2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

Two really live arms. I love watching a QB with a great arm throw with the camera behind the QB. I wish that was an angle we could get in every game. Show the play from above, show the throw from behind the QB. 

I think Haskins looks better here. More accurate. Arm is very good. Much better air on the deep ball. On Lock's first ball, the receiver had to hold up. For someone with such a great arm, I saw that multiple times in his live games. 

I look at Lock, and I see Matthew Stafford. That's not an insult necessarily. Incredible arm. Sometimes inaccurate. Good but not great. I wouldn't mind if we drafted him, but wouldn't be bowled over with excitement either. 

[teflon don]

38 minutes ago, RWJ said:

It's going to take our 1st round and probably more to get Rosen.  You have other teams interested in him too.  

I was thinking our first next year or 2nd this year, others may be interested,  but my guess is that everyone feels they love Murray so much that they have to take the best offer of all the low ball offers. At least I hope so. 

[Whiskeypeet]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

I'm also generally wary of big time late risers in the draft process. Guys who suddenly rocket up to the top of the charts due to a couple of things late in the game...whether it's a picture of a guy without his shirt on looking ripped or insane combine physical attributes. From the beginning of the 2006 collegiate season pretty much everyone knew that Calvin Johnson was the best WR in the country and was going to be at least a top 10 pick in the draft, no questions asked (barring major injury). Not the same with Metcalf. He was pretty much always on the radar but it's not until late in the process that he's being considered as such a high pick.

 

This is my issue w/Metcalf as well.  Great athlete with inconsistent (if not somewhat wanting) play on the field.  I really don't want to purchase that in the 1st round.

[Anselmheifer]

WR's are killing it this year. As good as this year is for DT, I think it is better at WR. Metcalf looks like his ceiling is Terrell Owens. Hakeem Butler looks like a Mike Evans clone. I think Butler has a chance to be better than Metcalf out of the gate, and perhaps long term. And, the quality at the top is going to push value down the board. Deebo Samuel in the second. Isabella in the late second or third. 

 

I think the WR quality has a good chance to push Marquise Brown to our pick in the second. He was a paltry 5'9" 166 pounds wth 30.5 inch arms. Between his size, the injury, and the lack of a 40 time, he has to fall. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/deebo-samuel?id=32195341-4d63-6097-eab1-34810e00be67

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/hakeem-butler?id=32194255-5416-1833-e211-34b9abca1909\

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mike-evans?id=2543468

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/andy-isabella?id=32194953-4156-2722-bf26-62181351a224

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/marquise-brown?id=32194252-4f41-3218-bf76-54f4042e0396

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/a.j.-brown?id=32194252-4f41-3223-e4c5-1e30dffa87f8

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa

 

 

 

[Whiskeypeet]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 Metcalf looks like his ceiling is Terrell Owens.

 

 

Respect your opinion.  Curious on your thoughts about his floor...

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think Haskins looks better here. More accurate. Arm is very good. Much better air on the deep ball. On Lock's first ball, the receiver had to hold up. For someone with such a great arm, I saw that multiple times in his live games.  

 

Haskins is the best at throwing the intermediate range tree in this year's class.  He can do it in his sleep.  The footwork on his drops is hypnotic--so clean and balanced.  He gets crap for being slow in the open field but his pocket movement is effortless.  He's a natural.  And his pocket presence is elite.  He plays with no fear, no nerves.  Just confidence.

 

Haskins is being underappreciated IMO.  I think he's easily better than Rosen was.  Rosen is a nice touch passer and he's cerebral but he doesn't have anywhere close to Haskins's arm talent or pocket presence.  Haskins drives the ball better than anyone else in the class and it's just wrist flicks.  Rosen has to labor his ass off to get that kind of velocity.

 

And you're right, he throws the deep ball better than Lock.  I guess I should have realized how fast his receivers were, but the way he throws the deep ball is a testament to his arm strength.  He hitches into the throws and then unleashes.  He has the ability to wait until the route fully develops, even for the fastest pair of receivers in the class, because the release is so fast and the ball speed is so high.

 

It makes me sick to think the Giants might get him.  He and Odell Beckam would absolutely kill us.

