NYT: Explosive Devices Found in Mail Sent to Hillary Clinton and Obama

[visionary]

ok....

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Full blown domestic terrorism.  You are right that this is the way it's going.  And I honestly don't know how to stop it.  It only takes a couple of terrorists to do tremendous harm and right wing radicalism is mainstream.  We already have so many mass shootings as is.

 

 

Good guy with a gun?

[Popeman38]

5 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

If you don't believe in freedom. If you believe yelling at someone in a restaurant or saying someone is not civil - and ironically those monsters are proving Clinton's point - is the same as committing violent acts like driving a car into protesters, sending bombs to anyone who disagrees with you politically, etc, then you are not in alignment with American values then you are a sympathizer and an apologists. I am tired of sugarcoating and being nice and hoping that some of the sound people can see actual reason and have empathy. 

Look, you need to ****ing read my posts in this thread. I said very clearly that every Republican and every Democrat needs to be in front of a camera denouncing this. WITHOUT mentioning politics.  I am not a sympathizer. And be honest, you don't sugarcoat a damn thing when you say **** to people you disagree with.  You have called me a straight up racist in the 'Cops that need to be fired' thread for disagreeing with you. 

 

I did 8 years in the Army, and deployed twice, so don't talk to me about believing in freedom.  I have not once defended any of the actions of the Charlottesville mob. I am very much anti-Trump, and recognize that he is not a true Republican or conservative. His brand of "Republican" have hijacked an American political party, and I believe elections have consequences. I hope a blue wave takes the house, at least.

 

But let's be real. The Democrats are talking in ways that Democrats accused Republicans of encouraging violence just a couple years ago (i.e. before Trump). Trump is gonna Trump. But with all of this talking, a Republican Congressional candidate in California was attacked by a man with a switchblade (https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/East-Bay-GOP-Rep-Candidate-Attacked-in-Castro-Valley-492984891.html). This happened a month and a half ago. Steve Scalise was almost killed in an attack on a baseball field. Politically motivated attacks are increasing, on both sides of the aisle. I know, what-about-ism, both-sides-ism. It isn't a popular position. But you, and others, have openly declared one side of the aisle the enemy of the country. Meanwhile, you **** about the President declaring the media the enemy of the country. Yes, the President has a much bigger platform than you. Yes, the President of the United States should be held to higher standard than a random internet poster. Yes, the President needs to behave like a responsible adult and govern the entire country, not just host rallies with people frothing at the mouth.

 

I don't give two ****s if random people on an internet board disagree with my opinion. In fact, I tend to gravitate towards people that don't agree with me so I can learn things.  I don't live in a bubble (except the NOVA bubble), I try to have honest debate on things we disagree on, and have even changed my opinion on things over time (death penalty to name one).  My opinion in this thread is not popular, but I stand by it. Come at me with why I'm wrong. Keep your insults and broad brush bull**** to yourself.

[No Excuses]

The worst people in America are in power:

 

 

[NoCalMike]

Trump JR liked a tweet from "USANEWS007" so he can pretty much stop ever claiming about "Fake News"

[No Excuses]

8 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

I am very much anti-Trump, and recognize that he is not a true Republican or conservative. 

 

 

 

Laughably false and maybe the dumbest thing I’ve read on here in a while. 

 

The person who is the ****ing POTUS, the leader of the Republican Party, voted by conservatives into power, is apparently not a true Republican or conservative. 

 

This explains your bending backwards to make it a both sides issue. Living in denial about conservatism in America.

[Popeman38]

6 hours ago, No Excuses said:

Only one side is celebrating political violence at campaign rallies, through its media channels and openly courting fascists. Since this concept seems to be over your head:

 

1. The Dems have a crazy faction that is largely relegated to the periphery of the party.

 

2. The GOP leadership, in politics and media, is driving the crazy train. 

 

You seem to want to equate the two. The rest of us are calling you out on your bull****. Make sense?

It ain't over my head. Democrats receiving bombs in the mail is bad.  Likewise a GOP candidate being attacked is bad. Likewise Steve Scalise being attacked is bad. Likewise, Gabby Gifford being attacked is bad. Politically motivated attacks are not a new course of action in this country. The scale for this incident is larger than usual (the usual is a single politician).  The "crazies" are in the periphery, otherwise you would see these attacks happen all the time. The vast, vast, vast majority of American who vote will never physically attack a politician, or mail them a bomb. Trump has hijacked a party, and if you read many political threads you would have seen me suggest that everyone vote in 2 weeks and make that party pay for electing Trump. 

 

And FYI, violence against a politician is violence against a politician. They are inherently equal. 

