Renegade7 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said: . I'm just consistently surprised people expected him to carry the team.. when everyone already knew he's not a QB that carries a team. I think a lot of people just hoped he wasn't worse then Kirk, which is out the window. Many people, myself included, agree with you that there's no way to expect the same production from Alex that he had last year without the same talent. Production is not the same as play, he's not the same player I saw rip us to shreds last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Morneblade said: So what? You stated that "no team that has injuries like this can survive". I'm showing you 2 examples of teams that have lost multiple OLmen, and are surviving. You never mentioned when the injuries happened has anything to do with it, they are still backups. In fact they have been playing with backups for LONGER. That's going to make a bigger difference. 11 hours ago, Morneblade said: If this is true, we're dead in the water. 11 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: No team can really withstand this type of injury situation. Stop being silly. Anyone with any football knowledge can see the point Im trying to make. Having to replace 80% of your OLine in a 10 day period is much different than losing a Guard in training camp or Week 2. Your above quoted post even agrees with me. Push your agenda in another thread and let’s move on with our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I think a lot of people just hoped he wasn't worse then Kirk, which is out the window. Many people, myself included, agree with you that there's no way to expect the same production from Alex that he had last year without the same talent. Production is not the same as play, he's not the same player I saw rip us to shreds last year. I had them pegged in the same ballpark, but in different ways, fwiw. I would say Kirk is a good QB. More aggressive. More turnovers. But good.. and can be very good with a good support cast. I think there are a ton of these types of QBs though.. all with various strengths and weaknesses. Kirk was long gone though, so while I would agree they should have locked him up back then.. I also don't claim to know the full details of either side. Doesn't really factor in, for me, since Kirk was running for the door before Smith was traded. I thought Smith was a good decision, and I no longer think this was the right call for the team. It was the selfish and understandable call for those making the decision to bring him in.. and even that likely will not turn out so right for them, as it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Stop being silly. Anyone with any football knowledge can see the point Im trying to make. Having to replace 80% of your OLine in a 10 day period is much different than losing a Guard in training camp or Week 2. Your above quoted post even agrees with me. Push your agenda in another thread and let’s move on with our lives. Only when you stop yours. I wasn't making that point. I'm not talking about yesterday, I'm talking about the rest of the season. As in, if we're going to have to go with 2 backup guards the rest of the year and a backup tackle for the next 3 weeks, we're done. If we can't run the football, we might not even win another game. I'm not looking at one stupid game. I'm looking at the season. And if we loose both G's, it's over. Because Alex can't step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Actually, if the OL backups stay healthy and get a few weeks of practice/continuity we could have a decent functioning unit by December or so. But that likely be too late to save the season. But every single team starts (multiple) backup OL at some point in the season...that’s a given. Losing both Tackles and both Guards for significant time in a small mid season window is worst case/curse type of stuff. Its not a difficult concept to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Actually, if the OL backups stay healthy and get a few weeks of practice/continuity we could have a decent functioning unit by December or so. But that likely be too late to save the season. I disagree. If we have two backup guards for the rest of the year I think we're in some real trouble. But, getting 71 back will help for sure. We'll have to see what the injury situation is. But keep in mind Nsheke got himself banged up yesterday, too. So: Trent Williams Ty Nsheke (banged up) Morgan Moses (always injured) Shaun Lauvao (always injured and IR) Brandon Scherff (we'll see) are all down. That leaves us with Roullier, Bergstrom, a banged up Nsheke, a banged up Moses (if he's okay), Casey Dunn, Geron Christian, Justin Evans and Timon Paris as our line. Add in a street guard in place of one of the PS tackles... If Moses is out for any time or Nsheke is banged up we're in almost the worst possible shape a team could be in. In the scenario where Ty/Moses miss ANY time, our second best lineman very well could be Tony Bergstrom. Let that sink in for a a second. The unit won't be competent by December because they don't have the guys to be competent. Figure Williams comes back by first Dec game. Maybe Nsheke is healthyish and Moses is healthyish. Okay, our starting unit is serviceable at that point. But what happens when Moses inevitably goes down again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 We have to look no further back than last year for the merry go round of offensive line to see just how detrimental it can be. And that was on a team where our emphasis was passing the football because running wasn't an option. As a running team that can't pass, I don't see how one could think we