2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Pauline, he said he's hearing

 

What he's hearing is most agree that the top 5 edge rushers are:  Bosa, Polite, Burns, Allen, Sweat. And they are all likely going top 15.  If so that means Ferrell should be there at 15.

 

He said he hears Lock is going top 10.  Too many offensive coordinators are in love with his arm.  He reminds them of Mahomes with his arm strength and ability to throw from multiple arm angles.   They think Lock's arm strength is actually equal to Mahomes. 

 

Drew Sample and Josh Oliver are risers at TE

[HigSkin]

This about sums up DK Metcaf - 

 

 

[Peregrine]

I gotta say, when it comes to athletic ability and size at WR, Id keep an eye on Boykin as maybe the best in class.  Hes got size in the Thomas, Jones territory, and hes got a 3-cone to match.  The 3-cone is where Thomas killed it in the combine, despite an abysmal 40 time, and turns out as most scouts know, is far more important to showing how good a receiver can be.

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Not a fan of Metcalf at all.  Anytime someone is that much of a physical freak and yet production is lacking, its a major red flag as to their ability to actually play.  He appears to be basically Devin Funchess 2.0, maybe a solid #2 receiver, but not a #1.  Butler looks like the much better receiver, and considering Metcalf basically ran about one route in college, a go route, I think the much more likely to be a star in the league.

 

There are some misconceptions being shared about Metcalf, several in this post.  He's a redshirt sophomore--he's a long way off from being as good as he's going to get.  He played six games this year and got knocked out for the year in the first quarter of the seventh.  He was on his way to having a big year statistically.

 

- The Ole Miss offense was simplistic and his role in it was almost always as the vertical option.  He also didn't get a lot of chances to eat because Ole Miss force fed Brown and Lodge so often.

- The rounded off breaks are a common problem for young speed receivers.  And they are much less of a problem for a guy with real speed like Metcalf than a normal receiver because the coverage is often already chasing him by 9 to 12 yards.

- Metcalf isn't just a typical go route flanker.  He's a split end who beats press coverage boundary-side and he's a goal line weapon.  He has no problems getting whatever release he needs.

 

He's raw because he hasn't played much, but he's going to keep making rapid strides, especially under far better NFL coaching.  He's a potential star receiver.

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Pauline, he said he's hearing

 

What he's hearing is most agree that the top 5 edge rushers are:  Bosa, Polite, Burns, Allen, Sweat. And they are all likely going top 15.  If so that means Ferrell should be there at 15.

 

He said he hears Lock is going top 10.  Too many offensive coordinators are in love with his arm.  He reminds them of Mahomes with his arm strength and ability to throw from multiple arm angles.   They think Lock's arm strength is actually equal to Mahomes. 

 

Drew Sample and Josh Oliver are risers at TE

I agree about Lock's arm strength. It's really fun to watch him throw. I'd love it if the Giants take him instead of Haskins. I do think he'll be good, but I don't think he's a future great one. 

 

I'm not in love with Ferrell. Seems like the type of guy our coaches like though. Big and lacking burst. I swear we coach offense and defense like it's the 90's. The thing that hurts about losing Swearinger is that although he was wrong to speak out, I believe he was correct about the coaching. We need to build an offense that can score a lot and then a defense that can pin it's ears back when the other team has to pass the ball. 

I'd very much prefer Butler at WR, or any number of defenders, including Murphy, whatever DT drops, etc, over Ferrell. I will grant, that this is one area that I am not great. Sometimes I am very confident that a pass rusher will be a success. I usually hit on those. When I predict failure, I'm sometimes wrong. I thought JPP was not going to be good, for instance. 

[Anselmheifer]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

There are some misconceptions being shared about Metcalf, several in this post.  He's a redshirt sophomore--he's a long way off from being as good as he's going to get.  He played six games this year and got knocked out for the year in the first quarter of the seventh.  He was on his way to having a big year statistically.

