2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[IrepDC]

Garrett Bradbury C from NC State might be my new number 1 pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

I got to listen to his take now on Lock.  i like Lock so I can dig this. At least he leapfrogged Jones apparently with Cooley.  😀

 

 

 

[RWJ]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got to listen to his take now on Lock.  i like Lock so I can dig this. At least he leapfrogged Jones apparently with Cooley.  😀

 

 

 

Looking at film on Lock his OL give him all day long to throw the ball.  Something to think about.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

27 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Looking at film on Lock his OL give him all day long to throw the ball.  Something to think about.

 

I like Lock don't love him but I can be talked into him.  By that meaning if Jay-Kyle really dig him I'll be easily convinced because at least I could see some things to fall for about him.  He's got a rocket arm, he can throw from different weird arm angles and his sneaky athletic ability.  As for him under pressure, he's sort of hit and miss for me.  At times I like him and at times I don't but I think there is enough there to potentially work with.   I like his personality-bravado, etc.  

 

Stidham to me for example is a poor man's Lock.  He has slightly less athleticism and slightly less arm strength.  But watching Stidham he comes off to me as borderline hopeless under pressure.  And when you add that to his reputation for coming up small in big spots and in big games -- I constantly see that about Stidham -- so some there screams to me bust. But is there such a thing as a bust in the third round?  I don't think so.  So why not see if that can be fixed. 

 

I am still cool with taking him because heck the 3rd round or so for a Qb is all about projections and if Jay thinks they can fix what ails Stidham then give it a shot and if he's wrong so be it no harm done.    Lock to me looks like could be a bonafide franchise QB.  Stidham I'd be really surprised if he is.  I like bringing up Stidham in comparison to Lock because a lot of their attributes are in that same style-so its a similar conversation. 

 

I could totally dig Stidham if he looked to me like Lock under pressure and that's not because I love watching Lock in those situations -- to me Lock is hit and miss in those spots, good-bad, all over the place.  But I see enough good that if Jay thinks it can be fixed I can go on that ride. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/chris-simms-explains-why-he-has-drew-lock-rated-above-everyones-top-qb-dwayne-haskins?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Another thing worth considering when grading the two? The rosters they played on.

"What's the difference between Haskins and Lock, what are we talking about here? Ohio State, and that they won games because he's got a bunch of first-rounders around him all over the field?" Simms said.

"Yeah, there's some dumb interceptions every game," he continued, now talking about Lock. "But he wasn't afforded the luxury of going, 'Well, I don't have to take a chance here, I can punt it and my defense will hold them.' Those are the things Dwayne Haskins was afforded."

In the end, Simms really loves the way Lock throws the ball and operates when the pocket isn't clean. In the NFL, you rarely get a clean pocket, and that's once place the soon-to-be pro excelled at Missouri. 

"That's where Lock really jumped off the screen to me is some of those type of plays," Simms said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Cooley's podcast, ironically about Lock and Stidham.  He's higher on Lock than I am and more down on Stidham than I am.  But on the aggregate I am not a mile away from his points.  I like Lock -- don't love him like Cooley does but I love aspects of him so I can be talked into him.  I don't mind Stidham as a flier I got concerns but I'd take a chance. 

 

Lock:  He watched 6 of his games.   He thinks he's a top 5 pick. 2nd best QB in the draft.   He'd trade up for him if he were the Redskins.  He says he hopes someone takes Haskins and Lock is still available in the top 10, then he'd trade up and go get him.  Referring back from his podcast yesterday, Cooley liked Jones but not as much and said then he wouldn't trade up for Jones.

 

He knows where he wants to go with the ball.  He thinks he's exceptional under pressure, exceptional on the move.  He goes through his progressions wells.  He sees coverages well.  He's a full field reader.   He sees the field well.  Throws with anticipation.  Back shoulder fade throws are amazing.   He's willing to throw into tight spots and does it well.  Makes throws from multiple arm angles.  Can throw off his back foot well.   Moves people with his eyes and subtle shoulder movements.  He's a baller.    He's the easiest day 1 QB in this draft -- ready to play.   He goes that's his dude now.  

