Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Giants II

[KDawg]

Well, yesterday there was a team wearing Redskin jerseys on the field against the Giants.

 

For the first time I can honestly say I'm not sure anything went well. But that doesn't mean that I don't see a silver lining.

 

Chronically injured players are hampering this team just as much as any other reason. The following players are hurt consistently:

 

Chris Thompson

Jamison Crowder

Jordan Reed

Trent Williams (tries to play through)

Morgan Moses (tries to play through)

Shaun Lauvao

 

Of this list, the only one I'd be even remotely hesitant to move forward without is Mr. Williams, although I'd buy the argument that its time to move on from him as well.

 

On this next list are players that aren't worth their current contract value, but could have a place:

 

Josh Norman

 

Next list are players who don't seem to be fitting in:

 

Haha Clinton-Dix

 

A lot of this stuff was glaring while watching the game. Thompson and Crowder's dropped passes really hurt us. Sanchez isn't very good and who knows what Josh Johnson brings us. This has to be things the evaluation group sees and will hopefully be ready to move through with. 

 

Other items of note:

 

Doctson does look like our current best wide receiver. That is a remarkable turn around on his end, and it also speaks to our players at that position in a big way. 

 

The penalties and lack of discipline were glaring.

 

Love the way he was playing or hate it, the minute Alex Smith went down so did this team's ability to win a football game. 

 

Saquon Barkley is fun to watch, but I still hated watching him. 

 

For all the credit I've given the D for it's ability to force turnovers, they skip the fundamental of wrap first, go for the ball second. It results in way too many missed tackles.

 

People put blame on the training staff for the injuries, but to be honest, I think a lot of our injuries are just coming from guys who are routinely injury prone and I'm not sure it can be put on their shoulders. 

 

Jay Gruden made the best case yet for removing him as the head coach. I'm typically a continuity guy but yesterday was ugly in a lot of ways. If the team plans to draft a QB, you'll want a head coach that's going to be around for a bit to coach him up. Is Jay a guy that's going to be around after next season? If not, time to cut bait.

 

At what point is Bruce Allen held responsible for the continued reliance on oft injured players?

 

I watched every minute of the game yesterday. The pain made me feel alive. But man, that was quite the stinker.

[sempre_victrix]

The fact that we have not gotten word of a Jay or Bruce firing tells me all that I need to know about this organization.

 

Snyder does not care about the fans enough to do something about the less than mediocre product he is producing.  He's sticking his middle finger in all of our faces and laughing all the way to the bank.

[kleese]

4 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

The fact that we have not gotten word of a Jay or Bruce firing tells me all that I need to know about this organization.

 

Snyder does not care about the fans enough to do something about the less than mediocre product he is producing.  He's sticking his middle finger in all of our faces and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Meh, I see no point in pulling the trigger right now. One of the big Snyder criticisms in the past was that he was overly reactionary. And there HAVE been some rumblings that he is very upset with Allen and that Bruce could be on his last days. It’s just early to make this call. It’s entirely possible he’s more or less made up his mind and is just allowing the season to play out first. 

[sempre_victrix]

1 minute ago, kleese said:

 

Meh, I see no point in pulling the trigger right now. One of the big Snyder criticisms in the past was that he was overly reactionary. And there HAVE been some rumblings that he is very upset with Allen and that Bruce could be on his last days. It’s just early to make this call. It’s entirely possible he’s more or less made up his mind and is just allowing the season to play out first. 

 

I get that, but I think he needs to do something now, to make a statement to the team and the fans that he's doing something.   Granted, I don't him to do something just for show, I want it to be a true effort at righting the ship.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, kleese said:

 

Meh, I see no point in pulling the trigger right now. One of the big Snyder criticisms in the past was that he was overly reactionary. And there HAVE been some rumblings that he is very upset with Allen and that Bruce could be on his last days. It’s just early to make this call. It’s entirely possible he’s more or less made up his mind and is just allowing the season to play out first. 

 

Agreed. I'm not so gung ho on the "fire them now" bandwagon. 

 

Bruce I think is a no brainer. So I'd be okay with moving on now with him because it gives the new guy to get into position and evaluate a bit.

 

Jay requires some thought. Lots of things to think about there. And a new GM should make that decision. 

 

But there needs to be some changes in the FO, coaching staff and the roster.