[Anselmheifer]

1 minute ago, Whiskeypeet said:

 

Respect your opinion.  Curious on your thoughts about his floor...

 

I think at a minimum, you should be able to get decent production out of him as a big, fast bully. A creative OC could use him a little like Percy Harvin. Swing passes, bubble screens. He could eat up a defense for decent productivity in that kind of scheme, even if he isn't a pro-bowler. Look at his TD against Alabama. Ignore the back end of the play. The replay starts at about 40 seconds. He wins with great hand use, but the short area burst is extraordinary. Look at his 10 yard split. If you draft him and he just disappears, you are using him wrong, IMHO. 

 

 

[Whiskeypeet]

Appreciate the feedback.  This team needs a playmaker like that desperately.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 hours ago, PlayAction said:

  He was a mid first round pick but he has one fewer year on his rookie contract so he's worth less than this year's first round pick. 

But since most of his rookie deal was paid in a bonus, we'd be getting a guy with a year's experience for 3 years and about 6.3 mil total, plus having the 5th year option. So contract-wise, it's really nothing but a plus.

 

Not that I think that makes him worth our 1. I liked him last (liked, not loved), but trade value wise he's the 10th pick who had a disaster season and his team is giving up on him. Even with the contract and some extenuating circumstances, he really shouldn't fetch anything like the 15th pick. I might say our 2, a 5 in 2020 that could elevate up to a 3 based on performance, and a 7 in 2021 that could elevate up to a 4. So, minimum of a 2, 5 and 7, maximum of 2,3,4 if he really pans out. 

 

Not sure I'd do it, but if we were to, that's the kind of deal I'd be comfortable with. 

[Anselmheifer]

22 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Haskins is the best at throwing the intermediate range tree in this year's class.  He can do it in his sleep.  The footwork on his drops is hypnotic--so clean and balanced.  He gets crap for being slow in the open field but his pocket movement is effortless.  He's a natural.  And his pocket presence is elite.  He plays with no fear, no nerves.  Just confidence.

 

Haskins is being underappreciated IMO.  I think he's easily better than Rosen was.  Rosen is a nice touch passer and he's cerebral but he doesn't have anywhere close to Haskins's arm talent or pocket presence.  Haskins drives the ball better than anyone else in the class and it's just wrist flicks.  Rosen has to labor his ass off to get that kind of velocity.

 

And you're right, he throws the deep ball better than Lock.  I guess I should have realized how fast his receivers were, but the way he throws the deep ball is a testament to his arm strength.  He hitches into the throws and then unleashes.  He has the ability to wait until the route fully develops, even for the fastest pair of receivers in the class, because the release is so fast and the ball speed is so high.

 

It makes me sick to think the Giants might get him.  He and Odell Beckam would absolutely kill us.

I am hoping they are seduced by Lock. Huge arm. Killed the 40. Killing the interviews. Has a lot of buzz. Isn't the player Haskins is. Watching full game cut ups of Lock, he has too many long stretches of inaccuracy. He's also not good at touch passes. You could also see that in his combine workout. There are some plays though where he makes a 35 yard pass on a rope and it looks like an extended hand off, the ball gets there with such velocity and accuracy. That's where he excels. In those stick throws. They are incredible, but I don't know if you can make a career out of those. You need to be able to drop it in deep on a go route. Drop it in between the LB's and the safeties in a zone. etc. 

7 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

Appreciate the feedback.  This team needs a playmaker like that desperately.  

Just to be clear, I think there is a good chance he could be a really explosive 45-50 catch guy. I don't think he is a shoe in pro-bowl type player. But, we could really use a really explosive 50 catch guy. I think that's what we thought we were getting in Richardson. Having discussed his floor, you have to fantasize about the ceiling. He's a Saquon Barkley caliber athlete. 

[skinny21]

No idea about Rosen or the cost in picks, but... that contract would be ridiculously nice to have, and even more so considering the cap sunk into Smith.  If it was just a 2nd this year (perhaps an additional mid-late pick next year, or whatever), I think there’s a chance we could trade back in the 1st, land a starting G, and add a 3rd or better - essentially coming out of round two with a starting G and qb, and then have an extra mid round pick or two to further build the team.  