 

- The Ole Miss offense was simplistic and his role in it was almost always as the vertical option.  He also didn't get a lot of chances to eat because Ole Miss force fed Brown and Lodge so often.

- The rounded off breaks are a common problem for young speed receivers.  And they are much less of a problem for a guy with real speed like Metcalf than a normal receiver because the coverage is often already chasing him by 9 to 12 yards.

- Metcalf isn't just a typical go route flanker.  He's a split end who beats press coverage boundary-side and he's a goal line weapon.  He has no problems getting whatever release he needs.

 

He's raw because he hasn't played much, but he's going to keep making rapid strides, especially under far better NFL coaching.  He's a potential star receiver.

I agree with all of this, and I think a guy with his speed and size is going to get by without having the short area lateral agility. Look at David Boston. Shoot, Dez Bryant had almost the same short shuttle. Metcalf's short area burst is just so good. His hand use and the 10 yard split are going to make him a nightmare, and he is going to get big cushions. 

[HigSkin]

😂😂😂

 

 

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I'm not in love with Ferrell. Seems like the type of guy our coaches like though. Big and lacking burst. I swear we coach offense and defense like it's the 90's. The thing that hurts about losing Swearinger is that although he was wrong to speak out, I believe he was correct about the coaching. We need to build an offense that can score a lot and then a defense that can pin it's ears back when the other team has to pass the ball.  

I'd very much prefer Butler at WR, or any number of defenders, including Murphy, whatever DT drops, etc, over Ferrell. I will grant, that this is one area that I am not great. Sometimes I am very confident that a pass rusher will be a success. I usually hit on those. When I predict failure, I'm sometimes wrong. I thought JPP was not going to be good, for instance.  

 

Butler is my guy, and I've been driving the bandwagon on him for the past few months, but I think Ferrell is a much better and more valuable prospect than him.  I would value elite prospects like Byron Murphy and Ed Oliver over Ferrell.  But there aren't many more that could be BPA for me ahead of Ferrell at 15.  He's a special one and I think he has a ton of untapped upside.  More than Burns & Sweat and maybe even Polite.

 

I disagree about him lacking burst.  His snap quickness is elite and it's one of the most consistent things about his game as a rusher.  That plus his play strength are how he wins really.  My concerns are more about his low level of refinement as a rusher and his poor approach in his rush sets.  He doesn't have go to counters.  He's basically been producing off pure instinct and physical talent and aggression.  Still managed to put up awesome production.

 

I also think he needs to work on his diet and do more to cut sloppy weight and replace it with lean muscle.

 

I think his weaknesses are natural and common and they are things he can work on with his NFL team.  It might take him a little longer than the more polished rushers like Bosa and Sweat and the DTs to come into his own, but his upside is high.  And I think it's also worth remembering that he still had top end production despite being raw and poorly conditioned and that he whipped Jonah Williams's ass, and Williams is the premier pass pro technician in the class.

[Anselmheifer]

42 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Butler is my guy, and I've been driving the bandwagon on him for the past few months, but I think Ferrell is a much better and more valuable prospect than him.  I would value elite prospects like Byron Murphy and Ed Oliver over Ferrell.  But there aren't many more that could be BPA for me ahead of Ferrell at 15.  He's a special one and I think he has a ton of untapped upside.  More than Burns & Sweat and maybe even Polite.

 

I disagree about him lacking burst.  His snap quickness is elite and it's one of the most consistent things about his game as a rusher.  That plus his play strength are how he wins really.  My concerns are more about his low level of refinement as a rusher and his poor approach in his rush sets.  He doesn't have go to counters.  He's basically been producing off pure instinct and physical talent and aggression.  Still managed to put up awesome production.

 

I also think he needs to work on his diet and do more to cut sloppy weight and replace it with lean muscle.

 

I think his weaknesses are natural and common and they are things he can work on with his NFL team.  It might take him a little longer than the more polished rushers like Bosa and Sweat and the DTs to come into his own, but his upside is high.  And I think it's also worth remembering that he still had top end production despite being raw and poorly conditioned and that he whipped Jonah Williams's ass, and Williams is the premier pass pro technician in the class.

