Game Day Thread - NFC East FIRST PLACE Redskins VS dem bois

[bakedtater1]

We've shut Zeke and McCaffrey down in back to back weeks..defense looking good!!

[Hdf561]

I don’t think anyone is being negative just being REAL! If you can’t handle real then I don’t know what to tell you.... 

 

We had the game won signed sealed delivered and we let them back in just like Carolina...if your ok with that style then fine but I want games where we put them away! I don’t want to win by three I want to win by 14. 

 

I am am glad we won, it’s awesome! But this lack of offense is not sustainable the rest of the way. I don’t just want to win the NFC East I want playoff wins, NFC Championships and Super Bowls....if your ok with just being NFC east champ then great but I’m not I want to experience a 4th Super Bowl, I want my kids who have only seen us suck see what I saw as a kid a dominant franchise that wins Super Bowls. I won’t settle for less, if you do fine enjoy average. 

 

4-2with a lot of work to do! 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I can’t stand gruden but I love beating the cowboys ?

 

Allen has done a good job getting talent for the team. It’s all gruden not using the talent the proper way.

He has no clue how to use his talent.

I know @Morneblade likes to say @HardcoreZorn is Bruce, but...

 

I’ve never seen anyone go this far and say anything like this.

[ddub52]

1 minute ago, Hdf561 said:

I don’t think anyone is being negative just being REAL! If you can’t handle real then I don’t know what to tell you.... 

 

We had the game won signed sealed delivered and we let them back in just like Carolina...if your ok with that style then fine but I want games where we put them away! I don’t want to win by three I want to win by 14. 

 

I am am glad we won, it’s awesome! But this lack of offense is not sustainable the rest of the way. I don’t just want to win the NFC East I want playoff wins, NFC Championships and Super Bowls....if your ok with just being NFC east champ then great but I’m not I want to experience a 4th Super Bowl, I want my kids who have only seen us suck see what I saw as a kid a dominant franchise that wins Super Bowls. I won’t settle for less, if you do fine enjoy average. 

 

4-3 with a lot of work to do! 

4-2

[Cooleyfan1993]

Pssstttt @Hdf561....where’s that 3rd L coming from? Do tell  

[mistertim]

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what we don't like. Some would rather lose pretty with a QB who puts up 400+ yards and a defense that allows 200+ yards rushing than win with a QB who throws for 150 and a defense that holds a top rusher in the league to 34 yards. 

 

This is exactly what we saw under Brunell. Gibbs 2 teams would win with Portis playing beautifully and Brunell doing almost nothing (except for the 2 TDs to Moss) but we'd win. Same for Cambpell and Collins. We're riding the horse called AP and the defense. Alex is getting adjusted and when we need him to mount one of these drives like we demanded from Cam or from Dak, we'll see how he looks. He didn't do well against the Colts. Otherwise this is our identity. 

 

 

I don't think anyone would rather lose with a QB putting up big stats than win with one putting up meh stats. It's more a couple of issues:

 

1) Thinking about just how good we could be if we had this defense as well as a non-anemic offense.

 

2) Knowing that these squeaker games where our offense doesn't produce for crap, our defense has to carry the team, and we get some lucky breaks are not always going to go our way so this still feels more like an 8-8 team. Which isn't bad, but we've been consistently mediocre with Gruden at the helm.

 

We can ride with the defense and with AP carrying the load and Alex not doing much but not turning the ball over but IMO that ain't gonna get us any farther than perhaps a playoff appearance due to a crappy conference. But we certainly aren't going to the SB with it. 

 

I'm happy as hell about beating Dallas. I just have so many frustrations still about this team. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

14 minutes ago, Burgold said:

When was the last time a Redskins' run D could do that against any runner?

Did you forget last weeks game already? 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is what we don't like. Some would rather lose pretty with a QB who puts up 400+ yards and a defense that allows 200+ yards rushing than win with a QB who throws for 150 and a defense that holds a top rusher in the league to 34 yards. 

 

This is exactly what we saw under Brunell. Gibbs 2 teams would win with Portis playing beautifully and Brunell doing almost nothing (except for the 2 TDs to Moss) but we'd win. Same for Cambpell and Collins. We're riding the horse called AP and the defense. Alex is getting adjusted and when we need him to mount one of these drives like we demanded from Cam or from Dak, we'll see how he looks. He didn't do well against the Colts. Otherwise this is our identity. 

 

 

 

 

I’m fine with everything that happened in the first 54 minutes of the game.

 

Then, in completely predictable Gruden wussy fashion, we changed what we were doing defensively and gave up a score, then completely failed on the next drive to 1. Get a first down and 2. To make Dallas use all their TOs.

 

Horrifc, play not to lose, predictable crap ass coaching from Gruden.

