kingdaddy Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, TheShredder said: That would be a huge mistake. People haven't done their research before talking down about Doctson. Watch the tape. Evaluate the QB vs the route assignment. Look at the personnel in the package. Put that all together, before making a statement about a players overall evaluation. Doctson hasn't been put into the right situation to take advantage of what he does best. In criticism for what Doctson hasn't done until you evaluate his last set of games, it comes down to aggressiveness and probably immaturity. He didn't breakout in college until his 3rd year. He didn't play in his rookie year, so this is his 3rd full NFL season. There's just too much risk to take the gamble on the 5th year option...I get it. That has nothing to do with how his progression has been slow historically and how expectations based on that would make you bullish on Doctson in his 3rd year, healthy, increasingly aggressive, and paired with more talented receivers on the field at the same time. It matters. There's no way Jay Gruden cuts Josh Doctson. Zero chance of that. Don't get me wrong, as I'm not a Josh Doctson fan. I'm just stating what I see and connecting the dots with all things considered. I believe he's an average #2 or good #3 NFL WR at his best. My expectations on the high side are 750-900 yards with 6-8 TDs. Zero chance that he's cut is a strong statement. What if he has a bad camp, can't stay on the field and others are lighting it up? Guys like Sims, Quinn and Davis who may also play special teams? By not picking up his 5th year it seems to me that the writing is on the wall that the coaches are not all that enamored with Doc to this point. I'm not criticizing him, just going off of his performance thus far. You could very well be right but I think zero chance is pretty confident. I'd love to see him step up and have a big year....we need him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, TheShredder said: Doctson hasn't been put into the right situation to take advantage of what he does best. I skipped those analysis steps, but I'd definitely agree that Cousins and (insert 2018 QB) never really looked Docston's way or developed any chemistry with him. Seems like Josh was intended to solve our red zone problems and only gets his number called for faded and red zone routes. Other then those I don't think the QBs looked his way or had many plays designed to go him . (Josh also gave them reasons to not look his way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 On 5/14/2019 at 6:38 AM, Mooka said: Josh also gave them reasons to not look his way That I also agree with. When you look at all things considered Josh has to play with more confidence and in his more recent game tape you can see that he was playing more aggressive. He's not going to get separation, as that's not what he has ever done. Rather, he runs his routes and is supposed to win 50/50 balls. Alex Smith never threw him a 50/50 ball more that was remotely catchable. Mainly because that's not Alex's game. Now, Case will definitely throw him 50/50's. Not sure about Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 When the final cuts are made down to 53, one thing is certain ; we will have one of the very youngest teams in the league. Now, that's exciting, no matter what our record turns out to be this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 In terms of holes, inside linebacker and free safety are glaring. Wide receiver has been talked about. I feel like there’s talent there, but I don’t know if it will be realized due to health or other factors. Corner may also be s concern. Dunbar started strong, but slipped and then had to be shelved for injuries. Can he come back, step up, and is he durable enough to last a season. I’m hoping Moreau makes the kind of jump Fuller did in his second year playing. Josh has been up and down. The rest are really young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 11 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: When the final cuts are made down to 53, one thing is certain ; we will have one of the very youngest teams in the league. I wonder about that. I thought the same last year, then I saw this article, with this chart, which gives you each team's ranking in terms of age: Team 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 Bengals 25.2 (1) 25.5 (3) 26.3 (23) 26.3 (20) 25.9 (14) 25.9 (12) Browns 25.3 (2) 24.2 (1) 25.1 (2) 26.1 (16) 25.7 (9) 25.3 (2) Cowboys 25.4 (3) 26.1 (17) 26 (12) 26 (14) 25.4 (4) 26 (15) Rams 25.5 (4) 25.1 (2) 25 (1) 24.9 (1) 25.1 (1) 25 (1) Jaguars 25.5 (5) 25.6 (7) 25.4 (4) 25.3 (2) 25.2 (2) 25.4 (5) Vikings 25.5 (6) 26.1 (20) 26.6 (31) 25.8 (7) 25.6 (5) 26 (13) Texans 25.6 (7) 25.5 (4) 26.2 (19) 25.8 (5) 26 (16) 26.2 (20) Colts 25.6 (8) 25.6 (5) 26.5 (29) 27.2 (32) 26.7 (29) 26.6 (24) Seahawks 25.7 (9) 25.8 (13) 25.6 (7) 25.9 (12) 25.7 (7) 25.3 (4) Packers 25.7 (10) 25.7 (11) 25.4 (3) 25.5 (3) 25.6 (6) 25.4 (6) Eagles 25.7 (11) 26.4 (23) 26.5 (28) 26.7 (28) 26.3 (19) 25.7 (10) Bears 25.7 (12) 26.3 (22) 25.9 (10) 26.2 (19) 26.7 (30) 26.8 (29) Chiefs 25.8 (13) 25.9 (14) 25.5 (6) 25.8 (6) 25.3 (3) 25.7 (8) Chargers 25.8 (14) 25.7 (8) 25.7 (9) 26.3 (21) 26.6 (28) 26.3 (21) 49ers 25.8 (15) 25.7 (10) 26.1 (16) 25.8 (8) 26.4 (22) 26.6 (25) Steelers 25.9 (16) 26.1 (18) 26.3 (24) 26.6 (26) 26.3 (18) 26.5 (23) Broncos 26 (17) 26 (16) 25.5 (5) 26.2 (18) 25.8 (12) 26.8 (28) Ravens 26 (18) 26.4 (25) 26.4 (27) 26 (15) 26 (17) 26.2 (18) Jets 26 (19) 25.6 (6) 26.2 (21) 26.6 (27) 25.9 (13) 25.6 (7) Titans 26.1 (20) 26.5 (27) 25.9 (11) 25.8 (9) 26.4 (23) 26.2 (19) Giants 26.1 (21) 25.7 (9) 26 (14) 26.5 (25) 26.8 (31) 26.7 (27) Bucs 26.1 (22) 26.2 (21) 25.7 (8) 25.9 (11) 25.7 (8) 26 (14) Redskins 26.2 (23) 25.9 (15) 26.4 (25) 26.2 (17) 26.4 (24) 26.8 (31) Saints 26.3 (24) 26.5 (28) 26.4 (26) 26.7 (29) 26.3 (20) 26.3 (22) Cardinals 26.5 (25) 27.3 (32) 26.1 (17) 26.4 (22) 26.6 (27) 26.8 (30) Dolphins 26.5 (26) 26.6 (29) 26.2 (20) 25.6 (4) 25.9 (15) 25.7 (9) Lions 26.6 (27) 25.8 (12) 26.1 (18) 26.5 (24) 26.3 (21) 27.2 (32) Bills 26.7 (28) 26.7 (30) 26.3 (22) 25.9 (10) 25.7 (10) 25.3 (3) Panthers 26.8 (29) 26.8 (31) 26.5 (30) 26.9 (31) 26.6 (26) 26.6 (26) Patriots 26.8 (30) 26.5 (26) 26.1 (15) 25 (13) 25.8 (11) 25.9 (11) Falcons 26.9 (31) 26.4 (24) 27.1 (32) 26.8 (30) 26.6 (25) 26.1 (16) Raiders 27.4 (32) 26.1 (19) 26 (13) 26.5 (23) 27 (32) 26.1 (17) We seem to hover around the bottom 10-15 in terms of age. I doubt we make the leap to top 10 or whatever in just one year, especially since our rookies are pretty old as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I wonder about that. I thought the same last year, then I saw this article, with this chart, which gives you each team's ranking in terms of age: We seem to hover around the bottom 10-15 in terms of age. I doubt we make the leap to top 10 or whatever in just one year, especially since our rookies are pretty old as a whole. That is a little surprising, and our old vets must be throwing the average way off, but this year really has to see a difference. Consider that we had an excellent draft, and a large one too, so a high number of 21-22 year olds will be added, and also take the roster spots of some older guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Just now, Malapropismic Depository said: That is a little surprising, and our old vets must be throwing the average way off, but this year really has to see a difference. Consider that we had an excellent draft, and a large one too, so a high number of 21-22 year olds will be added, and also take the roster spots of some older guys. That's true, but the fact that almost every other team will be doing the same thing negates that a bit. I understand your point about our class being larger than average, which should help, but no matter how "good" a team's draft is, GM's generally keep nearly all of their draft picks on the roster for at least the first year. Those are "their guys", and it's rare to see drafted guys cut unless they are either injured or fighting to join stacked rosters. I think we'll probably end up ranking around 15-20 this year, which is progress 🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: That's true, but the fact that almost every other team will be doing the same thing negates that a bit. I understand your point about our class being larger than average, which should help, but no matter how "good" a team's draft is, GM's generally keep nearly all of their draft picks on the roster for at least the first year. Those are "their guys", and it's rare to see drafted guys cut unless they are either injured or fighting to join stacked rosters. I think we'll probably end up ranking around 15-20 this year, which is progress 🍻 Unless they cut Vernon Davis. Then expect a huge huge spike in that. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Burgold said: Can he come back, step up, and is he durable enough to last a season. I’m hoping Moreau makes the kind of jump Fuller did in his second year playing. Josh has been up and down. The rest are really young. Im really pulling for Dunbar, I like him a lot as a player. I feel fine with him starting at corner, he plays well, especially for a converted wide receiver. I really miss Fuller, the way he defended in the slot, picking off passes, and shutting down those screens before they got started. I think he would have had a better career here with us. We knew how to use him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 Gotta give the coaching staff a lot of credit for the conversion of Dunbar from WR to CB. Of course, T-Gray gets most of the grooming credit. But I wonder whose original idea it was, and who was it that saw something in Dunbar, to believe the switch could work ? Gruden, Manusky, Gray ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Gotta give the coaching staff a lot of credit for the conversion of Dunbar from WR to CB. Of course, T-Gray gets most of the grooming credit. But I wonder whose original idea it was, and who was it that saw something in Dunbar, to believe the switch could work ? Gruden, Manusky, Gray ? Id like to know myself. Really is an intelligent move, whoever did it knows their stuff. Looked at him and said, “he may be playing out of his natural position.