 

 

[dballer]

10 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

Meh, I see no point in pulling the trigger right now. One of the big Snyder criticisms in the past was that he was overly reactionary. And there HAVE been some rumblings that he is very upset with Allen and that Bruce could be on his last days. It’s just early to make this call. It’s entirely possible he’s more or less made up his mind and is just allowing the season to play out first. 

 

I think you can go ahead and fire Allen. Easier to finish the season without him, than without Jay. I would go ahead and get rid of Manusky as well. Promote Tomsula. Let Jay finish the year. 

 

Maybe if he who shall not be named goes out tonight and throws for 300 yards and 3 TDs on national TV it might push Danny over the edge to get rid of Bruce...it should at least. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I don’t see how firing Jay today does anything but appease the fans that want his blood.  Other than that, I don’t see any advantages to sending him packing now.  Hell, he might actually enjoy it.

 

Bruce on the other hand, his firing would send a greater message.  It gets an early start on figuring out what the FO is going to look like AND appeases those like me that want him publicly humiliated and fired.  I’m not big on ugly, as we’ve seen too much of it here, but Bruce deserves ugly.

 

As for the game, I totally understand folks clamoring for Smith after watching Mark Sanchez play QB for us. But the whole idea that Alex = winning and everyone else doesn’t is an odd one.  Since Scherff and Lavaou went to IR this team has absolutely no ability to run the football.  Smith doesn’t win games where you cannot run the football.  A lot of QBs don’t.  No QB available to us was going to continue winning given the circumstances.  Our Oline’s propensity for injury coupled with poor depth is the Achilles heel of this football team.

 

As for the defense, I venture a guess we will start getting leaks, if not prior to week 17 definitely after the season is over.  Something is up.  I do believe part of their downfall is teams catching on to the scheme/weaknesses and responding accordingly and even the lack of running game on offense keeping them on the field too long.  But there is more at play here.  Not sure what it is other than lack of team speed and desire to tackle, but drama will come out about this side of the football very soon.

 

 

[NoCalMike]

I hate to be the "still have a chance" guy, because realistically they don't however mathematically they do, just a fact.  Firing the head coach (and other coaches) right now makes no sense.  I want and expect Gruden to be gone the day after the season ends, but I don't see how firing him now does anything to effect the final 3 games of the season.

 

Not to mention that as injury ravaged as the offense is, it's really the defense that has less of an excuse for being awful.  A game against the Giants with no ODB Jr, and they didn't even seem to stack the box to stop Barkley.  They let no name WR's run all over the field making big plays.  Eli threw 3 TDs.  It was disgusting to watch.  I am more convinced firing Manusky today would make a positive impact rather than Gruden being gone.

[TheGreek1973]

Now that I am a little more calm and collected (I mean you can't be calm while watching that atrocity called a team yesterday) i have a couple of things to say.

 

First Bruce Allen.  Seriously how much can one person mess up a team and still have a job?  

Second Gruden.  I was always neutral on him, but man he last lost this team.  He is suppose to be an offensive minded coach and the only thing he can do is bring Sanchez in here who looks like a HS QB.  I am sorry this guy has got to go.

Third, sure we have a horrid offense but what happened to the Defense?  Who is responsible for the mess?  

 

Last the owner of this team.  Have some pride dude, sell the team.

[FrFan]

After Redskins slam their fans, fans turn backs on Redskins

[BurgundyBooger]

1 hour ago, sempre_victrix said:

The fact that we have not gotten word of a Jay or Bruce firing tells me all that I need to know about this organization.

 

Bruce Allen maintains some important ties to the region - most of which through his family - so don't expect him to suffer the embarrassment of a mid-season firing.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 I do believe part of their downfall is teams catching on to the scheme/weaknesses and responding accordingly and even the lack of running game on offense keeping them on the field too long.  But there is more at play here.  Not sure what it is other than lack of team speed and desire to tackle, but drama will come out about this side of the football very soon.

 

 

 

I agree with your post.

 

Defense, yup, seems like teams know how to attack and take advantage = run outside/off tackle and target ILBs in coverage, target a Danny Johnson or some green corner. Seems like teams have been following the same script against our D the last 4-5 games now.

 

Apparently we did bench Zach Brown for SDH. I guess that was our adjustment.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Firing coaches at this point is pointless.

