The Offensive Line Thread

[Gallen5862]

The Redskins had some Tryouts for Guards. Could the Ziggy Hood cut be to make roster room?

 

https://twitter.com/HBalzer721

 

Howard Balzer‏ @HBalzer721 1h1 hour ago

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Redskins tryouts: Gs Oday Aboushi, J.J. Dielman, John Jerry.

[JSSkinz]

Cooley O Line Grades

 

Trent - 66 - Not his best game, pretty good in the passing game, had the holding call and gave up 3 pressures. Gave up a sack, got stunted to his backside one time.
Chase - 55 - He's a very good center but not a good guard, he cannot keep his helmet up when he's blocking so he gets killed on stunts, gave up 11 pressures/sacks.
Bergstrom - 58 - Slow with his feet, bad hips, does sustain some blocks but he doesn't have the athleticism to be a starting center.
Scherff - 84 - Nearly perfect in pass pro, at times he's destroying people in the run game, punked Luke Kuechly badly on one play.
Moses - 72 - Only one holding call but could have had 3, holds a lot in the run game, misses with his hands and grabs their back. He got bulled a couple times, he doesn't look right, the technique is poor, late to backside cutoffs.

[method man]

3 hours ago, Gallen5862 said:

The Redskins had some Tryouts for Guards. Could the Ziggy Hood cut be to make roster room?

 

https://twitter.com/HBalzer721

 

Howard Balzer‏ @HBalzer721 1h1 hour ago

More

Redskins tryouts: Gs Oday Aboushi, J.J. Dielman, John Jerry.

 

John Jerry is the best of the bunch. He's actually a good starter quality pass blocker, just not a good run blocker. Sticking him at LG and moving Roullier back to C would be a win

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, method man said:

 

John Jerry is the best of the bunch. He's actually a good starter quality pass blocker, just not a good run blocker. Sticking him at LG and moving Roullier back to C would be a win

 

I was thinking the same thing. He's the guy we need to sign, if we sign 1 of those 3.

[OVCChairman]

12 hours ago, Gallen5862 said:

The Redskins had some Tryouts for Guards. Could the Ziggy Hood cut be to make roster room?

 

https://twitter.com/HBalzer721

 

Howard Balzer‏ @HBalzer721 1h1 hour ago

More

Redskins tryouts: Gs Oday Aboushi, J.J. Dielman, John Jerry.

 

 

God I hope so.. I was convinced that 10 min after the Hood release news broke, they were going to say we were activating McGee... but haven't heard anything yet.

 

We NEED to do something on that line.  Having our 1st and 2nd string C on the field at the same time is dangerous.  I'd be perfectly fine with Gruden coming out and saying that we're going to keep both of those guys playing, as I think it's the best current O-line construction, but if we do...we need to get deeper.  

[RandyHolt]

I too suspect our OLs plates are full if we are seeing mistakes in things like stunt or blitz pickup. Moving a starting OL after an injury vs sucking it up buttercup by just going with 1 change, may not always be the best move. It goes unsaid it seems, OL have to be nearly perfect when it comes to memorizing and executing the plays. If they don't on a pass play, the QB is toast. Talk about pressure. 

 

I wonder how many plays Jay (or consensus of other OCs) considers a reasonable amount to have implemented in any given week for the offense.  25 50 100?   It must kill a coach mentally to have do dial back his playbook on any given week. Keep it simple, stoopid!!!1!

 

 

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

19 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Cooley O Line Grades

 

Trent - 66 - Not his best game, pretty good in the passing game, had the holding call and gave up 3 pressures. Gave up a sack, got stunted to his backside one time.
Chase - 55 - He's a very good center but not a good guard, he cannot keep his helmet up when he's blocking so he gets killed on stunts, gave up 11 pressures/sacks.
Bergstrom - 58 - Slow with his feet, bad hips, does sustain some blocks but he doesn't have the athleticism to be a starting center.
Scherff - 84 - Nearly perfect in pass pro, at times he's destroying people in the run game, punked Luke Kuechly badly on one play.
Moses - 72 - Only one holding call but could have had 3, holds a lot in the run game, misses with his hands and grabs their back. He got bulled a couple times, he doesn't look right, the technique is poor, late to backside cutoffs.

 

Thanks, this encouraged me to then go and listen to it.  He thinks Bergstrom is a great backup Center, and why not?  His ranking system is interesting, I don't know if he's gone over it, but I'm guessing it's something like:

 

90-100, A

75-89, B

60-74, C

50-59, D

0-49, F

 

He's said enough stuff during the podcast to make me think he does not like how the OL is being coached, and thinks there's an issue there.  He looks at other o-lines that have similar (or worse) talent and sees them executing better.  He thinks the LG and C situation could be achieving better results, but right now they're not.