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Our roster age is seriously skewed by our older guys (which, to be fair, might be the case for most teams): Smith and Davis are 35, AP 34, and DRC 33. Replace those 4 with 4 guys of league average age and we’re top 4-6. We do have a lot of youth on the team though. I would guess our median age is closer to the top of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Ill add this, Im a general manager for Golds Gym and Robert Davis got a work out here this past weekend. That man is absolutly JACKED. Check out his IG @rjd_1 I think he is a good kid and if his body holds up he will take over for Doctson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 22 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Gotta give the coaching staff a lot of credit for the conversion of Dunbar from WR to CB. Of course, T-Gray gets most of the grooming credit. But I wonder whose original idea it was, and who was it that saw something in Dunbar, to believe the switch could work ? Gruden, Manusky, Gray ? Desperation, we had an absolutely ridiculous number of injuries to our DBs & Dunbar was so aggressive that they gave him a shot to get reps a cb, I believe Perry Fewell is who worked with him most & got him ready to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 22 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Gotta give the coaching staff a lot of credit for the conversion of Dunbar from WR to CB. Of course, T-Gray gets most of the grooming credit. But I wonder whose original idea it was, and who was it that saw something in Dunbar, to believe the switch could work ? Gruden, Manusky, Gray ? It's well documented that it was Jay's idea. Eric Schaffer doubled down on the point in a recent Cooley podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 3 hours ago, NeverSurrender said: Ill add this, Im a general manager for Golds Gym and Robert Davis got a work out here this past weekend. That man is absolutly JACKED. Check out his IG @rjd_1 I think he is a good kid and if his body holds up he will take over for Doctson. I'm curious, in what ways or areas exactly, does it help a WR's game, to get jacked up ? Is he gonna be our #1 blocking receiver ? Our #1 special teams banger ? How does it help him in receptions ? Maybe YAC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/12/2019 at 11:44 AM, Owls0325 said: WR- (6)- Richardson, McLaurin, Quinn, Harmon, Doctson, Chesson, Quick, C Sims, S Sims, Davis Summary- Before the draft this would have gone down as one of the weakest units on the redskins roster. Richardson and McLaurin look like the only real locks to make the roster which means that competition for places should be high across camp. However I would expect Quinn and Harmon both to make the roster there is the potential for Doctson to be cut which would save only 620,000 however this would only happen if Doctson is soundly beaten in training camp as the Redskins will continue to search for compensatory picks which could come from Doctson having an upward year. Players need to steep up here particular with a new QB at the helm. I see NO WAY we cut Doctson for a bunch of WRs with a history of injuries (Robinson, Davis Quinn). No matter what they do they're still potential liabilities. And like i said in another thread, he has played 2 seasons with 31 games, and been consistent in blocking and put up 35 & 500. Not top tier stats but more than anybody else has given us. Plus we save nothing by cutting him, other than swallowing a prospect on a rookie deal with potential that Gruden has talked about over and over. Nah, just don't see it happening. I do think that a trio of McLaurin, Doctson and Harmin is possible, with Richardson being hurt yet again, or just being benched or used as a gadget guy. I mean Richardson has put up 500 yards once in his career, Doctson has twice. But Richardson had 3 seasons with under 300 yards (including last year), say it's injuries all you want but Doctson has shown availability more than any other wr on this team (including Quinn, Davis, Richardson and Sims) And i like the potential of a to three of McLaurin, Doctson and Harmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/18/2019 at 5:36 PM, TheShredder said: That I also agree with. When you look at all things considered Josh has to play with more confidence and in his more recent game tape you can see that he was playing more aggressive. He's not going to get separation, as that's not what he has ever done. Rather, he runs his routes and is supposed to win 50/50 balls. Alex Smith never threw him a 50/50 ball more that was remotely catchable. Mainly because that's not Alex's game. Now, Case will definitely throw him 50/50's. Not sure about Haskins. I'd be interested in a route tree percentage chart for Doctson because late in the year or seemed he was running more hooks and across the middle type routes than the jump balls. I know his game isn't the power guy but i did like seeing him in those roles. But I ultimately think Jay isn't a big fan of his because he doesn't have position versatility, so I've only heard of him at X as opposed to others who can camouflage a lineup and go almost anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: I'd be interested