WP: FBI accuses wealthy parents, including celebrities, in college-entrance bribery scheme

[Bang]

College is a business and has been since i  can recall. 

It exists primarily to separate you from your money,,  and of course, teach you what you pay for.. but PAY is the operative word.

 

yeah, it isn't fair..  but frankly, i don 't see it any differently than any other business.

The paradigm is wrong if you are in the business of higher education for all. But they aren't.

Believing they are is naive. 

 

And as with most things in this country,, the more it costs, the bigger the lie behind it. the lie behind this is they exist to educate. They don't. They exist for profit

 

Doesn't make it right, but all the surprise I'm seeing at the latest example of how money creates privilege is rather silly.

I know I am a cynic's cynic. Things like this are why. Things like this are the norm for our society... and you won't change it. Greed isn't going anywhere, no matter how much anyone wishes for it.. and greed will always work to keep you out of the game unless you an buy your way in. 

Folk probably get tired of my anger.

Well, this sort of thing we are impotent against. So we can rail and thrash and demand and create regulations and whatever we want, and tomorrow if some Hollywood actor waves a big fat check to get their dumb**** inbred offspring into the spot your merit earned you.. well guess what's going to happen?
 

And when we discover it again and get all in a huff again .... they will do it again.

and so on .. and so on.. and so on until the end of time or money, whichever comes first. you can fire everyone involved. The next will do it too. 

 

Almost nothing in America is based on merit. If you have money you can buy all the merit you need, and erase it from those who have earned it with the stroke of a check.

 

Land of opportunity...   if you can afford it. 

because you can't cash merit and buy a boat with it.

 

 

as it is, our society preys on our youth. College is a great way to saddle them with enormous debt, put them in a pliable position right off the bat. The entire system of how it is done has to change... 

and basic American greed will insure it never does. gotta wonder just how long a society can eat it's kids and remain viable.

As it is, we see the disastrous results of stupidity.. which gives the greedy plenty of motivation to never stop trying to kill intelligence among our population.

 

~Bang

Edited March 13, 2019 by Bang

[Burgold]

When I was in grad school training to be a special educator I had an internship at an affluent Montgomery County High School. I taught and supported kids, began adapting lesson plans and materials from their general classes, and did a bunch of other normal things a teacher is supposed to be. One thing that surprised me was how many parents were suing the school. It was a good school, one of the top in the county, but they were suing it so that their gifted and talented, AP-Taking, honor role kids could take untimed tests.

 

Now, I believe in accommodations and that there are kids who process information differently such that a timed test would not be a fair or true indicator of their ability. However, these were kids who had never needed any supports before and never needed any accommodations. They never demonstrated a hint of any cognitive disability. It seemed perverse to me. I mean, sure, every kid would score better on the SATs if they could take as long as they needed to and over as many days as they needed to, but that's not the point of the "untimed test" accommodation. That accommodation is meant to level the playing ground and make it fairer, to give the child with disabilities a chance to show what they are actually capable of. Still, by the time that I was interning at this school, lawyering up had become pretty much a normalized practice.

 

I don't know if it still goes on. I bet it does. Is it cheating? Is it creating an advantage because only the richest parents can afford these lawyers? What responsibility does the school bare in demonstrating through quantitative and qualitative testing that the child does not have a disability? Is it rotten to put one more burden of testing on special educators backs? They generally have to administer and score psychometric tests, gather annecdotal data, etc on every child who tries to enter the system while at the same time teaching classes, supporting the general educators, adapting materials, etc.

 

I think we all love to beat the system. I think most of us would do anything for our kids. What is being done isn't evil it's just part of something wrong. 

[LD0506]

You're right Bang, but IMO you have to accept that this is basic human nature, let the greedheads greed and then tax the livin **** outta them and use those $$$ to do worthwhile things elsewhere, you know, the way we used to in this country.