can patch together the horses at this point in the season. Our maulers are most likely down for multiple weeks, rendering the run nowhere near as effective. Both tackles are out, leaving it to an already skittish QB to have to get the ball out even faster. Gosh, it sounds even worse hashing it all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Callahan pulled a bunch of scrubs together that won a game on the road in the loudest stadium in the league last year. I have faith, if you give him somebody with an ounce of credibility, he can string something together for a month to get some folks healthy/up to speed. I mean, they don't have a QB with full command of the offense to keep it together, but they do have a RB that can make something out of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, justice98 said: I mean, they don't have a QB with full command of the offense to keep it together, but they do have a RB that can make something out of nothing. Adrian Peterson, through no fault of his own, was 100% ineffective yesterday due to the line struggles. With a gameplan he may be able to get something done. But when Geron Christian is seeing real playing time for us I'm not sure there's much we can do. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Peterson was breaking two tackles to get back to the LOS all day long yesterday. It was hard to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 These injuries were predictable. Having to play musical chairs was somewhat preventable. WTF did we sign WR Chesson to the active roster and not bring in an IOL? WTF did we bring some LB named McKinzy to teh active roster last week and not some IOL? WTF do we only have 2 UDFA rookie T on our practice squad but not a single IOL? WTF didnt we sign Evan Boehm when he was cut ... Im in the camp that these injuries = sub .500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I wonder what the record is for OL brought in on a Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 i'd even be okay kicking the tires on Jahri Evans. 35 years old, but a veteran. If he's kept in shape he'd be an auto upgrade to other alternatives at guard, even with losing a step. Still probably not a great choice... But look at AP/VD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 If we are not drafting OL in 4-5 of the first 5-6 picks of the draft, the owner, GM and Coach and entire front office need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said: Actually, if the OL backups stay healthy and get a few weeks of practice/continuity we could have a decent functioning unit by December or so. But that likely be too late to save the season. But every single team starts (multiple) backup OL at some point in the season...that’s a given. Losing both Tackles and both Guards for significant time in a small mid season window is worst case/curse type of stuff. Its not a difficult concept to understand. Oh it's bad. Is it worse than loosing all of them for the year earlier? Nope. I mean, what's worse. Playing all year with back ups, or half the year? Seems pretty ****ing obvious, doesn't it? Fact of the matter is that if we can't run, the offense will be completely shut down. In our 5 victories, we won because we could run the ball. In our 3 losses, we lost because we could not run the ball. And if we loose both G's we're not going to be able to run the ball. What's ironic is that we had 28 different OL combos last year, must worse than we've had to deal with so far. Still went 7-9 with a terrible defense, because we had a guy that could throw, to crap WR's and a MASH unit OL...................and Rob Kelly at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, jbird said: If we are not drafting OL in 4-5 of the first 5-6 picks of the draft, the owner, GM and Coach and entire front office need to be replaced. On paper, we only need a LG. On paper, we have one of the best OLs. Trent, Roullier, Scherff and Moses are all legit starters. Problem is we cant count on Trent, Scherff, Lauvau or Moses to stay healthy. How do you move on from Trent, Scherff and Moses? I dont think we can. I think we just continue to hope next season wont be like this season or last season. Start of season, things look great. But mid way through the season, its almost guaranteed that Trent, Scherff and Moses will all be playing at 60% and missing snaps here and there creating musical chairs and problems ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: On paper, we only need a LG. On paper, we have one of the best OLs. Trent, Roullier, Scherff and Moses are all legit starters. Problem is we cant count on Trent, Scherff, Lauvau or Moses to stay healthy. How do you move on from Trent, Scherff and Moses? I dont think we can. I think we just continue to hope next season wont be like this season or last season. Start of season, things look great. But mid way through the season, its almost guaranteed that Trent, Scherff and Moses will all be playing at 60% and missing snaps here and there creating musical chairs and problems ... HOPE is not a football tactic, only a fan coping mechanism. We HAVE to rebuild the OL. We need 10 starters. Look at the DL. If any 1 of the big 3 go down we are in a world of hurt. I am excited abou Settle but raise your hand if you want him to start in place of Payne. We have just started paying attention to the OL and DL in the draft over the last couple of years, and is the ONLY reason we have a 5-3 record today. Would have to look at the contracts of each player, but I see the building blocks for the future being Sherff, Moses and Roullier. Love TW and appreciate how he has played at a high level for so long, but he is too $$ and has begun to miss