in a route tree percentage chart for Doctson because late in the year or seemed he was running more hooks and across the middle type routes than the jump balls. I know his game isn't the power guy but i did like seeing him in those roles. But I ultimately think Jay isn't a big fan of his because he doesn't have position versatility, so I've only heard of him at X as opposed to others who can camouflage a lineup and go almost anywhere I was looking at the Arizona game for a different reason than Doctson but could have sworn I saw Doctson play Z for a play, I'll double check later. The play i was just looking at had Doctson play inside in a spread formation with Thompson ironically on the outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/12/2019 at 5:44 PM, Owls0325 said: WR- (6)- Richardson, McLaurin, Quinn, Harmon, Doctson, Chesson, Quick, C Sims, S Sims, Davis Summary- Before the draft this would have gone down as one of the weakest units on the redskins roster. Richardson and McLaurin look like the only real locks to make the roster which means that competition for places should be high across camp. However I would expect Quinn and Harmon both to make the roster there is the potential for Doctson to be cut which would save only 620,000 however this would only happen if Doctson is soundly beaten in training camp as the Redskins will continue to search for compensatory picks which could come from Doctson having an upward year. Players need to steep up here particular with a new QB at the helm. The Redskins also picked up Kenny Britt in FA. Have a feeling that's camp fod to give Case a familiar WR. Either way, this is a tough one. I agree with the first four. But Cam Sims is outta here if the Redskins think they can stash him on the practice squad. To me, Davis is just a 6'3 player that looks the part but can't stay healthy. He was drafted in the 6th round for goodness sake. If he's healthy enough, give him and Chesson a fair look in the preseason. Move on if they only provide equal ability as the guys you just picked up. I agree, we've seen enough from Doctson even with the revolving door at the QB position. I think you keep 5 WRs on the active roster - the four you picked and C Sims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 On 5/13/2019 at 7:36 PM, kingdaddy said: That would be a huge mistake. People haven't done their research before talking down about Doctson. Watch the tape. Evaluate the QB vs the route assignment. Look at the personnel in the package. Put that all together, before making a statement about a players overall evaluation. Doctson hasn't been put into the right situation to take advantage of what he does best. In criticism for what Doctson hasn't done until you evaluate his last set of games, it comes down to aggressiveness and probably immaturity. He didn't breakout in college until his 3rd year. He didn't play in his rookie year, so this is his 3rd full NFL season. There's just too much risk to take the gamble on the 5th year option...I get it. That has nothing to do with how his progression has been slow historically and how expectations based on that would make you bullish on Doctson in his 3rd year, healthy, increasingly aggressive, and paired with more talented receivers on the field at the same time. It matters. There's no way Jay Gruden cuts Josh Doctson. Zero chance of that. Don't get me wrong, as I'm not a Josh Doctson fan. I'm just stating what I see and connecting the dots with all things considered. I believe he's an average #2 or good #3 NFL WR at his best. My expectations on the high side are 750-900 yards with 6-8 TDs. All that said, he's not a playmaker, he drops balls and he's quick to step out of bounds. We can only speak to what we've witnessed. Everything else is hope and excuses. IMO, the only reason he's still here is because he was taken too early in the draft (creating opportunities that would otherwise be voided). Otherwise, this coaching staff (that has every piece of tape on him) would still be high on him. This interview says a lot at the 1:25 mark (all be it last offseason). Notice Gruden stumble and talk himself into thinking he has a good receiving corp (we really do). He does say Doctson needed more opportunities. To me, that actually says he hasn't produced. If he's not going to start, why keep him? If he does start, we've got bigger problems IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, joeken24 said: The Redskins also picked up Kenny Britt in FA. Have a feeling that's camp fod to give Case a familiar WR. Kenny Britt never signed with the Skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 33 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: Kenny Britt never signed with the Skins I stand corrected. Which makes it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said: I'm curious, in what ways or areas exactly, does it help a WR's game, to get jacked up ? Is he gonna be our #1 blocking receiver ? Our #1 special teams banger ? How does it help him in receptions ? Maybe YAC ? I was just saying that the guy is clearly taking care of himself. Also, this is a good candidate for a transition to TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.