[Elessar78]

Worst case of bribery since Lucius Malfoy gave the entire Slytherin Quidditch team Nimbus 2001 sticks so Draco could be the new seeker. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Elessar78

[Elessar78]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

College is a business and has been since i  can recall. 

 

 

~Bang

Part and parcel of what we were talking about in the parenting thread—all parents are trying to give their kid some kind of advantage. Whether it's buying into a good school district, tutors, private school, holding their kid back a year—the bribery is on the far end of a spectrum (the other end being, helping your kid with their homework nightly). 

[Chew]

LOL.

 

 

[DogofWar1]

1 minute ago, Chew said:

LOL.

 

 

 

Well, depends how far back they go.

 

Some big donations suddenly rolled out when it came time for Don Jr to attend college...

[Cooked Crack]

10 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Well, depends how far back they go.

 

Some big donations suddenly rolled out when it came time for Don Jr to attend college...

Kushner too.

[tshile]

I’m glad this has been exposed and people will get in trouble for it

 

but I just always assumed this crap was going on. Sort of like the corruption in the NCAA d1 sports. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

21 minutes ago, tshile said:

but I just always assumed this crap was going on. Sort of like the corruption in the NCAA d1 sports. 

 

Its actually all levels of NCAA sports if you are talking admissions. Again from that article I linked from the Chronicle of Higher Educatiob:

 

Quote

M y mentor once cautioned me about department politics: "The lower the stakes," she said, "the more disproportionately deep the investment." When I asked why this was the case, she sighed as if to suggest the answer was beside the point. The same can be said about liberal-arts universities and Division III athletics. I think about "early decision II," which tended to favor — in shocking and undeniable fashion — underqualified white men because they might (no "athletic scholarships" at the D-III level, so no binding commitment) flex their so-so, non-revenue-producing athletic talents. We applied lenient standards to those with high athletic ratings (a coach would assign a ranking, much like a music professor might rank a prodigious violinist, or the development office might rank an applicant’s parents’ potential to be megadonors). Those with high rankings but academic credentials far too substandard to gain admission by committee often disappeared from the pile entirely, to be vetted by a separate "committee" that consisted of fewer deans, one of whom served as a liaison to the athletic department. Here the coaches would use what we called "tips"; if a coach needed an athlete who was clearly unqualified for admission, the coach could "tip" that athlete into the class.  

 

This system favored underwhelming white male candidates more than anyone else. White female athletes who were unspectacular candidates were still generally qualified enough to get admitted the traditional way in a pool as diluted as early decision II. I witnessed the cynical and manipulative strategy of deferring black male athletes to general committee, their cases then championed on the grounds of increasing diversity. This saved tips in the athletic committee for more underqualified white men, while robbing black students in the regular committee who didn’t run, dribble, or tackle of a terrific opportunity, thus dealing a double (or is it triple? quadruple?) blow to the spirit and integrity of the entire process while subverting the purported standards of the institution. What value should be ascribed to athletic prowess at a liberal-arts university? Does athletic talent justify undermining the admissions process, and displacing a significant number of better-qualified applicants who are more in step with an institution’s mission?

 

 

The people who got arrested is juicy and headline grabbing, but the bigger story is that America isn’t a meritocracy. It’s not that you cannot make it into something bigger and successful than where you were born. It’s that the game is rigged to make you go through major hurdles and pitfalls to get there. The obstacles that aren’t in the way for the wealthy. It sort of feels like winning the lottery. The lesser affluent you are the less like you will ever get a winning ticket. Meanwhile the wealthy have all the winning lottery tickets in their back pocket and will use it when necessary.

Edited March 13, 2019 by BenningRoadSkin

[LD0506]

But no matter how counterintuitive it might seem, this is a GOOD thing! To have this coming out, an FBI case with names being named, this **** is getting some traction and needs to be admitted. Comment after comment here says that they always figured it was this way, who's surprised?, same as it always was, etc., so badly that it is a cliche. So let this happen hard, let this lead to dozens fired from top tier schools, let those schools race to get out from under as they rescind diplomas sold and make abject apologies, have the parents indicted for money laundering and bribery with all the attendant conspiracy to _______ charges, have their lawyers disbarred for facilitating it, etc., couldn't happen to a more deserving group.