[Going Commando]

Metcalf is a 99 percentile athlete at the WR position.  He's a significantly better athlete than Josh Gordon is.  Better even than Julio Jones.  Basically only the Calvin Johnsons of the world are better athletes than him.

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

No idea about Rosen or the cost in picks, but... that contract would be ridiculously nice to have, and even more so considering the cap sunk into Smith.  If it was just a 2nd this year (perhaps an additional mid-late pick next year, or whatever), I think there’s a chance we could trade back in the 1st, land a starting G, and add a 3rd or better - essentially coming out of round two with a starting G and qb, and then have an extra mid round pick or two to further build the team.  

The contract would be nice. We may be underselling the Rosen to Oakland angle. Listen to Mayock just gush about Rosen in the two videos below. Honestly, those deep balls he throws at the combine look nicer than anything anyone has thrown this year, not that that matters. 

 

 

 

I think someone is going to get big eyes and take Metcalf long before our pick. Given that likelihood, if I was choosing at 15 and had to take a WR, it would be Butler. Kid is going to be a stud. 

 

Think about this offense if we trade next year's 1 for Rosen and grab Butler, Marquise Brown or Deebo Samuel, Andy Isabella, and an OG or C with our first 4 picks. Maybe Bryce Love in the 5th or 6th. The entire offense has been rebuilt in a year. Between the DL, hopefully Ruben Foster, and those offensive skill players, there would be hope in Washington like we haven't seen in forever. 

Not that our front office would do that. I just want BPA. I think WR has a chance to be BPA, round by round. I'd be perfectly happy with a Byron Murphy, Germaine Pratt, etc, as well. 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

The contract would be nice. We may be underselling the Rosen to Oakland angle. Listen to Mayock just gush about Rosen in the two videos below. Honestly, those deep balls he throws at the combine look nicer than anything anyone has thrown this year, not that that matters. 

 

 

 

I think someone is going to get big eyes and take Metcalf long before our pick. Given that likelihood, if I was choosing at 15 and had to take a WR, it would be Butler. Kid is going to be a stud. 

 

Think about this offense if we trade next year's 1 for Rosen and grab Butler, Marquise Brown or Deebo Samuel, Andy Isabella, and an OG or C with our first 4 picks. Maybe Bryce Love in the 5th or 6th. The entire offense has been rebuilt in a year. Between the DL, hopefully Ruben Foster, and those offensive skill players, there would be hope in Washington like we haven't seen in forever. 

Not that our front office would do that. I just want BPA. I think WR has a chance to be BPA, round by round. I'd be perfectly happy with a Byron Murphy, Germaine Pratt, etc, as well. 

 

 

I think Metcalf's floor is to the Bills.  He's not going to be there at 15.  Those are out of this world numbers.

[mistertim]

Looking at all of those videos, I think Rosen's combine workout was better than Haskins or Lock. Better footwork, more accurate, better deep ball. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

#2 this year and a #3 next year for Rosen. 

 

Unless Metcalf is at 15 (won’t be) I trade 15 back to late 1st and add a 2nd or 3rd. Take a WR there (Butler AJ Brown/M Brown) and then go LG, Edge, TE/Secondary with the 2/3/3 or 3/3/3

 

Couple that with signing S Landon Collins and maybe a top flight Edge and we suddenly look good all things considered. 

 

Trading for Rosen and getting WR early frees up a ton of money (hypothetically) to throw at a couple elite defenders in FA, assuming Smith and Crowder walk. 

[Peregrine]

Not a fan of Metcalf at all.  Anytime someone is that much of a physical freak and yet production is lacking, its a major red flag as to their ability to actually play.  He appears to be basically Devin Funchess 2.0, maybe a solid #2 receiver, but not a #1.  Butler looks like the much better receiver, and considering Metcalf basically ran about one route in college, a go route, I think the much more likely to be a star in the league.

[skinny21]

Don’t know how much stock to put into it, but Metcalf’s 3 cone time (change of direction) was shockingly bad.  Considering the route running concerns (specifically rounding out his routes), that’s a bit of a concern I’d think.  Near as I can tell, he was something like the 5th slowest... and that’s including qbs and TEs.  