 

He needs to steps up and slide away from pressure better, and protect the ball better under pressure.

 

Stidham:  he doesn't like, thinks he's a third rounder at best.   He's way late on his throws.  He doesn't throw with good rhythm or timing.  He's not hot throwing on the move because he doesn't square his shoulders.  He's uncomfortable in the pocket and under pressure.  He does like his arm -- rocket.    But he hitches too much on his throws.

[mistertim]

I could possibly be talked into Lock but I'm not so sure about trading up for him. I really don't like him under pressure most of the time, though. Too often for my taste he seems to panic a bit and instead of stepping up he'll immediately go backwards and then either short arm it or throw off his back foot...both of which lead to poor accuracy. Yes there are a few examples (as have been posted) of him stepping up under pressure but from the cutups I've watched those are the exceptions to the rule. He also had a huge, dominant OL that more often than not gave him tons of time to throw. Just not sure how he'd be able to deal with NFL level pressure with a so-so OL...especially as a rookie. 

[gooseneck]

Well, lucky me, I broke my neck, ironic for a name like “Goose Neck”.  2 month was wasted cause I thought I would just deal with the pain, not two months but a while until I found out it was broken, and did not get it checked out.  Now it looks like  I am out commission for several months so hope to add more content in my post- usually work about 65 hours a week.  I have 2 approaches to this draft right now but might change.  First, offensive line,
1.  Cody Ford in the first OG, T - I was thinking, guard center in third and BPA-We will need to replace Trent Down the line and in the meantime- we need a line that can protect a QB- we draft in 2020.  Otherwise BPA and a lot of undrafted free agents- we should be a draw as we have so many spots to fill.

2. BPA all the way through and a lot of undrafted free agents- we should be a draw as we have so many spots to fill.

-I think how Trent holds up next year tells us alot

I am sure this will change as I have day upon day to look at things.  Greatly appreciate the input here. 

 

[Going Commando]

Well this turned out to be a better OL class than expected.  The traits are unusually good in the top guys.  Much better arm length in this class than in most years.  Most of these guys may not be as polished, but their upside and position versatility is pretty good.

 

I think six offensive linemen have separated themselves as first round caliber guys:

 

1 - Andre Dillard - pulling away as the top tackle prospect

2 - Jawan Taylor - best guard prospect

3 - Jonah Williams - cleanest guard/tackle prospect.  There is basically no way this kid fails unless he gets hurt.

4 - Cody Ford - probably the best upside guy at tackle

5 - Chris Lindstrom - Phenomenal athlete with excellent film.  Probably the second best guard prospect after Taylor

6 - Dalton Risner - I think he sneaks into the back end of the first.  Film is better than his drill times.  Can play all five positions and that level of versatility is unmatched.

 

Bradbury has a chance at the first, but it hurts him that he's only an option at center.  He'd have a lot more draft value if he could play guard but he's got marginal size for that position.

 

Yodny Cajuste and Tytus Howard feel like the best developmental tackle prospects outside of the first round.  Both have outstanding traits for second day tackles.  One of them might be the guy for us in the second, or possibly even third round.

 

Greg Little is a bum.  Gives off pretty strong bust vibe.

 

Not a fan of Max Scharping either.  He looked clueless and stiff to me.

 

Kaleb McGary's arm length is disappointing given his size and the arm length of the other tackle prospects in the class.  Still, he's probably a lock to end up getting drafted by the Patriots early on day three and eventually being developed into a starter.

 

Elgton Jenkins had a good day.  I don't know, he doesn't really do it for me, but he's going to get picked on day two.

 

Michael Jordan and Erik McCoy are very interesting day 2 guard/center prospects too.  Excellent measurables.  Connor McGovern should be a day 2 interior guy as well.

 

If we miss out on Jordan/McCoy on day two, we could do worse than Derwin Gray or Drew Samia early on day three.  They feel like safe options with starter caliber upside.