[Jumbo]

good posts in this recent page or two and lots of valid points being made---let's watch the temperature as it continues

 

allow for expression to not always work well---people interpret what they read; not always correctly

 

popeman is a smart dude obviously but what should be equally obvious if you read him is he's no rightwing nut or even close 

 

same for benning, obviously, lefty-wise...and remember to color within the lines, benning

 

 

 

 

[Popeman38]

9 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Laughably false and maybe the dumbest thing I’ve read on here in a while. 

 

The person who is the ****ing POTUS, the leader of the Republican Party, voted by conservatives into power, is apparently not a true Republican or conservative. 

 

This explains your bending backwards to make it a both sides issue. Living in denial about conservatism in America.

So, is Bernie Sanders a Democrat?  Not everything is black and white in life, there is quite a bit of grey area. Donald Trump was a registered Democrat in the 2000's - 8 of the 10 years in the decade. Donald Trump is whatever he needs to be to acquire status and power.  There is a name for people like him: RINO. That's been around for years. And Trump damn sure isn't a conservative. Republicans as a whole abandoned conservatives years ago. 

[Jumbo]

 

 

added: i agree that the both sides are the same stuff as absolute nonsense and worse...but popeman is making valid points with some of the examples he's using....one side is way worse than the other...but the other isn't without  issues that should get some mention to have credibility in criticizing the other side, even while avoiding false equivalence 

 

 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

9 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Laughably false and maybe the dumbest thing I’ve read on here in a while. 

 

The person who is the ****ing POTUS, the leader of the Republican Party, voted by conservatives into power, is apparently not a true Republican or conservative. 

 

This explains your bending backwards to make it a both sides issue. Living in denial about conservatism in America.

He's right. Today's GOP represents neither Republican nor conservative values. They are a ****ization of Republicanism.

[Larry]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He's right. Today's GOP represents neither Republican nor conservative values. They are a ****ization of Republicanism.

 

Sorry. I'd buy that if it weren't for the pesky fact that the only thing Trump has done that has not been GOP policy since Reagan is sucking up to Russia. 

[NoCalMike]

I'm on board completely with Conservatives who are ashamed that Trump is leading the GOP.  I believe most of them are genuinely embarrassed he is the President.  The issue I have is how quickly the party itself became the Trump party.   The 2016 primaries were the first opportunity for the GOP at large to reject this guy.  The second opportunity was the 2016 Presidential election.  Now we have the mid-terms where the only way to put a dent into Trump's crazy train is flipping the house.  If that doesn't happen there is 2020.

 

I don't know if the overwhelming GOP support for Trump has more to do with tribalism itself, or if all these people actually support the man himself.  I also am not sure if the increasing GOP support for him is more a result of less people overall identifying themselves as "Republican" so the ones leftover, still willing to call themselves that, are pushing further to the right.

 

All I do know is that until the GOP at large rejects the guy, it is hard to take temporary "outrage" about him serious coming from moderate Republicans.  (Not talking about people on this board, I am talking about the people going to bat for him on a daily basis over everything.  The ones who have seemed to full purchased their ticket to fantasy land in order to defend the guy) 

[RedskinsFan44]

23 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

So, is Bernie Sanders a Democrat?  Not everything is black and white in life, there is quite a bit of grey area. Donald Trump was a registered Democrat in the 2000's - 8 of the 10 years in the decade. Donald Trump is whatever he needs to be to acquire status and power.  There is a name for people like him: RINO. That's been around for years. And Trump damn sure isn't a conservative. Republicans as a whole abandoned conservatives years ago. 

Bernie Sanders does not call himself a Democrat. Part of why members of the Democratic Party favored Hillary. He has had influence but was unsuccessful in his takeover bid.

What the two parties stand for has always been in flux. That's why it's disingenuous to lay pre Civil Rights Act policies of the Democrats on today's party, and why Republicans are no longer the party they were under Eisenhower. Snippet from the 1956 R platform:

"The Republican Party supports an immigration policy which is in keeping with the traditions of America in providing a haven for oppressed peoples, and which is based on equality of treatment, freedom from implications of discrimination between racial, nationality and religious groups, and flexible enough to conform to changing needs and conditions.

We believe that such a policy serves our self-interest, reflects our responsibility for world leadership and develops maximum cooperation with other nations in resolving problems in this area."

 

Trump has taken the rhetoric of Fox, Limbaugh et al and made it reality. He has been a king maker in R primaries this election cycle. It's going to take a while to wash away that taint.

[Bozo the kKklown]

19 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Sorry. I'd buy that if it weren't for the pesky fact that the only thing Trump has done that has not been GOP policy since Reagan is sucking up to Russia. 

or since Barry Goldwater.