 

One thing he was talking about that I'm now extremely worried about, is how we're going to handle what is the Dallas D-Line's bread and butter.  1 gapping and stunts.  Chase Roullier at LG, is going to destroy us against Dallas unless he fixes his mistakes.  Shawn Lauvao needs to get healthy.

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Thanks, this encouraged me to then go and listen to it.  He thinks Bergstrom is a great backup Center, and why not?  His ranking system is interesting, I don't know if he's gone over it, but I'm guessing it's something like:

 

90-100, A

75-89, B

60-74, C

50-59, D

0-49, F

 

He's said enough stuff during the podcast to make me think he does not like how the OL is being coached, and thinks there's an issue there.  He looks at other o-lines that have similar (or worse) talent and sees them executing better.  He thinks the LG and C situation could be achieving better results, but right now they're not.

 

One thing he was talking about that I'm now extremely worried about, is how we're going to handle what is the Dallas D-Line's bread and butter.  1 gapping and stunts.  Chase Roullier at LG, is going to destroy us against Dallas unless he fixes his mistakes.  Shawn Lauvao needs to get healthy.

Yep, he's been talking about the way the O line is being coached for a few weeks now, Dallas is going to give us problems because they execute well at our deficiencies.

 

Here's his grading system.

 

Cooley Grading System - He says its extremly difficult to score higher than a 93 using his system.

86 and above = A
76 - 85 = B
66 - 75 = C
51 - 65 = D
50 or less = F

 

 

[Audible_Red40]

Not earth shattering news.  But PFF has the O-line as the 14th ranked unit thus far.  The quick blurb is meh.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-6

 

Quote

14.

Center is traditionally the easiest position to pass protect for a couple of reasons. The guy you’re going up against is usually the least athletic of anyone on the defensive line, and you are almost never on an island one-on-one. That being said, the fact that Tony Bergstrom has allowed eight pressures in his three games as a starter is concerning.

 

[Koolblue13]

Chase shouldn't have been moved to guard. Berg is awful. He could have stayed awful st guard and left center as a strength, but instead they made 2 holes instead of one.

[bird_1972]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:19 PM, JSSkinz said:

Cooley O Line Grades

 

Trent - 66 - Not his best game, pretty good in the passing game, had the holding call and gave up 3 pressures. Gave up a sack, got stunted to his backside one time.
Chase - 55 - He's a very good center but not a good guard, he cannot keep his helmet up when he's blocking so he gets killed on stunts, gave up 11 pressures/sacks.
Bergstrom - 58 - Slow with his feet, bad hips, does sustain some blocks but he doesn't have the athleticism to be a starting center.
Scherff - 84 - Nearly perfect in pass pro, at times he's destroying people in the run game, punked Luke Kuechly badly on one play.
Moses - 72 - Only one holding call but could have had 3, holds a lot in the run game, misses with his hands and grabs their back. He got bulled a couple times, he doesn't look right, the technique is poor, late to backside cutoffs.

 

Geez. Overall sounds pretty bad. 

 

Cowboys are gonna kill us if they don't figure out how to fix these problems. 

 

Would we be better off with Bergstrom at G and moving Chase back to C?

[LD0506]

I know this, all of a sudden Lauvao ain't looking quite so bad is he?

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I know this, all of a sudden Lauvao ain't looking quite so bad is he?

Hes always been pretty good at run blocking. Pass blocking isn't great at, but it's hard to attack him between Chase and Trent. Now they can just plow up our gut. 

 

Chase is young too and needs every bit of consistency they can find. Moving him and being this unprepared for a Lauveo injury is pissing me off more and more.

[veteranskinsfan]

I read somewhere last week that it would make sense to insert Ty N. who is a backup lineman into the starting lineup for whomever is the current weakest lineman.

[OVCChairman]

17 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I read somewhere last week that it would make sense to insert Ty N. who is a backup lineman into the starting lineup for whomever is the current weakest lineman.

 

My concern with that... if Trent / Moses goes down, and Ty is in at Guard, and been prepping at Guard all week.. were in a world of hurt... The argument could be made that we would ALREADY be in a world of hurt, but knowing that Ty is there to backup at T is a lot more comforting.  God forbid Ty goes down at G, then Trent goes down after... that would mean our left side would be Christian, Chase, Bergstrom.  