I do like that he seems ferocious. I also think he's a natural replacement for Kerrigan when Kerrigan leaves. I still think we need a speed rusher. As much as I'm not buying Daniel Jones, I trust your judgement about Ferrell more than mine. 

I do really like Butler. I also think he gives us the type of WR that can really make a QB look good, which will be huge if we draft a QB next year, bring in a FA, or trade for Rosen. Think how much better Rosen would look throwing to Butler and Marquise Brown, if we could pull them both. 

It doesn't bear a lot of discussion, because we won't get him, but I would love to get Josh Allen. He would utterly change our defense, and I can't wait to see his workout numbers. 

 

edit:   Dexter Lawrence ran a 5.05 40 at 342 pounds and Quinnen Williams just ran a 4.83 with a 1.69 split. He's going to be such a beast. 

 

https://gbnreport.com/2019-combine-blog/

[SemperFi Skins]

My boy Ed Oliver doing big things, and of course, Quinnen Williams 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree about Lock's arm strength. It's really fun to watch him throw. I'd love it if the Giants take him instead of Haskins. I do think he'll be good, but I don't think he's a future great one. 

 

 

I'd rather the Giants not get either one.  On Lock, I like him but really want to love him and am pushing myself to do so. 😀 He has the profile that I love in QBs, athleticism, arm strength, can throw well from different platforms, moxie, leadership.  I do recall a little discussion on Mahomes years back and I was mixed about him but I recall posting once about him having remarkable tools but he's raw.  And a regular poster from the draft thread back then sort of mocked my post saying raw doesn't quite cover how raw he is.  My point on that is for the non-bonafide slam dunk guys especially at QB there is typically mixed opinions -- comes with the turf.

 

The funny thing about listening to the draft geeks I follow is how they will circle back and tout guys they never touted back then.  Saying this dude is no such and such.  Even though such and such wasn't considered all that back when they evaluated him.  Like saying this guy is no Mahomes but back when Mahomes was a prospect they weren't in love with the dude, then.  My point is on a guy like Lock if some offensive coordinators think they can tweak his mechanics to bring more consistency (as Pauline alluded to what he heard) then maybe they are right?  Or maybe they are wrong.  But on a guy who has tools, I'll go for that ride if the in house experts (in our case I think that's Jay as for QBs) think that can do something with the talent.  I am not saying Lock is the next Mahomes -- got no idea.  But I don't scoff at any analogy to other QBs who weren't loved as prospects in their heyday in the draft process since those same prospects were met with much skepticism at the time. 

 

As for Haskins, I watched him during the season.  I haven't watched a lick since because I figured he's an unrealistic get.  I did just watch a bunch of Rosen.  And with some of the draft geeks including Jeremiah and unnamed personnel guys suggesting that Rosen is the better passer than Haskins -- if that's really true I wouldn't love Haskins.  And its not that I disliked Rosen but he doesn't seem special to me.  I talked about it on the QB thread.  Haskins has his critics I am noticing.  And his fans.    I'll get to watch him -- he's the only of the big 4 names that haven't been linked to the Redskins.  Different beat guys have said they like Jones, Lock and Murray.  I've heard nothing about Haskins hence I've been lazy as to getting to watching him.  I did like him watching him in real time in the college season but sometimes my opinion changes when I watch the QBs much more closely.  Not that am an expert of course but just in my own amateur way.  

 

But back to Lock.  The best analogy I can think of is it feels like I am at the bar and want another drink or two to help me fall hard for someone even though I am not quite feeling that yet. 😀

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I agree with all of this, and I think a guy with his speed and size is going to get by without having the short area lateral agility. Look at David Boston. Shoot, Dez Bryant had almost the same short shuttle. Metcalf's short area burst is just so good. His hand use and the 10 yard split are going to make him a nightmare, and he is going to get big cushions. 