[NoCalMike]

Not fan of Rand Paul necessarily, but he had it right when he said Trump is a fake straight shooter, because he doesn't use the truth.   

 

Anyone can "tell it like it is" if "like it is" is completely made up.  In his case "like it is" is merely whatever he hears on Fox & Friends or right wing radio.

 

For Trump this is all just his latest con.  Get up on the stage and say whatever you think sounds good in the moment, do a complete 180 on anything that doesn't go over well.

[Springfield]

They’re still voting for state republicans who enable this kind of bull****.

 

If they’re so ashamed of him, perhaps they could vote for a more centrist party, like the democrat party.

[Jumbo]

there will have to be quite a bit of stuff yet to happen before the violence/anger level gets like the 60's

 

if trump were to read that he'd take it as a challenge

[Popeman38]

44 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Bernie Sanders does not call himself a Democrat. Part of why members of the Democratic Party favored Hillary. He has had influence but was unsuccessful in his takeover bid.

What the two parties stand for has always been in flux. That's why it's disingenuous to lay pre Civil Rights Act policies of the Democrats on today's party, and why Republicans are no longer the party they were under Eisenhower. Snippet from the 1956 R platform:

"The Republican Party supports an immigration policy which is in keeping with the traditions of America in providing a haven for oppressed peoples, and which is based on equality of treatment, freedom from implications of discrimination between racial, nationality and religious groups, and flexible enough to conform to changing needs and conditions.

We believe that such a policy serves our self-interest, reflects our responsibility for world leadership and develops maximum cooperation with other nations in resolving problems in this area."

 

Trump has taken the rhetoric of Fox, Limbaugh et al and made it reality. He has been a king maker in R primaries this election cycle. It's going to take a while to wash away that taint.

Bernie Sanders was a registered Democrat during the 2016 campaign season (he enrolled and then unenrolled later). If he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have been able to appear on some states ballot for primaries. Now he is an Independent. But he will run for re-election in Vermont as a Democrat, win the nomination, decline the nomination, and run in the general as an Independent. See, it’s complicated.

 

Trump was a Rep, a Dem, and now a Rep again. He had never run for office before, so why would that be?  I don’t think the Republican Party will ever recover from this. Ever. And it’s their own damn fault. I wish any of the 10 other jokers that ran against him for the nomination had simply stood up to him. They do that, and don’t back down, Trump is never nominated. The “never Trumpers” would have won the party. But that is another thread’s story....

[Popeman38]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Sorry. I'd buy that if it weren't for the pesky fact that the only thing Trump has done that has not been GOP policy since Reagan is sucking up to Russia. 

Trump has proclaimed himself “very, very flexible on a great number of issues,” so I’m not sure where this hard line GOP policy angle is coming from. Trump is way left of traditional GOP opinions on entitlement programs. Trump has his own policy platform that is both conservative and liberal, and policies that are both depending on which day of the week it is. 

[Springfield]

9 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Trump has proclaimed himself “very, very flexible on a great number of issues,” so I’m not sure where this hard line GOP policy angle is coming from. Trump is way left of traditional GOP opinions on entitlement programs. Trump has his own policy platform that is both conservative and liberal, and policies that are both depending on which day of the week it is. 

 

Trump favors the policy of the last person to speak into his ear.

[LadySkinsFan]

His "policies that seem left leaning" are mere electioneering sloganism.

 

He's not going to do anything about drug prices or anything that will help actual humans in the 99 percentile.

[Larry]

12 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Trump has proclaimed himself “very, very flexible on a great number of issues,” so I’m not sure where this hard line GOP policy angle is coming from. Trump is way left of traditional GOP opinions on entitlement programs. Trump has his own policy platform that is both conservative and liberal, and policies that are both depending on which day of the week it is. 

 

I'm basing it on what's actually been passed since he's been in office. On the executive orders he's issued. The people he's appointed. The things he's said. The actions he's proposed. 

[Jumbo]

off the top of my head, standard hard line gop policies pushed under trump:

 

1.  immigration 

2. tax cut for corps/wealthy

3. gut all agencies (reduce gov size, dramatically cutting services/protections)

4. huge military-industrial money flow

5. make the gov't/nation more xtian

6. set sights on soc sec and medicare

 

 

it goes on with newer gop touchstones like kill health care, get out of iran deal, get extreme-conservative activist judges everywhere possible, etc

 

gee, popeman, how hard  was that?:)

 

he's not an ideologue about it and has his own motives but the gopers sold what souls they had because they hoped he was gonna be their wet dream after the election if they could manage him...and they're happy enough with the ride, overall... ...it's the classic xtian principle at work...the ends justify the means...