 

Firing Bruce at this point is largely pointless, but pointless in a fun, galvanizing way.

 

Not to make this political, but is there a greater argument about how ridiculous the idea of a meritocracy is in America than Bruce Allen. This guy has been granted a 40 year NFL career because of his name, and I'm not sure you can name one success.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

1 hour ago, dballer said:

 

I think you can go ahead and fire Allen.

 

Maybe if he who shall not be named goes out tonight and throws for 300 yards and 3 TDs on national TV it might push Danny over the edge to get rid of Bruce...it should at least. 

 

 

This is my dream.  Really my dream was that Kirk wins the SB MVP this year and all Viking fans mail Dan and Bruce thank you cards by the thousands which forces Dan to fire Bruce or even sell the team out of shame.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Jay got the first "are you worried about your job security?" question yesterday at the post game presser from Thom Loverro, which, as my esteemed colleague @JimmiJo said "is the kiss of death."

 

I wasn't in the room, JimmiJo was, but apparently Gruden was pissed off by it.  Loverro up in the press box later on was saying he wasn't trying to be an a-hole, just asking what everyone was thinking.

[NoCalMike]

Assuming there is a coaching house cleaning coming at the end of the season anyway, the only coach getting fired right now that would make sense to me is Manusky because he has been here such a short time it doesn't feel like it would effect the team too much and I am sure whoever is the next coach up in-house would mostly be drawing from the same scheme.

 

Gruden needs to be gone, but the fact that Josh Johnson is the QB likely for the rest of the season you'd just be setting up the temporary fill-in coach to be humiliated and possibly have their stock drop. Gruden should be the one to see the ship sink as he is shown the door.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Gruden should be the one to see the ship sink as he is shown the door.  

You make a valid point.

 

For all the folks that hate him so much they think he should be fired today, he’d probably like that.

[skinzplay]

The team president is nothing more than an agent with a legacy name. And he's made a living off that name with little real talent or football acumen to show for it. Pair that with an owner who is enamored with connecting with the team's glory days, and you have a recipe for this kind of "why is he still employed" nonsense. It's a combo of team nostalgia and the president's shrewd ability to make himself seem both football smart and indispensable; he is neither.

 

I agree with you @KDawg......that was one painful, miserable three hours of suffering to watch yesterday. I'm no fan of Sanchez. He was out of the league for a reason, but his supporting cast did him no favors by dropping so many passes in the early going. Let's see what Johnson (also out of the league for a reason) can do for these last few games. But I'm with you completely with cutting bait on Gruden if a new QB is brought in for next season. Cavanaugh can help develop him. I wouldn't leave that responsibility to Gruden. Ken Zampese was working with and developing those QBs in Cincy before Gruden even got there, so I don't buy the Gruden-developed-Dalton line; Dalton was being more than generous and nice in his public comments. Talk to him privately, and the credit goes to Zampese.

 

We need to move on from Hopalong. Dude bumps into a doorknob and is out for 4 weeks. Somebody will trade for him, and I'm sure we can find another good TE in the draft who can help this team. I don't care how talented you are, if you're not on the field, that doesn't do a damn bit of good for the team.

 

When Scherff comes back healthy for next season, there will indeed be tough decisions to make about who to keep around him and Roullier. If it were up to me, I move on from our current situation at RT, period. Keep him only for depth if he's kept at all. I appreciate all that Williams has done, and the dude is still a beast when healthy (and better than half the league's LTs even when hurt).......but there comes a time to prepare to move on.

 

One key question -- do you trust a talented young roster to this coaching staff (with the exception of Tomsula)? For me, the answer is no. We're going to waste some precious time with development of these guys if we leave Gruden at the helm. This chummy, come on over for the bbq attitude/atmosphere of his is not conducive to accountability.

[clskinsfan]

13 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Assuming there is a coaching house cleaning coming at the end of the season anyway, the only coach getting fired right now that would make sense to me is Manusky because he has been here such a short time it doesn't feel like it would effect the team too much and I am sure whoever is the next coach up in-house would mostly be drawing from the same scheme.

 

Gruden needs to be gone, but the fact that Josh Johnson is the QB likely for the rest of the season you'd just be setting up the temporary fill-in coach to be humiliated and possibly have their stock drop. Gruden should be the one to see the ship sink as he is shown the door.  