 

The only reason we won is because of a bizarre penalty on the long snapper and Garrett is probably a worse coach than Gruden.  

 

I’m thrilled with the win, but make no mistake, Gruden TRIED to cost his team a game today but the opponent refused to let him.

 

I don’t mind ugly wins if you’re smart about it.  The last 6 minutes came a 5 yard “simulating the snap” penalty from OT and a very possible loss.  Or tie.  

 

Which is inexcusable up 10 with 6 minutes left the way the defense was playing.  Inexcusable.

[Veretax]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

 Dallas is being over-hyped, as usual, by the media, and an unfortunate kick by their kicker cost them the game, well the previous play where the center moved the ball costing them 5 yds is what REALLY cost them.

I don't have confidence in Smith, he's starting to look more and more like a game manager, not a true QB. Gruden, well, he got lucky this week, but ****ty play calling like that will cost the team the needed wins in December, and if they manage to get into the paloffs, they will be bounced in the WC round. AP and Reed and Davis is the only offense this team has.

Every time Dallas got flagged you could tell the CBS folks were just salivating all over Dallas.  

I don't think the issue is Smith, I think the issue is early play calling.  Radio play by play said in the first half we had something like 8 first down runds in a row...... Talk about predictible.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

We can ride with the defense and with AP carrying the load and Alex not doing much but not turning the ball over but IMO that ain't gonna get us any farther than perhaps a playoff appearance due to a crappy conference. But we certainly aren't going to the SB with it. 

I don’t honestly think Gruden or Allen’s goal is the SB.  It’s to not get fired.

 

if I could do one thing to help this team it would be force Gruden to watch film of the mid-2000 colts with Peyton when they were in close games and had to kill clock.  They were SO good at it.  Mix or run and safe passes, got up to the line early, motioned a few times, never snapped the ball with more than 1 or 2 seconds left, never let the defense KNOW a run was coming.  It was sheer brilliance.  And while Peyton is an all-timer, what made it brilliant was that it was unpredictable, so it was more successful.

 

Jay just likes to run into a brick wall twice, then try to pick up a 3rd and 6-8, and if it’s incomplete, you’ve stopped the clock.

 

Their way was better.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m fine with everything that happened in the first 54 minutes of the game.

 

Then, in completely predictable Gruden wussy fashion, we changed what we were doing defensively and gave up a score, then completely failed on the next drive to 1. Get a first down and 2. To make Dallas use all their TOs.

 

Horrifc, play not to lose, predictable crap ass coaching from Gruden.

 

The only reason we won is because of a bizarre penalty on the long snapper and Garrett is probably a worse coach than Gruden.  

 

I’m thrilled with the win, but make no mistake, Gruden TRIED to cost his team a game today but the opponent refused to let him.

 

I don’t mind ugly wins if you’re smart about it.  The last 6 minutes came a 5 yard “simulating the snap” penalty from OT and a very possible loss.  Or tie.  

 

Which is inexcusable up 10 with 6 minutes left the way the defense was playing.  Inexcusable.

 

Exactly. And IMO coaching not to lose is going to end up with nothing but mediocrity.

 

Which is precisely what we have been with Gruden since he's been here. 

 

The thing about Gruden, for me, is that I don't mind him at all as a play schemer. IMO he's actually pretty good at coming up with plays that can get guys open. His issue is play calling in-game; he just sucks at it because he's so damn scared and predictable most of the time. If we had him coming up with a playbook and a much more aggressive coach calling the plays, I think I'd be fine with it. 

 

Though we'd still have Alex, who still seems incredibly hesitant to pull the trigger when a guy isn't blatantly open. 

[skinsfan35yrs.]

ok happy we beat Dallas. But I am no longer in Smiths corner. 1) in a interview he was tauting how its normal to have to take time to learn an offense, how it took him 5 years to get up to speed in KC. Too many QBs doing it in their first years to count, be it rookies or vets so.... 2) wide open receiver in the end zone with time and he blows it, 3) speaking of end zone, this is kirk cousins II, 1 friggin TD and twice they had first and goal inside the 10 and came away with only FGs. 4) We need to run down the clock and this bone head veteran runs it out of bounds. 

And while I am at it, kudos to the defense for 54 minutes but as like Ds of the past we cant seem to stop teams late in the 4th qtr, not only do they not stop the opposing offense we help with penalties why?

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Veretax said:

Every time Dallas got flagged you could tell the CBS folks were just salivating all over Dallas.  

I don't think the issue is Smith, I think the issue is early play calling.  Radio play by play said in the first half we had something like 8 first down runds in a row...... Talk about predictible.

This would be a trend going back to 2014...

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think anyone would rather lose with a QB putting up big stats than win with one putting up meh stats. It's more a couple of issues:

 

1) Thinking about just how good we could be if we had this defense as well as a non-anemic offense.