 

Not really sure what Bobby Evans's NFL position is, but

 

Someone on the Wisconsin OL is going to make it as a starter, but not sure which one it will be.

 

Mitch Hyatt is going to sneak onto an NFL roster and stick around for a while.  I don't know if he has the athleticism to become a regular starter, but looks like quality depth at guard and tackle.

 

And I think Phil Haynes from Wake Forest also demonstrated he's a draftable project who you might be able to develop into a starting guard over time.  The natural power and size are there.  Same for Oli Udoh, who could be a sixth or seventh round lotto ticket.

[Going Commando]

1 - Kyler Murray

2 - Dwayne Haskins

3 - Drew Lock

4 - Daniel Jones

5 - Andre Dillard

6 - Jawan Taylor

7 - Jonah Williams

8 - Cody Ford

9 - Chris Lindstrom

10 - Dalton Risner

11 - TJ Hockenson

12 - DK Metcalf

13 - Josh Jacobs

 

I think those 13 are the first round offensive players and the other 19 picks will be defenders.

[Going Commando]

The RB workouts today weren't very good, but part of that is because Jacobs didn't work out and Bryce Love couldn't.  This also isn't a very starry crop.  The two best players at the position (IMO) are Montgomery and Harris--Arian Fosters who are never properly valued by NFL teams on draft day.   They're grinders who win with elite vision, patience, balance, and creativity, none of which gets measured at the combine.

 

Both of them ran about what you'd expect from watching their film.  I think Harris goes in the late second.  Montgomery's 40 was awful.  He was stiff throughout his drive and even looked off balance through the 10 yard split.  He's just not a good track athlete and the 40 was so slow that I think he's going to be there for us in the third round.  We have got to pick him.  It's Kareem Hunt all over again.  He is one of the best players in the class and I think he'll end up being the draft's biggest value selection.  It'll make me sick if we end up picking yet another third round project who takes three years to see the field and he ends up as the workhorse for someone like Kansas City.

 

I was a little disappointed to see that Darrell Henderson didn't run faster.  He flies on film.  He's a wheeling straight line runner who can't cut but he is an incredibly aggressive runner who can press the second level hard from shotgun runs and beat defenses to the edge.  His UCF film is outstanding.  Looks like an interesting fourth round option.

 

Singletary's 40 was god awful too.  He stood up immediately.  It was probably the worst 40 I saw from any of the backs that have a shot at getting drafted.  I don't know if the issue was that he didn't train adequately for the drill, or maybe the lightbulb just didn't come on for him with it.  But he can't run the 40 at all.  I also thought it looked like he gained some weight and lost some flexibility.  This event was a missed opportunity for him.  He could have elevated himself into an early second round range, but you can't be 5'7 and 200 and run that slow.  He's looking at day three.

 

Among the late round guys, I guess Trayveon Williams is the only one who really interests me.  He's little and the instincts aren't quite as good as you could hope for, but he's good.  He's worth drafting.

[Going Commando]

Some thoughts on the receiver weigh-ins:

 

- I was shocked that Arcega-Whiteside is only 6-2.  I thought he was 6-4.  His value is going to be lower than I thought.

 

- Marquise Brown is tiny.  He doesn't have an NFL body unfortunately.  Factor in his injury too and he might be out of the second round.  There is zero chance he will be taken in the first.  He's going to have a Chris Thompson-like career but when he's suited up, he'll be a real weapon.

 

- AJ Brown is a tank.  He's an Anquan Boldin.  I've been down on him this year, but if he actually runs well tomorrow, he could end up going a lot earlier than I expected.

 

- Hakeem Butler has the perfect frame for the position.  He's got longer arms and a longer wingspan than any of the tight ends.  There is so much talent there to work with.  If it weren't for the drops people would be way more excited about him.  It wouldn't shock me if he ends up being the best offensive skill position player from the class.  He's bigger and more fluid than Mike Williams was, and I think he's got a chance to sneak into the first round.

 

- Kelvin Harmon has a very short wingspan for his height.