 

That doesnt really matter as whoever gets named temporary coach is going to be gone at the end of the year anyways if you fire Gruden. For me you shouldnt fire Gruden if you dont fire Allen at the same time. They have both had more than enough time to turn this franchise around. It is time for both of them to go.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

I just dont care.

 

Whats the point of dissecting what went wrong, how to fix, who to bring in, etc. 

 

None of it matters. We are just wasting our job careers being on here instead of being a productive worker.

 

Fire Bruce, dont fire Bruce. What will magically change?

 

Until this team gets a young Qb with franchise potential .. nothing else really matters. Without a top 10-15ish QB, everything else has to be perfect and the margin for error much too great for a franchise like this.

 

Im real close to checking out until we get a young QB with potential.

 

Wish the Baltimore Skipjacks still existed.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, sempre_victrix said:

The fact that we have not gotten word of a Jay or Bruce firing tells me all that I need to know about this organization.

 

Snyder does not care about the fans enough to do something about the less than mediocre product he is producing.  He's sticking his middle finger in all of our faces and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Whatever he decides to do, I'm glad he's not making changes based on what he thinks the fans want to see. We could be (and probably are) right in this case, but we are going to be wrong much more likely than not. So, if we have an owner firing and hiring people based on our reaction, we are in even deeper trouble than we seem to be now. 

[fearlessNelms]

Everybody knows we are in an impossible situation with our O and if our D doesn't play a bang up game, we can't win. Last Monday night against Philly & yesterday were still meaningful games for us and the D was as lifeless as could be. That opening drive last Monday when Philly ate up half the first quarter before scoring a TD set the tone for that game & yesterday the D did nothing good at all. I put the lack of enthusiasm and effort from the D on Manusky. I've said it on here a dozen times and I'll say it again- The guy has been fired from his 3 previous defensive coordinator jobs for a reason! The dudes a LB coach masquerading as a DC- fire him immediately! 

 

And whether he just doesn't fit in or he just can't play, this Ha Ha Clinton Dix guy is trash. Is all I ever see is the back of his jersey- play after play. This dude makes Adam Archuletta look like he was a good safety for us after we picked him up and we all know how bad he was.

 

 

[superozman]

Injury List - I'd suggest removing Crowder - he played in 47/48 games before this year.  And for me, I'd be hesitant without Thompson/williams/moses.

 

Norman should stay, agree, and Haha is an easy don't resign for me.  Nicholson back in as starter next year.

 

Penalties have been my biggest issue.  Really stupid ones too.  i'm not talking about ones in difficult spots, or iffy calls.  I'm meaning drive killers on Offense, and drive extenders on defense.  we've had way too many this year.

 

I'm a big big believer in continuity as well.  And to a fault sometimes.  But seriously.  It's time for Bruce Allen to go.  Ive had it.  He's had control of the team in 2010 and did some good things, that I liked.  Go all in for RG3, I liked the Shanny hire, I liked the Gruden hire.  I did not like the handling of SM, and I really haven't seen the progress under him.  

 

Personally - i want to move on from Allen or if he's around he's in a position of not so much influence.  My target is Joe Douglas:

 

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/joe-douglas-the-eagles-top-scout-has-climbed-the-ranks-to-become-one-of-the-nfls-top-talent-evaluators-20180423.html

[LoDown91]

Watching Gruden in the post game conference yesterday, he just looks like a guy who has had his soul eaten away by the toxicity of the culture that has gone on here for 20+ years. Jay has definitely played a part though and it's time to pull the plug. Look at your stadium for cripes sake. Fans have jumped ship and as far as Bruce Allen goes, I never thought I would see anything worse than Vinny but its here and he needs to be kicked to the curb immediately

 

[sempre_victrix]

36 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Whatever he decides to do, I'm glad he's not making changes based on what he thinks the fans want to see. We could be (and probably are) right in this case, but we are going to be wrong much more likely than not. So, if we have an owner firing and hiring people based on our reaction, we are in even deeper trouble than we seem to be now. 

 

It has nothing to do with what the fans want to have happen except put a competitive team on the field.  If Jay and Bruce had us in the playoffs every year, no one would complain. But the combo has produced this laughingstock that culminated in them being rectally relieved by one of the most underpowered teams in the NFL, who also happened to be missing key players.  And, apparently, it still wasn't enough for Dan to make a statement to the fans that it will no longer be tolerated.