 

2) Knowing that these squeaker games where our offense doesn't produce for crap, our defense has to carry the team, and we get some lucky breaks are not always going to go our way so this still feels more like an 8-8 team. Which isn't bad, but we've been consistently mediocre with Gruden at the helm.

 

We can ride with the defense and with AP carrying the load and Alex not doing much but not turning the ball over but IMO that ain't gonna get us any farther than perhaps a playoff appearance due to a crappy conference. But we certainly aren't going to the SB with it. 

 

I'm happy as hell about beating Dallas. I just have so many frustrations still about this team. 

I get that feeling but thats exactly what teams like Baltimore, Seattle, and NYG did this century. They had OK offenses led by rushing attacks and QBs that got hot at the right times and strong defenses. And those are just the first few that come to mind. 

 

The other portion of it is that its easier to win these type of games in December and January than the high scoring games because its hard to put up 40 in the snow. Defense travels. This was our philosophy in 2005 when we beat Seattle in the playoffs. And then its a question of matchups. 

 

I still think that we're a growing team and a team that's learning to win. We're young and have guys from either losing (college) teams or guys who weren't dominant in college. The Alabama front is changing the mentality, but so is AP. He talked about the power of analyzing things and thinking positive about it. Notice how after the game he didn't talk about the losing streak but the start of a streak. These are small things that add up. 

 

I think Doctson is growing up before our eyes. He has 6 catches in the last 2 games. Not spectacular but is building chemistry with Alex. Bibbs is showing that he's a capable player in this league and it wouldn't surprise me to see us really try to include Perine in a trade option or just cut him outright if we need a player (Quinn or Sims). 

 

But I really think this team is coming together at the right time. You never know who's going to come alive from week to week. Every unit is contributing to wins and losses and so its not a blame thing or a thing of "I did my part", all units know they can play better, but they also know that they're winning together. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, skinsfan35yrs. said:

And while I am at it, kudos to the defense for 54 minutes but as like Ds of the past we cant seem to stop teams late in the 4th qtr, not only do they not stop the opposing offense we help with penalties why?

Gruden/Manusky decided to change our approach at the beginning of the drive and play a softer zone, this allowed Dak to have a choice of holes and get some big yardage.

 

If we had just stuck to what was working....

[carex]

14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m fine with everything that happened in the first 54 minutes of the game.

 

Then, in completely predictable Gruden wussy fashion, we changed what we were doing defensively and gave up a score, then completely failed on the next drive to 1. Get a first down and 2. To make Dallas use all their TOs.

 

Horrifc, play not to lose, predictable crap ass coaching from Gruden.

 

The only reason we won is because of a bizarre penalty on the long snapper and Garrett is probably a worse coach than Gruden.  

 

I’m thrilled with the win, but make no mistake, Gruden TRIED to cost his team a game today but the opponent refused to let him.

 

I don’t mind ugly wins if you’re smart about it.  The last 6 minutes came a 5 yard “simulating the snap” penalty from OT and a very possible loss.  Or tie.  

 

Which is inexcusable up 10 with 6 minutes left the way the defense was playing.  Inexcusable.

 

prevent defense has been a Redskins thing for decades pal.  I think it even happened some with Petibon

[SWFLSkins]

19 minutes ago, Hdf561 said:

I don’t think anyone is being negative just being REAL! If you can’t handle real then I don’t know what to tell you.... 

 

We had the game won signed sealed delivered and we let them back in just like Carolina...if your ok with that style then fine but I want games where we put them away! I don’t want to win by three I want to win by 14. 

 

I am am glad we won, it’s awesome! But this lack of offense is not sustainable the rest of the way. I don’t just want to win the NFC East I want playoff wins, NFC Championships and Super Bowls....if your ok with just being NFC east champ then great but I’m not I want to experience a 4th Super Bowl, I want my kids who have only seen us suck see what I saw as a kid a dominant franchise that wins Super Bowls. I won’t settle for less, if you do fine enjoy average. 

 

4-2with a lot of work to do! 

Blah,blah, blah, bloated blah, blah....  

[Cooleyfan1993]

@Thinking Skins we didn’t beat Seattle in the playoffs in 05. You’re thinking of Tampa bay that we beat that year ?

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Gruden/Manusky decided to change our approach at the beginning of the drive and play a softer zone, this allowed Dak to have a choice of holes and get some big yardage.

 

If we had just stuck to what was working....

 

That's another thing that's driving me a bit nuts. Why can't we do this??

 

For example, we get a nice big gain with Reed up the seam, then he disappears and we don't even seem to try it again. Vernon Davis gets one big target where he was very open and Alex overthrew him but we never tried it again and he disappeared. AP has a really nice run from a deep I formation and then we go right back to him in the shotgun over and over. 