[PleaseBlitz]

Agree @LD0506

 

Nothing better to stop this practice than prosecuting famous people for doing it.  It will be high-profile, show that the Feds are looking at this, and that anyone caught faces real consequences.  You can't catch everyone, but you can illustrate to everyone that it is a bad idea to consider it.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

 

1

28 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

But no matter how counterintuitive it might seem, this is a GOOD thing! To have this coming out, an FBI case with names being named, this **** is getting some traction and needs to be admitted. Comment after comment here says that they always figured it was this way, who's surprised?, same as it always was, etc., so badly that it is a cliche. So let this happen hard, let this lead to dozens fired from top tier schools, let those schools race to get out from under as they rescind diplomas sold and make abject apologies, have the parents indicted for money laundering and bribery with all the attendant conspiracy to _______ charges, have their lawyers disbarred for facilitating it, etc., couldn't happen to a more deserving group.

I think this is my issue tho, why are we accepting this is normal? "Yeah, its not a meritocracy, duh. I am still going to slave and work hard and push my kids to dream of attending these elite schools knowing that people are conspiring to make sure my child doesn't attend that school." We gotta wake up as people.

 

The other thing is people who argued against affirmative action need to look at these people who do this stuff.

[NoCalMike]

I see a lot of people writing this off simply as "rich people paying colleges to get their kids in, duh!" but form my understanding that isn't all this is, it's actually committing fraud on behalf of the students themselves to make their portfolio look worthy of being admitted to the school.  Documents being faked. If this was simply paying colleges errrrr "donating" money to colleges in exchange for their kids being admitted, this scheme ring would not even be necessary.

[Bang]

I'm all for changing this stuff and righting wrongs and making everything fair for everyone.

But i'm not smart enough to know how to actually change the world.

I'm all for any ideas..   but greed is one nobody has ever figured out.

 

Acceptance isn't really much of a choice. It's just reality.

 

~Bang

 

 

 

[tshile]

Major concern I have : the universities are playing the victim card and getting away with it. 

 

I doubt theyre 100% involved in this the way the parents and the schemers being paid by the parents are, but I think they probably are not victims and are worthy of criticism in the grander scheme of what is and isn’t a fair admissions process

[Bozo the kKklown]

26 minutes ago, Bang said:

I'm all for changing this stuff and righting wrongs and making everything fair for everyone.

But i'm not smart enough to know how to actually change the world.

I'm all for any ideas..   but greed is one nobody has ever figured out.

 

Acceptance isn't really much of a choice. It's just reality.

 

~Bang

 

 

 

If a bunch of us cobble together some sticks, we gotta do what we gotta do.

[The Evil Genius]

I'm not a parent or uber rich...but if I had kids and I wanted to ensure they went to a school of their choosing, I suspect I'd do a lot of questionable stuff to ensure it. 😁

 

That said, this story reminds me how colleges still over rely on a bunk method (SAT scores) for admittance.

 

Edit...and how we are still too caught up in some colleges names/brands.

Edited March 13, 2019 by The Evil Genius

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I see a lot of people writing this off simply as "rich people paying colleges to get their kids in, duh!" but form my understanding that isn't all this is, it's actually committing fraud on behalf of the students themselves to make their portfolio look worthy of being admitted to the school.  Documents being faked. If this was simply paying colleges errrrr "donating" money to colleges in exchange for their kids being admitted, this scheme ring would not even be necessary.

I think most everyone is aware that this is more than "donating" money to colleges, etc.  We are aware it is out and out fraud.  And we STILL aren't surprised.

[ixcuincle]

They faked being student athletes

 

If they just purchased a building or had their kids attend SAT courses it'd be different 

[DCSaints_fan]

5 hours ago, Bang said:

College is a business and has been since i  can recall. 