[Poindexter]

4 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Not a fan of Metcalf at all.  Anytime someone is that much of a physical freak and yet production is lacking, its a major red flag as to their ability to actually play.  He appears to be basically Devin Funchess 2.0, maybe a solid #2 receiver, but not a #1.  Butler looks like the much better receiver, and considering Metcalf basically ran about one route in college, a go route, I think the much more likely to be a star in the league.

What people don't understand is that Metcalf was hurt most of the season.  He averaged 80 yards a game and 22 yards per catch.  Also Devin Funchess is no way near the athlete Metcalf is.  Funchess was a tight end for most of his college career.  

 

If you look at his tape all you see is a guy who is dominant at the line of scrimmage, runs past people consistently and has very strong hands.  

[FrFan]

https://www.rotoballer.com/2019-nfl-draft-class-preview-wide-receivers-part-1/596687

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Don’t know how much stock to put into it, but Metcalf’s 3 cone time (change of direction) was shockingly bad.  Considering the route running concerns (specifically rounding out his routes), that’s a bit of a concern I’d think.  Near as I can tell, he was something like the 5th slowest... and that’s including qbs and TEs.  

 

Jesus, that's really bad for a WR. That's actually a drill I put a decent amount of stock in for WR because I think it directly ties into how well they're able to naturally get quickly in and out of breaks. 

 

For comparison, one of the guys that he's been compared do as far as being a physical freak, is Julio Jones. Julio had a 3 cone time of 6.66 seconds. Our own Josh Doctson (who, despite what you think of him, does have some really good physical tools) had 6.84, which is considered decent but not great.

 

To put in to perspective how ****ty that is, almost every QB we've talked about a fair amount on here including Lock, Jones, Grier, Stidham, and Rypien (Haskins and Murray didn't participate in 3 cone) had better performances in that drill that Metcalf. 

 

[ExoDus84]

8 hours ago, Whiskeypeet said:

 

Respect your opinion.  Curious on your thoughts about his floor...

 

Dude ran a 7.38 3-cone time. That's slower than Tom Brady ran lol. 

 

He's like a 70's muscle car that can rip in a straight line and then will flip over a cliff once a turn approaches. Pinnochio has less wooden hips. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

Where is Terry McLaurin going to go? 4th? Could be a real value pick. 

Also, I'll take Paris Campbell to replace Thompson please. I think that is the perfect role for him. Hand him the ball. Screens, sweeps, bubble screens, slants. Let him YAC. While he ran a 4.31, someone here quoted a study that said that broad jump and vertical jump are more predictive of NFL success for a WR. I've always, liked broad jump as a measure of athleticism. Sometimes you get a track athlete that has done triple jump. I like that even better. In any case, Paris Capbell put up a 40" vert, and an eye popping 135 inch broad jump. And he's significantly bigger than Thompson, with better top end speed. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/parris-campbell?id=32194341-4d23-0411-19c3-b6e460708ae9

 

DL and LB workouts today. Should be fun!

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Where is Terry McLaurin going to go? 4th? Could be a real value pick. 

Also, I'll take Paris Campbell to replace Thompson please. I think that is the perfect role for him. Hand him the ball. Screens, sweeps, bubble screens, slants. Let him YAC. While he ran a 4.31, someone here quoted a study that said that broad jump and vertical jump are more predictive of NFL success for a WR. I've always, liked broad jump as a measure of athleticism. Sometimes you get a track athlete that has done triple jump. I like that even better. In any case, Paris Capbell put up a 40" vert, and an eye popping 135 inch broad jump. And he's significantly bigger than Thompson, with better top end speed. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/parris-campbell?id=32194341-4d23-0411-19c3-b6e460708ae9

 

DL and LB workouts today. Should be fun!

 

The draft is so deep at WR, so hard to tell, guessing McLaurin goes late 2nd to early to mid 3rd?  Good point on Campbell -- he's not a polished route runner but he has good size and can take handoffs, screens, hitches, shallow crosses -- he's faster than Thompson I believe and has the size to be more durable even though he's not a RB.  But he can be used as a gadget type player to help create confusion in the backfield among other things.