 

- Andy Isabella is alligator-armed too plus he's short and doesn't have the size and strength to play on the line and get a release off press.  He'll be a day three pick.

 

- Metcalf's frame is awesome.  Second best in the class after Butler, and he's going to run a lot faster.  I did not realize that he was bigger than Arcega-Whiteside.  Good workouts tomorrow should solidify him as a top 16 pick.  He's almost as physically gifted as Calvin Johnson was.  Nobody did less with more this year than Ole Miss.

 

- Campbell and Harry check all of the boxes in terms of size.  Interested to see what they run and jump tomorrow.

 

- Hockenson's wingspan is a little disappointing for his height.  That's the one real negative I've seen on him thus far.  He's a first round lock though.

 

- Irv Smith lacks the desired size for the position and he has borderline length to play in line.  He's a bit of a poor man's Jordan Reed.  I think he'll go somewhere in the 80-100 range, much like Reed did.

 

- Fant, Moreau, and Knox all have the ideal frame for the position.  Fant and Knox can really makes themselves some money tomorrow.

 

- Wesco is the most interesting late round project at the position in this year's group.  Unique frame for the position that gives him very high upside as a blocker.  He could end up being the best blocker among the tight ends, but he'll need good coaches to get there.  Don't see a lot of upside as a receiver, but we want blockers at the position and he's a good project to take on for this purpose.

[Est.1974]

Cajuste was the OL prospect I seemed drawn to the most. I could actually see him being great value on day 2. My reservation being I'm not sure the selection helps us a lot in 2019, nor does it solve the LG hole anytime soon. Totally appreciate the BPA v need discussion. He may well be BPA. Think we need to somehow find a 2019 plug and play LG in the draft.

 

Re QB, we need to pray that Murray goes #1 to the Cards. My thought for a couple of weeks is that he will and that's nailed on. If he somehow doesn't, damn he's going to end up with the Giants. Please no.

[HigSkin]

Just another QB measurement FWIW

 

 

[skinsmania123]

21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

It's interesting that you say "hell of an arm" for Grier...that really underscores some of the borderline schizophrenic takes on him so far in this process. Some people say he has a weak arm, some say he has a really good arm. Personally, after watching his cutups, I think he has a good but not great arm. Certainly not at the level of a Lock or Josh Allen but certainly not a Pennington either. I think he'll pretty much have average arm strength for the NFL game. I don't think he'll have a problem making all the throws at the next level and there are more important things for a QB than having a howitzer. It's nice to have but there are plenty of other things that trump it IMO.

  I thought he had an excellent arm but then again I have never seen him in live action. Just the vids.  He seemed to make the throws and expects the receiver to be there which some QB's are not very good at, even in the NFL.  Good ball placement.  But again I am looking at videos on YouTube.  I do think he is a second rounder, as I said,  and I think he is going be okay in the league.  He is a great character guy too.  Married, family oriented and just super settled.  The lights, the stage is just not going to be too much for him IMO - it will not take him over.  Seems he can take it or leave it based on the interviews I watched with him.   We are not going to take him anyway so it does not matter. He is not glitzy enough for Snyder.  He is blue collar all the way. 

 

The FO is going to do what they always do.  They will, for whatever reason, with justification,  make the wrong trade or pick the wrong QB. It is just what they do unfortunately.  

 

I personally am probably in the minority here, but I would roll with Colt, and if he does not get hurt, he may do okay because he knows the system.  I would like to see him after a whole training camp with the number 1 team.  But he needs receivers.  That should really be their 3rd round focus.  The FA's are too expensive and we seem to take the injury prone players the last couple of years.  It is really so bizarre.  

[sempre_victrix]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I personally am probably in the minority here, but I would roll with Colt, and if he does not get hurt, he may do okay because he knows the system.  I would like to see him after a whole training camp with the number 1 team.  But he needs receivers.  That should really be their 3rd round focus.  The FA's are too expensive and we seem to take the injury prone players the last couple of years.  It is really so bizarre.  

 

Exactly,  Time to grab OL, receivers, and a safety.  Trade back if we can.  Now is not the time to reach and we are no where near close to anything. 