 

I'm actually a bit hesitant to blame this all on play calling because Kirk many times went back to the well. When Reed was in and was on, Kirk would keep throwing it to him until he couldn't anymore. Now, Gruden DID still go away from what worked sometimes. But I think in this instance it's a combination of him out-thinking himself and Alex Smith being very reluctant to pull the trigger. 

 

When Reed is healthy he should be targeted far far more often. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

What exactly about Alex’s play should inspire any level of confidence in Jay to air it out a bit more near the end?

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

I get that feeling but thats exactly what teams like Baltimore, Seattle, and NYG did this century. They had OK offenses led by rushing attacks and QBs that got hot at the right times and strong defenses. And those are just the first few that come to mind. 

Carroll, Caughlin and Harbaugh are all VASTLY better coaches than Jay Gruden.  Even if the first one one is a big cheater and the last one is a complete pompous ass.  (I have nothing negative to say about Coughlin. Crusty old codger but a hell of a good football coach, and I was thrilled when the Giants ran him out of town.) but they are miles better coaches, which is why they were able to pull off these feats with limited offenses.

 

 

You could even throw in that Bucs team with Jon Gruden.  At that point in time, there wasn’t a better coach in football than Jon Gruden.  Gruden built both the Raiders and Bucs, both of which played in the SB. Then he wanted personnel control, Bucs hired Allen and everything went to ****.

 

Even that first Ravens team with Dilfer as QB, Billick finally figured out how to coach that team, and Marvin Lewis was a hell of a DC.  

 

I think a lot of us just can’t see this team winning much of anything while Jay continues to be a “play not to lose” coach.  And until that changes, they have a pretty definite ceiling of ~10 wins and a playoff loss.  Basically like Marvin Lewis. Up to now, anyway.

10 minutes ago, carex said:

 

prevent defense has been a Redskins thing for decades pal.  I think it even happened some with Petibon

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[skinsfan35yrs.]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it's a pure defensive improvement. We have more talent, especially up front, so we can run more diverse plays and rely on them more.

 

It's so frustrating to watch the defense improve so much but the offense regress.

 

It feels like we can NEVER put together a complete team. We always have some unit that will suck ass.

agreed

[Renegade7]

26 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m fine with everything that happened in the first 54 minutes of the game.

 

Then, in completely predictable Gruden wussy fashion, we changed what we were doing defensively and gave up a score, then completely failed on the next drive to 1. Get a first down and 2. To make Dallas use all their TOs.

 

Horrifc, play not to lose, predictable crap ass coaching from Gruden.

 

The only reason we won is because of a bizarre penalty on the long snapper and Garrett is probably a worse coach than Gruden.  

 

I’m thrilled with the win, but make no mistake, Gruden TRIED to cost his team a game today but the opponent refused to let him.

 

I don’t mind ugly wins if you’re smart about it.  The last 6 minutes came a 5 yard “simulating the snap” penalty from OT and a very possible loss.  Or tie.  

 

Which is inexcusable up 10 with 6 minutes left the way the defense was playing.  Inexcusable.

Your still gonna owe me a steak dinner anyway 

[KillBill26]

15 minutes ago, Veretax said:

 I don't think the issue is Smith, I think the issue is early play calling.  Radio play by play said in the first half we had something like 8 first down runds in a row...... Talk about predictible.

Agreed.  Smith has been disappointing, but I blame gruden much more than smith.  Granted, with the way AP has been running and the fact that we are 4-2, the predictable vanilla offense hasn't cost us much.  But I'm yelling at my TV to throw it on first down and try to get it downfeld more.  

 

Smith was excellent last  year.  I find it very hard to believe smith has all of a sudden hit a wall.  And we know grudens scheme works.  I'm hoping with a little more time for smith to get comfortable along with some players coming back from injury we may see some improvement soon.  That will have to start with gruden being a little bold with the playcalling.

 

And the calls to start colt are ridiculous.  Are these the same people that thought cousins sucks and just aren't going to be happy with whomever we put at QB?  Because after a quarter of colt those same people will be ready to crucify the new QB again.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What exactly about Alex’s play should inspire any level of confidence in Jay to air it out a bit more near the end?

 

 

Nothing.  9 guys in the box and knowing you’re going to get stuffed should necessitate doing SOMETHING that doesn’t resemble KNOWINGLY banging your head bloody on a cement wall, however.  

 

If if you are going to run, how about spread out the offense so there are less bodies all packed in together? Give Alex a read where he can throw a quick pass to a receiver if the defense plays off or doesn’t cover a guy? 

 

Nothing terribly fancy, not greatest show on turf, just a little less predictable and a little smarter.

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Your still gonna owe me a steak dinner anyway 

It is looking more likely.

 

But don’t count those chickens just yet.

 

Btw, I really would like to lose that bet this year.