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

My concern with that... if Trent / Moses goes down, and Ty is in at Guard, and been prepping at Guard all week.. were in a world of hurt... The argument could be made that we would ALREADY be in a world of hurt, but knowing that Ty is there to backup at T is a lot more comforting.  God forbid Ty goes down at G, then Trent goes down after... that would mean our left side would be Christian, Chase, Bergstrom.  

 

What?If Ty is at G, wouldn't that mean Christian, Ty and Chase? Because Ty would be play at G, Chase moves back to C and Berg is on the bench.

[OVCChairman]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

What?If Ty is at G, wouldn't that mean Christian, Ty and Chase? Because Ty would be play at G, Chase moves back to C and Berg is on the bench.

 

 

I said "god forbit Ty goes down at G, then Trent goes down after".... meaning if Ty were at Guard, and got injured, then something were to happen to Trent, our primary backup at T at that point would be Christian, Chase would slide over, and Bergstrom would come in at C.  

[Morneblade]

Just now, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I said "god forbit Ty goes down at G, then Trent goes down after".... meaning if Ty were at Guard, and got injured, then something were to happen to Trent . 

 

Well, that was really unclear what you meant. Anyway, then you end up with the same issue, right? Let's say you don't put Ty in for Chase, and Chase gets hurt, what then? Berg a C, no backup at all and then what Ty at T? You gonna put Christian at G? God, how bad would that be?

[bird_1972]

19 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

I said "god forbit Ty goes down at G, then Trent goes down after".... meaning if Ty were at Guard, and got injured, then something were to happen to Trent, our primary backup at T at that point would be Christian, Chase would slide over, and Bergstrom would come in at C.  

 

I think at that point, we are kinda screwed anyways. Kind of like if a team ever makes it to their third-string QB

[OVCChairman]

16 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Well, that was really unclear what you meant. Anyway, then you end up with the same issue, right? Let's say you don't put Ty in for Chase, and Chase gets hurt, what then? Berg a C, no backup at all and then what Ty at T? You gonna put Christian at G? God, how bad would that be?

 

Just now, bird_1972 said:

 

I think at that point, we are kinda screwed anyways. Kind of like if a team ever makes it to their third-string QB

 

 

I get that, I guess my thought process was it's really risky have our 3 NFL caliber Tackles on the field, all with injury history, all at the same time.  Having Ty on the sidelines and available if Trent / Moses goes down, is more valuable to me than having him in at G 

[Koolblue13]

It would have made more sense to kick Trent inside to Guard at have Ty at LT. 

 

If you can't play someone because you're convinced hes going to be injured, why is he even on your roster.

 

Best 5 should play. Every game matters. Dont screw with a young center and new QB.

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It would have made more sense to kick Trent inside to Guard at have Ty at LT. 

 

If you can't play someone because you're convinced hes going to be injured, why is he even on your roster.

 

Best 5 should play. Every game matters. Dont screw with a young center and new QB.

 

 

I get it, and I agree.... and I agree our FO did a terrible job of ensuring that we had depth at arguably the most important position in pro sports... OLine, but given my options now, I don't think risking Ty at LG is the smart play..  had we come into the season with him playing there, training there, practicing there, and he was the day 1 starter at LG, i'm with you 100%, but now its too late.  

[KDawg]

You put your best 5 linemen on the field. Period. If someone gets hurt, you're pretty screwed as is. 

 

If Gruden/Callahan thought Bergstrom at C and Roullier at LG was putting the five best linemen on the field at their best positions... that scares the hell out of me... and I'm not sure I agree given what we've seen (but we don't see it all)

 

I would say the best lineup would be:

 

LT Trent Williams

LG Ty Nsheke

C Chase Roullier

RG Brandon Scherff

RT Morgan Moses

 

if Ty CAN'T play LG and Trent @ LG and Ty @ LT is obviously better, you do that.

 

But I'd keep Trent at LT if you can for the same reason I'd keep Roullier at C. Continuity.

[Koolblue13]

Either way, having Ty Trent and Chase out there together is far better than not only bringing in Berg, but moving your young center out.

 

I forgot Ty was playing LG in camp.

[carex]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

What?If Ty is at G, wouldn't that mean Christian, Ty and Chase? Because Ty would be play at G, Chase moves back to C and Berg is on the bench.

 Christian is inactive ever week.  If Trent went down while Ty was playing guard then Ty would move back out to tackle and we'd be back to Roullier at G and Bergstrom at C