 

But one of the reasons that Dez fell off quickly IMO is that he didn't have that short area lateral agility to get in and out of his breaks quickly to create separation. He was always a pretty bad to mediocre route runner and got by on his physicality and ability to out-muscle guys. That and the fact that he had Romo throwing to him. Romo and Dez worked perfectly together because Romo was more of a sandlot QB who could improvise really well and Dez was the same way as a WR. Once Dez got older and lost some physicality and athleticism he was very pedestrian because his route running blew and he couldn't get separation.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

4.84 for Polite. That's not hot for a speed rusher.

[Anselmheifer]

Polite is going to drop. His interviews sounded terrible. He could drop pretty far. 

[duffy]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Polite is going to drop. His interviews sounded terrible. He could drop pretty far. 

I'd be happy with him in the second 

[mistertim]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

4.84 for Polite. That's not hot for a speed rusher.

 

True, especially for his size. But then again I don't think 40 times matter nearly as much for edge rushers as broad jump and even more so and 10 yard split. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sweat 4.42 40 that's insane as someone pointed out on Twitter, it makes him faster that Odell Beckham. An a 1.55 on the 10.

[SemperFi Skins]

That’s just nuts for Sweat!

[Ghedrick]

Sweat has just put himself in the conversation to be the best pass rusher in the draft with Bosa and Allen. This guy is likely going top 5 after this performance. Oh my 4.42 40 that is completely insane.

[Anselmheifer]

One more thing about Metcalf, his 10 yeard split was better than Tyreek Hill, Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks and Julio Jones. Metcalf posted a 1.45 and the others a 1.5. Desean Jackson and TY Hilton ran a 1.53 10 yard split. Just monstrous out of the gate. 

[KillBill26]

19 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm also generally wary of big time late risers in the draft process. Guys who suddenly rocket up to the top of the charts due to a couple of things late in the game...whether it's a picture of a guy without his shirt on looking ripped or insane combine physical attributes. From the beginning of the 2006 collegiate season pretty much everyone knew that Calvin Johnson was the best WR in the country and was going to be at least a top 10 pick in the draft, no questions asked (barring major injury). Not the same with Metcalf. He was pretty much always on the radar but it's not until late in the process that he's being considered as such a high pick.

I agree with this 100%.  That's why I'm so down on Daniel Jones.  He was never discussed as a first round prospect, until the supply/demand aspect (QB being a premium position and there not being many top prospects this year) has all of a sudden catapulted what has been viewed all along as a midround prospect into the first round. 

 

I hope its lock at 15, or a third day QB, and look to address the position in 2020.  With the QB crop next year, I'd be ok with being aggressive to get our guy even if it meant overpaying, instead of reaching for a subpar prospect this year.  But with the guys coming out next year, and the fact that our pick will most likely be higher next year than this year, it's very likely we won't have to overpay, and a solid QB will be on the board when it's our turn to pick.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sweat 4.42 40 that's insane as someone pointed out on Twitter, it makes faster that Odell Beckham. An a 1.55 on the 10.

 

WTF?...That’s insane.

 

Talk about your speed rushers lol...

[JSSkinz]

Wouldnt a poor cone and shuttle drill be indicative of how well a WR can get in and out of his route and separate?

[mistertim]

40 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

WTF?...That’s insane.

 

Talk about your speed rushers lol...

 

Holy living ****knuckles on those Sweat times.

 

And I'm not saying that about his 40 time (which is clearly insane, but isn't all that relevant for a pass rusher) but about his 10 yard split. 1.55 is faster than both Aaron Donald (1.59) AND Von ****ing Miller (1.57). That's ludicrous explosion and burst.

[Skinsinparadise]

Devin Bush at 4.44 is great. Only watched one of his games where I didn't get the hype but it was only one game.  I like what I read about him -- reports that he's a London Fletcher type, undersized liked him, good captain on the field, anticipates where the play is going, etc.  People say Zach Brown is a speed freak and Zach ran a 4.5 40.   Some say he has much better instincts than Devin White.  But I haven't dived into watching that myself.  I've watched more Devin White.