Regarding Akeem Davis-Gaither, I'm not sure what to think. His Senior Bowl measurements were 6-1 1/2", 9 inch hands, 219 pounds, 31 3/8" arms, 75" wingspan. That is just small. Too small to be an every down LB, IMHO. And I don't think he has the speed to play safety. He's going to be JHC-lite. A guy that can be a special teams stud and will get in on the nickel and dime packages. Late round pick. He looked good at the Senior Bowl, but there is ton's of 7 on 7 in the Senior Bowl and not much running game/contact. It was the perfect showcase for his strengths without exposing his weaknesses. 

https://appstatesports.com/news/2020/1/23/-18-football-senior-bowl-what-they-re-saying-about-akeem-davis-gaither.aspx

https://247sports.com/Article/2020-Senior-Bowl-weigh-in-and-measurements-142531635/

 

Agree he's a bit small...

 

But I equate him to a basketball point of view...

 

What I mean:

 

You're watching a game, and this one guy is scoring well. He takes mid range jumpers, drives well, but gets bodied underneath and struggles on the boards. He floats around the mid range level a lot and doesn't spend a lot of time inside or outside. When you're watching, you get this feel for his height. You kinda think, "man, this dude is 6-5 and puts himself in good spots for a guy his size..." and then you look at the program and see he's actually 6-10 and you're disappointed?

 

Or the reverse... a guy who is banging the boards all day long, scoring from range, fighting for block positioning... and you think he's 6-10 so he's not that impressive, then you look at you see he's actually 6-7.

 

That's the vibe I get from Akeem. He's 216 pounds but you watch him and he plays like he's 235-240 with how he sheds blocks, takes on contact and tackles. He plays big.

4 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

@Anselmheifer

 

How do you feel about Malik's mental processing? In the games I watched it seemed he'd guess on things, appear hesitant, and I didn't like that he was usually 2nd or 3rd man in on a tackle. I also get the impression that he doesn't consistently play fast with his eyes up. Some draft people said that got better as the season went on, but he still made hasty choices in the Clemson game imo. 

I love his wing span though and his grip strength, but I wasn't blown away by his speed either. I also didn't like his agility when needing to make last minute adjustments against the more shifty offensive skill guys. He will get embarrassed in open space in the NFL if that doesn't improve.

 

I've got Akeem Davis-Gaither slightly ahead of him in my evaluations because Akeem plays faster, has more active hands, and he comes across as more locked in with his body language. I also think Akeem is more mature. However, Malik does have better length/size, so we can say he has a higher ceiling but Akeem currently gets more out of what he has and has a higher floor imo.

 

So the question becomes, how well can Malik progress his mental game while also dealing with the jump in speed and complexity in the NFL? I have some concerns there that keep me from getting too excited about him.

 

Good post. Without diving too far into Malik yet, this is along the lines of my initial thoughts. 

 

Malik has the NFL size/length, Akeem has the motor/skills. 

 

Can we combine them somehow?