too much time to injury to be the future.' We need to be drafting for depth that can start. Geron Christian is a good place to start and I am glad he is going to get playing time in the future to see where he is, but we need to make the hard decisions. If he is not a servicable replacement, cut bait and move on. It is somewhat unfair to throw the line together we are going to be throwing together and expect any level of productivity and success from any individual lineman or from ASmith, but we made our bed by neglecting the OL and now we get to lay in it. A decent RB can look good behind a superior line, but a suspect OL gets your QB killed, and makes your shiny all-pro running back look pedestrian. Just ask the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk_Skins Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Yesterday is the game we will look back at the of a .500 or so season and just cry. Unbelievable. Honestly if we can't run we are not winning games, if we have no line, we can't run. Sorry folks but I am very low on our chances now and I am usually a glass half full type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Welp, this is what happens when you dont get any type of LG for the glaring hole in your offensive line. Because then when your good offensive line players go down with injury, you are that much more decimated. Lose a LT for a few weeks? We at least have a capable backup. Lose your RG for the season? You could slide your next best guard in there. But instead of that being someone the likes of Lauvau(who SHOULD have been at best the 3rd or 4th string guard), instead its now the guy even below him. The starting offensive line looked decent outside of the glaring hole at LG, but the backup depths beyong Nseke was always terrible. Also, how many seasons of debilitating injuries does it take, in a row, before we fire the training staff? At some point they have to get results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 21 minutes ago, jbird said: HOPE is not a football tactic, only a fan coping mechanism. We HAVE to rebuild the OL. We need 10 starters. Look at the DL. If any 1 of the big 3 go down we are in a world of hurt. I am excited abou Settle but raise your hand if you want him to start in place of Payne. We have just started paying attention to the OL and DL in the draft over the last couple of years, and is the ONLY reason we have a 5-3 record today. Would have to look at the contracts of each player, but I see the building blocks for the future being Sherff, Moses and Roullier. Love TW and appreciate how he has played at a high level for so long, but he is too $$ and has begun to miss too much time to injury to be the future.' We need to be drafting for depth that can start. Geron Christian is a good place to start and I am glad he is going to get playing time in the future to see where he is, but we need to make the hard decisions. If he is not a servicable replacement, cut bait and move on. It is somewhat unfair to throw the line together we are going to be throwing together and expect any level of productivity and success from any individual lineman or from ASmith, but we made our bed by neglecting the OL and now we get to lay in it. A decent RB can look good behind a superior line, but a suspect OL gets your QB killed, and makes your shiny all-pro running back look pedestrian. Just ask the Giants. I agree in part but somewhat confused. How can we say we neglected the OL in sentence but then say we have 3 building blocks already there? Plus Trent. We have not been neglecting the OL imo. We just havent added adequate depth for the IOL. Going into this season with Bergstrom as your only depth for 3 positions on the IOL was a predictable disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbird2 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: I agree in part but somewhat confused. How can we say we neglected the OL in sentence but then say we have 3 building blocks already there? Plus Trent. We have not been neglecting the OL imo. We just havent added adequate depth for the IOL. Going into this season with Bergstrom as your only depth for 3 positions on the IOL was a predictable disaster. TW has been on the team 9 years. Since TW pick..... 2018 - Rd 3 OT - GChristian 2017 - none 2016 - none 2015 - Rd 1 5th pick - BSherff " - Rd 4 AKouandijou 2014 - Rd 3 MMoses 2013 - None 2012 - RD 3 - JLerib " - Rd 5 A Gettis " - Rd 6 TCompton 2011 - Rd 7 MHurt 1010 - T WiIlliams Unless you count the pitiful (In-hindsight) attempt in 2012, there have been 4 total picks in the last 6 years. I did not realize how bad the 2012 draft was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 hours ago, carex said: hadn't they already gotten set up by the time Wentz went down? Jason Peters went down week 7 (vs us on Monday night), Wentz went down during week 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I would like to see a gif of Christian getting airborne.... That was a rough first game but at least he didn't let Alex get blindsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, jbird said: TW has been on the team 9 years. Missing a few ... Spencer Long (3rd R - 2013) ---- could really really use right now. Austin Reiter (7th - 2015) --- gambled and lost on trying to stash him. Burns. Chase Roullier (6th - 2017) --- thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Are we on borrowed time with the great Trent Williams ? He's what 30 , 8th season 6 x pro bowler, does he really owe us anymore than he has given ? When do we realistically have to draft another Left Tackle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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