It exists primarily to separate you from your money,,  and of course, teach you what you pay for.. but PAY is the operative word.

 

yeah, it isn't fair..  but frankly, i don 't see it any differently than any other business.

The paradigm is wrong if you are in the business of higher education for all. But they aren't.

Believing they are is naive. 

 

If universities operate for profit though, they shouldn't get the tax-exemption

[The Evil Genius]

8 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

They faked being student athletes

 

If they just purchased a building or had their kids attend SAT courses it'd be different 

 

Some did. There were 3 phases of this fraud but not everyone charged did all 3. But it appears they all paid for by people claiming them as charitable donations.

 

1) Some parents had people taking tests or changing test scores for their kids.

 

2) Some parents got their kids extra time to take the test by faking disabilities.

 

3) Some parents got their kids admittance by faking athletic careers for their kids.

Edited March 13, 2019 by The Evil Genius

[tshile]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

If a bunch of us cobble together some sticks, we gotta do what we gotta do.

 

This sparks an imagine in my mind of the masses encircling the elites with pitchforks and torches and the elites saying it’s not fair. 

 

And juxtaposing the elites using their wealth to gain an advantage vs the masses using their strength in numbers to gain an advantage. 

 

And the masses repeating back either “life isn’t fair” (something the rest of us are told to get used to, and to an extent I believe in it) or that “what’s fair is fair” (you your money in the veil of “fair”, we’ll use our strength in numbers)

 

 

 

 

[Bang]

17 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

If universities operate for profit though, they shouldn't get the tax-exemption

Great.

Take it away from them. I'm all for it. Hurt them any way you can to try and teach a lesson and create fairness.

 

they will still let rich people bribe their idiot kids in ahead of your straight A less wealthy kid.

 

So far in the entirety of human history, the punishment has yet to be devised to dissuade greed. And the greedy end up in positions of power quite often.

 

Benning has an idea about a bunch of sticks that IS quite promising, though..

 

~Bang

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Some did. There were 3 phases of this fraud but not everyone charged did all 3. But it appears they all paid for by people claiming them as charitable donations.

 

1) Some parents had people taking tests or changing test scores for their kids.

 

2) Some parents got their kids extra time to take the test by faking disabilities.

 

3) Some parents got their kids admittance by faking athletic careers for their kids.

 

I understand the 1st and 2nd points, but I'm fuzzy on the 3rd one and the mechanics of it and how it works.

 

I know, I know, **** deadspin, but when they do some good dirt digging, it's worth it:  https://deadspin.com/here-are-all-the-incredible-details-from-the-college-ad-1833236579

 

So with the third way these people were fraudulent, I understand about lying about their kids athletic accomplishments, which is sickening.  Doctoring photos of Aunt Becky's kid rowing?   But what I don't understand is the colleges giving these kids athletic scholarships (if I'm reading some of these documents correctly, it looks like might have) to kids that have never played a sport.  I get that they were bribed, but...the kids gotta show up to the first day of practice, right?  Like if you look at item #186, USC admitted this kid as a basketball recruit, based off falsified athletic accomplishments.  So...how does it work when you've got a kid admitted as an athletic recruit to your school and they're not on the team?  How the hell is Aunt Becky's kid supposed to coxswain a boat when she's never been in one?  

 

Or are these not scholarships, they're essentially saying "give us money, we'll say your kid tried to get on the team as a walk-on and couldn't hack it and this is all water under the bridge?"

 

I'm curious as to how the charade of letting these kids in as an athlete was supposed to work.  Look at item 297, the water polo coach at USC is saying this kid is going to be the fastest swimmer on the team!   How the hell does this work?  One of these kids got admitted to the track and field team, didn't even know he was a track star!  Another parent BOUGHT WATER POLO GEAR FROM AMAZON AND STAGED A WATER POLO PHOTO SHOOT FOR THEIR KID.