[skinsmania123]

10 minutes ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

Exactly,  Time to grab OL, receivers, and a safety.  Trade back if we can.  Now is not the time to reach and we are no where near close to anything. 

Yeah it seems the OL candidates are better then I thought.  @stevemcqueen1 did a great break down. If we could snag Ford in our 1st round pick, or Andre Dilliard that would be awesome.  OR I would take a CB like Williams (who I do not think will be available), and if he is off the board, a safety, like Thompson.  Our secondary is the epitome of mediocrity but I said that last year a well.  We are desperate for help there.   I am not looking at the receiver position until the 3rd.   And hopefully they do not screw it up.  Looking at those completion percentages, which the Kap lovers never do, Rypien looks like a good acquisition in the 3rd round doesn't he?    And I think we have a comp pick there for Cousin's.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Besides the Brown talk, a splash draft related would be trading up to #1.  They want attention -- if they do that and go get Murray it would feel like 2012 all over again but would some cynicism about it this time from the fan base.  Question would be though would the Cards be willing to do it.  If they are giving up draft picks which I am not wild about it, I'd rather do it for Kyler than Brown.

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

^^ God, I hope Finlay is wrong.  

 

My overriding issue with the Skins is that they're so afraid to blow it up and build it the right way.  They always are trying to sell the fans that this is gonna be a good year, we got a bright new shiny toy. 

 

Trade back, horde picks.  It's not sexy, but it's what's needed.  This team is 52 players away from a championship.  If we actually move up in the draft I will go ballistic.

[PlayAction]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Well this turned out to be a better OL class than expected.  The traits are unusually good in the top guys.  

4 - Cody Ford - probably the best upside guy at tackle

 

Am I looking at the same guy?  He's built like a tank but he seemed slow to me in his drills - he was dragging his feet while moving laterally.  Based solely upon his movement I pegged him as a Guard only.  If he's asked to block in a phone booth sized area I think he will be awesome.  But, I would hate to see him on screens or any more athletic plays.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

One of my favorite players in the draft. I think he would really help bolster our defense and I would be thrilled with this pick.

[PlayAction]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Wouldn't it be nice if all of the talking heads stop assuming the Skins will do stupid moves just for the splash?  I think the Skins are past that now.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if all of the talking heads stop assuming the Skins will do stupid moves just for the splash?  I think the Skins are past that now.  

 

Adam Schefter has a rep for being the best in the business and is really careful when he throws a report out there, normally uses multiple sources.  So if he's saying they are in on Antonio Brown.  That's unlikely a mere assumption or speculation -- he's flat out saying they are in.  As for the Murray part from Keim who knows, that feels more like speculation.  As for whether they are doing it specifically for a splash -- who knows the motivation.  I bet every move whether it looks splashy or not they think will better the team.  Whether they are right or wrong on that front is a different discussion.  Also poking around and actually making a deal or two different things.  But if its Schefter there is usually some fire to the smoke. But will see.  

 

Edit:  just listened to Hoffman he thinks no way it happens because Brown wants more money-renegotiate his contract.  That's fine with me -- skip Brown.  If they do anything crazy aggressive I'd rather it be Murray related.  If they do things my way, I'd stick to what they have and at most trade up for a little at worst versus trading up for a lot. 

[Skin'emAlive]

The skins are NOT 52 players away from contention. We were ravaged by injuries last year and were still a game away from playoffs. The foundation is solid on the lines, and the coach is well respected. You could do much worse. 

 

The skins could revamp the offense this offseason: 

 

#15: DK Metcalf

#27: trade up with Oakland ( 2nd round #14 + a pick this year) and select Will Grier 

Trade next year’s 1st for Antonio Brown

3rd round bpa guard

3rd conditional trade down for a 4th and extra picks and use the 4th rounder on Moreau 

 

Go into the season with a wr core of Brown, Metcalf, Reed, Quinn, Doctson. With our starting rb back in the fold and AP and Chris Thompson in the backfield, Grier will have a tremendous cast to start with.